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REAL music





shr3dd
does anyone out there still listen to actual music for the artists' musicianship? im not talking about rap (its not music) or almost any mainstream act. im talking about bands with real talent and not just a large trend-based crowd following them. I'm into the virtuostic talent such as dream theater, joe satriani, steve vai, pink floyd, rush, or even a band such as trivium or shadows fall. is there anyone out there that still listens to people with talent? and no playing a 3 chord song and screaming over it is not talent
Zibé
some metal and Hardcore bands have a real talent :
Cephalic carnage ; Dillinger escape plan ; Psyopus ;
Necrophagist...

And I love Wolfunkind, a french band who mix jazz, ska and metal.
nickhaw
well yah mainstream music really annoys me, not all of its bad but its just so over played and they all sellout. but hers what i like... the faint, dcfc, the postal service, the anniversery, ben folds and ben folds five, just to name a few! not sure if you consider that "good" music but i think there great. Very Happy
nakamaru
Hell yeah I listen to Trivium. I also listen to Cursive and Hot hot heat. I used to listen to My Chemical Romance YEARS AGO before they show up on mtv and people think they know everything about them.
petgraveyard
I FEEL THE SAME WAY!

I can't stand rap and all the HYPE that follows it. And I wont mention any names (*cough*Bevrely Hills - Weezer*cough*) of those bands that play THREE NOTES (not chords, notes!) and everyone throws themselves all over them and they love them so much.

Thank you, there is someone that agrees with me!
nickhaw
people these days like to be told what they want i guess Confused
petgraveyard
nickhaw wrote:
people these days like to be told what they want i guess Confused

Not true, look at some of my posts, I totally disagree with a lot of people with music, and it wont hurt to have a nice healthy argument once in a while!
nickhaw
first of all im not talkign about everyone, and seocndly im not just talking about music and thirdly it is true, i mean really look at fashion... look harder... what do you see. most fads in fashon comes from celebritys who wair something outragoues like once and people eat it all up. but i now think with things like mtv, which only plays certain music, people only have a music base based on what soem producer or vj wants to be played... so there Wink
icugaming
petgraveyard wrote:
I FEEL THE SAME WAY!

I can't stand rap and all the HYPE that follows it. And I wont mention any names (*cough*Bevrely Hills - Weezer*cough*) of those bands that play THREE NOTES (not chords, notes!) and everyone throws themselves all over them and they love them so much.

Thank you, there is someone that agrees with me!


Weezer isn't that bad. Now, I'm a guy who despises mainstream and the like- but they did write a good hook with Beverley Hills. Pinkerton is their only worthwhile album.
Derleth
shr3dd wrote:
im not talking about rap (its not music)
Since when is rap not music?
nickhaw
i think he means todays rap which should not be considered music
Derleth
nickhaw wrote:
i think he means todays rap which should not be considered music
Why not?

If Bob Dylan can be considered music, why not rap?
Monkeydog
since rap has no singing in it...
i usally only listen to things with a good tune to it...i could care less about the lyrics or what languge it is or were it came from.I really like Jazz and Rock always nice tunes :/
Derleth
Monkeydog wrote:
since rap has no singing in it...
Since when does music have to have singing? The vast majority of jazz has no singing.
Scott
While some mainstream music has very little talent, it isn't fair at all for people to make a generalization and say all mainstream music sucks. That is a very pretentious, condescending thing to say. Rap isn't music? That's pretty harsh.


I don't listen to much mainstream music really, but I can still respect it.
diablera
(sorry if i dont use the right words. since english is not my mother language it happens to be a bit harder to explain things)

this is a very funny aseveration: Mainstream musicians are not precisely telentless: Look... do not tell me Joe Satriani is better than The Edge just because he is more like a 'technician' guitarist...

So many young musicians (and not musicians too) think that you have to be really good at technique when playing an instrument to be talented or musically gifted.
<h1>NO</h1>
Really, think of this: King Crimson's front man (and guitarist), Robert Fripp plays really hard and difficult stuff in some of the band's songs, but in some others, he just play two or three chords... and it doesnt mean he's not good at these songs.

besides that, as long as i remember, satriani said once in an interview on TV that one of the guitarists who he admires a lot is THE EDGE, and c'mmon, tell me he's not.

I also have to say it: mmost of 'good technician musicians' were really into make hard and not easy listening music when they were young. That is really OK when you do it with heart, that is the case of Fripp, Brian Eno, Roger Watters, etc. But then you can listen to more recent stuff and it is TOTALLY Different....

