I know the some people will believe this to be placed in the wrong area, but when speaking of the relations between demographics, that counts as, well, relationships.
I've been challenged by a friend to support evidence for the claim that Caucasians are currently the most discriminated demographic. Not only can it be supported by observation, such as with college acceptance, affirmative action programs, etc., but there have been studies done showing that Caucasians receive less ethical treatment from owners of businesses, etc., who belong to another demographic.
However, I can't find any, as I've always been inept with search engines and specifying parameters.
Could someone out there help me find something on this? My friend is a hard-headed fool who wants concrete evidence before he changes his opinion or the like. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
oh yeah. i'm caucasian and got to a school with only 8% caucasians (in the united states). the rest are hispanic and black pretty much. there's a few asians... and i always get racial stuff from people who then call us racists. i hate it.
Maybe as an individual, you may feel that you're racially discriminated as a caucasian, but as a group, you really aren't... The majority of political leaders are white; don't worry, you guys are still in control. For example:
This is published by the AMCAS (for medical school admissions).
Applicants, by ethnicity/race: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2003to2006det.htm.
Matriculants, by ethnicity/race: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2003to2006detmat.htm.
Looking at the data for 2006, the percent acceptances for whites is ~46.5%, blacks: ~39.5%, asians: ~43.0%. The acceptance rate for whites is significantly higher than other groups. Before you go into the "well, maybe whites have better scores", keep in mind that statisitically speaking, minority doctors are more likely to treat their own ethnic groups better than someone who's not in their ethnic group. Therefore, it is better for society to keep those percentage scores as evenly distributed as possible.
Seriously, being in the majority isn't such a bad thing. Quit whining.
^^ That's true in some respects, but some people use their race as an excuse, if you will...
For instance, if a certain request is declined purely because of policy, they will begin to argue that they are being discriminated against.
I am part of a very small minority in my country, so small in fact that my race is not listed on the Census. I'm North African and I live in the UK. But I hate it when people use the fact that they are a minority in the wrong way. It's not fair on anyone.
Loryl, learn how to post links, neither was active/usable.
And I don't mean that caucasians are 'losing power'; I'm not a damned white supremacist.
I'm referring to the fact, as said, that ohter races use that to gain what they want. And if we say something about it, we're "racist".
The racist cry is mostly brought up against whites. Very few others are accused of this charge.
^^ Yes, I agree completely.
I'm not white, but I agree.
As a Caucasian, I am ineligble for certain scholarships based on the color of my skin. It's also possible, although improbable, that I could lose a spot in a school to someone with lower test scores just because they have to meet a quota. That's discrimination. Now, privately endowed scholarships have a right to give money to whomever they wish--I don't dispute that--but it is in fact discrimination, no matter how well-intentioned. The only problem is that with these programs, some minorities (and others for that matter) may get the message that minorities can't make it unless they have help.
I don't know if there is any more discrimination against whites, in fact I think there's almost definitely less, but what is troubling is that the so-called "reverse" discrimination is that it is institutionalized. We won't really be able to move on as a society until we are able to understand that underneath our skin tones and cultural differences, we are all the same.
Most discriminated against? I doubt that, frankly, but certainly it does happen. I've not had any severe problems, except for a touch of isolation based purely on linguistic barriers. I have however known problems for friends of mine, and my girlfriend too, who're of different races. It doesn't even have to be something severe, even just a dirty glance is disheartening, and can ruin a good mood.
I met a man in the pub a while back, and in a conversational lull, he suddenly and without provocation said 'You know what, if this country ever gets a black leader, I'm emigrating'. I sat in stunned silence for a few seconds, said 'Good.', and walked away.
I've never come across anyone saying that about a white leader.
|Loryl, learn how to post links, neither was active/usable. |
Oops, I didn't post links (as in using the URL tag), I just copy/pasted text onto what I was writing. Uh... it should be fairly obvious, but if you haven't gotten it yet, just take off the periods at the end and the links should be valid.
Saying that there is racism against whites in the education sector works until you figure out that all the racism was put there by OTHER whites in an attempt to appease the minority population. The US minority population didn't do anything, YOU did. So next time, how about you give a more intelligent argument than "OMG YOUR LINKS DIDN'T WORK LOLZ AT YOU BECAUSE YOU CAN'T POST LINKS".
