I'm starting this topic because I hope to meet other tarot card readers here at frihost. Let's talk anything about tarot cards. This post is just my introduction. My next post is an actual example of the type of writing I hope to add or see added here.
Learning and Reading Tarot Cards
When Aleister Crowley designed the Thoth Tarot deck, he designed each image to reflect his wisdom and knowledge gained through his initiatic experiences with the Golden Dawn and the A.'.A.'. systems of magickal training. He included in these images also the collected wisdoms of many theological teachings and philosophies from around the world. Through his knowledge he was able to include qabalistic knowledge, magickal symbolism, psychological value, and mystical wisdom into each of the tarot symbols. That's why when looking at the cards he designed and Lady Freda Harris drew and painted, I came to the conclusion that every card was capable of answering every question there was.
As a professional tarot reader I get asked questions all day long. Some more mundane than others, and some far more common than others. The most common question I get asked is "Does he/she really love me?" And in these readings, especially around the New Year holiday, the 7 of Cups often showed up.
About this card's design, Crowley wrote :
This card refers to the Seven, Netzach, in the suit of Water. Here recurs the
invariable weakness arising from lack of balance; also, the card is governed by
Venus in Scorpio. Her dignity is not good in this Sign; one is reminded that Venus is the planet of Copper, "external splendour and internal corruption". The Lotuses have become poisonous, looking like tiger-lilies; and, instead of water, green slime issues from them and overflows, making the Sea a malarious morass. Venus redoubles the influence of the number Seven.
The cups are iridescent, carrying out the same idea.
They are arranged as two descending triangles interlaced above the lowest cup,
which is very much larger than the rest.
This card is almost the "evil and averse" image of the Six; it is a wholesome reminder of the fatal ease with which a Sacrament may be profaned and prostituted. Lose direct touch with Kether, the Highest; diverge never so little from the delicate balance of the Middle Pillar; at once the holiest mysteries of Nature become the obscene and shameful secrets of a guilty conscience.
He states also:
The Seven of Cups is called Debauch. This is one of the worst ideas that one can
have; its mode is poison, its goal madness. It represents the delusion of Delirium Tremens and drug addiction; it represents the sinking into the mire of false pleasure. There is something almost suicidal in this card. It is particularly bad because there is nothing whatever to balance it-no strong planet to hold it up. Venus goes after Venus, and Earth is churned into the scorpion morass.
Generally speaking, this card is about Illusions. If you look at the Rider-Waite version of this card you see a magician creating side-show illusions in the clouds, with the seven cups floating in the air and strange creatures and objects appearing out of them. Crowley's design has simply 7 cups floating in the air, in the shape of the lower seven sephiroth (spheres) of the Tree of Life. This signifies the created world without consideration for the higher realm, the "heavenly" or god realm. To a Buddhist, this is the world of Samsara, the realm of illusion - the lesser Maya of our day to day lives which confuse us. Those things we imagine are important, but in truth nothing is so important.
In a relationship reading I take this card often to mean something like infatuation. The illusion of love that really isn't. So, inspired by this I developed a new tarot spread I call "Love, Lust, or Illusion?" in order to help determine the true nature of a relationship between two people.
The design of the spread looks like this.
1........2
3...5...4
.....6
.....7
Card 1 is how she feels in the relationship.
Card 2 is how he feels in the relationship.
Card 3 is why she feels the way she does.
Card 4 is why he feels the way he does.
Card 5 is how everyone else feels about the relationship.
Card 6 is what the relationship actually is.
Card 7 is the true potential (outcome) of the relationship
As a professional tarot reader I get asked questions all day long. Some more mundane than others, and some far more common than others. The most common question I get asked is "Does he/she really love me?" And in these readings, especially around the New Year holiday, the 7 of Cups often showed up.
About this card's design, Crowley wrote :
This card refers to the Seven, Netzach, in the suit of Water. Here recurs the
invariable weakness arising from lack of balance; also, the card is governed by
Venus in Scorpio. Her dignity is not good in this Sign; one is reminded that Venus is the planet of Copper, "external splendour and internal corruption". The Lotuses have become poisonous, looking like tiger-lilies; and, instead of water, green slime issues from them and overflows, making the Sea a malarious morass. Venus redoubles the influence of the number Seven.
