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Online Privacy





mschnell
Do you fear that in years to come your online privacy might deteriorate? Do you think it will improve from where it is now?

I sometimes wonder about what all information people can gather about me from my online activity. Someday will this information be used to destroy political careers, etc, etc? Is it a big deal? Where will things go from here?

What do you all think?
iNs@nE
Literally everything on this planet can be used for wrong deeds. It's just the person behind the activity will define the nature of doing..

Yes. You are right. I totally feel that online privacy is already detoriating and it will continue to do so.

Right from people have claimed to have made the most secure network, someone pops up and beats it.. this will carry on..human tendency...

Even at this current time, most of the information being posted yourself and me is being scrutinized and our locations are perfectly known...This is no where close to being called privacy...

If we chose to opt to get cyber - then we ought to start bearing its consequences too...

When you adapt something..you get both the good and the bad sides of it...
Cibes
Yeah, it is kinda scary. Just look at Google: you get customized search results - which come in very handy - and the matching ads in the first spots.
After all it is pretty convenient to everything perfectly matched to you, but most people make it very easy for others to get their personal information. If you pay attention I think you can protect yourself in many ways though.
loryl
Check out the story of AOL user No. 4417749, whose search queries over a three month period were accidentally dumped online for all to share.

Ahhhh... we live in such a wonderful world.
Vrythramax
If any person actually believes that they have ANY online privacy they are seriously mistaken. Forget any programs that say they ensure "anonymous web surfing", the simple fact remains....when you go online you issued an IP number (be it static or dynamic) that can be directly traced back to the users account. As a former webhost myself, I can tell you with all sincerity, that there is no US based Internet company that won't roll over and give up user info in fear retaliation from the FBI Computer Crimes Division. Privacy on the Internet is a dream....at best in this day and age....and it will only get worse as the technology grows.

Has no one here ever heard of "Carnivore"?

Newbies.
Captain Fertile
I agree with Max.

Once you are online and the more you use it then the easier it is for interested third parties to track you down should they so wish.

The important thing in all of this is, the third parties are not as interested in us as we would believe, and we just aren’t so interesting.

Of course once you show up on their ‘radar’ for some reason this can all change.

I also believe that track-ability, like the issue of CCTV cameras everywhere, is only a concern for people who are actually doing something they know to be wrong, those who live within the rules can only find comfort in these measures, of course how many of us live 100% within the rules?

This can be argued until the cows come home but that is my belief.
Animal
I believe that online privacy no-longer exists. Thanks to the introduction of the US Patriot Act and the EU Data Retention laws, citizens are already giving up their right to privacy, and the privacy is being invaded by the very people who should be protecting their rights. The frightening thing regarding online privacy is that it seems to be considered as "different" from other privacy in terms of your rights. For example, for the authorities to be allowed to intercept your postal mail, warrants and court orders would be required - without these, the evidence would be inadmissible when it came to trial. Despite this, many cases are taken to court where offenders were caught by "routine monitoring" of internet use. Why do emails have less right to privacy than postal mail?

What I find absolutely ridiculous is the EU deal with the US regarding flight passenger data. If you fly to America from anywhere in Europe, the American Government have the right to access your flight history, details of past purchases on your credit cards and can even gain access to email previously sent and received from the address you used when booking the flights! I put a story about this on my blog that you may find interesting.

These are examples of where privacy has been essentially eliminated just because it's actually easy/possible for the data to be tracked. I am growing increasingly uncomfortable with the rise of all the social networking sites such as MySpace and Bebo - everyone from young kids to older people are putting every little detail about their lives on these pages, and a lot of the time they don't control who has access to this information. As a parent, would you be happy knowing that your children are putting personal details like these in the public domain? As a young person, would you be happy if some of the details you put on the web were dug up in (say) ten or fifteen years time?

There are varying degrees of privacy protection. These range from simply being careful about what information you give out to completely disconnecting yourself from technology. It's up to you how you protect your own privacy, but I think it's important for you to at least think about it and not simply say "I have nothing to hide so I don't care about privacy". My blog mainly concentrates on privacy and security stories, and if you are interested in your privacy online or would like to find out more about it, I'd invite you to visit and discuss!
dac_nip
Really, when you say online, it means that you are exposed to everyone. Online privacy does not exist, you are seriously mistaken. Everyone should know that when you put something online, its for everyone to see, not yours alone. Somehow, i think that's how the word online connotes to me. Very Happy just my opinion though.
Captain Fertile
I'm much more worried about some weird stalker latching onto my details (or worse, my kids' details) than the government or authorities having my details to be honest.