You'll either learn this in the real world later anyways: TEST SCORES DON'T MEAN ANYTHING. You scored a 2400/2400 on the SATs (or 1600 by the old scale)? Good for you. Does that mean you're creative? -No. Does that mean you have the common sense and maturity to handle the stresses of the real world? -No. The only thing a test score measures is how well you take the test.
Minorities are more likely to have grown up in an impoverished household. They might have attended some of the crappiest schools in their area. Given their much more disadvantaged background, who's to say that someone who scores a few points lower than you isn't as smart, or smarter than you? It's not a quota they're fulfilling. Some organizations actually use multiple factors when determining the most qualified candidates.
There are tons of scholarships out there and most don't care if your skin color is white, black, green, or purple. Go look for those and quit whining.
Loryl, you are horrible at the art of argument. Your reaciton to my statement of you posting invalid links was completely uncharacteristic and undue.
In any event, doesn't it seem awfully unjust for 'affirmative action' to be taken for those who also try to use the color of their skin for gain? If they ask for equality in one respect, then why not every respect? Color really doesn't matter anymore...in most places, at the very least, in the U.S., enough affirmative action has taken place to compeltely ruin any real chance of a racist or race-specific swell. Therefore, it seems awfully unrealistic to say that the majority race is the one with the highest statistical chance of a good education, welfare prog., etc. After all, if a college can only accept a certain number of the majority and fill in more than half of it's class with minorities, that's very unrealistic of the population.
That defeats the purpose of high-level colleges, doesn't it? That seems as if the chances for a good education aren't really fair or distributed...after all, an asian student is just as likely to be unfit for a scholarship as a caucasian student...but if scholarships dictate that onyl X number of caucasians be allowed, that means that the less-fit asian just took the spot of a more derserving student.
Also, Loryl, you which I must heavily restrain my fingers from typing expletives with your username, your pages/links are USELESS. They show the number of applicants and the number of those who passed. Not only have you shown us that you sit around and number crunch in your spare time, but you've also managed to contradict yourself.
At one point, you say that you disagree with me, at another, you prove my point. You admit that affirmative action is taken, then SHWO us that STILL more causasians were accepted (precentage-wise)...that means that WITH affirmative action, they are still accepted...I don't really understand how you expect to make a solid point about anything when you flit from one thing to another with little cohesion. Make one point before you try to prove another or create another.
I think that the only one who can help you is yourself.You should face them and show him that he can`t control you and you will do whatever you want...
well I am mixed race and had a interesting life in terms of growing up and getting prespectives of race and racism, I grew up in London then South Africa during the "error" of apartheid and also lived in portugal, italy france and Holland as well as Zambia for a few years then back to Europe and now in scandinavia.
in terms of descrimination against blacks in jobs etc etc it certainly is still very rife, and descrimination against whites also exists, how ever when chalenging affirmative action policies and quota's I have learned that it is very hard growing up as a minoriy or even as an underpriviledged majority "as was the case in South africa", and having a controlled qouta does aid some of these underprivileged groups to excelle academically and its just the beginning of a new chapter in history and we are all living history in the making and when I say history I dont mean a historic take over by one race against the other its the grey area in life where society is attempting to change perseptions both black and white and the middle man like myself and we all have to go through these teething problems we are experiencing now for what is yet to come, and it will take many more such quotas before things even out and people from all races have calmed that historic fire that is burning.
to the unfortunate white kid that did not get the scholarchip and feels victimised, you sort of are a victim and thats sort of the unfair price of this big change,
To the poor black guy who gets the sponsorourship and has to deal with all sorts of other attacks from his community and chalenges from his background, you are also a victim you are showing your fellow community members by example and maybe become a role modle to help others
but all in all everybody is having a hard time during these global changes and the main thing is to try to understand we dont know the future but we do know the past and based on that we appear to be moving in the right direction.
its just my opion I am speaking from a point of view of a person that has been descriminated against from both white and Black on equal waiting but never got bitter about it.
Yesterday, triggered by an episode of some TV series dealing with Affirmative Action my son was watching, we got into a lively discussion of racism in general, and programs attempting some sort of restitution in particular.
Of course we quickly agreed on some obvious facts, such as racism still being very much present in any number of areas, disadvantaging persons ...
