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You dont have to pay income tax!





Wish4Me
In the video you will see compelling evidence with a long fact sheet that is unfabricated but well edited to get the point across.
Compelling Video

Watch the video, spread the word, get the word out its the least you can do for your country, or america if you live elsewhere.

Go to http://www.freedomtofascism.com/ for more information about this long hidden government scandal.
teko
is it any good???
bluefossil
paying taxes is a good thing. i'm glad I have roads I can drive on
DecayClan
Is this video actually 400MB???
i can't wait it for it to load... Boring....
HoboPelican
DecayClan wrote:
Is this video actually 400MB???
i can't wait it for it to load... Boring....


Yeah, I second that. I really hate it when someone posts a link to movie without going over the basic arguments the movie presents. Usually it turns out to be something worthless and silly. So, if there really was something in that clip, wish4me, why don't you summarize the main points. It sounds pretty unlikely to me.
ninjakannon
I watched the first 5 minutes. From the start the movie makes claims without backing any of them up - it states things as facts with no proof, or sign that proof will be given. I assume that it's a politically motivated movie aimed at changing people's minds and starting some kind of mini-rebellion in America. All I can say is that it's probably half made up, half exaggerated (or something along those lines).

I'm obviously prepared to change my mind, however I'd need a good in-depth explanation of exactly what that movie covers and states. Then I, and others, could ponder the claims and either agree with them or formulate our reasons for disagreeing.
darknight985
Your "Compelling Video" is just a bunch of bogus. I watched about 10 minutes of it and I asked myself. "What the hell?" This movie is just another conspiracy against the government. I bet 10$ that half of the quotes in that "video" are made up. There is no way that the whole government would cheat america out of its money. They use that money to make america better.

There are so many bogus conspiracies that people like YOU circulate, that the government doesn't have time to deny them. Just time to ignore them. Which would make some people think, "Oh! they didn't deny it, so they ARE DOING IT!" Well if your not going to think things through than you can go ahead and make stuff up.

In conclusion, maybe YOU should try and watch it and like what HoboPelican said, tell us the main argument and some details on how they are cheating us. Please, I will be watching this topic for YOUR reply.

---And people, dont bother watching it, it is just a waste of yours, and my life---
SonLight
I have heard many claims that the US goverment does not have the legal right to tax our income. There are probably some legal issues about definitions of what kind of wealth or income is legitimate to tax, but I have not yet heard a good argument why it is inherently wrong to have the tax.

Perhaps someday someone will find a technical problem with the income tax we have today, and get the courts to agree that the government has acted improperly. So what? Surely the Congress and state legislators have the right (through another constitutional amendment if necessary) to correct whatever is wrong with the present law. If the court rules that any substantial amount of the money "wrongly taken" needs to be given back, that will just increase the debt burden on those of us who will have to pay the newly-legalized income taxes in the future.
knux
Yea and in your first post you state, "not fabricated but well edited" Ok so they aren't made up but they are bogus? I mean what the hell man and plus when you take taxes away then people bitch that it is communism. I guess we gotta bitch about something now dont we?
rhathar
I'm pretty sure if anything like this was legitimate it would have been exploited long ago, and we'd see wealthy businessmen that had nothing better to do than figure out how to keep their money (there's a lot of them, aren't there?) that don't pay taxes.

I'm pretty sure all the people I've heard of that stopped paying taxes WENT TO JAIL.
SonLight
rhathar wrote:


I'm pretty sure all the people I've heard of that stopped paying taxes WENT TO JAIL.


People who cheat the government, and deliberately fabricate information to keep from paying, are liable to go to jail. But there are many tax protestors who are harrassed by the IRS, but do not go to jail. The US income tax is widely referred to as a "voluntary tax". While some think that means it is entirely optional whether we pay or not, most people believe that it refers to the fact that we figure out and send in our own tax computations.

When we fail to file and pay taxes, we are in somewhat of a legal limbo. It is hard for them to find a good reason to convict us of a major crime, but the IRS can sure make life difficult for us.
HoboPelican
SonLight wrote:
When we fail to file and pay taxes, we are in somewhat of a legal limbo. It is hard for them to find a good reason to convict us of a major crime, but the IRS can sure make life difficult for us.


I am no tax lawyer, but it is not uncommon to read about people being jailed for Income Tax evasion. Why do you say it is hard for them to convict?
psycosquirrel
I think it is funny how the original poster never responded to any of the statements made here.

I don't think the government wastes our money; I see respectable people working hard for them day after day here in the US to keep our country safe, clean, and well-maintained. If anything, I almost think we should be providing the government with more money to get rid of our national debt...
ninjakannon
psycosquirrel wrote:
I think it is funny how the original poster never responded to any of the statements made here.

