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The flu vaccine... Help or hoax?






Which of these options describes you?
I have had the flu shot and gotten the flu
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
I have had the flu shot and not gotten the flu
16%
 16%  [ 3 ]
I have not had the flu shot and have gotten the flu
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
I have not had the flu shot and have not gotten the flu
50%
 50%  [ 9 ]
I'm not sure.
16%
 16%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 18

ocalhoun
I'm creating this thread because of some interesting information I've come across in recent conversations.
Everybody I asked who got flu shots eventually got the flu, while everybody I asked who didn't get the shots (myself included) didn't get the flu.

I'm wondering if there is some kind of conspiracy (or screwup) here, where the flu shot actually gives you the flu.

This might be because of the people who make the vaccines wanting to make more profit, or perhaps it is because the vaccine, though well-intended, is faulty and harms rather than protects.

Your thoughts?
Anticollie
I was always made aware that only little children and the elderly should concern themselves with flu shots. However, recent medical data (apparently) proves otherwise. However, as I have never come down with the flu, I remain generally unconvinced with the effectiveness of a flu shot... however my Grandma is a nurse, and she is steadfast in her love for flu shots. <shrugs>

Signed,
Anticollie.
David_Pardy
I only ever had the flu shot once, and I didn't get the flu.

But my immune system is all but bulletproof. I almost never get sick.
Wynand
I think the flue vaccine works in some way.

The reason why I think that your reason for it not working is incorrect is the following.


People that have a high risk of getting the flue (for example people that work with many other people) have the flue vaccine more that people that do not have such a high risk.

These low list people that did not had the vaccine will not get flu, for some of the high risk people the vaccine may have worked and for other not.
fharari07
I also take a swine flu vaccination last year and after that, I got sick. When I came back to my doctor he said that it just only normal to have sick after vaccination. But I promise to myself that I will never get another flu vaccination again.
missdixy
ocalhoun wrote:
I'm creating this thread because of some interesting information I've come across in recent conversations.
Everybody I asked who got flu shots eventually got the flu, while everybody I asked who didn't get the shots (myself included) didn't get the flu.

I'm wondering if there is some kind of conspiracy (or screwup) here, where the flu shot actually gives you the flu.

This might be because of the people who make the vaccines wanting to make more profit, or perhaps it is because the vaccine, though well-intended, is faulty and harms rather than protects.

Your thoughts?


You can't predict the strains that are going to be out every year. Flu-shots are based on strains of the virus from the previous year. Usually, the mutations/changes in the strains from the previous year to the current year are minor enough that getting a flu shot works, but you may be unlucky and get a strain that is slightly more mutated and so the shot is not effective. Or, the strains might just mutate more than average from one year to another. It just depends. There is really no way to know. This is why people who get flu-shots can still get the flu. Scientists don't claim that flu vaccines completely eliminate your chances of getting the flu, but simply that it decreases them. This is why last year there were two flu-shots: the normal season one and the 'h1n1' shot that later came out after that particular strain was discovered. The strain of the h1n1 shot was significantly different from the strains used in the normal flu-vaccine and for that reason, we needed a whole other shot with a more 'accurate' strain in order to actually be effective.

The fact that everybody you asked whether they got the flu shot and said yes later got the flu just seems to fall under those conditions previously mentioned. A sample would have to be much larger than that to discover any real statistical significance.
Denvis
removed.
deanhills
I agree with Ocalhoun. Everyone I know who got the vaccine, almost always start with sniffles right after. They still get the flu anyway. Only thing that I could think is that they get the flu maybe less intense than what they would have got if they did not have the vaccine. I've always had a natural robust immune system. I rarely get the flu. But I'd rather take my chances on trying to be as healthy as I can, than any of the flu vaccines. One thing I know about medicines is that they always fix one thing, and then create other problems. Probably always wise to insist to see the documentation and to read through all the possible contra-indications. Ditto anti-biotics. The latter puts added strain on our immune systems, with results such as allergies and a whole host of other things. One really has to do your research thoroughly and then weigh the odds. I think if someone is really very sick with flu, especially that which goes to the chest, then a very good anti-biotic can be justified, but to just take it for sniffles, or take it too regularly, may create all kinds of side-effects later.
Ghost900
Seeing as the flue shot only protects from the supposed big flu I have never gotten it and I have been fine. People with the flu shot are still worried about getting a flu from somebody who has it (telling them to keep their distance) showing they don't even trust the flu shot that much. As for young children, if they want to get the shot I guess it's fine though I did fine without the flu shot as any flu's I did get just boosted my immune system.
SonLight
deanhills wrote:
I agree with Ocalhoun. Everyone I know who got the vaccine, almost always start with sniffles right after. They still get the flu anyway. Only thing that I could think is that they get the flu maybe less intense than what they would have got if they did not have the vaccine. I've always had a natural robust immune system. I rarely get the flu. But I'd rather take my chances on trying to be as healthy as I can, than any of the flu vaccines. One thing I know about medicines is that they always fix one thing, and then create other problems. Probably always wise to insist to see the documentation and to read through all the possible contra-indications. Ditto anti-biotics. The latter puts added strain on our immune systems, with results such as allergies and a whole host of other things. One really has to do your research thoroughly and then weigh the odds. I think if someone is really very sick with flu, especially that which goes to the chest, then a very good anti-biotic can be justified, but to just take it for sniffles, or take it too regularly, may create all kinds of side-effects later.