- ... not only by the discriminations they need to deal with today, but also ...
- ... with historic racism on a much grander scale, which have left minorities making up a disproportionately high percentage of the poor, uneducated and socially underprivileged.
One argument which we did dwell on was similar to what quite a few have also posted here, namely: Is there not an element of reverse discrimination in programs such as Affirmative Action since it potentially punishes those members of a majority who might loose their place at a college or be passed over at a job application, although they personally, individually, certainly are not racist and much to young to be in any way responsible for historic racism.
Living here in Germany, one often hears a similar argument from all those who were born long after the Holocaust and find it difficult to accept responsibility for something they played no part in and argue that concepts such as collective guilt are invalid.
I've given this a bit of thought in the past and, for a number of reasons, I believe this argument to be, although understandable, invalid. If a person shows some pride in his or her culture, language, art and literature, way of life, form of government or even the flag, then this person is more than acknowledging his history, his provenance, his ancestry: he or she is claiming values that were created before his/her time. If a German says he is comes from a "country of philosophers" or an American sees himself as a citizen of "the land of the free", then he is taking credit for values which he only deserves if he manages to live up to these. But history is not a mail-order catalog. One cannot simply pick those items which one identifies with, and leave the others on the shelf. If one is proud of what one's own society, nation or culture has achieved, then the opposite must also be true for the less pleasant history. It doesn't matter if one calls it guilt, or shame, or debt, or responsability, but it should be as present in one's mind as the pride or patriotism one feels. I don't in any way believe in collective guilt, but if one chooses a collective then one will have to take the whole package: pride, guilt and responsability.
|Afaceinthematrix wrote: |
|oh yeah. i'm caucasian and got to a school with only 8% caucasians (in the united states). the rest are hispanic and black pretty much. there's a few asians... and i always get racial stuff from people who then call us racists. i hate it. |
I'm not sure at which school you were but I'll tell you one thing...Caucasians are not victims of any racial actions mate, believe me. You still control the world man. Have a look at all positions od leadership, at government, governmental agencies, financial institutions, rich people, education and research institutions... Everything that's elite and leads to power and control of the nation, and to money is well guarder in good hands, and entering it is almost impossible if you're not Caucasian. In this case of course there many of non-Caucasians at the bottom of society, so if you're there too, you may get the impression that you are part of the minority and being discriminated.... for a job in a restaurant or a a small accountant, or a job as a strategic investment consultant? ...believe me in such jobs you don't see many non-Caucasians, since they are discriminated from birth on... this is truth man, and it's sad.
You can find out more from Ward Connerly's books. Ward Connerly is an African-American author and activist. He is a registered Republican with libertarian views. He believes that any sort of "Racial Preferences" are essentially discriminatory or racist.
It depends on your definition on racism. If you are caucasian, and you want to date a Latinoamerican woman, it's probably that her family judge you in part because of your race. It's common to have prejudice about people you aren't familiar to, until you meet them and find out they aren't much different like you.
I think racial groups aren't prone to mix themselves with others, it's not about discrimination, it's about looking for familar things, known things.
And about caucasian loosing power in politics.... let's time run... there'll be a time when hispanic inmigrants (and their descendants) will become the strongest politic force in USA. It's a matter of time, give it 40 years and see. I think it's pretty normal, USA has been a country of inmigrants since its begining.
To start with I dont think whites/caucasian need to worry about segregation or preferences as far as scholarships go. The thing is its been generations of undistributed wealth and in an attempt to kinda correct it it, we as a civilized society attempt to creat opertunities eg know as affirmative action.
In each and every country where Affirmative action is activated, the X opressor panics its just a known fact, e.g. UK, USA and South Africa. In fairness how else do we solve a global or Nationwide issue with a perfect and accurate solution, taking for example how and who knows the absolutely correct formular for % acceptance into a university which when ploted on a graph would 100% make 100 of years of oppression fair at which time and date, its close near imposible and if you come up with the formular then please dont just post it here send it to te UN or some other huge organisation.
Another issue, if you really think about it on a majority scale compare yourself to the Black Kid who gets the sponsorship, look at social dynamics educational background facilities for learning and expanding at whom the residantial aree you live in and he lives in, I must be clear I am speaking on a general scope so even if you a poor white guy just step back from your povty and try to view this from a generic context not just your case, then parallel that with how and what would you do to set thinggs right.