Yeah, but I almost expected that from the start, they have 21 posts and negative points - it wouldn't surprise me if they'd forgotten about this post altogether; FriHost will shut up right be at the back of their mind.

psycosquirrel wrote:
I don't think the government wastes our money

You know that's blatantly not true. The thing is, it's hard not to waste money when you're doing so many different projects and trying out new things all the time. Every government will waste money; you should only blame them for wanton and unnecessary waste though.
SmartIcon
Paying tax is a very good thing. The nation depends on the tax you pay for its developments. So every body should pay tax.
ItsWesley
Thankfully i don't have to pay tax yet as i don't earn enough, but I do think taxes should be paid, after all they do go back into the country and things like roads and police.
Dwyer17
Umm... I don't know about that. Let's just stick to paying taxes. Just like paying cable, taxes are a subscription to living in the country and to using its services.
Droop
400mb is alot is it any good? Because I cant sit here for an hour just to watch a video :O happy posting!!
loophole64
Well, I've seen this movie, so I'll try to summarize it's arguments. I don't think the movie was compelling, but it certainly pointed out some eye opening things that most people are unaware of. I'll play devils advocate because I don't like seeing people dismiss things just because they contradict their beliefs.

"Hey man, I think the Chancellor torched the Reichstag, not that Van der Lubbe guy."
"Don't be ridiculous, governments don't do things like that."

I think it's good to question your assumptions. I think most people are aware that politicians sometimes lie, conspiracies do in fact sometimes happen, and people sometimes continue to do things they shouldn't because things have always been done that way. People also sometimes connect dots that don't really connect in order to piece together non-existent conspiracies because they see demons in every shadow.

The first thing you should know is that Aaron Russo, the guy who made this movie, is a successful film producer. He has won an Emmy and a Tony award, and his films Trading Places and The Rose were nominated for six Academy Awards between them. This movie was shown in select movie theatres across the country for a time. So this wasn't made by "some guy." Another thing you should know is that Aaron is politically active and ran for president on the Libertarian ticket. Part of the libertarian platform is the abolition of income tax. However, it is a logical fallacy to discount an argument because it comes from someone who has motive to argue it. Libertarians argue that income tax is both unnecessary and harmful.

The movieís argument, at it's core, is about the rule of law, and national sovereignty. The rule of law is the principle that government authority is used only in accordance with written, publicly disclosed laws. National Sovereignty is the right of a country to have exclusive authority over it's territory.

The first half of the movie attempts to explain why Federal Income Tax is not lawful or necessary. The main arguments are:

1. There is no law passed by congress requiring you to pay income tax.
2. Income tax is unconstitutional because it is a direct tax that is not apportioned.
3. The 16th amendment was never ratified by the states and even if it had been, it does not give the government the power to tax citizenís wages.
4. The personal income tax is not necessary.

1. There is no law passed by congress requiring you to pay income tax.

This argument is made by several interviews with former IRS employees who said they were unable to find the law requiring people to pay taxes. Iím not so sure what the confusion is, as Title 26 (the internal revenue code), Subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Part I, Section 1 (in other words the very first section of the document) says ďThere is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individualÖĒ

http://www.fourmilab.ch/ustax/www/t26-A-1-A-I-1.html

This is law passed by congress. Thereís the law. There are similar subsections for married people, etc.

2. Income tax is unconstitutional because it is a direct tax that is not apportioned.

The constitution states:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers...

In other words, any direct tax had to be levied in proportion to the stateís population. The Revenue Act of 1894, which included the first personal income tax of 2%, was struck down the following year because it was ruled that taxes on property income were direct taxes. So it was property income taxes that was the problem with the law, not income taxes on wages. The 16th amendment removed this restriction by stating:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

So now even direct income taxes did not have to be apportioned.

3. The 16th amendment was never ratified by the states and even if it had been, it does not give the government the power to tax citizenís wages.

No argument is actually given about the ratification of the 16th amendment. A little research shows that the argument is based on the fact that the legislation sent to the states for ratification often had capitalization, punctuation, or dictation mistakes, and since the texts were not exactly the same as the amendment ratified by congress, those stateís ratification were invalid. This has been dismissed universally by courts in supreme court cases.

As to whether the 16th amendment gives the power to tax citizenís wages, the movie seems compelling at first glance. The argument goes like this:

Congress tried to pass an income tax law in 1894. The supreme court said it was unconstitutional. They tried again in 1913. The supreme court said that the 16th amendment gives no new power of taxation. If they didnít have it, and they didnít get it, they donít have it.

That is literally the argument, word for word. At first glance, it seems to make sense. Until you research it and find that what they are saying there is several half truths, each taken out of context, and strung together to say something that is not true.

