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Legalize Downloading Movies and Music for certain Groups





Billwaa
I think that movie and music downloading from the internet should be legal for certain group for people. For teen.

my reasoning is that...

First, why do people download music and video instead of buying them? The reasons are that:

-its easier to get it from internet
-you don't have to pay $$

now, what group of people mostly going to download because of that 2 reasons?

-Teenagers, because not all of them have $$ income. Nor they have cars to go out and buy. And they are more familar with the new technology of internet. You might argue that they could get a job then use those movie rental serive online.

Well if they get a job, then they have less time for school and out of school activity such as Orchestra, Band. Sport, Art class... which kind of hurt them in the future. Because if they try to learn those in the future, it will be way harder. Since the US so care about teen education, shouldn't they make it so that they have more time for education? Instead of using it for work?

So, it should be legal for teen to download stuffs.

Now for adult..

Come on, adult have income (or else they wouldn't have internet high-speed enough to download movies). Since they have income, and most likely have a car. For adult, it should be 100% ilegal to download movies and music without paying for it. It make senses too, right?

You might think that, couldn't the teen ask their parent for $$ for movie? well, I think most parent don't want to pay for the music or video of their kids. Since the parents can't really enjoy them. I mean, the generation gap between them is too great.


So what do you think? Don't just say you think it should be legal for teen because you are a teen. Really, they not going to even consider passing a law like this if you don't provide good reasons. Even though, I really doubt this going to happen anyway, lol.
Vrythramax
Your suggestion is impractical for many reasons, first off how would you identify your age over the internet? What would stop adults from posing as a teen to download free items? Online predators are doing that every day.

Then there is the issue of why should adults have to pay simply because they may (or may not) have jobs? What of disabled adults who cannot work and are forced to live on a fixed income and cannot go to the movies anyway?

This is not even taking into consideration the applicable Copyright and Distribution rights which may easily be violated. Not everyone on the Internet is an honest person.

Your post had merit, but your plan was flawed. Do what I do, wait till it (the movie) comes out on cable, or buy the DVD....the DVD would be cheaper than going to the movies anyway, plus you can watch the movie again at your leisure.
darrenpaul
I very much agree. Who watches and listens to movies and music most? Teenagers! Start making it free for this group, the people in charge lose ALOT of money.
Q5U8
Mh, I don't share this feeling because everybody knows what is the price (and the cost) of his/her job.

So, if you think that you have a Ferrari, you are free to put a price of a Ferrari. Otherwise, if you say: well, this is not a masterpiece, but, the cost of fabrication was high, you must to ask a high price for it.

This also applies to services or art. Maybe you can make a paint, like Picasso or Dalí does, and you can ask the money that you think your work is paid. Now go with the movies or the videos. They, the artists or the producers can set the price, because is their work, and they know what to have to pay to people to make merchandising campaigns, pay the artists and the musicians that play the music to make a song or a complete album.

Now, let's turn the table. Internet came to be here forever. Too many entrepreneur people is getting advantage of this to change their schemes of merchandise, lowering costs and having wider distributions of their products. Music and Video Producers, insted of take chance of it, reduce costs and go in partnership with p2p makers, their are fighting with programmers and clients (people that like the music and download without pay from Internet with p2p sharing and other techniques).

This approach is WRONG. Because you can't fight to your client. The client is the person that can help you to grow. The Music and Video producers are making a bad move. While is true they have to put a price to their work, they also must to have the responsability of check their costs, and cut them. They also have the chance of take advantage of Internet technology to get cheaper ways to distribute music. What happening if, insted of loose for, let's say, 1'000,000 of downloads of John Lennon Yesterday song, they just ask half dollar for download it?

They have in their pocket half million dollar. This is the approach that the Music and Video Producers must to consider in order to make new business. Not only to downsize prices for a related segment of people. Very Happy
Agent ME
That's like saying cars should be free to kids because kids can't afford cars.