BTW, I guess if you like Dream Theater you should first try bands such like:

Can, Banco, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Frank Zappa, Charles Mingus, Decibel, John Zorn, Painkiller, Naked City, Bill Frissell, etc...
nickhaw
scott its not so much mainstream artists dont have talent its just they sellout and get overplayed and become really annoying. Very Happy
icugaming
Good rap = Public Enemy
Bad rap = 50 Cent
Helios
well,


i lsiten to Guns n Roses, iron maiden, metallica(old stuff), the scorpions, and led zeppelin.

Those I really call the masters of their genre and real musicians..
shr3dd
im saying rap isnt music not because of the no singing (rappingin general i think blows though, personal opinion) but because of the lack of anything musical. a looped beat with a short hook isnt music people, its something for these low lifes to display their narcissistic pro-violence "rhymes" that do nothing but degenrate the black youth. to diablera: i think you mean technical guitaists not technician, i understand the english thing though. i think joe satriani is way better than the edge not because he can play a million notes a second, but because of his note choice and songwriting. every note in satriani's music plays an integral part in his songs, the edge isnt the main focus of U2's music (joe satriani is a solo artist) so his note choice just isnt as important so i cannot discern his skill in that area. i do listen to king crimson, bill frisell and many more. you should check out john scofield, its jazz fusion but its good.
tidruG
Bah! you just started this thread about because you were still fired up from the post on the other thread favourite lead singers where you flamed me. Rolling Eyes

Anyways, to each his own opinion... I don't enjoy hip-hop, but I won't be imprudent or stupid enough to say it isn't music. I just don't enjoy it. End of story...

As far as mainstream artists not having talent, are you going to say that RHCP have no talent... the reason they're so acclaimed is because... oh i donno, they did a live concert wearing nothing but socks? Oh, and yeah... Santana doesn't have talent... that's so true... he just does something to the guitar we can't see... possibly he hides a little alien in there... that's why he sounds fantastic. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, I enjoy a lot of artists who're considered mainstream and some that are not.... Pearl Jam, Incubus, etc.
shr3dd
tidrug, i started this thread to find more people who enjoy music for its musical value. take a music class in high school, college, music lessons, and youll learn what truely is music. anything with a looped beat devoid of any melodic or harmonic statement is not music by definition. the masses call it music because people put it on a cd and listen to it. that doesnt make it music. it would be more suitable to call it a beat. when artists incorporate these beats and add something that has actual musical value then it becomes music. i agree with to each his own, but some stuff is just crap. i personally am not too into RHCP but they have talent. their bassist is amazing, i think the rest of the band is mediocre unfortunatly. (if you play bass check out Flea's instructional vids) Santana was awesome, before he started doing pop stuff to make some more money. his old stuff was awesome and he is a damn good player. Pearl Jam and Incubus are quite mainstream, but ive gone a month listening to mainly incubus. i appreciate your sarcasm to get your point across, but as a learned musician i just hate it when people who study this stuff dont get any recognition for it and those who pick up a guitar and play 4 chords get fame and fortune. im in no way saying a simple song cant be good, look at ACDC, most of the riffs are very similar and very simple, but a good musician wont leave it at that, hence the solos. im not saying a band has to solo to be good or talented, but some display of musical knowledge is definitely for the better.
tidruG
shr3dd wrote:
tidrug, i started this thread to find more people who enjoy music for its musical value. take a music class in high school, college, music lessons, and youll learn what truely is music. anything with a looped beat devoid of any melodic or harmonic statement is not music by definition. the masses call it music because people put it on a cd and listen to it. that doesnt make it music. it would be more suitable to call it a beat. when artists incorporate these beats and add something that has actual musical value then it becomes music. i agree with to each his own, but some stuff is just crap. i personally am not too into RHCP but they have talent. their bassist is amazing, i think the rest of the band is mediocre unfortunatly. (if you play bass check out Flea's instructional vids) Santana was awesome, before he started doing pop stuff to make some more money. his old stuff was awesome and he is a damn good player. Pearl Jam and Incubus are quite mainstream, but ive gone a month listening to mainly incubus. i appreciate your sarcasm to get your point across, but as a learned musician i just hate it when people who study this stuff dont get any recognition for it and those who pick up a guitar and play 4 chords get fame and fortune. im in no way saying a simple song cant be good, look at ACDC, most of the riffs are very similar and very simple, but a good musician wont leave it at that, hence the solos. im not saying a band has to solo to be good or talented, but some display of musical knowledge is definitely for the better.