The Revenue Act of 1894 was not ruled unconstitutional because it had an income tax. It was ruled unconstitutional in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Company because a specific kind of income tax in it, specifically a tax on income derived from property (i.e. stocks) was a ruled to be a direct tax, and it was not apportioned as it should be. They never said income tax was unconstitutional.

Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad is used as an example of a case where the supreme court said the 16th amendment conveys no new power of taxation. What they didnít mention is that the court said this was because congress always had the power to tax income. They said that the 16th amendment removed the requirement to apportion income taxes, even if they are considered direct, and that the new tax statute including income taxes that were not apportioned did not violate the constitution. So in fact, they said the opposite of what the film tries to make you think they were saying, using a half quote, out of context.

So itís true that the 16th amendment didnít give congress the power to tax income. They already had that power. The 16th amendment removed the requirement that those taxes be apportioned.

4. The personal income tax is not necessary.

This argument seems to stand up to some inspection. The movie explains that everyone thinks that federal income tax goes to paying for government services, infrastructure, education, etc. The film explains that 100% of the federal income tax actually goes to paying interest on the federal debt. Their reference is the Grace commission, which took a look at waste in the government during the Reagan years in order to make government more efficient. The grace commission states that:

"100% of the what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt. all individual tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services tax payers expect from government."

The film points out that federal income tax does not go to paying for highways. It does not go to education. Those are funded by other sources (gasoline tax, property taxes, local taxes, trucker highway taxes, etc). The film asks the question, if we need federal income tax to fund government, then how did we fund government from 1776 to 1913? They point out that corporate income tax collected covers defense. They point out that undocumented adjustments, money that is missing, is many times what we even collect in personal income taxes.

After researching this, I have a hard time arguing against it. It seems that my belief, and many otherís, that personal income tax is necessary to pay for infrastructure and services, is actually not true.


The second part of the movie starts getting into numerous topics, too many to summarize even really, but it is based on tying together the federal reserve, the council on foreign relations, and the new world order.

The Federal Reserve is not federal, but is a private consortium of bankers who was given the power to print our money in 1913. The constitution gives that power to congress. For some reason we gave that power to private banks, and when we need money, they print it, and then lend it to us, and charge us interest on it. Our income taxes go to paying that interest, which wouldnít be necessary if we printed our own money. The film likes to point out that many of our countries greatest minds have been vehemently against private banks controlling the creation of money.

"If the American People ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing power of money should be taken from the bankers and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson in a letter to James Monroe, Jan 1, 1815.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money ."
-Sir Josiah Stamp
former director of the central Bank of England

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

The Council on Foreign Relations is a group of powerful individuals who set policy for our country. One of their goals is a one world government, rather than many sovereign countries.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years........It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller, 1991 Bilderberger Convention

I donít really know enough about the CFR and the Fed to make a judgment on this stuff, but a lot of it seems like good questions that should be asked. I just donít know the answers.
loophole64
psycosquirrel wrote:
I think it is funny how the original poster never responded to any of the statements made here.

I don't think the government wastes our money; I see respectable people working hard for them day after day here in the US to keep our country safe, clean, and well-maintained. If anything, I almost think we should be providing the government with more money to get rid of our national debt...


Just because you see people working hard for the government, doesn't mean there aren't other's who are not working hard, or wasting money. There are lots of good people in our government, and there is also lots of waste. You probably hear about stuff like this in the news pretty regularly:

http://www.whereisthemoney.org/1.1trillion.htm
HoboPelican
loophole64 wrote:
Well, I've seen this movie, so I'll try to summarize it's arguments. ....


A lot of work and nicely done! I am always willing to distrust the established order, but I've seen too many of these sorts of conspiracy ideas to waste my time on unless the poster gives us better info upfront. When someone says "here's proof! Watch this video!" without laying out any of the facts themselves, I figure it is another waste of time.

Your analysis looked pretty much like what I expected, but the last bit about whether it is necessary was quite interesting. I have no idea yet if it is true or not, but it sounded like something we should know more about. But whether the income tax is necessary or not doesn't really have any bearing about it's legality or our need to pay it.

Again, thanks for the work there.
loophole64
Yeah I agree, and the movie definitely did a pretty bad job of researching it's facts about the legality. Then the other stuff that I think actually might have some merit, they did a really bad job on because they flopped around from subject to subject and never really backed any one of them up.

For anyone interested, here's is a cool show from a few years ago called "Monopoly Men." It's an episode of a show called phenomenon, and it covers the federal reserve better. Plus it's hosted by that quantum leap guy! Very Happy

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7065177340464808778&q=monopoly+men
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