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We can only successfully





silkmesh
We can only successfully lead our lives in a civilised way, without hurt others and by curbing our natural selfishness. Unfortunately we have to bare the greed and selfishness of others that wish to behave uncivilised or those that have been completely brainwashed.

We are born with a will to survive that is embedded into our genes, we are alone a single-minded entity that can be shaped by our parents and taught how to live by our parentís standards. We learn to love and respect those that look after us. At school we are influenced by our teachers and our countries government, it here we learn the patriotism, normally a form of propaganda set by our rulers.

Before we are 16, we are all brainwashed into what others wish us to believe in, with out question we then become one of the flock. We allow our leaders to plan our lives even to the point of going to war for them, like a bunch of pawns. Our leaders normally originate from political clans or rich backgrounds where they have been trained to fool and use the sheep. These clans and rich families have normally a crooked ancestry and they know how to hold on to power.

In some third world countries the ruling clans insure that those in poverty cannot get a good education. Although it looks like they are trying hard to educate the people, they never fund education to the extent that is needed. They also place financial obstacles so the parents cannot afford to send all their children to school. Such as un-needed uniforms and un-needed project requirements that require the parents to purchase extra stationary throughout the school year.

The Catholic Church seemly also wants the third world to be illiterate as that helps to keep their flocks to keep up the faith and to believe in their propaganda about birth control. Thus the more population expands the more money goes in the collection bags and for church services such as baptism, marriage, blessings and funerals.

Throughout our life, someone will always find away to make us do or buy something we do not really need. Because we behave like sheep we will believe in what and advertiser states until we know better by experiencing the product or service and find there is a problem, some times to late and we get duped.

We pass on those beliefs that others wish us to believe in our culture is based on truth and lies nothing is what it seems. One of the Worlds greatest philosophers, Jesus Christ mentioned many times about shepherds and sheep within his sermons. He knew that mankind behave like sheep and that people are easily led.

Itís my opinion that the only way we can have peace on earth is to eradicate the propaganda. Only have one culture that is built on truth, cut out all superstitious religious groups, as they are an insult to human intelligence. We should be ashamed to believe in something dreamed up by our superstitious uneducated ancestors, many Centuries ago. At a time when human kind believed the world was flat and the sun orbited the earth.

I expect that the future will be chaotic but man will be more enlightened by the fruits of the Second Renaissance. The outcome will not be perfect but the World and its populace will be more in harmony. And man will fore fill the destiny that the creator planned.
loyal
Quote:

Before we are 16, we are all brainwashed into what others wish us to believe in, with out question we then become one of the flock.


That's wrong. At the age of 12, i questioned God and the Qur'an. A year later i was debating with Christians. And i've learnt so much since i was 12. I am not at all brainwashed, nor do i blindly follow anything. I believe Islam to be true, and i believe the Qur'an is true, but unlike the majority of Muslims, i think the hadiths are false (as a whole).
Being young doesn't mean you are easily led.

Quote:

We are born with a will to survive that is embedded into our genes


That's a very very high claim. It's also probably wrong. What about the mother defending her child? She's risking her own life. That clearly proves your statement wrong. Maybe you'll respond saying she wants to keep her offspring safe to carry on the race, but i can counter this argument by responding she can easily have another child.

Quote:

Itís my opinion that the only way we can have peace on earth is to eradicate the propaganda. Only have one culture that is built on truth, cut out all superstitious religious groups, as they are an insult to human intelligence. We should be ashamed to believe in something dreamed up by our superstitious uneducated ancestors, many Centuries ago. At a time when human kind believed the world was flat and the sun orbited the earth.


Your lack of research is yet again clearly shown. Religions are very intelligent. The Hindu religion tells its followers to (i'm quoting from memory so the details are a little fuzzy) fast on the 11th month of the lunar cycle, when the acidity of the stomach is lowest and the body is detoxicating itself. This is clearly a scientific fact, yet you call these religions "superstitious". The major world religions don't claim the world is flat, and i don't ever remember reading a religious text that says the world is flat. Propaganda is not created by religion, so i don't see the link between destroying propaganda and getting rid of religion. Things like the media create propaganda.
may God bless you.
Liambaby
Personally, I cannot foresee a second renaissance for humankind. We are currently in a state of mental, spiritual and cultural decadance, and I can only see it getting worse. It's happened time and again with past empires and civilizations. The Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, all go throught the same eras of conception, renaissance and decline. It just so happens that we are now a global empire, rather than a localised one.
silkmesh
Hey Loyal, you do not think the Christians where trying to brainwash you to be a Christian. You do not believe that within the 12 years after birth within an Islamic culture that you had not been persuaded that following Islam is the right thing to do, your parents, teachers and because in your social environment this is what the rest of the sheep do.