Wow... I'm sorry if I sounded over-enthusiastic or rude while being sarcastic. It's just that I was expecting you to get flamed up on reading my post, and reply strongly... so, I honeslty feel I must apologize.

Now, as for your point about music being what it is and you getting annoyed because you're a musician, I can now understand why exactly it is that you feel pissed about manufactured beats and randomly spoken words being classified as music. I used to be really passionate about issues I believed in... music, the need to be yourself, etc etc... until I found out that most people just don't care... People don't care much about musical talent nowadays... all they want is something that sounds good, or something that's considered "cool", another thing I hate... Nobody'll admit things about themselves if they think others are going to percieve it as "uncool"... it used to sicken me to such an extent that I used to dress like a nerd and talk about the BSB just to sound uncool, and prove that I didn't care... then I just gave up and started really being myself... listened to the kind of music that I liked without caring about what anybody said about it... Anyway, I'm going off-topic.

BTW, I haven't heard much of Joe Satriani, I've only heard "Sachboogie" (definitely got the spelling wrong, didn't I?), and I can't wait to get my hands on the album. He toured India recently, but was in another city quite far off and I couldn't go see him Sad

PS: If you haven't got Santana's self-titled album (Santana III), get it... I think it's the best Santana work ever.
shr3dd
Tidrug, I sincerely appreciate your apology. I usually get heated over political debate not music. lol I do appreciate music because I am a musician, but I have many friends who are not musicians who can appreciate music because they recognize that there is talent in these musicians. "Satch Boogie" is an awesome song to hear if you've only heard one. You should check out Steve Vai as well, he is an excellent guitarist much like Satriani. Vai was actually tought by Satch and so was Kirk Hammett of Metallica. It is saddening that poplular music isn't appreciated for it's musical value and by what sounds "cool".
Derleth
shr3dd, rap is indeed music, your inability to understand it notwitstanding. There is plenty of rap that is neither pro-violence nor simply someone rhyming over a drum machine. Check out the Sugar Hill Gang for example, or Grandmaster Flash.

Now, tell me a genre you enjoy and I'll claim it isn't music. Rolling Eyes
diablera
I dont think there is something wrong with 'disliking some specific kidn of music' but I would definitely never say rap or hip hop is not music. some people might think it is ridiculous to compare rap and hip hop with charleston, blues and the cotton club jazz of Louis Armstrong and Aretha Franklyn.

I might be wrong, but I guess music is getting more like a GLOBAL thing that you definitely can't stop it... Prog Rock is very OK, but it is not the main stuff in MUSIC's WORLD

Cheers!!!! Cool
Derleth
diablera wrote:
some people might think it is ridiculous to compare rap and hip hop with charleston, blues and the cotton club jazz of Louis Armstrong and Aretha Franklyn.
It's difficult to make comparisons between music of widely disparate genres and timeframes, not ridiculous. You can make sensible statements about how they differ and even how they are similar.

For example, both cotton club jazz and hip-hop were music for young black people to dance to. They were both seen as 'dangerous' and 'corrupting' by more traditional people of their respective timeframes, and they both exhibited lasting influence on future music.
tidruG
I was thinking about this thread last night... Well, tell me what y'all think about this:

Music, lately, has become more than just "music"... it's not just about notes, tunes, melody and musical talent anymore... Think about this... scientists and medical practitioners have provided proff that Music-therapy works, which proves that music affects us a lot better than just plain words... eventually, I suppose music has become more of an expression of creativity and ideas, rather than just music at face value or entertainment. It's a for bands to express their ideas, to pay homage, to give vent to emotional outbursts, and the need to say things, address issues that they think need to be addressed. Darn it, I'm just not able to express it properly... anyway, I hope you got what I'm trying to say... That's why I love the music I love so much... incubus have great lyrics, and perhaps tey don't have as much talent as a lot of other musicians, what I appreciate about them is the music that they do make... on the other hand, I love Metallica, primarily because I think James Hetfield has the best singing capability among most of the Hard Rock/Metal band singers out there... HE can produce that rough, loud, grinding voice when required (case in point : "I Disappear"), and also do a smooth, controlled, deep singing part very well (case in point : "The Unforgiven II" (ReLoad Version))... so, basically, both talent and the music are recognized.

Oh, and also, it's not like rappers are completely talentless... as long as rap is classified under music, we have to give credit to rappers for being able to write rap verses. I've tried writing a rap song, just for fun, but it wasn't that easy... to be honest, what I wrote was more crap than rap, though it did rhyme (somewhat) Very Happy
budazz
me i listen to a rap music the bone thugs n harmony Laughing
diablera
Im not quite sure of this, but my theory about music is simple: whe you play a chord, you're simply creating music. It doesnt have to do anything with virtuosicism, or something like that.

