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Boris Yeltsin dead

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Bondings
BBC News wrote:
Boris Yeltsin, who oversaw the Soviet Union's demise and became Russia's first president, has died aged 76, the Kremlin says.

As the first elected Russian president, I guess that makes him one of the most important people of the 20th century.

I'll never forget this video that finally proved that Russia and the USA wouldn't nuke the world into oblivion, after all.
ctrlTR
He was so cheerful , who could make laugh Bill Clinton as much as like in this video.
palavra
Quote:
After the intital campaign of 1994-1995, culminating in the devastating Battle of Grozny, Russian federal forces attempted to control the mountainous area of Chechnya but were set back by Chechen guerrilla warfare and raids on the flatlands (including mass hostage takings beyond Chechnya) in spite of Russia's overwhelming manpower, weaponry, and air support. The resulting widespread demoralization of federal forces, and the almost universal opposition of the Russian public to the brutal conflict, led the government Boris Yeltsin to declare a ceasefire in 1996 and sign a peace treaty a year later.

The war was a humiliating defeat for Russia as well as a disaster for Chechnya. By one conservative estimate there were 7,500 Russian military, 4,000 Chechen combatant, and more than 35,000 civilian deaths.[2] Other estimates put the number of casualties between 80,000 to 100,000 killed. More than 500,000 persons were displaced by the conflict. [1] Cities and villages were left in ruins.

he was a drunk ,corrupted politician.
he is personally responsible for this war.
the best thing he did for russia to assign Putin.
smarter
palavra wrote:
he was a drunk ,corrupted politician.
he is personally responsible for this war.
the best thing he did for russia to assign Putin.


Yes, he was fond of vodka. But he was THE ONE who in August 1991 caused the demise of the communist hardliners and in December 1991 the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of capitalist Russia (wild west style, though.)

He was indeed a reformer, a promoter for peaceful cooperation with the West. All Western leaders who knew him have something good to say about him.

His biggest mistake: naming Putin (ex-KGB chief) as his successor. Putin only tensioned again the NATO-Russia relations.
palavra
smarter wrote:
[
His biggest mistake: naming Putin (ex-KGB chief) as his successor. Putin only tensioned again the NATO-Russia relations.


for russia
think about the difference of russia in boris time
and
putin's time.
Bondings
palavra wrote:
smarter wrote:
[
His biggest mistake: naming Putin (ex-KGB chief) as his successor. Putin only tensioned again the NATO-Russia relations.


for russia
think about the difference of russia in boris time
and
putin's time.

The normal people aren't better of, by my knowledge. The wealth that Russia acquired is now mostly in the hands of a small group of billionaires. And Putin isn't good for the democracy in Russia.

I completely agree about Chechnya, though.
ctrlTR
I cannot compare with Boris and Putin , because i know nothing about Putin,i am so little to know it.But as i learn and know,Russia is living its golden age that is not seen so far by Boris's works. Is that true ?

palavra wrote:
smarter wrote:
[
His biggest mistake: naming Putin (ex-KGB chief) as his successor. Putin only tensioned again the NATO-Russia relations.


for russia
think about the difference of russia in boris time
and
putin's time.
Moonspider
palavra wrote:
smarter wrote:
[
His biggest mistake: naming Putin (ex-KGB chief) as his successor. Putin only tensioned again the NATO-Russia relations.


for russia
think about the difference of russia in boris time
and
putin's time.


One could say the same thing about Germany and Hitler in 1936.

I don't trust Putin. He seems to be rolling back a lot of the democratic reforms of the '90s.

Respectfully,
M
inphurno
whatever you want to say about yeltsin, the fact is that he sold russia. then the oligarchs who bought everything essentially recreated a communist style control of the economy. the oligarchs helped yeltsin (and now putin) and vise versa.

Quote:
Privatization and the rise of "the oligarchs". Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Yeltsin promoted privatization as a way of spreading ownership of shares in former state enterprises as widely as possible to create political support for his economic reforms. However, the deals were effectively giveaways of valuable state assets to a small group of tycoons in finance, industry, energy, telecommunications, and the media who came to be known as the "Russian oligarchs" in the mid-1990s. By summer 1996, substantial ownership shares over major firms were acquired at very low prices by the "oligarchs." Boris Berezovsky, who controlled major stakes in several banks and the national media, emerged as one of Yeltsin's most prominent backers. Along with Berezovsky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Roman Abramovich, Vladimir Potanin, Vladimir Bogdanov, Rem Viakhirev, Vagit Alekperov, Viktor Chernomyrdin, Victor Vekselberg, and Mikhail Fridman emerged as Russia's most powerful and prominent oligarchs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin#Privatization_and_the_rise_of_.22the_oligarchs.22

Last edited by inphurno on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
palavra
Moonspider wrote:
I don't trust Putin. He seems to be rolling back a lot of the democratic reforms of the '90s.

Respectfully,
M


Russia is still a democrasy and putin will leave his post.

-in usa, majority of senate asks a program to leave Iraq but bush is threatining with veto.(like hitler he does not care about senate)
is it democracy?
inphurno
obviously not whats worse is this is his third straight veto, making it really clear that not only is he warmonger (not him but the people that make decisions for him) he doesnt respect the american people's wishes nor does he respect at all american soldiers when he forces them to do extended tours

Last edited by inphurno on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Moonspider
palavra wrote:
Moonspider wrote:
I don't trust Putin. He seems to be rolling back a lot of the democratic reforms of the '90s.