I do however agree about the double standard comparing online privacy to 'real world' privacy' - they should be the same.
coolclay
I believe the internet, and everything that comes with it and technology in general have led to an extreme reduction in privacy, almost to the point of non-existence. You can go to a people search engine, and type in someones name and get there address and passed addresses, and sometimes age, and sometimes birthday for free. For a little more money you can get access to tons upon tons of other information that most people think is 100% private. There are also huge databases (Voter Vault) that have tons of information on what kinds of things people like, there political affiliations, who you voted for in past elections, what magazines they get, what stores they shop at, and hundreds of other things, and I know because i have seen these databases. Its really sick, the worst thing is most of these databases aren't even held in the US! You can't go anywhere in the US without being caught on a webcam. They have them at several or all bridges, on interstates. Well thats my rant for the day.
Davidgr1200
Employers regularly search the web for information on prospective employees. Remember that much of what you write online, particularly in blogs, can be searched for, found and may be used in evidence against you. For example, you write a blog about some stupid thing that President Bush has done and then when you seek employment in a government department this is found by them and you are crossed of their list of potential employees.
Disaster-Pieces
mschnell wrote:
Do you fear that in years to come your online privacy might deteriorate? Do you think it will improve from where it is now?

I sometimes wonder about what all information people can gather about me from my online activity. Someday will this information be used to destroy political careers, etc, etc? Is it a big deal? Where will things go from here?

What do you all think?


Well my only worry about internet is Identity Theft...
Liu
If you truly understood how the internet works, you would know there is no such thing as online privacy.
Disaster-Pieces
Liu wrote:
If you truly understood how the internet works, you would know there is no such thing as online privacy.

Exactly, most people who put pictures of them selves on the internet usually become victims of identity theft but never realise it.
HoboPelican
Ok, I agree with all of you about privacy being infringed on and that the internet is not exactly a safehouse, but is it really that hard to do things anonymously? Wouldn't all those free WAPs out there give you some anonymity? The IP is going to say Starbucks or whatever. Even your MAC address can be changed anytime you feel the need.

Just curious if I am missing something obvious here?
Kaisonic
I've really just kinda given up on the whole privacy thing. In fact, I've kinda gone the other direction - I make a lot of videos on my sites (see sig), so instead of just labeling them with some vague Internet alias, I put my real name on 'em. I call it my get-my-name-out-there-so-someone-can't-steal-it technique. It's working so far...I think.

As for actual details, like emails and whatnot, I don't really worry about that. There's really nothing I say in forum posts or emails that could ever be used wrongly, mainly because I'm a truthful person, so as long as I always say the truth and stand by the truth, I think nothing can go wrong.

But then again, I am young... one never knows what happens in the future....
Vrythramax
HoboPelican wrote:
Ok, I agree with all of you about privacy being infringed on and that the internet is not exactly a safehouse, but is it really that hard to do things anonymously? Wouldn't all those free WAPs out there give you some anonymity? The IP is going to say Starbucks or whatever. Even your MAC address can be changed anytime you feel the need.

Just curious if I am missing something obvious here?


The ability to remain anonymous on the internet is assuredly possible (and don't bother PMing me any users/members out there with questions on how....I won't reaspond), but it is exceedingly difficult and complex, and (quite possibly) not possible from a standard PC.

Trust me, I work for AT&T and handle these things as a routine matter.
Liu
HoboPelican wrote:
Ok, I agree with all of you about privacy being infringed on and that the internet is not exactly a safehouse, but is it really that hard to do things anonymously? Wouldn't all those free WAPs out there give you some anonymity? The IP is going to say Starbucks or whatever. Even your MAC address can be changed anytime you feel the need.

Just curious if I am missing something obvious here?

You must be kidding if you think a starbucks WAP will give you anonymity.