I agree in general with both you and Ocalhoun. It is wise not to take any medicine unless it is really needed, and then it is a good idea to understand what is going on as much as you can.

I do think that flu shots generally do some good. A flu shot will often induce a mini-flu which is not dangerous immediately after it is taken. It may be beneficial either by preventing flu infection later, or by helping your body fight off the effects of a flu which it cannot entirely prevent.

The bad effects of flu shots are seen by many people, but the good effect of eliminating a serious, possibly even fatal, illness is seen only be a few. Nevertheless it is probably better that many suffer a little in order to prevent the few hospitalizations and deaths that would occur in the absence of the shot.

I would generally recommend only those at high risk take flu shots. While immunizations are a wonderful thing, they are probably overused somewhat in the US.

I strongly agree that antibiotics should not be used unless really needed. They do have bad side effects. One friend of mine had problems with his digestion, probably because antibiotics (which he apparently really needed) had wiped out too many of the useful bacteria in his stomach. He was advised to drink buttermilk which would give the antibiotics more bacteria to attack, and also would replace some of the lost bacteria.
Blaster
Well I have never gotten a flu shot. I believe that I never will. Like Denvis said the flu virus is constantly changing. Therefore its almost point less.

Denvis also had another good point by saying how the vaccine works. He is totally right. But why get the flu then get the flu again? it sounds pointless to me. Same thing with the swine flu shot. Everyone hurried and got one. I didn't, guess who didn't get the swine flu.

I believe that if I get sick I will just come out of it. If not there is antibiotics out there that will help if you do get sick.
standready
I had a flu shot once while they were still using a live virus. Gave me the flu BIG TIME! Since then I have never taken a flu shot. Got the flu once since but was on three different airplanes that day. Each time sitting by someone that I know had a flu bug. Hard not to catch in such close quarters.
Navigator
I dont know for sure if this is a hoax, but none responded with such energy to confront deadlier illnesses. That coupled with the fact that governments were ordering millions of vaccines, I can only think someone is getting rich, very rich.
driftingfe3s
I don't get flu shots and I rarely get the flu.

What I was told by my medical microbiology professor was the thing about flu shots are, becuase there are many strains, the flu shot is a mix of the antigens of the strains of flu that doctors believe will be the most prevalent during that season. Becuase there are a large number of factors that affect this, they are not always right.

If you happen to get infected by a different strain of the flu than what doctors though would be prevalent at the time, you have no protection and that flu shot you got was useless. I don't think its a conspiracy, the flu shot works under the same principle that all other vaccines work under.
timothymartin
I see the flu shot as a scam like so many other "medical" practices. I have only got the flu once and that was because a roommate got the flu shot, got sick, and then got us all sick. The flu shot is the disease and they keep making it more powerful. I think the goal is to eventually get everyone sick from it so they can treat it. Not cure, but treat. Just like everything else they treat. For example cancer. More and more people are getting sick from cancer while they have been raising trillions for years. The cure would stop their cash flow, so the goal is to get enough people sick so they can "spend" more money finding a "cure". Its all about the profit.
Denvis
Ugh, there are so many variables that affect the flu shot. Just because you got the flu shot and you still have the flu it doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work.

Take a look at diseases such as smallpox, malaria, diptheria, polio. the number of occurrences drastically dropped due to the availability of vaccines. you may be asking why do those diseases still occur? because idiots think that vaccines don't work or some odd stupid religious reasons. there is no hoax, there is no scam.... read it up on the internet, ask your local doctor.

i just want to point out that...