Respectfully,
M


Russia is still a democrasy and putin will leave his post.

-in usa, majority of senate asks a program to leave Iraq but bush is threatining with veto.(like hitler he does not care about senate)
is it democracy?


The U.S. constitution provides for a separation of powers: a judicial (represented by the Supreme Court), the Legislative (represented by the House of Representatives and the Senate), and the Executive (represented by the President). These three entities co-rule the United States, none having more power than the other technically but each having separate powers exclusive to them. For example, the Legislative can write bills, whereas the other two cannot. Only the President has the power to sign these bills into law (although a 2/3 majority in the legislative branch can override a veto). Only the Judicial branch has the power to interpret laws and judge their constitutionality.

I disagree with the current actions of the House and Senate in that they are weakening the power of the Presidency. Presidents cannot legally start wars, only the legislative branch has the power to start wars (including the current Iraq War, which they did). However, Presidents do serve as the Commander and Chief, therefore they are responsible for conducting wars. IMO the House and Senate are attempting to do something that is exclusive to the office of the President.

The United States government is always going through these power struggles, though. It is how the government is designed to work.

As for your argument, the president is not required to do whatever the majority in the House and Senate desire. If so, what would be the purpose of the position?

Remember, the United States is not a pure democracy. It is a republic.

Everything that is happening currently with the Iraq funding bill is in perfect accordance with the U.S. constitution. The president will veto it, as is his legal right. The House and Senate do not have the 2/3 majority to override the veto. Therefore, the bill will go back into negotiations. Compromises will be made on both sides. A revised bill will be sent to the President and he will sign it.

Respectfully,
M
Bondings
palavra wrote:
Moonspider wrote:
I don't trust Putin. He seems to be rolling back a lot of the democratic reforms of the '90s.

Respectfully,
M


Russia is still a democrasy and putin will leave his post.

A lot of people think that Putin won't leave his post and instead change the constitution making it possible for him to run again. And even if that doesn't happen, he will be the one deciding who will be the next president as most people will vote for the person he chooses (as he controls the media and makes real opposition impossible).
Rengidar
First, it would be really ******-up if this discussion - about the death of one of the most important politicians of recent history - will, again(!!!) turn out to be a discussion about Bush, war in Iraq, and, all in all, politics of America. Please don't do that to me.

Back on topic. I think no one can deny that Boris Yeltsin was the man who changed Soviet Union's Communist regime into Russian Federation's Democracy. Russia still has it flaws but it was Yeltsin who stopped it from sinking deeper and deeper into Communism. Yeltsin made many reforms to make Russia Democratic country.

About war in Chechnya - well, it was his decision. It was terrible and he probably shouldn't have done it but still - there were revolts in the teritorry of country he ruled - he had to act. He had all rights to do so.

Putin - that's a different question. Putin was the most dreadful thing Yeltsin did. Putin is terrible, in my humble opinion. He concentrates power in his own hands, tries to make former Soviet Union republics his puppet states (Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, you name it). He manipulates with Europe and whole world using Gazprom - the giant gas distributor. In Yeltsin's time if you had a big company drilling for oil or gas you could think badly of government. Well, not anymore - remember Yukos? Even if he leaves in 2008 he will make sure to leave somebody as bad as him in the post of President. Russia is heading towards Totalitarism again, I am afraid.

And yes, Boris Yeltsin had this drinking problem - but a lot of people in Russia does. I don't think you should judge him about that - it didn't affect his decisions, I reckon.[/b]
Arseniy
Ah, poor guy=)
He always maked me laugh when doing blablabla on TV or newspaper or radio. He had so great voice... Putin will never repeat his success=)
But he was bad president - I know it right, because my granny knew it=)
Oh, funny story about "my granny said": when I was 5 (it was in 1998) some friends of my mother asked me what profession I want to get. I said "Alcoholic". They were shocked and asked "Why? It's so bad!". And I answered:"Because alcoholics are always become presidents". Laughing
palavra
Arseniy wrote:
Ah, poor guy=)
He always maked me laugh when doing blablabla on TV or newspaper or radio. He had so great voice... Putin will never repeat his success=)
But he was bad president - I know it right, because my granny knew it=)
Oh, funny story about "my granny said": when I was 5 (it was in 1998) some friends of my mother asked me what profession I want to get. I said "Alcoholic". They were shocked and asked "Why? It's so bad!". And I answered:"Because alcoholics are always become presidents". Laughing

i hope you are not a president now. Smile
palavra
Rengidar wrote:
About war in Chechnya - well, it was his decision. It was terrible and he probably shouldn't have done it but still - there were revolts in the teritorry of country he ruled - he had to act. He had all rights to do so.

i think Chechnya people also has a right to revolt.

Quote:
He manipulates with Europe and whole world using Gazprom - the giant gas distributor.
if he has the gas , he also has every right to manipulate whoever he wants. Europen countries want to control gas sources as they did petrol in Arab world. Idea ]
if Europe needs gas without russia they should install a pipeline from Turkmenistan to Europe
Arseniy
palavra wrote:
i hope you are not a president now.

Thanks god, no=)
palavra wrote:
if he has the gas , he also has every right to manipulate whoever he wants. Europen countries want to control gas sources as they did petrol in Arab world.

Dude, he (you mean Russia, yes?) has gas. And Russia has gas, because we (Ukrainians) stole it last year, don't you remember?=)) But Russia doesn't control Ukraine, Ukraine is the "bufer" zone between EU and Russia with its henchmen.
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