The cups are iridescent, carrying out the same idea.
They are arranged as two descending triangles interlaced above the lowest cup,
which is very much larger than the rest.
This card is almost the "evil and averse" image of the Six; it is a wholesome reminder of the fatal ease with which a Sacrament may be profaned and prostituted. Lose direct touch with Kether, the Highest; diverge never so little from the delicate balance of the Middle Pillar; at once the holiest mysteries of Nature become the obscene and shameful secrets of a guilty conscience.
He states also:
The Seven of Cups is called Debauch. This is one of the worst ideas that one can
have; its mode is poison, its goal madness. It represents the delusion of Delirium Tremens and drug addiction; it represents the sinking into the mire of false pleasure. There is something almost suicidal in this card. It is particularly bad because there is nothing whatever to balance it-no strong planet to hold it up. Venus goes after Venus, and Earth is churned into the scorpion morass.
Generally speaking, this card is about Illusions. If you look at the Rider-Waite version of this card you see a magician creating side-show illusions in the clouds, with the seven cups floating in the air and strange creatures and objects appearing out of them. Crowley's design has simply 7 cups floating in the air, in the shape of the lower seven sephiroth (spheres) of the Tree of Life. This signifies the created world without consideration for the higher realm, the "heavenly" or god realm. To a Buddhist, this is the world of Samsara, the realm of illusion - the lesser Maya of our day to day lives which confuse us. Those things we imagine are important, but in truth nothing is so important.
In a relationship reading I take this card often to mean something like infatuation. The illusion of love that really isn't. So, inspired by this I developed a new tarot spread I call "Love, Lust, or Illusion?" in order to help determine the true nature of a relationship between two people.
The design of the spread looks like this.
1........2
3...5...4
.....6
.....7
Card 1 is how she feels in the relationship.
Card 2 is how he feels in the relationship.
Card 3 is why she feels the way she does.
Card 4 is why he feels the way he does.
Card 5 is how everyone else feels about the relationship.
Card 6 is what the relationship actually is.
Card 7 is the true potential (outcome) of the relationship
I mostly avoid tarot cards. To me, it seems that relying on paper for your fate seems... silly. But they are definately entertaining and good for a joke.
The only trick to tarot cards is that you have to believe in them, because if you believe in them, you can take their broad and easily-applied generalizations and apply them to your life.
The only trick to tarot cards is that you have to believe in them, because if you believe in them, you can take their broad and easily-applied generalizations and apply them to your life.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| I mostly avoid tarot cards. To me, it seems that relying on paper for your fate seems... silly. But they are definately entertaining and good for a joke.
The only trick to tarot cards is that you have to believe in them, because if you believe in them, you can take their broad and easily-applied generalizations and apply them to your life. |
You "mostly" avoid them? I guess that about describes your statement, because you failed to avoid letting something you could not add to just pass you by. Instead, you went out of your way in an effort to detract from this topic.
Thank you for your time.
I want to learn Tarot, but my mom is afraid I will let evil spirits into our house. Kind of odd, but I really want to learn :]]
| lookatme wrote: |
| I want to learn Tarot, but my mom is afraid I will let evil spirits into our house. Kind of odd, but I really want to learn :]] |
If you still live at home, you should do what your mother asks for now. You could learn on the internet and books, but the real learning comes when you get a deck for your own. It's a relationship with the cards that makes it all work for you.
When I was younger I played with them a lot. At first only the major arcana, but after a bit of practice, I found using the whole deck fairly easy. The Crowley deck left me cold and I used the Waite deck exclusively. Still have the deck somewhere, but I've pretty much left it behind.
Right now I own 8 decks. Crowley's Thoth deck is my favorite so far. It's hard to learn tarot using just a pip card style like Crowley did. Waite's pictures for the minors probably are very useful in that regard... but once you learn the Qabalah and other languages of the cards, they actually can be distracting.
I just received three new decks in the mail. I've decided to do a reading with one of them, The Alcohol Tarot (available through Tarot Garden).
Now the main reason I am bringing this up is that my reading style has become under question. That is, I am questioning myself (friends note that I have a tendency to 'second guess' myself). So I am going to describe what I mean and then get to the question and reading, which is very relevant.