I think easier online payment systems are needed in more places - anyone else ever see Microsoft's 'Points' system? You sign into a Windows Live Account, and you can either cash-in prepaid cards (that you can buy at a lot of stores) or use a credit card to buy a certain amount of points, and then you can spend those points on anything where you can sign into the Windows Live Account. You can use it on the Zune marketplace for music, or on an xbox 360 for videos or movie 'rentals', or on premium content (like new levels for a game).
HDirtwater
You're right. Teenagers don't have any money and adults always do. Rolling Eyes Of course, teenagers live for free, eat for free, don't work to support themselves. Most teenagers (not all, and no offense intended here) feel as though they're entitled to have things that adults work very hard for, like movies, music, entertainment, cars, electronics, etc. It burns me to think that I work my azz off to pay my bills, while kids walk around with cell phones, pagers, ipods, and xbox's. These things should be earned. Watching movies and listening to music are privelages, not rights.
Jaan
It depends. Some people do it because their parents do not let them listen to music, or certain types of their music. So they wouldn't be able to buy it in the first place (iTunes, they would have to get parents' cc).

By some groups, I thought you meant social groups not age groups. I believe poor people should have access to internet and all things that come with it.

Music wise, we should all be able to enjoy our music, and I find it is easier to appreciate the music with an actual album, and to listen to it alone, with no multitasking. mp3s allow you to be more flexible and unfocused on the music. If you go out and buy the single you really are able to appreciate it. That's how a collection should grow. Not these extremely large mp3 libraries of over 5000 tunes.

For example DJ's, how could they lug around 5000 vinyls? They would just have to take the time and pick the favourites.

I hope you see my point, however muddy it is.
Billwaa
HDirtwater wrote:
You're right. Teenagers don't have any money and adults always do. Rolling Eyes Of course, teenagers live for free, eat for free, don't work to support themselves. Most teenagers (not all, and no offense intended here) feel as though they're entitled to have things that adults work very hard for, like movies, music, entertainment, cars, electronics, etc. It burns me to think that I work my azz off to pay my bills, while kids walk around with cell phones, pagers, ipods, and xbox's. These things should be earned. Watching movies and listening to music are privelages, not rights.


well, I guess you are right, these entertainment stuffs should be earn. How about a government supporting program for teensw ho do good in their school work? Should they earn the entertainment by working hard in school?

You might think that study hard is for one self's good, however, if you really think about it, the future is run by today's teenagers, they working hard in school is basically harding hard to make future a better place... so shouldn't they get repay by having free access to entertainment?

Another point, couldn't music and videos be part of education? By watching videos and listening to music, teens think and create, not saying that adult couldn't do the same, but adult often have no imagination because they learn too much about reality and know that something is never going to happen... That's mean in the future, our teens create better music and better movies... which is good for society, shouldn't the government let them learn for free and help the future? Of course, you can say they can just go to the library and pick up a few old movies. But watching old movies only inspire a certain limited ideas, basically that mean that history will repeat by having today's movie as outcome, instead of next generation of videos.

Vrythramax: I am cheap, lol. I watch it at my friends' house, cause they are rich and bought lots of movies. Or I usually wait a couple years until they boardcast it in some channel or come out in library. I don't support download anyway, I am just saying since a lot of teen do it anyway, why not just make it legal for them since they have reason?

darrenpaul: don't they lose a lot of money already? They will actually save some if you think about it. Take out the adult portion of the people who download, they gain a bit more. Expecting the government enforce the law better. Maybe you can actually download from the governemnt site. But you have to enter your social sercuity # to prove you are a teen.
nilsmo
Reduce the power of copyrights instead. In the 1960's in the US the copyright term was 28 years with a possible renewal of 28 years. Now the term of copyright is the author's life plus 70 years. I would prefer the term to be maybe 15 years with a possible renewal of 15 years. Much more fair.

Also the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (US) made it illegal to do anything to bypass software/hardware that was designed to restrict illegal reproduction of copyrighted information. So now you can not legally use software to playback DVD's without license - that means no legal playing of DVD's on Linux (a free OS). That also means you can't play legally remove copyright protection from music you have purchased. It also means you can't prevent software from being installed on your computer when you play back CD's you have bought if it is designed to prevent copying. It's really unfair.

Fair use should be expanded also --- anyways, I could go on and on, but copyright's power really must be lessened. That's a more reasonable solution than what you have for reasons previously stated in the thread.
catscratches
That's one of the most stupid idéas I've ever heard. WHY??? Why the ****** do you think the bands make their music? Why the ****** do you think I make games? Why the ****** do you think people go to work if their work is wrapped up and destroyed since some pirates spreads out their hard work for everyone to download for free?!??!!?!?


