Did USA really land on the moon? Or was it just a game they played to win the race against USSR in developing their space programme? Proof has been complied over the years, and new theories have sprouted. Evidences that go against the basics of science now prove that what USA did was nothing but foul play.
Check THIS out.
Dave | dez_trukshun wrote: |
Did USA really land on the moon? Or was it just a game they played to win the race against USSR in developing their space programme? Proof has been complied over the years, and new theories have sprouted. Evidences that go against the basics of science now prove that what USA did was nothing but foul play.
Check THIS out.
Dave |
Err, if you read the link you supplied you will find that each of the points raised by supporters of the hoax hypothesis are covered and answered in detail. There is no doubt that the US landed men on the moon.Why would we even lie about that?
| dez_trukshun wrote: |
Check THIS out. |
Try this insted. | dwinton wrote: |
| Why would we even lie about that? |
Oh there are reasons...that's one of the only credible parts of the conspiracy theories. The US had staked it's credibility on putting a man on the moon and credibility is something which wars have been fought over. The US space program had a lot of catching up to do and it was by no means certain they would manage to fullfill Kennedy's public statement of intent. There was huge pressure and a lot at stake and if lying about it had been a serious option then you can bet that there would have been a small group somewhere in the establishment at least thinking about the possibility.
The problems are that people get hooked up by the possible motivation and then overlook perfectly straightforward evidence which refutes the claims. Let me be clear - there is no 'conclusive' evidence that I can think of that the moon landings were genuine. There is a huge amount of very good evidence though. The reflector on the moon placed by the Apollo missions *could* have been soft-landed I suppose, without manned intervention. The fact is though that they are extremely well aligned and it's actually far more probable that they were fairly carefully positioned. The scientists at Joddrell Bank (not too far from here) *could* all be either lying or part of some huge conspiracy when they present their recordings and telemetry. It is *possible* that thousands of people could have kept their mouths shut about it (it would surely need that many) with nobody breaking ranks. It's technically possible to perform some trickery switch astronauts or whatever. The problem is that it is much more likely that they did go, even if you accept some of the supposed evidence. When examined in detail I know of no convincing evidence to support the conspiracy theory.
On the other hand, the only solid evidence that the doubters will probably have to accept finally as proof, would be an image of a lunar module or vehicle on the surface - and that is beyond current telescopes.
The US was, in many respects, lucky that it won 'the race' to the moon. The USSR had to concentrate it's efforts after the Cuban crisis and went down the route of strategic missile development rather than the space-program, although it kept a program running. There's an interesting discussion of the era here:
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/whynrace.htm
. | Bikerman wrote: |
| On the other hand, the only solid evidence that the doubters will probably have to accept finally as proof, would be an image of a lunar module or vehicle on the surface - and that is beyond current telescopes. |
You give them too much credit. They will either claim the images of the landers are faked, or that they were remotely landed just like the reflectors.
Ockham's razor exists for a reason. | Indi wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: | | On the other hand, the only solid evidence that the doubters will probably have to accept finally as proof, would be an image of a lunar module or vehicle on the surface - and that is beyond current telescopes. |
You give them too much credit. They will either claim the images of the landers are faked, or that they were remotely landed just like the reflectors. |
I regret to say you are probably correct. It's staggering how people can distrust one group/source/body so much that they have to believe even blatantly silly stories and distortions, and the mixture of pseudo-science, confused and mistaken science and dishonest science that these issues always attract.
| Quote: |
| Ockham's razor exists for a reason. |
I'll drink to that 
| Indi wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: | | On the other hand, the only solid evidence that the doubters will probably have to accept finally as proof, would be an image of a lunar module or vehicle on the surface - and that is beyond current telescopes. |
You give them too much credit. They will either claim the images of the landers are faked, or that they were remotely landed just like the reflectors. |
Thats true, its not about evidence to conspiracy theorists, its a faith. The conspiracy is like God to a creationist, any evidence there is agent there are argument, they says its created by the conspirators, the ack of evidence for there arguments, the conspirators created it.The part that I find most unlikely about any suggestion of a hoax is the part about keeping all those people quiet. Not just the astronauts but all the people who planned the missions. Then you have the people who tracked the spacecraft on its journey. Granted there were only a certain number of places with the right type of telescope in those days but I bet the Russians had one. And I'm fairly certain that the USSR would not be very keen on the idea of letting the US win the space race by cheating.