I know probably a statement like this one might bother some people in here. But I actually am not the only one who thinks so...

Cheers! Cool
shr3dd
Derleth, Progressive-metal, now explain how it isn't music.

I wasn't saying all rap was violent and vulgar, but mainstream is mainly rap that is violent and vulgar. A computerized beat is not music.

When someone strums a chord, they are indeed making music, keep in mind strumming a chord takes a smidgen of talent, making a computer loop a beat does not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=music
Derleth
shr3dd wrote:
Derleth, Progressive-metal, now explain how it isn't music.
For one thing, it doesn't include singing. Screaming over someone banging on a guitar doesn't count.

Quote:
I wasn't saying all rap was violent and vulgar, but mainstream is mainly rap that is violent and vulgar. A computerized beat is not music.
Neither is pounding the hell out of three chords on an electric guitar.

Quote:
When someone strums a chord, they are indeed making music, keep in mind strumming a chord takes a smidgen of talent, making a computer loop a beat does not.
Making a guitar and drums produce noise doesn't, either.

Quote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=music
This doesn't actually help your case.
tidruG
shr3dd wrote:
When someone strums a chord, they are indeed making music, keep in mind strumming a chord takes a smidgen of talent, making a computer loop a beat does not.


yes it does... You need loads of practice to get the right beat, the right drum, the right tempo, the right sound, the right pitch, etc etc etc etc etc...

Dictionary definitions of words don't help in an argument... if we're going strictly by dictionary, it's a different case altogther, but I think we're arguing about what in contemporary music is really music... if we go into dictionary meanings and the real meaning of the term music as and when it was first use, music will only be defined by string classical instruments and vocals... in that case, an electric guitar also will produce sound only, and not music.
MistaKiula
Quote:
For one thing, it doesn't include singing. Screaming over someone banging on a guitar doesn't count.

And you call people rapping .. 'Singing'? Rapping as in those people who speaks gibberish about people they hate, love, money, gun, etc.

Maybe you guys are generelizing it too much.. Rap can be meant in several different categories, one being it's R&B (which is music because it's mostly singing, and THAT takes skills and talent.) which I listen to a few and other may perhaps be those 'vulgar', 'racist', 'hate', sorta music that people categorize to what rap is ALL about.. people should really seperate the two to avoid people being flammed by the music they like.
tidruG
MistaKiula wrote:
Quote:
For one thing, it doesn't include singing. Screaming over someone banging on a guitar doesn't count.

And you call people rapping .. 'Singing'? Rapping as in those people who speaks gibberish about people they hate, love, money, gun, etc.

Maybe you guys are generelizing it too much.. Rap can be meant in several different categories, one being it's R&B (which is music because it's mostly singing, and THAT takes skills and talent.) which I listen to a few and other may perhaps be those 'vulgar', 'racist', 'hate', sorta music that people categorize to what rap is ALL about.. people should really seperate the two to avoid people being flammed by the music they like.

So, are you saying people should be flamed at if the like rap and not be flamed at if they like R n B? Wink
lockwolf
Most Rap I dont like cuz its like "F this and F that and F your mom". The only real rap song I like is Coolios Gangsters Paradice and thats a good song!
Derleth
MistaKiula wrote:
Quote:
For one thing, it doesn't include singing. Screaming over someone banging on a guitar doesn't count.

And you call people rapping .. 'Singing'? Rapping as in those people who speaks gibberish about people they hate, love, money, gun, etc.
That's wrong. It isn't gibberish and it isn't always about those themes.

I could say that rock is just people wailing gibberish about girls, cars, sex, and drugs.

Quote:
Maybe you guys are generelizing it too much.. Rap can be meant in several different categories, one being it's R&B (which is music because it's mostly singing, and THAT takes skills and talent.) which I listen to a few and other may perhaps be those 'vulgar', 'racist', 'hate', sorta music that people categorize to what rap is ALL about.. people should really seperate the two to avoid people being flammed by the music they like.
Uh, no. Rap and R&B are two different things, and both take talent.
tidruG
Some of the posts remind me of "Stan". It's got nothing to do with love/hate/guns/etc. It's not even much of f this or f that except what is required in the context in which the words have been used in the song. It's about obsession... that's a theme I've rarely come across even in rock songs, which I say generally have much more varied themes.
shr3dd
I'm sorry it has taken me time to respond to this post.