Hope this helps cheers
By the way ill change the subcjet, did you know that around 140 people from Germany have been arrested in Austria for racial discrimination ? They were yelling some things about second world war to Polish fans. Thats sad but true, i think for many, many years there would be Germans discrimination on the Polish side and Polish discrimination on Germans side. I know being a team fan makes you sometimes angry against opponent but whats going on ? Thats just a sport and let the history be behind us. I cant understand why so many people hate others because something in past. We shouldnt forget history but also we shouldnt be part of it !!
It happens....and it's not to rare actually. Once when I was younger, I applied for a job as a sportswriter at a paper. I played sports in college (basketball) and high school (football and basketball) and I had a BA in journalism. I also had experience, and actually gave them a clip file of my work writing for previous papers and magazines. I found out later, that the person in charge had been told they needed to hire a woman or different race for the position, the only problem was....they couldn't get a minority to apply! Meanwhile, they had a qualified applicant (me) waiting.....they wanted to hire me, but needed to wait and put out another ad because they were not supposed to hire a white guy for this spot. This went on for a couple months. Finally, they offered me the job as they could not get a minority to apply. I politely turned down their 'offer'.
It is also hard, for a white guy from a poor background to look at this objectively. People say things like "well, as a whole, whites are doing well...". That doesn't help the poor white guy though. And for all the projects and slums that some grew up in.....my family lived in a TENT in ALASKA!! We may not have had drive by shootings, but we had 'walk by' grizzly bears....which are just as dangerous! So when I went to college, my parents couldn't afford to pay for any of it, I couldn't get scholarships (despite being on the Dean's list) because the school I went to had scholarships for women and minorities in my field, but literally nothing for me. So I worked at a fish cannery in the summers to pay for school.....working 22 hours a day, 7 days a week. But, it all turned out ok, that type of work, made me determined to finish school and not be stuck doing that work the rest of my life. I finished school although it took me 8 years or so, as I had to keep leaving to work full time to make money to pay form my tuition and such. But I finished, and started my own business and it's all good now. But, I am just saying, that many people sometimes forget about the very poor white people, because there are many successful whites. I personally think that many of the things designed to help the 'underprivileged' should not be based on race or minority status, but on income instead. That would truly help more of the underprivileged...but of course this is just my opinion, which is of course affected by my life experiences.
We all have to live with stereotypes and discrimination.
There are many types of discrimination that are no recognized, even mocked. Ageism, Discrimination against those who are overweight, those who are shy, those who are ugly, etc.
What is sad is how the government highlights the discrimination that is directed towards a few, while ignores other forms of discrimination. Yes, white people are sometimes discriminated against. Acknowleding this should not in any way lessen the fact that those who are visible minorities are discriminated against.
I found that in every environment I have been in, every in fast food restuarants, its ALWAYS a caucasion person who is at the top of the hierarchy chart. Every job I've had, the boss has been white. I also found that we tend to favor those who are in our same demographic circle not only regarding race, but for instance: neighborhood, age, culture, music type, common interests, etc. i cant see how a majority group can possibly be discriminated against by a minority group when you have all of the leadership positions. *smh*
Come to south africa and you wil see racism in full action. The government forced and cheated some laws in that are fundamentally racist! Im a white law student here and i when i applied for bursaries most of them rejected me cause im not black enough that was their official reason! And here if you want to get a job by most companies they say sorry you are white and we want blacks only, bye bye whitey. And when i went for my drivers licence i would be failed by the black instructors and then government investigated and discovered that i was done in... Along with 12 other whites but the black al passed even when the one stalled twice and rolled twice! To be honest i had many black friends in high school they were really nice we always played cards Lol. But its the few that are in positions of power that are rude and mean and do everything to not be helpful. We were being robbed blind and the police (al black) refused point blank to help us so my dad said he found a dead black and they were there with in 5 minutes but that was jus to get them to try and help us which they never did, we finally caught the guy who was robbing us and they again refused to fetch him so my dad had to take the guy to the cops himself! This is jus my thoughts and experiences.
In the United States I'd get hung by someone for saying this, but caucasians are the most discriminated. It's not particularly through their actions. Rather, its through caucasian history.