On that note I bet there were plenty of spies within NASA who would have been fairly certain to have informed their handles of any suggestion of a hoax.
The physics arguments that the hoax propsers put forward all seem fairly elementary mistakes on their part and I feel that that combined with the people element make it extremely unlikely that the landings were anything other than real.
David.
Plus the Russians eavesdropped on the transmissions between NASA and the lander,
Basically if it was a hoax, the USSR would have had to have been in on it and many other country's. Which means more people which mean less plausibility.
I believe we landed on the moon. If we didn't at that point in time, then we already have. So what is the big deal? No harm, no foul.
I just don't get why people try to turn everything into a conspiracy. The government is trying to control us. Don't drink the tap water! It has mind control devices. Don't go to the doctor's! They put tracking chips in you! Oh no! If the government really wanted to control us, then they would. Simple as that. Hell, I think they could do a better job for a reason why we are in Iraq or plant evidence. Something better then WMDs.
-shrugs- Got off on a tangent there. But yeah, hoped you enjoyed.
-Handermier
| Handermier wrote: |
I believe we landed on the moon. If we didn't at that point in time, then we already have. So what is the big deal? No harm, no foul.
I just don't get why people try to turn everything into a conspiracy. The government is trying to control us. Don't drink the tap water! It has mind control devices. Don't go to the doctor's! They put tracking chips in you! Oh no! If the government really wanted to control us, then they would. Simple as that. Hell, I think they could do a better job for a reason why we are in Iraq or plant evidence. Something better then WMDs.
-shrugs- Got off on a tangent there. But yeah, hoped you enjoyed.
-Handermier |
Don't forget about the magic bullet that killed JFK!theres alot of alien coverups and area 51 rumors that the government tried to cover up
| Bofia wrote: |
| theres alot of alien coverups and area 51 rumors that the government tried to cover up |
No, the government is not hiding aliens and area 51 (not the bases real name but the name given to it by the media) is a base for testing experimental aircrafts.
the reason people choose to believe that the government is hiding aliens is not that there evidence of it but theres no evidence that aliens have ever visited earth. Some times when the evidence dose not match what people think, they make up conspiracy's to explain it. The flat earth freaks make up some secret global government who's sole purpose is to trick people into thinking the earth is round,, the alien believers say the government is covering up the aliens.There are cover-ups and conspiricies going on all day every day..
When people seek power and want to be Prime Minister / President they want the power to change their countries for the better (Hopefully). BUT they are advised by specialists. Scenarios are formulated etc etc then something gets done that wasn't thier first choice.(cos they've been advised to)
Was Kennedy shot cos he wanted to tell the public of UFO's?
Are the countries of the world still investigating them?
Did we really invade Iraq because of WMD's
Did Bill Clinton have sex with Lewinski?
Who knows....
The thing is.... when people make mistakes, they try to cover it up..
If they believe it will harm them they deny it...
If your position of power is guaranteed by a secret... would you tell it?
Sorry for the ramblin's...... People in business are at it all the time.... Bidding for a big contract... Do you take the manager out for a meal?? Maybe let they stay at your holiday home?... Because of money and power most people will do anything for a little bit more....
Any conspiracy that has more than 5 people involves, odd are some one is going to spill. You can't have these conspiracy's (except the Bush one and thats cause it would have a few people involved), just look at area 51, the government did try and keep that secret, they field.
And look, you can't say "we just don't know" cause there is evidence available. And you can look at the evidence, thats how we know that that the moon landing was real, the evidence and the evidence is why we know that the government is not hiding the existence of aliens, there is no evidence that aliens have ever even visited earth.