EDIT: The damn ****** problem with this world is the lack of respect. The respect for other's work. You wouldn't like to loose 3 years work, why should others want to??? THEY DON'T!!! The respect for others as persons is almost not existing. I've been told several told to go cut my wrist til' I die since I'm emo. Respectful? I don't think so. Noone has any respect any longer. That's the problem. The damn ****** problem.
GSIS
Awesome.

Why stop at movies and music? There are lots of things I can't afford or can't justify spending money on, but I'd like those things anyway.

I'll have them free, please. Very Happy
ctrlTR
I think everything which is about inetersted in education should be free on the Internet for everybody for the time being.It might be continued with entertainment contents Cool How many years will we wait to have every contents without payment ? 20 years , 30 years , 50 years , 100 years.. Laughing anyway , what is your guess ?
coolclay
Music and movies are by in large luxury items. I didn't listen to anything except the radio all through my childhood, and I didn't have any problems with it. I watched some movies, and some tv through my childhood, but it was all free, on tv. My family couldn't afford (and still can't) cable or satellite which isn't a problem, because I barely watch tv or listen to music anyway. Teens of today are addicted to media, both music, and tv/movies. It is horrible, I see some kids today that walk around like all day with headphones in the ears, and talking on cell phones. Technology will be the end of the human race eventually in my opinion. Some teenagers have never taken a walk/hike in the woods and it is really sad.
lukeropro
GSIS wrote:
Awesome.

Why stop at movies and music? There are lots of things I can't afford or can't justify spending money on, but I'd like those things anyway.

I'll have them free, please. Very Happy


What a naive but yet awesome thought.
JC Denton
Pretty stupid in my opinion. Either it's legal for all or illegal for all (My stand is legal for all). The cash problem simply makes it more important to choose and if you are to lazy to go out and buy what you want, then you are pretty damn lazy.
Loghete
I don't think this sounds like a good idea...

But I'm all for legalising piracy.

I mean, they aren't even losing on it. Even when people download music and movies, they still go buy them. I buy about 3 DVDs every year, and I wouldn't buy any more if I wasn't downloading. I just watch more movies.

Same with music. Before I barely listened to any music apart from radio, but when I started downloading music I started listening. Now I sometimes go buy an album too, so the music industry shouldn't think they're losing on it..

Same with games. Before I downloaded I just bought games I knew were good, cause I didn't want to waste money. Now I still buy games I know are good, plus I download games I'm unsure about, and if it's good I buy the sequel when it comes out.

And I know there are many people acting like me.
catscratches
Yes, why stop at music? Everything should be free!! Noone should work! Noone should lift one's finger! Everybody should be damn ****** lazy and think that everything will be all right anyway. Everybody should get everything for free!! HORRAY! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING WITH YOU ******!?!?!?!?!??!? I can't get people who are for piracy. I't your job!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ******!!!!!!!! It's like you've been playing professional football and made all the goals in the match, then someone else get's all the honour and money and you're kicked from the team. IT'S THE DAMN ****** SAME THING!! WHY CAN'T YOU USE YOUR BRAINS!!!!!!!??!?!?!??!
Billwaa
catscratches wrote:
Yes, why stop at music? Everything should be free!! Noone should work! Noone should lift one's finger! Everybody should be damn ****** lazy and think that everything will be all right anyway. Everybody should get everything for free!! HORRAY! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING WITH YOU ******!?!?!?!?!??!? I can't get people who are for piracy. I't your job!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ******!!!!!!!! It's like you've been playing professional football and made all the goals in the match, then someone else get's all the honour and money and you're kicked from the team. IT'S THE DAMN ****** SAME THING!! WHY CAN'T YOU USE YOUR BRAINS!!!!!!!??!?!?!??!


dude, calm down, we are discussing. Not suppose to flame at people. And I think you are missing the point.

Plus--You are not the own game maker..

I am involve in a symphony Orchestra group that play concerts all over the place and have our CD recording sold. I also have a band that we record our song. I also program softwares for people, and also make games for people to enjoy.