I have lived in an Islamic environment I have Muslim friends in London and Bangladesh, Sheralanka, China and in the Philippines. I have read the Koran 5 times and have spent many hours speaking to Muslims clerics at speakers corner Hyde Park London. I have just spent 40 days in Muslim communities in Shenzhen and Hong Kong with some of my friends they see me as a human and follower of one true god some say that even though I don't believe in Islam that I am a Muslim.

I was born into a Christian society and I have read the bible many times. My motherís family was Jewish and after she died I took up that faith as it seemed right at the time. I have spent time speaking with Jewish Rabbi's and believers and studied the torah.

I have also studied many other religions, but my main interest are those that arisen out of a semantic origin.

Of course I have not research enough? I am still doing research and you are part of that research. I am trying to find out how deep this brainwashing is in society and why people lose logic thinking to blind faith.

Thank you for your input, about the article from my book.

Best Regards
HereticMonkey
silkmesh: Which religions are of a "semantic" origin? On the other, most religions are of a semitic religion. Even Buddhism and Hinduism have some of their roots in Zoroasterism (sp?).

Liambaby wrote:
Personally, I cannot foresee a second renaissance for humankind. We are currently in a state of mental, spiritual and cultural decadance, and I can only see it getting worse. It's happened time and again with past empires and civilizations. The Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, all go throught the same eras of conception, renaissance and decline. It just so happens that we are now a global empire, rather than a localised one.

1) There is no truly global empire, even though the EEC may come close...Even the UN is just basically a diplomatic clearinghouse...

2) I don't know about the decadence, though. We're actually looking at things in terms of moderation, at least, compared to our ancestors. Also, we're looking at terms of individual rights being more important than society's, resulting in, ironically perhaps, more successful societies.

HM
silkmesh
The DRAFT of my book is at

http://silkmesh.freespaces.com/book.html

Tear it apart, but read it you may learn something?

Best Regards
loyal
silkmesh wrote:

Hey Loyal, you do not think the Christians where trying to brainwash you to be a Christian. You do not believe that within the 12 years after birth within an Islamic culture that you had not been persuaded that following Islam is the right thing to do, your parents, teachers and because in your social environment this is what the rest of the sheep do.


???
I don't understand. Is that paragraph supposed to be a question or something?

Quote:

I have lived in an Islamic environment I have Muslim friends in London and Bangladesh, Sheralanka, China and in the Philippines. I have read the Koran 5 times and have spent many hours speaking to Muslims clerics at speakers corner Hyde Park London. I have just spent 40 days in Muslim communities in Shenzhen and Hong Kong with some of my friends they see me as a human and follower of one true god some say that even though I don't believe in Islam that I am a Muslim.

I was born into a Christian society and I have read the bible many times. My motherís family was Jewish and after she died I took up that faith as it seemed right at the time. I have spent time speaking with Jewish Rabbi's and believers and studied the torah.

I have also studied many other religions, but my main interest are those that arisen out of a semantic origin.

Of course I have not research enough? I am still doing research and you are part of that research. I am trying to find out how deep this brainwashing is in society and why people lose logic thinking to blind faith.

Thank you for your input, about the article from my book.

Best Regards


I am not brainwashed. I have always been very anti-blind. I prefer logic to blind faith. It took me months to accept Islam because i spent ages trying to find flaws within it. Even the Qur'an tells me to be pro-thinking and not have blind faith. You said you've been reading the Qur'an. But have you been understanding the Qur'an? There's a grave difference:

Glorious Qur'an [17:36]: You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Isn't that proof that Islam does not teach blind faith but against it? Don't forget too, that in the Golden Age of Muslims, the arabs grew powerful and strong and very scientifically advanced.

