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better hosting system





n0obie4life
Well, I dunno what to think of.

But this current "5 post system" is kinda bad, now.

People just come here at random times. Then randomly post some SPAM. And buzz off for the rest of the next 3 / 4 months.

Maybe a system where people can rate who should get hosting and who shouldn't? Or maybe a shop, then they have tickets for hosting there Wink.

The shop would be a better system IMHO.
WickedGravity
I follow your logic noobie.

The 5 post system is just not working, as we can all see.

I love the idea of post-for-host, don't get me wrong. We just need something a tad more stringent to make sure the activity levels on the forums stay where we want it to be.

Noobie has a good idea with the shop mod, or maybe you could even set the points mod to deduct a lot more than what it is now perday so at people would have to come back more often.

SPAM we are catching as fast as we all can, but there are better ways to handle the inflow of that as well.

Minimum post lengths and the like.
BlackSkad
Those are indeed a few possibility's:
  • minimum post length to avoid SPAM (you can find a beta-mod here)

  • Deduct more or reduce the points more. People can post a lot now and then stay away for about 45 days. That's indeed not good for the regularity of the visits. So maybe you may reduce the points each day to a limit of 14 (2 weeks) or even lower (which might be a little problem for people who travel a lot and don't have internet-access everywhere they go) This will force people to return certainly within 2 weeks (or less)

  • The shop: can you explain how you would like to do that? I can't realy see a way of solving the "5 posts"-problem with such a shop. Won't you always have the problem that people spam a lot to get that host?
    Maybe you can let each user buy a hosting-ticket each week (for a few Frih$), so they need to return each week. That requires even more efforts to maintain the host, so only those who realy want it will stay and will also post on the forums.

  • Maybe it is usefull to make something like a reserve-bucket for points. You can collect a maximum of points to fill the bucket and you can use it in periods that you are unable to access internet (f.e. when you are on holidays for 2 weeks) Once you have used some points from the bucket to keep the site online and you have posted in the forums again, you should have to wait a few weeks before refilling the bucket again. So the maximum period people are gone is 2 weeks and between each period of abscence there are some weeks (and not only a few days of spamming). It's only an idea, maybe it's usefull Smile
Maka
Good points here, you see the same pattern with people, you know where hosting like over 500+ and yet the forum still remains unactive at times, this shouldnt happen with this many accounts!, people request get hosting then come back only after they recive there first or second warning then spam up to the required posints then clear off for another month while we have to clear up there spam or stupid topics and comments.

Something needs to change I agree.
n0obie4life
Glad my idea proved useful Wink.

@the guy that gave me 3 point forms (forgot ur name, sry)

The minimum length mod isn't really useful. I saw another forum with it. Everyone just did this.

Taking of an example of the topic "Where do you live?" :

Person - Singapore. fwhahahahahhahahahahah.

Deducting more points won't prove useful. I tell ya. People will still come back. Spam EVEN more.

If you EVER used phpBB's Shop Mod (referring onto Geocator's one, i forgot the name again, but its based on erics.), then you will know what i mean instantly Wink.
n0obie4life
I thought of an IDEA Wink.

*laughs*

1. Remove points mod. Kinda pointless. Having 2 systems running at the same time.
2. Install Shop Mod and the Karma Mod.
3. If the user does NOT have hosting, Karma Mod will be disabled for him

-- OR--

If the user has less than [defined] karma, he won't be allowed in the SHOP (php mod needede).

4.

User rates if person deserves hosting, if he has hosting.

If user has hosting lesseer than [deefined] karma, hosting = suspend. Only admin can overrule that (causee some people might wanna sabotage and etc).

5 . Install the 1 IP / register and the 1 IP / acct, so multiple accounts won't be made.

Sorry for that little mess. I hate using the laptop. The keys are too "seenseetive".
Maka
Yea I tried out a mod once that you needed x amount of posts for a certain forum, pretty easy install, it could also take points off also a topic cost. The point system we have at the moment needs working on it's to easy to get points with just a single line or quoteing someone.
Bondings
I will try to make it that way that only posts larger than x amounts(150?) of characters will get Points/Frih$.