So I create? So other people can enjoy them. I don't care if they download my Orchestra's song, in facts, I even put them online to share with other people. Sometimes, we perform concerts for free. Why? we enjoy performing and we love to see people enjoying our music. In our Music Concert Tour to Italy last month. All of us have to pay almost $3000 each to involve in the tour. We don't get pay. And out of our concerts, only 1 we charge people money, simpily because we can't afford renting that one stage.

Games, well, what is game for? Why do you make game? For the money? or for people to enjoy? If you make game for money purpose only, then you are not a good game maker.

By sharing them online, and have other people download them, you don't lose any honor. In fact you gain more honor. Because now, more people know you, enjoy stuffs you created, and you are being admired by other people more.

Why do everything have to be money and have a price? What happen to the people that use to do something for the good of the community? Not for money?

Why can't this world be which everyone share everything they produce? Money is really an evil thing in my opinion. People die for it, kill for it... what is the point? it is just pieces of paper. Let say you get all the money in the world, what good will that do?

How about in a society which money don't exist? Everyone put the products they produce in a gathering place, and everyone share them. Like how you would share stuffs at your own house and with your family. It will be peaceful because people don't really need to rob or steal anymore. And if everyone think for the good of the community not just for themself, the community will be perfect. For artists and people that do serivice work, they are also helping the community by entertaining them. If the whole Earth become a community like this, this planet will be peaceful. Technology will advance even faster because there is no need to develope weapons to fight each other anymore.
DeFwh
What about bums and homeless people they don't have incomes but I'm sure they like music.
Vrythramax
DeFwh wrote:
What about bums and homeless people they don't have incomes but I'm sure they like music.


ummm...as for the "bums", I think they would rather sell the (whatever kind of) music player for food or clothing....and I don't believe the homeless carry around computers with them, let alone have Internet access or even steady access to electricity to download anything....free or otherwise.
Billwaa
Vrythramax wrote:
DeFwh wrote:
What about bums and homeless people they don't have incomes but I'm sure they like music.


ummm...as for the "bums", I think they would rather sell the (whatever kind of) music player for food or clothing....and I don't believe the homeless carry around computers with them, let alone have Internet access or even steady access to electricity to download anything....free or otherwise.


good one totally agree. But think why there is homeless people? I think in a capitalism country, there is always poor and homeless people
DeFwh
Billwaa wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:
DeFwh wrote:
What about bums and homeless people they don't have incomes but I'm sure they like music.


ummm...as for the "bums", I think they would rather sell the (whatever kind of) music player for food or clothing....and I don't believe the homeless carry around computers with them, let alone have Internet access or even steady access to electricity to download anything....free or otherwise.


good one totally agree. But think why there is homeless people? I think in a capitalism country, there is always poor and homeless people


I never said how they got the music Im just saying cant they enjoy the benefits as well. Dont get me wrong I agree with what you were saying but I was thinking more broadly.
paul_indo
Then you should also give it to all the people in underprivileged countries on low incomes.

Why shuld teens get free music and films? If they can afford a computer and internet, they can afford to buy music.
Vrythramax
DeFwh wrote:
I never said how they got the music Im just saying cant they enjoy the benefits as well. Dont get me wrong I agree with what you were saying but I was thinking more broadly.


The orginal topic was about free downloading. I am sure both of those groups ("bums" and the homeless) would certainly enjoy some good music, it would be a wonderful escape from the pressures thier lives may have.

Maybe you strayed off topic just a little. Smile
DeFwh
Well according to this topic teens should be allowed to be able to download music freely. The problem I see here is that not every teen can partake so there would need to be a system in place to accomodate those who dont own a computer or are underprivileged.

Teenagers and Adults both partake in illegal downloading and no matter what the consequences are, except if the punishment was death, people will continue to do it anyways.

Also this idea of everything being free is not a good value because almost nothing in life is free.

I think some kind of minority discount would be more in-line as it wouldn't anger song writers and movie makers, as much.

This is a good idea but like a lot of other good ideas that we want to see happen they're just dreams.
hack_man_
catscratches wrote:
Yes, why stop at music? Everything should be free!! Noone should work! Noone should lift one's finger!


Isn't that sorta a step towards Communism? I agree that we shouldn't be getting these kind of things free. They should be earned
catscratches
Quote:
Games, well, what is game for? Why do you make game? For the money? or for people to enjoy? If you make game for money purpose only, then you are not a good game maker.