I first learned Tarot with the RWS (Robin-Waite-Smith) deck. Then I picked up several decks beyond that, always learning from each LWB (Little White Book) new meanings attached to each card - but never 'forgetting' the meanings I'd developed. Not to mention the life experiences I'd gained and attached to each card. I've used (in no particular order here) The Mythic Tarot, The Witches Tarot, The Medicine Woman Tarot, The Cat People Tarot, The Book of Thoth, The Arthurian Tarot, Hanson-Roberts, The Golden Dawn Tarot, and others. Now I have these three tarot to add to my list once I get to using them.
Now, my style of reading basically involves all I've learned and qabalistic understandings. The part I began to question was when I started reading some of the threads in the Thoth forum on Aeclectic Tarot's website. I have noted that there is some debate to the notion on that forum and forums discussing other decks and things, about which deck you use actually has an influence on what the card in question means. This seems relatively counter to my thinking. The way I look at it, each developer has merely added to my repertoire of meanings, or adjusted them to some degree. For example, Crowley's take on Judgment (being The Aeon) that this card represents a "new current" doesn't remove from the RWS take that it represents "awakening to a new level". One paradigm merely suggests it is a natural flux (or super-natural if you must) and the other sees it as a full shift. But it is still the same to me.
So I am using the Alcohol Tarot tonight... it is a non-traditional tarot deck. It uses Beer for Cups, Lager for Wands, Spirits for Swords, and Wine for Disks. The Trumps are named the same, but the imagery of the cards are photographic, and not at all like you might expect. For example, the Fool is a "Drunken Fool" in the back of the bar sucking on his right big toe. The Magician is a colorfully dressed bartender. The Chariot is a highlighted young man headed towards the front of the establishment... probably too drunk to drive. And so on. I'm choosing this because of the non-traditional scenery of the deck will demonstrate my "universal" model of interpreting cards.
My question: Is my method I use to model my interpretive insights a hindrance to my reading, psychic, intuitive capacity?
I use a simple three card spread, past/present/future, for this question.
1: The Sun shows a group of young men at a campground.
2: The High Priestess shows a lovely woman in blue with a glass of wine looking at a rose bush.
3: Two of Spirits (swords) - two tall shots on a bar.
Now the Sun is about bringing things out in the light. And I notice these men are drinking jugs of water if anything. The sun in the distance is either rising or setting. So this is either the morning after or the afternoon before any party might take place. This shows good times, good relationships. A happy place.
The High Priestess is the intuitive knowledge, the subconscious self. She is the divine feminine.
Two of Spirits is about weighing the balance, restoring peace by the balance of opposites. This is all in the mind.
I could assume that this wasn't a significant enought spread for my question, but I think it did pertain. I think it is telling me that this second guessing is the two of swords itself, and it is all in my mind. Any tarot readers out there having clarification I might want to add?
Now the main reason I am bringing this up is that my reading style has become under question. That is, I am questioning myself (friends note that I have a tendency to 'second guess' myself). So I am going to describe what I mean and then get to the question and reading, which is very relevant.
I first learned Tarot with the RWS (Robin-Waite-Smith) deck. Then I picked up several decks beyond that, always learning from each LWB (Little White Book) new meanings attached to each card - but never 'forgetting' the meanings I'd developed. Not to mention the life experiences I'd gained and attached to each card. I've used (in no particular order here) The Mythic Tarot, The Witches Tarot, The Medicine Woman Tarot, The Cat People Tarot, The Book of Thoth, The Arthurian Tarot, Hanson-Roberts, The Golden Dawn Tarot, and others. Now I have these three tarot to add to my list once I get to using them.
Now, my style of reading basically involves all I've learned and qabalistic understandings. The part I began to question was when I started reading some of the threads in the Thoth forum on Aeclectic Tarot's website. I have noted that there is some debate to the notion on that forum and forums discussing other decks and things, about which deck you use actually has an influence on what the card in question means. This seems relatively counter to my thinking. The way I look at it, each developer has merely added to my repertoire of meanings, or adjusted them to some degree. For example, Crowley's take on Judgment (being The Aeon) that this card represents a "new current" doesn't remove from the RWS take that it represents "awakening to a new level". One paradigm merely suggests it is a natural flux (or super-natural if you must) and the other sees it as a full shift. But it is still the same to me.