The only problem is the cash mod. It is way too complicated because of its many features, and I doubt I'll find a way to do this in the soon future. Is there maybe someone who knows the cash mod better than me and can give me a tip where my code should come?

Maybe somewhere in here? (from includes/functions_cash.php)
Code:
function factor($modifier = false)
   {
      $exp = 0;
      if ( !$modifier )
      {
         $exp = intval($this->currency['cash_decimals']);
      }
      else
      {
         $exp = intval($this->currency['cash_decimals']) + $modifier;
      }
      return intval(pow(10,intval(max(0,$exp))));
   }
   function attribute_pack($key,$value)
   {
      $keys = array('cash_exchange'=>1,'cash_perpost'=>1,'cash_postbonus'=>1,'cash_perreply'=>1,'cash_perchar'=>1,'cash_maxearn'=>1,'cash_perpm'=>1,'cash_allowanceamount'=>1);
      if ( isset($keys[$key]) )
      {
         if ( $key == 'cash_perchar' )
         {
            return intval($value * $this->factor(PERCHAR_DEC_BONUS));
         }
         else
         {
            return intval($value * $this->factor());
         }
      }
      else return $value;
   }
WickedGravity
I know that this is probably pissing into the wind, but here is the official thread over at PHPBB forums. Maybe you can ask there and/or sift through the pages to see what you need.

I know that is really helpful, but my time is limited at the moment or I would have done it myself.
n0obie4life
Smile.

Doesn't cash and points conflict?
snowboardalliance
BlackSkad wrote:
  • Deduct more or reduce the points more. People can post a lot now and then stay away for about 45 days. That's indeed not good for the regularity of the visits. So maybe you may reduce the points each day to a limit of 14 (2 weeks) or even lower (which might be a little problem for people who travel a lot and don't have internet-access everywhere they go) This will force people to return certainly within 2 weeks (or less)


Maybe it could be based on rank. Like new people have a really low limit (like 14) but as your higher, you get the 45 back incase of vacations or anything.

Also, there is not a seperate MOD for cash and points, it's just two different currencies set by the MOD.

Another thing, maybe you should require more posts to get hosting (like 10 or 20). Seems like it would make more sense to me.
n0obie4life
Dude, I'm 99.999999999999999% sure Points and Cash are installed together.
WickedGravity
noobie is right, the point and cash mod are the same MOD. They are just two seperate "currencies" of the cash mod is all.
n0obie4life
If that code Bondings gave me was in SMALL or I think they call it PAWN now. Smile.
gonzo
n0obie4life wrote:
can rate who should get hosting


Perhaps you should just send applicants here:

http://www.beigetower.org/
davmcmul
maybe if all members could give out membership except by members i mean strictly just the anti-spammers, if one post of yours is found to be spam(definite spam) then you're suspended from the club (not your hosting) for two weeks.

This way we have more people who are handing out memberships, but these people are not spammers and they may be willing to take a closer look at people before letting them in.
Simulator
I THINK that Bondings just wants us to be posting on the forum is for the ads which pays for the hosting, so I don't think it will make a difference to him if he changes it or not, as long as the hosting is paid for, but still I think it is a good Idea, this was probably said before but
Post = Bandwidth
More Posts = More Space
Too Much Posts = Moderator on this Site for a month
Spam = Nothing
n0obie4life
Yes, thats what he IS aiming.

But here, I'm referring to.

Users just coming in for 1 day. Spam totally. And leave.

that won't help bondings earn money for the next 30 days. it only helps him earn fro 1 day.
snowboardalliance
20 posts to request gives you a better idea if someone spams or not.
Bondings
snowboardalliance wrote:
20 posts to request gives you a better idea if someone spams or not.

That's true, but it will scare of a lot of members. Not everyone wants to post 20 times before getting an account. And it's hard to find 20 topics to reply to without having an account and being used to this forum.
n0obie4life
I still feel that the Karma system would be better. Maybe a Karma and post system Very Happy.
WickedGravity
There has to be a way that we can mess with a Karma system to make it so it wouldn't be as annoying as I think it would be on a site with this many people.

Maybe certain permissions before you could use it or something.