I make games to earn money... I don't like games. I can't see how people enjoy them. I make 'em purely for the money, and many others with me. There are different kinds of people. The friendly and the unfriendly. I'm one of the unfriendly, but should I be pushed out of the systems for the pleasure of others for that? Should the rest decide over me and my products. Game Making is (at least for me) a job, nothing more than a job. It's not for pleasure, happiness our anything else. Money. That's whats the world's about.
ThornsOfSorrow
Besides the fact that I don't agree in just giving away music that a band put their heart and soul into, I think that if anyone were to have access to free downloading, it should definitely NOT be teenagers. Although I'm a teen myself (at least for another month, anyway...), I have to say that teenagers typically have much easier lives than adults. It's true that the teenage years are the ones where a person will most likely begin to question him/herself and possibly have some emotional distress, but teens don't need to worry about finances! By simply living under my parents' roof, I get free food, free shelter, and a lot of other monetary benefits (not to mention that my parents are a great source of emotional support as well). I don't have time for a job, so I can't afford many CDs, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to start downloading them. Instead, I ask for CDs for Christmas and my birthday. I save every small bit of money I can get my hands on, and I appreciate what I have. Billwaa, I certainly see what you're trying to say, but music is not a necessity. Just look at what you have already, and be happy that you're getting so many other things for free.
Billwaa
ThornsOfSorrow wrote:
Besides the fact that I don't agree in just giving away music that a band put their heart and soul into, I think that if anyone were to have access to free downloading, it should definitely NOT be teenagers. Although I'm a teen myself (at least for another month, anyway...), I have to say that teenagers typically have much easier lives than adults. It's true that the teenage years are the ones where a person will most likely begin to question him/herself and possibly have some emotional distress, but teens don't need to worry about finances! By simply living under my parents' roof, I get free food, free shelter, and a lot of other monetary benefits (not to mention that my parents are a great source of emotional support as well). I don't have time for a job, so I can't afford many CDs, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to start downloading them. Instead, I ask for CDs for Christmas and my birthday. I save every small bit of money I can get my hands on, and I appreciate what I have. Billwaa, I certainly see what you're trying to say, but music is not a necessity. Just look at what you have already, and be happy that you're getting so many other things for free.


well, not having music doesn't mean death, it is just that music for teen insprire creativity which improve our future...

But there is one thing that I feel strongly should have. Creativity software such as Photoshop, Maya, 3DS MAX, Finale... should have student version that is support by the government avilable to student for free, well first they have to earn it through proving they are actually good at that by create a masterpiece during the 30 days trial. What student can afford couple thousands of dollars? Why do the government waste tax money on war, which do damage more than improve, instead of investing money on students?
Jaan
If I was a bum I'd totally be wardriving right now.
Agent ME
Billwaa wrote:
ThornsOfSorrow wrote:
Besides the fact that I don't agree in just giving away music that a band put their heart and soul into, I think that if anyone were to have access to free downloading, it should definitely NOT be teenagers. Although I'm a teen myself (at least for another month, anyway...), I have to say that teenagers typically have much easier lives than adults. It's true that the teenage years are the ones where a person will most likely begin to question him/herself and possibly have some emotional distress, but teens don't need to worry about finances! By simply living under my parents' roof, I get free food, free shelter, and a lot of other monetary benefits (not to mention that my parents are a great source of emotional support as well). I don't have time for a job, so I can't afford many CDs, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to start downloading them. Instead, I ask for CDs for Christmas and my birthday. I save every small bit of money I can get my hands on, and I appreciate what I have. Billwaa, I certainly see what you're trying to say, but music is not a necessity. Just look at what you have already, and be happy that you're getting so many other things for free.


well, not having music doesn't mean death, it is just that music for teen insprire creativity which improve our future...

But there is one thing that I feel strongly should have. Creativity software such as Photoshop, Maya, 3DS MAX, Finale... should have student version that is support by the government avilable to student for free, well first they have to earn it through proving they are actually good at that by create a masterpiece during the 30 days trial. What student can afford couple thousands of dollars? Why do the government waste tax money on war, which do damage more than improve, instead of investing money on students?