I've sniffed packets from there before and saw people's MSN/AIM conversations, knew what pages they were visiting, images they were viewing, saw what youtube videos they were watching, etc. etc. MAC address and IP is one thing, but you can deduce a lot more from extracting data from packets being sent over an open wireless network to determine the person's identity. Even if you're constantly changing your IP, let's just take it back to your ISP giving you the address; I'm betting they have records of your online activity.

I guess one should actually clarify what they mean by "privacy". Google records every single query that you search for, Amazon records your orders, user information, and searches for other similar products that you may like. Some may consider this a violation of privacy.

It really doesn't matter what you do on the internet, because if you're requesting information from servers, or traveling across nodes, they have the ability to store your info. May it be difficult to trace you back? Sure. Is it possible? Yes.
snowboardalliance
loryl wrote:
Check out the story of AOL user No. 4417749, whose search queries over a three month period were accidentally dumped online for all to share.

Ahhhh... we live in such a wonderful world.


Wow, yeah just by showing someone's searches you can know so much about them.
jongoldsz
Well, its kind of deteriorating right now. As hackers make more viruses and as the government wants to monitor all forms of communication for suspicious activities, we keep losing internet privacy. But then again, the internet really isn't private. ISPs log and track everything. Email servers log emails, who knows who has access to our email accounts. Maybe someone at Yahoo is so bored that they just start reading random emails for the heck of it.
HoboPelican
Liu wrote:

You must be kidding if you think a starbucks WAP will give you anonymity.

I've sniffed packets from there before and saw people's MSN/AIM conversations, knew what pages they were visiting, images they were viewing, saw what youtube videos they were watching, etc. etc. MAC address and IP is one thing, but you can deduce a lot more from extracting data from packets being sent over an open wireless network to determine the person's identity. Even if you're constantly changing your IP, let's just take it back to your ISP giving you the address; I'm betting they have records of your online activity.


Sorry, I wasn't addressing chats, just browsing and searches. You can control the info sent from your browser to eliminate any ID info. Once you do that, tell me how they would tie a series of free WAP (or hijacked WAP) connections to a individual person. And that is what anonymity is all about. Maybe you're right, but I don't buy it unless you can show me how.
Liu
HoboPelican wrote:

Sorry, I wasn't addressing chats, just browsing and searches. You can control the info sent from your browser to eliminate any ID info. Once you do that, tell me how they would tie a series of free WAP (or hijacked WAP) connections to a individual person. And that is what anonymity is all about. Maybe you're right, but I don't buy it unless you can show me how.

How do you use your browser to eliminate any id info? I'm not exactly sure what ID you're attempting to hide which would completely hinder someone from tracking you down, whether someone nearby, or the ISP.

After studying the internet architecture and taking security courses, I've come to understand that perfect anonymity on the internet would be using it without leaving any sort of traces/footprints at all. EDIT: which just isn't possible.
TruPain
The internet basically told everyone that thier privacy means nothing... and no one cared at the time...

The internet made it easier for people to steal other peoples identities as well as many other things that were more localized that are now spread worldwide.

We have no privacy online, and if you think you do, then society has you fooled...
MrBlueSky
Liu wrote:


After studying the internet architecture and taking security courses, I've come to understand that perfect anonymity on the internet would be using it without leaving any sort of traces/footprints at all.


Which basically means using the internet on a public computer, or hijacking a wireless network. But I think using a (sersies of) anonymous proxy('s) also makes you anonymous enough for most purposes.
Liu
MrBlueSky wrote:

Which basically means using the internet on a public computer, or hijacking a wireless network. But I think using a (sersies of) anonymous proxy('s) also makes you anonymous enough for most purposes.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.

If you use a public computer packets sent over the net still has the potential of being recorded on hops toward your destination, and at the destination. There's still a trail.

Hijacking a wireless network is still the same also, you still leave a trail if you're sending packets. On another side note, a person can triangulate your physical position with remarkable accuracy to find out where you are if you're using a wireless network.

Proxy's would still leave a trail. You have the potential of being recorded when requesting information through the proxy itself, and at hops inbetween the proxy. But yes, it does add another level of privacy and anonymity.

I still believe that there is no such thing as pure anonymity or privacy, but for clarification purposes I'm not arguing that you can't get close to it.
HoboPelican
Liu wrote:
How do you use your browser to eliminate any id info? I'm not exactly sure what ID you're attempting to hide which would completely hinder someone from tracking you down, whether someone nearby, or the ISP.