I shall think on this and let you know what I find out.
Deji
how about
(hosting related)
- as soon as someone is accepted for hosting their points are reduced to 1 or 2 or something low, so they have to keep coming back (at least for a while) to keep their site active.

if they spam take their account away ( a kinda trial period of sorts)

- some kind of trial period
you get an account for 20 days then we review your forum posts / site progress (probably more concerned with posts because sites can take a while to create). if all you have posted is the minimum to have your site up and not contributed .. i.e. one word posts then you get your account rejected.

- some kind of challenge...

maybe 3 different tasks depending on what your interested in you have to pick one.
1) give an example layout of how you think your site will look (basic code)
2) post some writing about a topic that you feel strongly about
3) post some fiction (sci-fi / fantasty etc.
4) post a photoshopped layout of your site (doesnt require coding knowledge)
etc.

something to show that people are honestly willing to a) work for their hosting b) create something that the admins can show off in the site directory (when its up)


(in general)
- IP ban people

all the "i need a site to host "sharewarez" " people / spammers or just people who break rules = ip ban, then they cant come back and ask for hosting again.

i understand some people think they made good posts but didnt or maybe made a mistake in the post (like i ended up posting my applcation twice cause my connection messed up) but there are people who are never going to follow any rules so might as well just get rid of them more perminantly. more space for "real" users.
LostOverThere
A shop seems a better idea.
With either your points or $$$ then you could have things like 10$ for a account, and maybe even 'Add Google ads to your website' +10$ a month, or
20$ a month for a Top level Domain or something.
gonzo
Simulator wrote:
I THINK that Bondings just wants us to be posting on the forum is for the ads which pays for the hosting


Since accounts are deleted should the user fail to participate in the forum it hardly seems reasonable to have such an equivocal "definition" of spam.

By no means am I a fan of spam, but communities quickly break up when a primary definition is

"the moderator doesn't agree with the jist of the post"

I have gone to great lengths to stem the tide of blog spam!
n0obie4life
This seems like its going nowhere Very Happy.

Nevertheless, lets keep giving ideas.
jveezy
Reset points every week or so. That way everyone will have to come back in order to at least bring their points back up.

Don't just discourage spam but BAN it. Any post not longer than one line should prompt some sort of warning system:

1st spam post = warning
2nd spam post = final warning
3rd spam post = 1 week hosting ban
4th spam post = 1 month ban
5th = account deletion

Also, employ some sort of karma system but only have moderators or admins vote on those. If someone decides to go on vacation or something and won't be able to post for a while, then they can pm a moderator or admin to inform of the situation and their karma can be proof that they can be trusted to return that way their account won't be suspended.

Make one favorites thread in every forum and make it a sticky. I'm new here and I see about three different "What is your favorite football team?" threads in the sports forum. Ban people that create new ones.

Also, just use moderator/administrator discretion for every hosting case. If you believe someone is spamming or unfairly abusing the hosting system, even if there's no hard mathematical (points) data to prove it. Just warn and delete if it doesn't change. You can adopt a dictatorial stance and most loyal community members wouldn't care because they are following the rules. After all, YOU are providing a service to US. Not the other way around. It should be on your terms and your discretion, not ours. It doesn't have to be fair. It's like those "We have the right to refuse our service to anyone" signs.
tidruG
snowboardalliance wrote:
BlackSkad wrote:
  • Deduct more or reduce the points more. People can post a lot now and then stay away for about 45 days. That's indeed not good for the regularity of the visits. So maybe you may reduce the points each day to a limit of 14 (2 weeks) or even lower (which might be a little problem for people who travel a lot and don't have internet-access everywhere they go) This will force people to return certainly within 2 weeks (or less)


Maybe it could be based on rank. Like new people have a really low limit (like 14) but as your higher, you get the 45 back incase of vacations or anything.

Also, there is not a seperate MOD for cash and points, it's just two different currencies set by the MOD.

Another thing, maybe you should require more posts to get hosting (like 10 or 20). Seems like it would make more sense to me.


This one is probably the toughest thing that can be done, and yet makes a lot of sense to me...