So I am using the Alcohol Tarot tonight... it is a non-traditional tarot deck. It uses Beer for Cups, Lager for Wands, Spirits for Swords, and Wine for Disks. The Trumps are named the same, but the imagery of the cards are photographic, and not at all like you might expect. For example, the Fool is a "Drunken Fool" in the back of the bar sucking on his right big toe. The Magician is a colorfully dressed bartender. The Chariot is a highlighted young man headed towards the front of the establishment... probably too drunk to drive. And so on. I'm choosing this because of the non-traditional scenery of the deck will demonstrate my "universal" model of interpreting cards.
My question: Is my method I use to model my interpretive insights a hindrance to my reading, psychic, intuitive capacity?
I use a simple three card spread, past/present/future, for this question.
1: The Sun shows a group of young men at a campground.
2: The High Priestess shows a lovely woman in blue with a glass of wine looking at a rose bush.
3: Two of Spirits (swords) - two tall shots on a bar.
Now the Sun is about bringing things out in the light. And I notice these men are drinking jugs of water if anything. The sun in the distance is either rising or setting. So this is either the morning after or the afternoon before any party might take place. This shows good times, good relationships. A happy place.
The High Priestess is the intuitive knowledge, the subconscious self. She is the divine feminine.
Two of Spirits is about weighing the balance, restoring peace by the balance of opposites. This is all in the mind.
I could assume that this wasn't a significant enought spread for my question, but I think it did pertain. I think it is telling me that this second guessing is the two of swords itself, and it is all in my mind. Any tarot readers out there having clarification I might want to add?
I dabbles with Tarot (major and minor arcana)for a number of years and used to use it as my party piece.
Regardless of whether they draw upon any form of other-worldly influence or not, if you find a good book and learn the meanings of each card (in relation to each other too) it can be fun and suprisingly accurate.
I also found casting bones to be just as good (if not better), easier to learn (for me anyway) and something classed as more out of the ordinary in these blase' times.
Its amazing just how much detail can be derived by the way three or four bones land in a number of castings.
I don't claim it is supernatural or anything, I just approached it logically taking ithe 'instructions' from GOOD books on the subject. And voila the reading were generally accurate, interesting and above all entertaining.
I was toying with the idea of learning to use Runes but never got around to it.
Regardless of whether they draw upon any form of other-worldly influence or not, if you find a good book and learn the meanings of each card (in relation to each other too) it can be fun and suprisingly accurate.
I also found casting bones to be just as good (if not better), easier to learn (for me anyway) and something classed as more out of the ordinary in these blase' times.
Its amazing just how much detail can be derived by the way three or four bones land in a number of castings.
I don't claim it is supernatural or anything, I just approached it logically taking ithe 'instructions' from GOOD books on the subject. And voila the reading were generally accurate, interesting and above all entertaining.
I was toying with the idea of learning to use Runes but never got around to it.
I'm a tarot reader. I do mostly what is classed as tarot counselling, which is a very effective way to use them.
I don't agree with Aleister Crowley, so I've never had anything to do with his cards.
Every tarot deck is different. Don't generalise with them. Don't take the meaning from one deck and try to put it onto another deck, it doesn't work. Why would there be a market for so many different decks if this were so.
The best way to learn about each deck is to spend time with it, meditate on the cards - they're great for meditation - study each card, let it talk to you. When you give a reading, just say what you see or feel. Don't read them as seperate cards, see what the ones next to them show, this can stregthen or mitagate a card.
It gets me so angry when people say the Tarot is evil. They aren't. They are just images which are used as a focus to awaken a persons own psychic ability.
I love the Mythic tarot deck. My newest is Llewellyn deck. They're based on Welsh mythology. I'm disappointed with them though. Only the major arcana is based on mythology. The minor arcana and court cards have only keywords. I went to the Llewellyn website and let them know I wasn't happy with them. They didn't bother replying.
I'm thinking of designing my own tarot cards, based on Welsh or Celtic mythology.
I don't agree with Aleister Crowley, so I've never had anything to do with his cards.
Every tarot deck is different. Don't generalise with them. Don't take the meaning from one deck and try to put it onto another deck, it doesn't work. Why would there be a market for so many different decks if this were so.