- flu shots are not 100% prevention methods, e.g. condoms, they aren't 100% either but do they work? yes.
- you could have a flu but not show the symptoms and so by giving you the vaccine for that particular flu WILL NOT cure you and it will not benefit you in ANY POSSIBLE WAY. hence 'PREVENTION METHOD' if you have the sniffles and you go to the doctors to get a vaccine, he'd probably say there's no point because you already show the symptoms. it's like saying, your wife pregnant... shit i better give her the pill. it doesn't work that way.
- again, as someone else previously stated, there are so many different strands of the flu. the vaccines now in 2010 are based on the diseases of 2009... a lot can happen over the course of 1 year.
- i also want to point out, if you don't want a vaccine you don't have to get one.

timothymartin wrote:

I see the flu shot as a scam like so many other "medical" practices. I have only got the flu once and that was because a roommate got the flu shot, got sick, and then got us all sick. The flu shot is the disease and they keep making it more powerful. I think the goal is to eventually get everyone sick from it so they can treat it. Not cure, but treat. Just like everything else they treat. For example cancer. More and more people are getting sick from cancer while they have been raising trillions for years. The cure would stop their cash flow, so the goal is to get enough people sick so they can "spend" more money finding a "cure". Its all about the profit.


no scam buddy, doctors are here to help you, not to make you feel worse and kill you. the flu shot is the disease but like i said earlier, it's the weakened or dead disease and will NOT harm your body, hence what you said is wrong. no one is making it more "powerful"...... if you listened in high school you would of known that a vaccine is specific to the disease you're preventing. it doesn't get more powerful, it's the disease that becomes more resistant. the goal is to maintain a stable state... not to get everybody sick.

more and more people are becoming sick from cancer due to environmental factors not vaccines... there is no cure for cancer and there's no vaccine prevention method for cancer. however there are treatments. oh wait, treatments... means helping... means.... we're not trying to kill humanity. ugh.......... there will never.... ever... ever... be a cure for EVERYTHING because... EVERYTHING changes. go read a biology textbook.
speeDemon
Denvis wrote:
There is no conspiracy............... vaccines work.

When you're given a vaccine, you're basically being infected with a micro organism that causes the infectious diseases.


Eh.. did anyone read that? I think that very well explains the 'less intense' flu that the people got.
deanhills
Denvis wrote:
no scam buddy, doctors are here to help you, not to make you feel worse and kill you. the flu shot is the disease but like i said earlier, it's the weakened or dead disease and will NOT harm your body, hence what you said is wrong. no one is making it more "powerful"...... if you listened in high school you would of known that a vaccine is specific to the disease you're preventing. it doesn't get more powerful, it's the disease that becomes more resistant. the goal is to maintain a stable state... not to get everybody sick.
I agree with some of what you have said, like doctors (most of them anyways) are here to help us. But what confuses me in your discussion is a very good explanation that today's vaccine may not cover a virus strain that are different than the one that the vaccine was created for. And so how do we know that the virus we are going to get will be an exact match for the vaccine? So first we get injected with a virus, basically, so get the sniffles from that. And then we get the virus of the month, that in the end is a different strain than the one that the vaccine matches. And we get the flu a second time. For me it is like playing Russian Roulette with vaccines.

If I were in a risk group of people, i.e. the elderly, those with bronchial type problems, etc., then it would probably be worth the risk, but I regard myself as fit and healthy, and in my fit and healthy state that vaccine may be more harmful for me than good.
Denvis
removed.
BigGeek
Personally after having been in the United States Marine Corp, I have had enough vaccines to choke a hoarse. I've had shots that have made me break out in sweats and throw up. So as a consequence I have decided that I no longer need nor want any vaccinations. I have had the flu and colds, and I'm not going to claim that I don't get sick. Because I do.

This is just an observation I've made in life - have you ever noticed that almost all the US soldiers that receive vaccinations even years after they have left service never really seem to get sick like everyone else? It's not to say they don't get sick, they do, they seem to be able to fight it off faster and in some cases not even contract it. What I'm saying is completely an observation on my part, with absolutely no documentation to prove it, just a casual observation that leaves me wondering.

On a side note a friend of mine that served in the Marines, went to college and med school and became an MD, as an MD he tried to get the complete list of what was contained in the vaccinations he received while in the Corp. He wrote and visited and called all kinds of people and was eventually told NO, and never did get the records of the contents of his vaccinations from DOD Shocked
deanhills
BigGeek wrote:
On a side note a friend of mine that served in the Marines, went to college and med school and became an MD, as an MD he tried to get the complete list of what was contained in the vaccinations he received while in the Corp. He wrote and visited and called all kinds of people and was eventually told NO, and never did get the records of the contents of his vaccinations from DOD Shocked
That always concerns me with the medical profession. Always feeling that we should only be told on a "need to" basis, and it would therefore worry me if your friend could not get the contents of the vaccinations.

For all my "boasting" about robust health, just got the beginnings of a flu! Gargling with salt and bicarbonate of soda .... and resisting it like crazy.