Once a user gets hosting, his max points should be reduced to like 7, so that he has to post at least every week, and as he gets more and more active, slowly increase the max points to like 45-50. And minimum posts to request hosting must be at least 10... 5 is too less, and 20 may be a little scary, though I've seen more quite a few post-for-host sites the minimum being 50 posts to request.

As far as spam is concerned, we Mods have to be a lot more strict. I, for one, am a little afraid of deleting very popular threads even though they easily qualify as spam, for fear of flaming... and also, someone else will start an equally annoying similar post. We should be less tolerant towards spam, and let users know what we consider spam.
LostOverThere
I actually like the shop idea.
Post enough in the forums (without spaming) = more points = stuff to spend at the FRIHOST Shop.
babumuchhala
i dont support the reducing of points limit

What if i got exams or am gonna go on vacation or some problem with my comp or the net connection.

That would mean a disaster to my site and will have to start all over again.




As to recognising spam. each one of us have different levels of tolerance to consider wheter the post is spam or not. So we will have to extensively put a point by point thing to identify spam

plus a temporary ban of a spammer will only do more harm than good. He will spam more in order to get their points up. This will mean more spam and thats what we dont want
tidruG
babumuchhala wrote:
i dont support the reducing of points limit

What if i got exams or am gonna go on vacation or some problem with my comp or the net connection.

That would mean a disaster to my site and will have to start all over again.




As to recognising spam. each one of us have different levels of tolerance to consider wheter the post is spam or not. So we will have to extensively put a point by point thing to identify spam

plus a temporary ban of a spammer will only do more harm than good. He will spam more in order to get their points up. This will mean more spam and thats what we dont want


your second point regarding the spammers makes sense... Don't worry. The site is being run by very able and smart admins who won't do anything without first thinking about it carefully.
SharKay
Is it Point for Topics or Points for Replys to Topics...or both...guess at this point I am confused...and am not really sure how many points or posts you need....

What if you have to go away for 1 week or 2 weeks and you post that you will be gone ....but also what if you pc is down...
Bondings
SharKay wrote:
Is it Point for Topics or Points for Replys to Topics...or both...guess at this point I am confused...and am not really sure how many points or posts you need....

What if you have to go away for 1 week or 2 weeks and you post that you will be gone ....but also what if you pc is down...

You get Points for every non-spam post. 1Point is deducted every day. 45Points is the maximum. So you can easily go away for a month without losing your account.
tidruG
SharKay wrote:
Is it Point for Topics or Points for Replys to Topics...or both...guess at this point I am confused...and am not really sure how many points or posts you need....

What if you have to go away for 1 week or 2 weeks and you post that you will be gone ....but also what if you pc is down...


you get points for posts.. any posts (whether they're new topics or replies) And don't worry about your hosting going away if you don;t post for a week or two... You can have a max of 45 points (as of now), and that means you have a minimum of 45 days to continue hosting before you get into trouble... and besides, Bondings only cancels your account after your points get reduced to -20 (which gives you a 20 day grace period)... that's more than sufficient time.

PS: I think the 20 day grace perdiod is only for users that are generally active, so remain active Very Happy
Monkeydog
Well i'm glad I don't have to worry much if I go away Razz
unless of course I lost my internet for a few months Crying or Very sad
Potternet
I agree, when people post they can get theier application approved and then the next day they post some trash and the next day. So they hardly even spend 5 minutes on the site.

A better way is to set a set number of post a day, or in a week, though i cant imagine leaving this site and i am not lying, and the people are good, they actually reply and remain active!
simplyw00x
I think that the current '5 posts to host' system is great, but there needs to be more incentive to post, and to post well (to attract other members). Perhaps:

  • On sign-up, members receive little space and bandwidth
  • All posts can be voted +/- on
  • Combinations of + votes and posts (maybe posts for bandwidth, + votes for space) grant extra features, but they are lost if the points drop below 0
  • Harsh (or, failing that, existent) sssystem for dealing with spammers. Like banning them. I mean, they can always re-register...