After studying the internet architecture and taking security courses, I've come to understand that perfect anonymity on the internet would be using it without leaving any sort of traces/footprints at all. EDIT: which just isn't possible.



Perfect anonymity would simply be being able to surf and post without anyone being able to identify the real-life person. You and others keep saying it is impossible but it just seems too troublesome for the average user. I'm not an expert anymore on this, but I don't think there is any info sent by your browser/computer that can't be spoofed. From your classes, why not tell us one bit of info, coming from your computer, that could be used to identify the real-life person and is not possible to by-pass.

I'm not saying that anonymity is easy, I'm just questioning the idea that it is totally impossible.
MrBlueSky
Liu wrote:
MrBlueSky wrote:

Which basically means using the internet on a public computer, or hijacking a wireless network. But I think using a (sersies of) anonymous proxy('s) also makes you anonymous enough for most purposes.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.

If you use a public computer packets sent over the net still has the potential of being recorded on hops toward your destination, and at the destination. There's still a trail.

Hijacking a wireless network is still the same also, you still leave a trail if you're sending packets. On another side note, a person can triangulate your physical position with remarkable accuracy to find out where you are if you're using a wireless network.

Proxy's would still leave a trail. You have the potential of being recorded when requesting information through the proxy itself, and at hops inbetween the proxy. But yes, it does add another level of privacy and anonymity.

I still believe that there is no such thing as pure anonymity or privacy, but for clarification purposes I'm not arguing that you can't get close to it.


Of course there is still a trail, but in the case of a public computer it can't be traced back to your identity. So I would say it actually is anonymous. If all the logs are put together it is possible to recover your every action, but they can't determine your identity other than that you have to be someone who was sitting behind 'library computer 101 between 13:00 and 14:00 pm'.

The same goes for using the wireless network of somebody else.

I think you can say that you are anonymous in both cases, if you define anonymous as: 'the trail you leave on the internet(logs) can't be tagged to your real life identity'.

-- EDIT --

What HoboPelican said:

Quote:

Perfect anonymity would simply be being able to surf and post without anyone being able to identify the real-life person.
truespeed
Too many people give away too much info online,you can find out a lot about a person just by visiting their myspace,or personal sites,for those who want to keep a degree of privacy, yeah i think its possible,obviously if someone with hacker knowledge is determined to get info on you then perhaps there are ways they can find out,i dunno,but i doubt its as easy as some are implying here.

One thing that should be changed is,when registering a domain name,your details should be automatically hidden from whois enquiries as default,rather than as a request.
Animal
truespeed wrote:
One thing that should be changed is,when registering a domain name,your details should be automatically hidden from whois enquiries as default,rather than as a request.

I agree with you here. However, when the Domain Name registration system was brought about, privacy wasn't even considered as an issue. As part of the system to reduce fraud, you need to use valid WHOIS data when registering a domain, so any fake names / addresses / email addresses / phone numbers etc could lead to you having the domain name removed from you. The WHOIS privacy systems are run by the domain resellers who use their own contact details and an automatically created email address so that they can forward any enquiries onto you. The .UK domain registry system has an option for "private individuals" to hide all but their name from WHOIS records which is a far better idea.
Liu
HoboPelican wrote:

Perfect anonymity would simply be being able to surf and post without anyone being able to identify the real-life person. You and others keep saying it is impossible but it just seems too troublesome for the average user. I'm not an expert anymore on this, but I don't think there is any info sent by your browser/computer that can't be spoofed. From your classes, why not tell us one bit of info, coming from your computer, that could be used to identify the real-life person and is not possible to by-pass.

I'm not saying that anonymity is easy, I'm just questioning the idea that it is totally impossible.

Of course there isn't just one bit of info coming from the computer. It is a myriad of information and evidence that you may extract to learn about the person. Because data has the potential to be recorded, this is the case why there is no such thing as pure anonymity. It's simply the matter of fact that things have the ability to intercept your information and record your actions.

However, this may be a question of semantic usage of anonymity also. I consider any information that you can deduce about a person part of the person's identity. And with pieces of these small or be it large information you will be able to deduce a unique person's identity. Sometimes you may not have enough information, from the internet alone to get a unique ID, but with the physical world's evidence you may (say a video camera at the starbucks -- however the camera would be useless if there were no traces on the internet.) Even moreso, sometimes the physical world + the internet isn't enough to identify a person's unique identity. However that doesn't mute the fact that some part of you (evidence) is still out there on the internet because of your actions.