Derleth wrote:
For one thing, it doesn't include singing. Screaming over someone banging on a guitar doesn't count.


Have you ever listened to Progressive Metal? Obviously not because prog metal bands RARELY scream, and they don't just "bang on a guitar". Progressive musicians usually are quite virtuostic and have a great deal of intricate proficiency on their instrument.

shr3dd wrote:
I wasn't saying all rap was violent and vulgar, but mainstream is mainly rap that is violent and vulgar. A computerized beat is not music.
derleth wrote:
Neither is pounding the hell out of three chords on an electric guitar.


While three chords would actually be music, I would have to say it's near talentless.

shr3dd wrote:
When someone strums a chord, they are indeed making music, keep in mind strumming a chord takes a smidgen of talent, making a computer loop a beat does not.
derleth wrote:
Making a guitar and drums produce noise doesn't, either.


Actually, it does take talent to make it sound good. Someone flinging their fingers on a guitar or flailing their arms and hitting drums isn't telent. But to say that guitar playing doesn't take talent proves your ignorance. Some guitarists and drummers spend their whole life honing their skills on the instruments and you spend your time jacking off to fake Britney Spears pics off a P2P network. They have more talent in their fingers or hands then the entire hip-hop genre.

Quote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=music
derleth wrote:
This doesn't actually help your case.


Sure it does because you think setting a computer to make a couple bells and whistles is music and people that graduate from Berklee College of Music are talentless. Moron.

edit: fixed quotes
Helios
Hmm..
Again the Hip Hop vs rock fight lol.. i guess.

Everything that sounds good to you is music.
That means that the combination of Guitars, drums and other instruments(rock), a talk according to a special beat(rap) and even Electronic Generated and Amplified multi signals(electronical) are Music.

I wouldn't call trance or rap music but it isn't wrong to call it music.


This goes to my blog =D
shr3dd
Helios you touched on a point I was thinking about but couldn't put into words until now. Music is a delicate art that must be learned and practiced. It must have melodic and harmonic value, unless it's atonal of course. Wink Then again "music" can be any sound that is pleasant to an individual's ears. Some "music" that some are really into, may or may not be music. Some music that others are really into, people might not like.
gnas
shr3dd wrote:
does anyone out there still listen to actual music for the artists' musicianship? im not talking about rap (its not music) or almost any mainstream act. im talking about bands with real talent and not just a large trend-based crowd following them. I'm into the virtuostic talent such as dream theater, joe satriani, steve vai, pink floyd, rush, or even a band such as trivium or shadows fall. is there anyone out there that still listens to people with talent? and no playing a 3 chord song and screaming over it is not talent


Hell yeah I listen to Trivium. I also listen to Cursive and Hot hot heat Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
lingcj
nickhaw wrote:
scott its not so much mainstream artists dont have talent its just they sellout and get overplayed and become really annoying. Very Happy
tidruG
lingcj wrote:
nickhaw wrote:
scott its not so much mainstream artists dont have talent its just they sellout and get overplayed and become really annoying. Very Happy


Er.... what? How does sinply quoting someone else's post help the topic conversation?

If you think that posts like these are actually counted among your 5 posts that you require for getting a site, you're so mistaken. Why do you think it takes time for requests to be accepted? Because each request is scrutinized to make sure your posts are not spam Twisted Evil ... this one clearly is. Rolling Eyes
shr3dd
I would still like to see a rebuttle from Derleth...

Tidrug, isn't it sad that some people just don't have anything to say and have to resort to spamming to get a quite small number of posts. I post 5 good ones while taking a crap (or I would if I had a laptop).
tidruG
shr3dd wrote:
I would still like to see a rebuttle from Derleth...

Tidrug, isn't it sad that some people just don't have anything to say and have to resort to spamming to get a quite small number of posts. I post 5 good ones while taking a crap (or I would if I had a laptop).


Well, more than sad, it's very annoying... and occasionally very amusing, too. lol... I remember this one dude, who made a new thead in some forum (I tdon't rememmber which), and all he posted was some randon letters... but that's not the amusing thing. He actually posted 4 replies to his own nonsense topic, and they too were all just random letters!! And he had the gall to request for hosting!

Anyway, we're going off-topic.
dengbs
this is a very funny aseveration: Mainstream musicians are not precisely telentless: Look... do not tell me Joe Satriani is better than The Edge just because he is more like a 'technician' guitarist...