Because War protects us from crazy terrorists. But if the government instead decided to spend that money on buying every kid 3ds-max, maybe a bunch of kids are going to be making cool models, but we're unprotected.


Why stop at getting every kid 3dsmax? Heck, the government should make sure to buy every kid a high-end computer that can run it too. And a desk so they have somewhere to keep it. What about homeless kids? We'll have them buy the kids houses so they have somewhere to keep the desk.
But then while the kids are modelling, they're gonna get hungry, right? The government should buy them food! And a refrigerator if they don't have one already! Heck, free refrigerators for everyone!
[/sarcasm]
Rolling Eyes
DeFwh
So far as music they could make public computers available to transfer music to a mp3 player all provided by the goverment.

The mp3 player could be solar powered and have a max capacity of lets say 2gb. Also a free set of ear phones(per year, since they tend to break).

Another glorious dream that will never happen.
Crying or Very sad Mad Sad
ThornsOfSorrow
Billwaa wrote:
well, not having music doesn't mean death, it is just that music for teen insprire creativity which improve our future...

But there is one thing that I feel strongly should have. Creativity software such as Photoshop, Maya, 3DS MAX, Finale... should have student version that is support by the government avilable to student for free, well first they have to earn it through proving they are actually good at that by create a masterpiece during the 30 days trial. What student can afford couple thousands of dollars? Why do the government waste tax money on war, which do damage more than improve, instead of investing money on students?

I see your point, but I'd much rather have something like interest-free college loans than free software.
Vrythramax
ThornsOfSorrow wrote:
I see your point, but I'd much rather have something like interest-free college loans than free software.


An outstanding point...education and a potential career should be the important thing. Once you have the career you can then afford all the things you (not you Thorns) now wish to have for free.

Only seems to make sense to me.
Billwaa
one question if student want to go into spacecraft designing, don't they need software like AutoCad? How are they suppose to afford that even if they have the free college-loan?
Loghete
Microsoft is for piracy, as long as their products is being pirated.
Why? Because, they know that they don't get money from the interested teens, but the companies they start to work on when they grow up.

Something good about Microsoft Smile

Quote:
one question if student want to go into spacecraft designing, don't they need software like AutoCad? How are they suppose to afford that even if they have the free college-loan?


They should be getting that from the University.
alexdude
It shouldn't be legal because the movie and music companies won't make any money! Go rent the movie or see it in theatre. And go buy the CD that has the song that you want on it. It'll sound better too because its on CD, not downloaded from the internet,.
{name here}
As long as you are the copyright holder of the peice you can choose to distribute it free or proprietary legally. However, most bands do not own copyright to their own music(let me correct myself. Any band that has signed with any record company does not own copyright to their own music), but rather the record company does. The record company is going to be capitalistic in nature, so the music will not be released for free. This goes for movies as well. Because they want to make lots of money they aren't going to release more than a sample filled with junkloads of DRM.
achowles
I think you're seriously underestimating the market value that teenagers have to the entertainment industry.

Many genres of music and film would cease to exist simply because the target audience was never going to pay for them.

So that would ultimately destroy the very things that you're so keen to freeload.

It's true that music pirates ultimately contribute to the vast majority of sales of both films and music, and that's a fact that even the RIAA begrudgingly admits.

Legalisation might therefore not collapse the market in theory, but in practice, faith in either industry would die utterly. Nobody would bother as they'd want to do something more guaranteed of a return.
Kaisonic
In reply to original post, completely ignoring all discussion til now:

That's definitely a very childish suggestion. That's like saying, "I don't have the money to buy this plasma TV because I have no income and am unemployed, so I should get it for free."

You're just mad you can't legally get stuff for free, and you don't wanna pony up the dough and be a decent person.
bigdan
What the hell? That (the original idea) has got be the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

Vrythramax's posts are right on the money. What makes teens any different from anyone else? Welcome to the real world. Music and movies aren't rights, they are privileges.

I'm quite happy to pay to go and see a movie, it gets me out of the house. I'm quite happy to pay for my music, it gives me something to listen to, particularly if it's a style of music I like. I can combine the two if I want.

Sorry, but I give the idea a resounding thumbs down. Nice idea in theory, but in real life, it sucks.
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