The best way to learn about each deck is to spend time with it, meditate on the cards - they're great for meditation - study each card, let it talk to you. When you give a reading, just say what you see or feel. Don't read them as seperate cards, see what the ones next to them show, this can stregthen or mitagate a card.
It gets me so angry when people say the Tarot is evil. They aren't. They are just images which are used as a focus to awaken a persons own psychic ability.
I love the Mythic tarot deck. My newest is Llewellyn deck. They're based on Welsh mythology. I'm disappointed with them though. Only the major arcana is based on mythology. The minor arcana and court cards have only keywords. I went to the Llewellyn website and let them know I wasn't happy with them. They didn't bother replying.
I'm thinking of designing my own tarot cards, based on Welsh or Celtic mythology.
I don't believe that Tarot cards really can predict the future. That is because of my religion and the fact that numerous studies have been done on tarot readers and they couldn't really predict.
| Nerdlings wrote: |
| I don't believe that Tarot cards really can predict the future. That is because of my religion and the fact that numerous studies have been done on tarot readers and they couldn't really predict. |
I've done accurate predictions whilst doing tarot readings. One of them was quite funny. I was doing a reading for a friend, and I asked him if his girlfriend could be pregnant. He said no way, but I couldn't get past the fact that there was going to be a birth. When I saw him the following week he was jubilent. Unbeknown to him, his girlfriend had let his male and female rabbit be together for a few minutes, and there had been a litter rabbits born during the week.
Tarot reading is not only about predictions. Its also about advice, and I've given a reading that saved a marriage. I was reading for a lady, who wanted advice on which path to take. I did a reading following two different paths. If she took one path, her marriage would be in trouble. I found out about a year later that round about the time of the reading her husband was considering if it was worth going on with the marriage. Thanks to the reading I had done, the lady realised the the effect she was having on the marriage, and made a conscious effort to change. I knew nothing about any problems, and I don't think the lady in question realised the effect she was having on their relationship. the reading I gave was not a relationship one.
| woundedhealer wrote: |
| I'm a tarot reader. I do mostly what is classed as tarot counselling, which is a very effective way to use them. |
I'm a professional tarot reader myself. I agree, the most effective method of giving a sitting is as a form of counseling.
| Quote: |
| I don't agree with Aleister Crowley, so I've never had anything to do with his cards. |
Since the Thoth forum on another site was the one I was bringing this topic up from, you really can't say you are 100% sure of being qualified to give this next statement of yours:
| Quote: |
| Every tarot deck is different. Don't generalise with them. Don't take the meaning from one deck and try to put it onto another deck, it doesn't work. Why would there be a market for so many different decks if this were so. |
Which, as you would be sure of from my post before, I don't agree with at all. I've been reading Tarot for 25 years. Out of all the decks I have ever used (listed in the above post) I currently only own eight of them. Out of each one, the "meanings" ascribed to them are all basically the same. Even Crowley ascribes the same general keyword meanings. For example, The Empress is still Love, Beauty, Happiness, Pleasure, and all the other things Venus implies. Why is there a market for so many decks? Because it's a highly addictive collectible for many people. The more the merrier. And some readers, such as yourself, prefer certain flavors in their cards - but notice that all the really good decks you own all adhere to the same rules. Venus is always green, baby, always green. Mercury, orange. Air (the Element, not the sky in some pictures) is yellow (ie the Fool) and there's also an animal (commonly one that is more than just domestic) with the Fool. Why? Because it isn't up to publishers what the Tarot symbolises, it is up to publishers to adhere to the traditional structure and find a way to make a new theme work.
| Quote: |
| The best way to learn about each deck is to spend time with it, meditate on the cards - they're great for meditation - study each card, let it talk to you. When you give a reading, just say what you see or feel. Don't read them as separate cards, see what the ones next to them show, this can strengthen or mitigate a card. |
This is correct - especially look for elemental dignities.
| Quote: |
| It gets me so angry when people say the Tarot is evil. They aren't. They are just images which are used as a focus to awaken a persons own psychic ability. |
I can relate, except I don't waste my energy with anger on such mainly local matters in my life - my real anger is concerning life or death situations. I get curious as to why, or hurt at the worse, when people say they disagree with Aleister Crowley, and yet they prove quite certainly that they've never read a single thing he's written. Oh, they've read plenty that is allegedly about him, but nothing by him.