I can give you some of my findings on blind faith: some people are blind and don't accept the Truth, because they do not WANT to find the Truth. They want to be happy with what they already have, and will do anything to convince themselves it's not a lie. It's all about WANT. Do you agree?

may God bless you Smile .
silkmesh
This is my opinion and in no way do I wish to make you lose faith in Alah.
The Koran is just another set of laws and rules that makes it no different to the Bible or the original text of the Torah.

These books where used to enforce law in Gods name, They have all been wrote by men with an objective to control the sheep. They contain mystical fiction and some facts.

to state: Pursue not that which you have no knowledge of (Koran 17:36). In fact is very un-scientific and seemly against free thinking. One should always pursue knowledge to obtain good education and later the required information to keep you interested and to develop.

Does this mean that Alah wants us to be blind about everything and just take the words of the man and the men that wrote the Koran as this is the only book of knowledge? Brainwashing at its best my friend.

Yes I understand the Koran, the Bible and the Torah they all have one objective and that is to indoctrinate the sheep and keep the sheep under control of the priests.

I certainly believe in one creator because to me that is very logic.

My advise is cut out the middle men and pray direct, if God exists as I think he may, this is exactly what God would wish to do. As his temples and wishes have been corrupted by men, that wanted power and still want power.

Remember that is my opinion as a free thinking man.

Best Regards
loyal
silkmesh wrote:
This is my opinion and in no way do I wish to make you lose faith in Alah.


I doubt you could do that. I've debated with christians for three years and they couldn't do it.

Quote:

The Koran is just another set of laws and rules that makes it no different to the Bible or the original text of the Torah.


Another set of Laws? The Qur'an is a guide. A mercy.

It's different to the Bible and Torah because they have been changed by the hands of man. The Qur'an has remained the same.

Quote:

These books where used to enforce law in Gods name, They have all been wrote by men with an objective to control the sheep. They contain mystical fiction and some facts.


The Qur'an is not used to enforce Law. In-fact claiming that the prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, wanted to enforce Law so he wrote a Book, isn't a very wise statement.
After looking at Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, and in his position in his society we can conclude he had no power in society and in-fact he was very poor and an orphan. His own cousin refused to marry him because of his lowly status. So you can't claim he wanted to enforce Law.

So maybe he wanted to become powerful? Nope. The clan in power, wanted the prophet to stop preaching monotheism so badly, they offered him a kingship and lots of wealth, which is a mark of their desperation. The arabs hated kings as anyone who's looked at that time period knows. Naturally, the prophet was not preaching monotheism for wealth. He was just on a mission from the Lord of the Heavens and the earth.

Quote:

to state: Pursue not that which you have no knowledge of (Koran 17:36).
In fact is very un-scientific and seemly against free thinking.


That translation isn't very good. Looks like something from pickthall or yusuf ali.
So a clearer translation:

And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

The verse is saying that you are not allowed to believe in things which you are ignorant about. In other words, one can't go around saying "the moon is made out of pure copper" if one hasn't taken the time to do the research and to find out what's really true, then he can't believe in what he's saying.
A man who's studied for many years and investigated theories, CAN believe in the big bang (even if it turns out to be wrong). Because he's not basing it on feelings but the facts he's learnt.

Quote:

Does this mean that Alah wants us to be blind about everything and just take the words of the man and the men that wrote the Koran as this is the only book of knowledge? Brainwashing at its best my friend.


First of all, from an atheistic point of view, only ONE man wrote the Qur'an.
Second, this is clearly not brainwashing. Just read the verse clearly.

Quote:

Yes I understand the Koran, the Bible and the Torah they all have one objective and that is to indoctrinate the sheep and keep the sheep under control of the priests.


There's 1.5 billion Muslims on earth. The Qur'an itself issues not very many laws. I can do practically anything i want, except the things which are harmful to me which the Qur'an forbids, and i'm not allowed to worship another God.
What is so "keep the sheep under control"?

[quote]
I certainly believe in one creator because to me that is very logic.

My advise is cut out the middle men and pray direct, if God exists as I think he may, this is exactly what God would wish to do. As his temples and wishes have been corrupted by men, that wanted power and still want power.

Quote:

Remember that is my opinion as a free thinking man.


And you are welcome to an opinion as long as you continue to investigate and learn.

may God bless you.
silkmesh
I have heard all those answers before, by other indoctrinated people at speakerís corner in Hyde Park London. Its absolutely bullshit.

As with Christians each person that has been indoctrinated with thousands of years old mystic and superstitious nonsense.