Just noted in HealthDay that many people in the States are planning to skip their flu shot this year. This is based on a study that was conducted at end of August. Worth reading:
Quote:
Despite the attention surrounding last year's outbreak of H1N1 flu, 43 percent of Americans say they will not be getting the vaccine this fall, according to a survey from the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases (NFID).

Another survey from the same group found a third of American mothers saying they have no plans to get a flu shot for their children.

Those decisions could come back to haunt Americans, experts said.

"Flu is serious. Every year millions of people get sick; more than 200,000 people are hospitalized and thousands of people die from influenza," Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said during a Thursday morning press conference. In keeping with CDC guidelines, "everyone over the age of 6 months should get a flu shot," he said.
standready
BigGeek wrote:
Personally after having been in the United States Marine Corp, I have had enough vaccines to choke a hoarse. I've had shots that have made me break out in sweats and throw up. So as a consequence I have decided that I no longer need nor want any vaccinations. I have had the flu and colds, and I'm not going to claim that I don't get sick. Because I do.

You probably got vaccines for everything from the flu to whooping cough and anything else they thought you could contract while where ever they sent you but you "don't need to know".
goutha
it's kind of a hoax. I just regreat that I didn't bought stock of companies that were producing the vaccine.
ankitdatashn
First of all I am confused whether the topic is about common flu or the bird flu, because bird flu got more attention in the recent past. But deciphering I think it must be for Common flu as bird flu is specific and cannot be caught so easily.

I don't think it is much possible for drug making companies to dupe people in buying flu shots that deliberately get people catch up the flu because if that would be so then it would mean court cases on that company and also quite defamation which means drop in sales of that company (read losses for the company)

So I think it's not quite possible... rare possibility exist but to be on a prudent side its possibility is negligible...
missdixy
ankitdatashn wrote:
First of all I am confused whether the topic is about common flu or the bird flu, because bird flu got more attention in the recent past. But deciphering I think it must be for Common flu as bird flu is specific and cannot be caught so easily.

I don't think it is much possible for drug making companies to dupe people in buying flu shots that deliberately get people catch up the flu because if that would be so then it would mean court cases on that company and also quite defamation which means drop in sales of that company (read losses for the company)

So I think it's not quite possible... rare possibility exist but to be on a prudent side its possibility is negligible...


I think the topic is about whether or not flu vaccines work, regardless of the strand. The OP is claiming that, in his/her experience, everyone he/she knows who get the shot got the flu.

The point that some of us are trying to make is that science doesn't claim that flu vaccines 100% eliminate your chances of getting the flu. No, they only decrease those chances by injecting your body with antibodies to the strands that were found last year (after all, that is all we can go by) and hope that the strands haven't mutated too much so that the antibodies will still be effective.

As a college student, I've gotten the flu shot every year here so far and haven't gotten sick with the flu yet, even though a lot of people in my dorm have.
iman
I had a flu shot, I didn't get the flu.
However, I'm still sick with other diseases Sad
Arty
I've almost never had the flu shot. I still get the flu every now and then, but it doesn't bother me enough to make me want to get the vaccine.
deanhills
Arty wrote:
I've almost never had the flu shot. I still get the flu every now and then, but it doesn't bother me enough to make me want to get the vaccine.
Young healthy people in my opinion have very strong immune systems and probably don't need vaccines for flu virusses. Probably more for people in a risk category, such as pregnant women, older people, and people who struggle with flu. Like you, flu does not worry me that much, I get the flu and then it goes away. I have just had one, and it lasted about a week, almost seen its end.
[FuN]goku
I actually had my flu shot on friday, and ended up blacking out 2 minutes after getting it lol. Still don't know what caused that problem, since I haven't had it in the past when I had a shot.

Personally, I have my doubts as to whether they really work or not, although I have heard of a few conspiracy theories about flu shots, of course they're 'theories' and haven't been proven. But I have heard of people getting their shot and then ending up getting the flu.

From what I understand though, when they make the vaccines, aren't they just 'predicting' what flu they think will infect everyone, and make it based on that? If that was true, It wouldn't be 100% effective if a different flu came along. Also, in regards to profits from the makers.... I'm not sure how it works in the US or other countries, but I know I get my shots free here in Canada, but I suppose there is still money involved somewhere (probably the government paying for them or something).

I know last year though, I absolutely refused to get an H1N1 vaccination since they seemed to have produced it in such a rush, plus all the clinics that were offering it had HUGE lineups. I ended up getting swine flu anyway, but it wasn't as bad as the media seemed to have made it out to be.
standready
I ended up getting a flu shot last friday by request of loved ones. No discomfort, reaction or flu from this combination H1N1 and common flu shot. I just hope it works so the money wasn't wasted.
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