Just some ideas...
Bondings
simplyw00x wrote:
I think that the current '5 posts to host' system is great, but there needs to be more incentive to post, and to post well (to attract other members). Perhaps:

  • On sign-up, members receive little space and bandwidth
  • All posts can be voted +/- on
  • Combinations of + votes and posts (maybe posts for bandwidth, + votes for space) grant extra features, but they are lost if the points drop below 0
  • Harsh (or, failing that, existent) sssystem for dealing with spammers. Like banning them. I mean, they can always re-register...


Just some ideas...

I don't like the different-plans-hosting. Everyone should get the same thing, imo.

About the harsh dealing with spammers. I started to immediately ban the worst spammers recently.
n0obie4life
Ban Nomimation Smile
Kit
I agree with a private way [private means non public] way of reporting posts that you believe are blatant spam.

If you are in the mood for a mod [if you possibly can be without being insane...] There are several report post addons available. This make the moderaters task less difficult.
tidruG
A report add-on would be a good idea... Howeverm it will greatly increase the number of reports... let's see what Bondings and the other admins think... however, as of now, if you notice that a user is spamming excessively or is flaming, send a PM to one of the mods (that's what I did before I became a Mod)
babumuchhala
tidrug wrote:
however, as of now, if you notice that a user is spamming excessively or is flaming, send a PM to one of the mods

Ya am doin the same but PMing is a little bit of time consuming and thats why a little less efficient

Also as u said reporting will make ur mailboxes full in no time. Thats its drawback Surprised
Devil
why not just make a small topic where everyone reports a spammer ,

they should also provide links to the posts, then any mod who is online will take action , that would be easy Razz
tidruG
Devil wrote:
why not just make a small topic where everyone reports a spammer ,

they should also provide links to the posts, then any mod who is online will take action , that would be easy Razz


It's not a bad idea. However, I'm afraid people are going to spam that as well. I think we should probably just add a forum for reporting spam/flaming, and keep it specifically for reporting spam/flaming only. All other questions regarding frihost should be deleted, or moved if the mods are in a better mood. Very Happy

What sayest thou, Bondings and Morpheus and James and the other admins/mod/users?
n0obie4life
Warning by PM is difficult to track. Thats one thing Smile.
orno
1) setup a report system
2) get spam-moderators: these guys will handle only spam reports and can leave the rest of the moderation to the other moderators
Devil
tidrug wrote:
Devil wrote:
why not just make a small topic where everyone reports a spammer ,

they should also provide links to the posts, then any mod who is online will take action , that would be easy Razz


It's not a bad idea. However, I'm afraid people are going to spam that as well. I think we should probably just add a forum for reporting spam/flaming, and keep it specifically for reporting spam/flaming only. All other questions regarding frihost should be deleted, or moved if the mods are in a better mood. Very Happy

What sayest thou, Bondings and Morpheus and James and the other admins/mod/users?


trust me this will work , i have handled many freehosting forums before ,even bigger then this forum , this system will work

cuz no one else will report the same thing ,cuz another user has already posted a spammer , and the members can read it in the forum ,

but if u use a report post button ,or the pm system , they wont work and cuz more problems , cuz others dont wont know who has been reported ,

u will endup getting 100 pms for one spammer , the same goes for the report button, it will spamm ur email .

i acutally banned one user for reporting too much posts in one forum Razz
tidruG
Yes, but the more reports we get about one user/post, the more serious we'll know it is... but that's only if we're desperately looking for one good thing out of getting multiple reports for one spam post.

I also didn't mind the idea of having Spam-Moderators. But it'll not be too easy to implement. You'll need to provide details on how exactly you think they should function. Apart from that, I can't picture too many people being too enthusiastic about just looking for spam Very Happy
Kit
tidrug wrote:
Yes, but the more reports we get about one user/post, the more serious we'll know it is... but that's only if we're desperately looking for one good thing out of getting multiple reports for one spam post.

I also didn't mind the idea of having Spam-Moderators. But it'll not be too easy to implement. You'll need to provide details on how exactly you think they should function. Apart from that, I can't picture too many people being too enthusiastic about just looking for spam Very Happy


The scariest thing is there are people ut there who actaully enjoy this type of job. It makes them feel important. Actually the majority of moderation is to find illegal posts which mostly consist of spam.
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