Any information that you can deduce about your searches, queries, etc. Still gives a person some information about what you are doing, your habits, thus more information about who you are. And with due time, given a set evidence from the internet and possibly physical world, if someone really wanted to, would be able to track you down. If there is a trail, it simply isn't possible to achieve true anonymity.

If perfect anonymity existed, the network security officers, fbi agents, etc. wouldn't even have jobs, because there would be no means to trace down a person on the internet, let alone a savy hacker who is purposely trying to obscure his actions. Certainly this is not the case.
Vrythramax
MrBlueSky wrote:
Liu wrote:


After studying the internet architecture and taking security courses, I've come to understand that perfect anonymity on the internet would be using it without leaving any sort of traces/footprints at all.


Which basically means using the internet on a public computer, or hijacking a wireless network. But I think using a (sersies of) anonymous proxy('s) also makes you anonymous enough for most purposes.


read on my friend, all poxy's leave a tracable footprint.

@Hobo

even connecting to a a public access point would not hide your initial identity. The powers that be will only raid that location and find your info accordingly.

EDIT: I have removed certain info that could allow unrouted access.

PM me Hobo.
Vrythramax
I am closing this topic because it is fast becoming a subject of "how to escape being detected", if the original poster would care to talk to me via PM, I will be happy to explain my actions.

Until then the topic is -closed-
Vrythramax
Topic is now unlocked after discussion between the staff.

Personally, I feel online privacy is an extremely easy matter, first don't accept cookies from unknown sites, and keep any personal data which could compromise you in any way off your pc. This includes credit card numbers, logins and passwords (it's very simple to just enter this info as needed and not store it on your computer), and any other sensative info (banking info, checking account numbers, routing numbers, etc.)

Alot of people find paying thier bills online, and making other transactions much easier when they are on the computer, but everyone should know the inherent risks involved with such "time-saving" measures.

First off I'd suggest a good fire-wall be installed if you are going to do this kind of thing,

and second....make sure your on a secure site before entering any info, and don't let your computer save the login (delete the cookie data).
icedrakon
As far as the internet we have the know how to have secure and online privacy using quantum cryptograchy with fiber optic lines but we dont
so who gets the benefit from controling the communications and transactions? Thats the real question....
smartpandian
If one really care about privacy... he has to live under the Earth.

When one come out of home, there were hundreds of cctv eyeing .. at the back drop hundreds of digi cams , traffic cameras etc..etc..

You have to be happy to be a part of it. Its like sharing information in this forum..

obviously, There is privacy in needed to some extent.. but we can t expect always...
skygaia
It's getting serious in my country.
especially anonymousness in internet makes people offensive. It's very easy for people using internet to get angry. Most poeple think nobody knows even if they make offensive replies on the internet.
But sometimes some of people try to find out who they are. And sometimes they did. because many of people use only one or two user ID. So as searching engines like google are getting developed, it'll be easy to find out someone's privacy.
silverdown
I think it will become more and more harder to keep your privacy because the more technology advances the better snooping software they create. I believe in the future they can download logs, files, and see exactly what your doing at any time of the moment. However if they do, it should only be for convicted felons such as pedophiles, murders, thieves, thieves identity thieves ETC. I do believe they would also watch everyone else's as well. That could make it safer for kids at the most or not.
krazy
depends really....
yes online privacy is deteriorating quite fast
say if you use a wireless network with no password on it, you can have people see everything you are doing .
So these days the internet is not safe.
i have not had any troubles before with it, but friends get pop ups and what not to say that people can gain access to their computer, they scan and say this is an open file with personal data in it that all the internet can see etc... so really the internet in a few years time will not be a safe place at all.
the internet is not a safe place anyway.
alexdude
Just never put anything on a site that you don't trust. Always double check the address bar to figure out if you are on the page that you want to be on. (For example, a bank site)
Agent ME
Online privacy?

To understand how to get privacy, you need to know how someone could track you.

Either they know your IP and location and are tracing your activities from there, or they are tracing back from a server trying to find out who used it last, etc.