And before any one brings up some that was top secret as an example that a conspiracy can work, top secret and a conspiracy to hide the truth or a conspiracy to trick someone into believing something are different.
*bump* cos topic is duplicated so for more opinion
Hellooo!
The ****** flag was moving. lol
Screwed up shadows and yeah..
The whole jumping up abd down crap they did, lol their feet came off the ground wayyyy to so.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNLaUE&mode=related&search=
check that. Yeah, we would lie about landing on the moon. | Blnd4lyfe wrote: |
Hellooo!
The ****** flag was moving. lol
Screwed up shadows and yeah..
The whole jumping up abd down crap they did, lol their feet came off the ground wayyyy to so.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNLaUE&mode=related&search=
check that. Yeah, we would lie about landing on the moon. |
Exsept all those argumints have been debunked.
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.htmlI don't think it was real, mostly because people wants power, and by shocking others with what they possibly can do is great power. So when most people thought it was real then they would think that NASA is powerful, don't mess with them.
I could be wrong, not that I care, people lie about things to be popular, so why wouldn't USA make up this? Popularity is power. And I don't say that all Americans lie and that, most of the ones that was with this is either really old or has died.
But why do we really need someone on the moon? We are failing at living on the earth so we only move to another planet?
I read or heard somewhere that the Russians are trying to go up to the moon and make a permanent base there, this seem to me as a battle between USA and Russia.
So if they succeed and suddenly we find out USA never has been there then what?
If you honestly think no human beings have ever visited the moon, then you must beleive that viking, cassini, the mars rover mission, etc. are all elaborate fakes.
If we can send probes to other planets and have actually flown them out of our solar system, why do you think its impossible to send humans a tiny baby step into space? Or are all those excellent photographs of other planets and the current mars mission just elaborate fakes because the people involved have some bizzarre agenda that demands they must deceive everyone?
Well, you can just imagine the FBI going round and picking up the worlds best photoshoppers and forcing them to work on pictures of frisbees...
| teknotom wrote: |
| Well, you can just imagine the FBI going round and picking up the worlds best photoshoppers and forcing them to work on pictures of frisbees... |
lol nice.
I do believe we've been on the moon. But that video they showed the whole world looked way to corny for me to believe that it was actually real. | Blnd4lyfe wrote: |
| I do believe we've been on the moon. But that video they showed the whole world looked way to corny for me to believe that it was actually real. |
So you believe that NASA was able to send men all the way to the moon, land them safely, then bring them back... but they forgot to send along a video camera?There are always people who believe some weird theories, be it Apollo, 9/11 or Kennedy..
| dez_trukshun wrote: |
Did USA really land on the moon? Or was it just a game they played to win the race against USSR in developing their space programme? Proof has been complied over the years, and new theories have sprouted. Evidences that go against the basics of science now prove that what USA did was nothing but foul play.
Check THIS out.
Dave |
yes i do believe USA landed on the moon. that is to big of a hoax to pull off because there would be to many advantages to prove that wrong.i think that conspiracy theories are often quite interesting. As someone who hopes to work toward creating social change that realistically increases the human species chance of survival, however, I'm not sure that conspiracy theories are all that useful.
Why ask: did humans land on the moon?
When you can ask: beneath the hype, why were NASA's space travel/moon-landing programs started? Have these programs served to increase quality of life for the greatest number of people? Have they strengthened humans' beneficial interactions with the natural world around them?
I think that within the answers to these questions lie more interesting and relevant ways to break down systems of domination and oppression that create and thread through the space program, than does simplistic conspiracy theory.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8919311738731056083
If the movie is real footage from Apollo 11, then it the Landing was staged.
There is a movie that shows the Apollo 15 landing was real tho. Youtube won't let me post the link, but my theory is that the Apollo 11 was faked to get Russia more focused on the Space Program than the Weapons program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&mode=related&search= That would hold a lot. They would have good reason to distract them. Better all round, even if they did fake it.