| Quote: |
| I love the Mythic tarot deck. My newest is Llewellyn deck. They're based on Welsh mythology. I'm disappointed with them though. Only the major arcana is based on mythology. The minor arcana and court cards have only keywords. |
I don't understand what you mean. I've looked at the Llewellyn Tarot and its Welsh mythology - but it is a Rider-Waite clone, it does not use a pip style minor arcana. For example, the three of wands looks nearly identical to the RWS deck.
| Quote: |
| I'm thinking of designing my own tarot cards, based on Welsh or Celtic mythology. |
I would like to see that.
| Nerdlings wrote: |
| I don't believe that Tarot cards really can predict the future. That is because of my religion and the fact that numerous studies have been done on tarot readers and they couldn't really predict. |
Here's an example of a blog journal entry from a short while ago:
7:01 AM - "This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius...."
Today's card is Aeon.
I woke up early this morning. That's good! That's better than I have been doing lately. And even before my coffee was finished brewing I got a message from a client of mine telling me that one of my predictions had come true, and then I received a new client who simply wanted a dream interpretation.... the poor girl, dreamed about a decapitation. She needed to get back to sleep so that she would be ready to go back to work in the morning - which is really what the dream dealt with, stressed at work. So I talked her down, examined some possible implications of the dream, then taught her to re-invent the ending so that the image would stop disturbing her.
Anyway, with permission, I am going to share the prediction I made for one client and how it came to pass. (Edited for privacy sake)
Thelemic Divinations 4 U:
The next six cards are the future events that you can find if you need them. The first three are pretty close (don't know exactly, but soon) the 9 of wands, which is strength and eventual success of all your planning. 7 of wands which is valour, an approaching struggle ... you know, both of those cards mention taking a stand on an issue. and the next card is
Client:
That sounds positive.
Thelemic Divinations 4 U:
the 9 of swords.
Client:
Swords is rarely good, right?
Thelemic Divinations 4 U:
That's true. swords are all in the head, it usually means troubles or worries. And next to wands it generally is not good news. This is again... well, the 9 of swords is a lesser version of the Hanged Man, the self-sacrifice. So that theme will continue. You will continue to be hard at work. But those wands give you strength and encouragement. Also, I foresee that this will become a personal issue. You know: any publicity is good publicity. That's what my HGA whispered to tell you. Remember that when you feel like losing hope.
That's what's coming ahead for you. This is not the controversy of the 4 of cups (which is gossip) this is Newspaper stuff. There you go. The local community is shocked! And you will have to put a lot of energy into not looking terrible. But any publicity is good publicity.
Client:
As i have always said, "Controversy sells".
Thelemic Divinations 4 U:
yes. I think a crime takes place and you are by association implicated and this makes waves, but you are not charged or guilty, it is just association. Like the crowd or something.
Client:
That's a little unnerving.
Thelemic Divinations 4 U:
The 9 of swords is unnerving. In my deck it is nine bloody swords floating in the air, dripping crimson fluid like tears. This is pain for sure. But those wands give you strength and hope, and give me more specific insight into cause or how you play into it. You are taking a public voice. A stand.
[conversation deleted for privacy content... just a few exchanges where she names people that she thought the words I chose had pointed to - to which I suggested wasn't intended or likely. It turns out I was wrong, they were the right names. Go figure. But I didn't discourage her from finding this information, I merely suggested that I wasn't concerned about the names.]
Well. Do not be discouraged when this hits the press. When you are asked to speak your mind, know that you are doing the right thing.
=====
So what happened, and some names are not being released to the press, my client is a co-producer (I think that's the title) of a local television show which showcases the bands of her night club's venue... and there was apparently some nudity involved in the broadcast. The brief nudity and allegedly lewd conduct was in the front row audience of a live act. Odd how apparently this particular episode of the show had been aired "five times before" and had never gotten the trouble before. So now she's all in the press defending free speech and artists in her area. And honestly, it doesn't seem to be a big big issue after all and I think this is going to raise the roof on club attendance for her - which was my point.