To combat the the first possibility, merely using someone else's internet is enough. I don't mean breaking in to your neighbor's house, but using public WiFi connections.

The second possibility could be combated by using a string of proxies. Heck, what'd happen if you looped across the same proxy a few times from other proxies? That'd certainly confuse anyone trying to figure out what was going on from the proxy logs. And there are probably many out-of-country proxies who wouldn't bother doing anything if the FBI said that they wanted their logs.

If someone combined those methods (and didn't do something obvious like logging into their myspace account) I don't think anyone would be able to track them.
Online privacy could exist. Just I think I outlined a really overkill method.

And about emails, using PGP encryption and you're good to go. Just by using the Enigmail extension for Mozilla Thunderbird you can be pretty sure that no one between you and your contact is reading the email (unless you or him have a virus-infested computer and it has stolen one of your keys).

Looking back at my post after I typed it, it looks like I might've gone a bit too far into it. If a moderator for whatever reason wishes to edit the post, I'm fine.
smartpandian
Nothing can't be done as much about Online privacy..

Two days back, I was reading this news in slashdot... Uk man was fine 500£ for using the internet thru unsecured wireless access..

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/17/1956233

and year back.. singapore student (17 years) jailed for accessing unsecured wireless access..

I could nt imagine... how people were not even aware of this simple one of securing their network..
and fight for their right..

Some things we can expect, privacy in a private palce.....but We cant expect complete privacy in a public place..

Internet is not a private place.. Smile
Liu
Singapore however has been known to be way to strict in their laws.
ftv_flung
I've tried searching for my name and username with Google and it's amazing how much info you (let alone anyone!) can find out about you.

It's just things like other forums I post on, other websites I use, like Last.fm etc. so it's a bit worrying, and it probably won't disappear for a while
8ballcrazy
Vrythramax wrote:
If any person actually believes that they have ANY online privacy they are seriously mistaken. Forget any programs that say they ensure "anonymous web surfing", the simple fact remains....when you go online you issued an IP number (be it static or dynamic) that can be directly traced back to the users account. As a former webhost myself, I can tell you with all sincerity, that there is no US based Internet company that won't roll over and give up user info in fear retaliation from the FBI Computer Crimes Division. Privacy on the Internet is a dream....at best in this day and age....and it will only get worse as the technology grows.

Has no one here ever heard of "Carnivore"?

Newbies.


same,and if you join a website then the webhost knows your ip so next time you join a website that your testy about,then make sure to be safe

i know its not a big step but turn on your firewall =)
frozenhead
Well, in my opinion, one of the best way to remain anonymous in the web is simply stay anonymous and don't leak out important informations about yourself. Because of the anonymity factor of the internet, a set of your personal information can be use against you. I remember that mid 90's movie called "THE NET"? with that woman totally cast away by deleting and altering her profile and made her a suspect, criminal and a fugitive, that's really scary. Although it's just a movie but I think there is a possibility that the situation can happen in real life to anyone at us. And to add it up, I'm also registered to a online community such as friendster, myspace, etc. but to tell you honestly, the profile I registered even not half a man of who I am. The internet is not a place of exposing your trump card.
skygaia
It is kinda scary. Any information that you can deduce about your searches, queries, etc. Still gives a person some information about what you are doing, your habits, thus more information about who you are. And with due time, given a set evidence from the internet and possibly physical world, if someone really wanted to, would be able to track you down. If there is a trail, it simply isn't possible to achieve true anonymity. If perfect anonymity existed, the network security officers, fbi agents, etc. wouldn't even have jobs, because there would be no means to trace down a person on the internet, let alone a savy hacker who is purposely trying to obscure his actions. Certainly this is not the case. actually, I copied someone's reply and pasted here..
biljap
I was surprised when I sow for the first time statistic for a website visits… I sow for every user country, internet service provider, ip address, so many details and I believe that using that information some people can easily find who you are. Also, who knows what information are websites gathering when you visit their pages… There’s no privacy at all. You just have to be careful not to give some important information about you to the wrong persons. And they even find I way to make you do it yourself! I received a lot of emails where I was said that I won some lottery (I never gave them my email!) and that I have to give information about me, my bank account number, and so on… the email was really nice and professional written, somebody might believe in it and I don’t want even to think what they do with those information.
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