Itís because you are all weak minded and scared to think that you are alone and have to have a staff to lean on.

Wake up, we live and we die the super duper creator is not interested, never spoke to and does not care about us; we are just another creature that follows the nature of the universe. Survival of the fittest.

You have only one chance at life so get all this mystic trash out of your mind and live life the best way you can.

At present I feel sorry for you and the others under the spell of mystical manacs that lived in a time when man was pretty stupid due to lack of education. Though man is more educated it would seem many still believe in crazy cults., with nutty ideas about a boring heaven.

Man needs to wake up.

Best Regards
Subsonic Sound
Quote:
That's a very very high claim. It's also probably wrong. What about the mother defending her child? She's risking her own life. That clearly proves your statement wrong.


Forgive me for latching onto one of the smaller points here, but honestly I had to comment on this.

I've often come across people claiming that parental altruism disproves the idea of selfish self-preservation instincts. But biologically, what is the point of our own survival? We are going to die. That much is certain, I hope we can all agree on that. Whether prematurely or through old age, we will die. So even stronger than the instinct to preserve our own shells is the instinct to preserve our legacy. Our own genes, passed on in a new form. Our species, in fact, but more directly our own existance.

So yes. A parent will fight to the death to save a child. The child is the next step in the geneological chain, preserving our existance. We are motivated by selfish survival - but not our INDIVIDUAL selfish survival, the survival of our line.

Quote:
Maybe you'll respond saying she wants to keep her offspring safe to carry on the race, but i can counter this argument by responding she can easily have another child.


Heh.

Remember that this age we live in now is not the one that forged our instincts. A mother who becomes pregnant now has medical treatment nearby, trained experts, advanced technology, in most cases jobs willing to fund a little time off to help them get through it and recover... it's still a hell of an ordeal. Several months of effective disability, ending in hideous pain, and great expense, with the costs and difficulties of feeding, clothing, educating and raising a child.

Having a kid is hard.

But it used to be MUCH harder.

When if your partner didn't stick around, you would starve to death in the late stages of pregnancy. You may not even survive the birth. Infant mortality rates were sky high. Food could be scarce. Conditions were harsh.

In those days - and even now, in many ways - having and raising a child was possibly the greatest challenge anyone could ever face.

So don't tell pretend that it's easy, or a matter to be dismissed out of hand.

"Oh no, my baby died. Guess I'll have to make another. Darn."
HereticMonkey
silkmesh wrote:
I have heard all those answers before, by other indoctrinated people at speakerís corner in Hyde Park London. Its absolutely bullshit.



Quote:
As with Christians each person that has been indoctrinated with thousands of years old mystic and superstitious nonsense.

I don't...Not killing people is considered a good think. Eating non-dangerous things also a good thing. Not killing a relationship because it can create bad feelings is another a good thing.

You know, for something that's "nonsense", there appears to be a lot of good ideas there...

Quote:
Itís because you are all weak minded and scared to think that you are alone and have to have a staff to lean on.

Or I could have decided that being part of a larger organization could be a good thing. Why is it a bad thing to have and be part of a support structure?

Quote:
Survival of the fittest.

Let's see: Surviving as a single unit versus living as a a larger unit: Which one do you think is better?

Quote:
You have only one chance at life so get all this mystic trash out of your mind and live life the best way you can.

Is it mystic if it has a practical value?

Quote:
At present I feel sorry for you and the others under the spell of mystical manacs that lived in a time when man was pretty stupid due to lack of education.

I'd like to think that they set the basis of our belief system so that we could have a more moral system. Or do you believe that everyone should do solely what they believe is right, without worrying about others?

Quote:
Man needs to wake up.

Sometimes, I prefer the blue pill...

HM
silkmesh
This is all trash.

I am not posting any more.

Your all a waste of space


Good riddens
loyal
silkmesh wrote:
This is all trash.

I am not posting any more.

Your all a waste of space


Good riddens


Didn't you call yourself a seeker of knowledge or truth or something?
And yet you insult all of us and refuse to see all our opinions.

How rude
Evil or Very Mad
Montressor
loyal wrote:
How rude
Evil or Very Mad

He's already (in the short time he's been with us), threatened to leave once:
silkmesh wrote:
I will not post here again unless asked by a forum member personally
-Posted on Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:15 am, here
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