So many young musicians (and not musicians too) think that you have to be really good at technique when playing an instrument to be talented or musically gifted.
<h1>NO</h1>
Really, think of this: King Crimson's front man (and guitarist), Robert Fripp plays really hard and difficult stuff in some of the band's songs, but in some others, he just play two or three chords... and it doesnt mean he's not good at these songs.

besides that, as long as i remember, satriani said once in an interview on TV that one of the guitarists who he admires a lot is THE EDGE, and c'mmon, tell me he's not.

I also have to say it: mmost of 'good technician musicians' were really into make hard and not easy listening music when they were young. That is really OK when you do it with heart, that is the case of Fripp, Brian Eno, Roger Watters, etc. But then you can listen to more recent stuff and it is TOTALLY Different....

BTW, I guess if you like Dream Theater you should first try bands such like:

Can, Banco, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Frank Zappa, Charles Mingus, Decibel, John Zorn, Painkiller, Naked City, Bill Frissell, etc...
shr3dd
ive never said if a song has only a few chords then it isnt good. i think satriani is much better than the edge because of his song writing ability. and most of satriani's earlier music was more accessable than his newer stuff. ive heard the majority of the bands/musicians you named. just think, if im into king crimson ive had to do some searching for music and ive found most of those bands.
cavalkaf
Yeah, I still listen to Pink Floyd, Led Zeppellin, and most others back when they used to perform.
dengbs
first of all im not talkign about everyone, and seocndly im not just talking about music and thirdly it is true, i mean really look at fashion... look harder... what do you see. most fads in fashon comes from celebritys who wair something outragoues like once and people eat it all up. but i now think with things like mtv, which only plays certain music, people only have a music base based on what soem producer or vj wants to be played... so there
first of all im not talkign about everyone, and seocndly im not just talking about music and thirdly it is true, i mean really look at fashion... look harder... what do you see. most fads in fashon comes from celebritys who wair something outragoues like once and people eat it all up. but i now think with things like mtv, which only plays certain music, people only have a music base based on what soem producer or vj wants to be played... so there
Rolling Eyes Sad Crying or Very sad Cool
shr3dd
did you have to say it twice? lol everyone knows mtv only plays what they want you to hear/like/buy and nothing else. when mtv actually plays music it isnt for quality its for what they can make the most money off of. its nearly killed music and its just about destroyed a good portion of todays youth.
Thefez
I love King Crimson and Gentle Giant.
Blummer
I don't keep myself updated with what goes on with modern hip hop. I'm mostly stuck in 80s-90s when it comes to stuff like G-funk. I love old school stuff, still listen to old Cypress Hill and the others from that era.
deanhills
fuzzkaizer
Too bad, someone tried to lead this thread in an endless circle-debate, by just posting the same posts twice after a certain time, and it failed!

But reading through that, I'd say if someone claims that rap is not music, and at the same time states that he detests commercial mainstream pop music, so there is a contradiction. He is at best referring to mainstream exponents of rap, and therefore misunderstands rap in it's core. Besides the argument that rap has no (melodic?) singing (which is bullshit anyway) and for that reason is not music sounds like: "rhythm alone, without melody, is not music" - which is also quite an incompetent statement.
I'm not that much into rap, but hereby I'd like to quote:

"Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches, and bling were never part of the Four Elements, and never will be."
from that song:

¥

dan le sac VS scroobius pip "Thou Shalt always Kill"
spinout
What is not Music? Well Music is rythm and tones together I suppose.
So rythm by it self is just a beat and tones are not more than frequencies....
Do you aree??
fuzzkaizer
okay, okay, i agree... but:
that discussion what is music and what is not, it is like the endless debate about what is art and what isn't - it's like any college student who walks into art classes with some scribbling on a paper claiming it to be art...
leave the rhythm and the tones, take the musicians and their audiences - to a big part they might agree about what is music, but still there stay some tones and rhythms that are interesting for musicians more than for the listeners, also there might be some noise conceived as sort of music by people who like to listen to it...
like they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", you might say something like "Music is in the ear of the eavesdropper" or similar...
standready
I enjoy going out and listening to 'up and coming' bands. The talent and creativity in some of them is amazing.
Over the years, I have seen several artists long before they hit big.
deanhills
Depends on my mood whether my ears are twitched to sound as harmony and music. Rap can be great harmony. For example this rap artist did really great with harmony and food for thought:



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My complaint with today's music
Real Music
Simple Plan
Do you like Techno?
The Numa Numa Obsession
70's Rock
music
Meizu Music Card----such a cool mp3 player
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