So, aside from the troubles, good for her! I like her and I like seeing success. As to the client who was losing sleep? I hope she is doing better now. Good for both of them for choosing me!!!
O.o that cool tahnx
A true Tarot deck consists of 78 cards. These cards can be divided into five seperate groups. The first group is called The Major Arcana, or Trumps, and the other four groups, the Suits, are called The Minor Arcana (or minors or pips). The reason for this division makes much sense when we view the cards as psychological and spiritual tools.
Achetypes, as defined by Carl Jung who coined the term, are the original models or types after which other similar things are patterned. In Jungian psychology, an Archtype is an inherited pattern of thought or symbolic imagery derived from the past collective experience and present in the individual unconscious. The first group of cards, 22 in all, are the archetypes.
In actuallity, all 78 cards represent archetypes of particular human conditions, but the Trumps represent the archetypes of psychological or spiritual growth. So they are very important cards to study and understand.
The Minor cards are divided up into four suits and also each are represenitive of archetypal concepts. The four suits are Wands, Cups, Swords, and Disks. Wands are symbolic of fire, and so represent the archetype of things, the energy behind life, the will. Cups are symbolic of water, and so represent the emotions. Swords, air, represent the mind, the intellect or idea of things, and written communication. Disks represent the physical presence of things in and of themselves.
One way to relate to the four suits is to think of creation itself,and the more specific your imagining this concept the better. So lets pick a specific creation - a cookie.
First, there's the concept of "cookie" itself. Cookie exists whether you ever bake one or not. It exists as a Will in this Universe, meant to manifest through the other suits until it becomes an actual physical disk someone can call "a cookie" and eat. Let's call this concept of "cookie" the Ace of Wands.
Now, in order to become an actual cookie, the concept must transpose through the other four suits. So now that someone has gotten this "cookie" inspiration, they have an emotional attachment to it. This is the suit of cups.
Following the suit of cups is swords, the mind - the planning, the recipe formation. And then, finaly, the sweet little disk itself exists and you get a cookie.
Ah, but it isn't really as simple as that sounds. That's why each suit has ten numbered cards and four court cards (we'll discuss the courts seperately later). It's these ten cards in each suit that describes the process of actuallization that a thing goes through as it moves from Original Concept to Physical Presence. And to understand these ten numbers, from Ace to Ten, it is best if we look to the Qabalah of the West and the meanings given each of the ten spheres of the Tree of Life in that study.
The ten numbers represent the ten processes of emenation. There are actually more ways to look at the Tree of Life than a process of emanation - one could, for example, view the ten numbers as ten stages of the development of conscious awareness, or the ten levels of conscious awareness that an adept progresses through, or ten worldviews any one of us might have, or there are any number of ways to use the Tree of Life to map our explorations in life - but for now, let's keep it simple with the process of emanation. Learn the qabalah of emanations and apply that knowledge to the four suits as you read the cards.
I'm not going into too much detail in this post about the numbers or the trumps, but look for further posts on these subjects.
Achetypes, as defined by Carl Jung who coined the term, are the original models or types after which other similar things are patterned. In Jungian psychology, an Archtype is an inherited pattern of thought or symbolic imagery derived from the past collective experience and present in the individual unconscious. The first group of cards, 22 in all, are the archetypes.
In actuallity, all 78 cards represent archetypes of particular human conditions, but the Trumps represent the archetypes of psychological or spiritual growth. So they are very important cards to study and understand.
The Minor cards are divided up into four suits and also each are represenitive of archetypal concepts. The four suits are Wands, Cups, Swords, and Disks. Wands are symbolic of fire, and so represent the archetype of things, the energy behind life, the will. Cups are symbolic of water, and so represent the emotions. Swords, air, represent the mind, the intellect or idea of things, and written communication. Disks represent the physical presence of things in and of themselves.
One way to relate to the four suits is to think of creation itself,and the more specific your imagining this concept the better. So lets pick a specific creation - a cookie.
First, there's the concept of "cookie" itself. Cookie exists whether you ever bake one or not. It exists as a Will in this Universe, meant to manifest through the other suits until it becomes an actual physical disk someone can call "a cookie" and eat. Let's call this concept of "cookie" the Ace of Wands.
Now, in order to become an actual cookie, the concept must transpose through the other four suits. So now that someone has gotten this "cookie" inspiration, they have an emotional attachment to it. This is the suit of cups.
Following the suit of cups is swords, the mind - the planning, the recipe formation. And then, finaly, the sweet little disk itself exists and you get a cookie.
Ah, but it isn't really as simple as that sounds. That's why each suit has ten numbered cards and four court cards (we'll discuss the courts seperately later). It's these ten cards in each suit that describes the process of actuallization that a thing goes through as it moves from Original Concept to Physical Presence. And to understand these ten numbers, from Ace to Ten, it is best if we look to the Qabalah of the West and the meanings given each of the ten spheres of the Tree of Life in that study.
The ten numbers represent the ten processes of emenation. There are actually more ways to look at the Tree of Life than a process of emanation - one could, for example, view the ten numbers as ten stages of the development of conscious awareness, or the ten levels of conscious awareness that an adept progresses through, or ten worldviews any one of us might have, or there are any number of ways to use the Tree of Life to map our explorations in life - but for now, let's keep it simple with the process of emanation. Learn the qabalah of emanations and apply that knowledge to the four suits as you read the cards.
I'm not going into too much detail in this post about the numbers or the trumps, but look for further posts on these subjects.
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| Since the Thoth forum on another site was the one I was bringing this topic up from, you really can't say you are 100% sure of being qualified to give this next statement of yours:
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Which, as you would be sure of from my post before, I don't agree with at all. I've been reading Tarot for 25 years. Out of all the decks I have ever used (listed in the above post) I currently only own eight of them. Out of each one, the "meanings" ascribed to them are all basically the same. Even Crowley ascribes the same general keyword meanings. For example, The Empress is still Love, Beauty, Happiness, Pleasure, and all the other things Venus implies. Why is there a market for so many decks? Because it's a highly addictive collectible for many people. The more the merrier. And some readers, such as yourself, prefer certain flavors in their cards - but notice that all the really good decks you own all adhere to the same rules. Venus is always green, baby, always green. Mercury, orange. Air (the Element, not the sky in some pictures) is yellow (ie the Fool) and there's also an animal (commonly one that is more than just domestic) with the Fool. Why? Because it isn't up to publishers what the Tarot symbolises, it is up to publishers to adhere to the traditional structure and find a way to make a new theme work. |
I'm quite sure about this statement. It is because of the differences that many readers give their clients a choice of decks to read from. I have had a number of different tarot decks and have read about others and they all have subtle differences. Although the general meanings of the major arcana are all very similar, there are still very slight differences. I find these differences are more marked with the court cards and the minor arcana. Venus? Mercury? These are Roman gods, not all decks are based on Roman gods. As far as traditional structure, who can really say what this is. Everyone interperates things differently. The origins of the tarot are unknown, although there are many theories as to their origins. I personally think the most likely answer is that more than one culture used images for divination purposes.
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Quote: I love the Mythic tarot deck. My newest is Llewellyn deck. They're based on Welsh mythology. I'm disappointed with them though. Only the major arcana is based on mythology. The minor arcana and court cards have only keywords. |
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I don't understand what you mean. I've looked at the Llewellyn Tarot and its Welsh mythology - but it is a Rider-Waite clone, it does not use a pip style minor arcana. For example, the three of wands looks nearly identical to the RWS deck. |
Yes the major arcana is based on Welsh mythology, but I still find this disappointing and as I said before, the minor arcana and court cards have only keywords. There are many decks which do not use pip style cards. I've only ever had one deck of Rider-Waite cards, and that is so long ago that I don't remember about them, only that the minor arcana were pip cards or the did not have any readable image.
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| Now the main reason I am bringing this up is that my reading style has become under question. That is, I am questioning myself (friends note that I have a tendency to 'second guess' myself). So I am going to describe what I mean and then get to the question and reading, which is very relevant.
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When I read this, I mistakenly thought you were relatively new to the tarot. I had quickly read through all the posts here, not totally registering who said what. I thought I was being of help to someone still learning. If I have offended you, please accept my apologies.
Just because we see things differenly, does not mean to say any one way is right, other ways are wrong. It's whatever suits each of us best that counts.
No offense taken.
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