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The Game creation topic! - Share experience - Find resources






What gamemaker/gamemaker language do you use?
Game Maker
35%
 35%  [ 23 ]
Rpgmaker XP
4%
 4%  [ 3 ]
DarkBasic
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
3D RPG Builder
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Silent Walk
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Blitz
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Python
10%
 10%  [ 7 ]
C++
12%
 12%  [ 8 ]
Other
24%
 24%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 65

Boffel
The topic for game makers

Introduction:
This topic is made for game developers to help each others with the creation of games. Here you can also add your own games and ask for comments. A huge list of resources is added to help you find the right tools and builders for your games, if you know any good resources thats not added please post them here so I can add them. To start you can post some info about yourself and your experience with game making here if you want. Have fun! Wink

Games made by frihosters:
Hamster world games: - Http://HamsterWorld.No-Ip.Info - A bunch of games by HamsterMan
Snake: - http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/31121 - Made in gamemaker by Boffel
Pm me to add your games...

Games in progress by frihosters:
Lament of a Pactkeeper: - http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=32 - By wombatrpgs
Aeons Tales: - http://www.enygmasoft.com/aeons.htm - By enygmasoft
Pm me to add your games...

resources

Free game builders/Editors
Game Maker - www.yoyogames.com
RPGMAKER XP - http://www.enterbrain.co.jp/tkool/RPG_XP/eng/index.html
DarkBasic - http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com
3D RPG Builder - www.3d-rpgbuilder.com (Only beta)
Blitz - http://www.blitzbasic.com

Paid game builders/Editors
Game Maker Premium version - www.yoyogames.com
Adobe flash - http://www.adobe.com/products/flash
Silent Walk - http://www.silentworks.hu

Sound and music
Free sound effects and music: http://sounddogs.com
Free sound effects: http://www.grsites.com/archive/sounds

Free tools and plug ins
Anim8or: 3d modeler and animator - www.anim8or.com
Blender: 3d modeler and animator - http://www.blender.org

Gimp: Image manipulation program - http://www.gimp.org
GAP: Animation program (Download page at gimps site)
Inkscape: Vector graphics editor (like illustrator) http://www.inkscape.org

Anvil Studio: Compose, record and sequence sounds http://www.anvilstudio.com
Audacity: Record and edit sounds http://audacity.sourceforge.net

__________________________________________________________________________

Please tell us which programs and tools you use for your game creation, and where you get your music and sound from. Also say what more you want to come on this topic, this can be useful for yourself and others. Wink
rightclickscott
I find my experience lies in writing scripts for games. I've already written several commisioned scripts that have gone into little known games. I'm currently on the writing staff for the Press Start to Play game.
ShawnKelfonne
I've been working on a game with RPGMaker XP for some time now, even used the design for it as my final project in my Game Design class. I find the hardest part about making a game is getting all the graphics work done. Especially in an RPG where the characters all need sprite animations, portraits, animations for special attacks, and so on, not to even start mentioning the pain that comes along with monster design and tileset work.

That said, I do like working with RPGMaker XP, since it offers a lot more flexibility than the earlier versions, because of the RGSS scripting. I can modify menus and the battle screens to look exactly how I want them, instead of having to rely on the defaults, or make an entire system from scratch.
B4_Utopia
I do a bit of Flash stuff. I reckon flash a great program for starting off because Actionscript is easy to learn and you can do all your game's animations and drawings and stuff in the one program!
It also gives you a basic understanding of how all games work like about variables and hit tests.
Boffel
Nice all Very Happy

I have now also made a list of recomended gamemakers. Feel free to recomend other gamemakers, and I can add it to the list. Also please give me the link to the sites you recomend. Wink

Link to your games is also a good idea. Here you can get good responce for it.
Nameless
I used to use an old program Klick and Play... but it really sucked. I've done a number of games with Game Maker, of varying quality (link if anyone is interested) - I'd recommend Game Maker to most people, since it is fairly easy to pick up the basics with a tutorial or two, and you can make some pretty advanced stuff in it if you're good. It does have a few limitations (mostly regarding 3D), but it can do mostly anything.
Loghete
I started with Game Maker for I don't know how many years ago. I've kinda stopped using it now, I've moved on to Blitz
(http://www.blitzbasic.com/), and I really like it. I haven't made any game with it yet, but I'm working on 2 for the moment; one 2D for a contest here on Frihost, and one 3D which you can read about here.
Runite
I've tried it once. I made it using the Elysium game engine (http://splamm.com/elysium/). It failed. :/
ShawnKelfonne
I'd also suggest that people with a bit more programming experience look into the Pygame tools at www.pygame.org
It's a site all about making games in Python, so if using a game maker isn't for you, or is a bit too restricting, it's a good place to check out. I might just move my project over to Python just to give me that extra degree of freedom.
Boffel
Cool programs all!

Nameless:
Your site looks interesting, and its some realy nice games there. But I think your site still need some work (my own site to...)Wink
And I have to agree that Game Maker is a very good and easy program to use, but also limited in 3D games. But you can still get some nice 3D games out of it.

Loghete:
The start of your 3D game looks good, but you should add some more screenshots and info about the game. Wink
Anyway, Blitz looks cool and I added it to the recomended list.

Runite:
Sad Sad... But you can still try one of the other gamemakers Smile

ShawnKelfonne:
Good you have something for the experienced gamemakers to. Now I also added proramming languages to the list. (Your and C++)
Eclipse
Sadly, I crashed and burned trying to make a game with C++. It was a good RPG until I tried adding magic -_-...

It's been about 2 years since I picked it up now. I'm thinking about picking up RPG Maker and trying that. I might just try something you have suggested up above too.

If I get a site on here (which I wish too) then I will hopefully put my games up for free. Can you charge for your game if you make it with game maker? I doubt anyone would pay for it but if it's one of excellent quality (say about 100+ hours of work) then it would seem reasonable. At least to me it would. Thoughts?
mattchun
My university roomate made an RPG game by somekind software in his PC, I have to say its very very nice.
Boffel
Eclipse: Yes, I think its realy possible to get money out of gamemaker. One way could be make alot of small games, convert all to java with a convert program called g-java. Then upload them to your site so you can play the games in your browser. Then you can get a popular site and put adsl on it. Then you can get money for the adsl.

Or another:
Make an mmorpg (need dll. codes to), then make a member world that you have to pay for.

And:
Make a very good game with good graphics, and sell your game. (This is the hardest way)

mattchun:
Do you know what program he/she used?
Eclipse
Well, it might take some research but it may be worth a shot. I don't know, I've heard bad things about putting ads on sites that you own.

Anyway, the last option is kind of what I was talking about. But can you do something like this with a game-maker or would there be something legal restricting you from it?
Boffel
Nothing legal restricting you from it. In many gamemaking forums, its even a - how to sell your games? forum.

In Game Maker, you can do anything you want with your game. Just that if you havent registered, it will come up a Game Maker banner while the game is loading. Very Happy
Yjaxygames
I use Gamemaker too and I'm very happy with it. It takes some time to know enough to make a great game but it's not too hard.
Boffel
Thats nice Very Happy Its not very hard, but later when your going over to GML its alot to calculate, and its take alot of time.

But 2D games is always easy there. (Purhaps not for begginers...) Very Happy
Boffel
Now I also added a poll, so vote now! Very Happy

This can help beginners to see what gamemaker that is the best. Smile
Nameless
Yeah, um, the obvious problem with that is that certain game creating programs are designed for specific purposes (eg. RPGMaker is great for traditional RPGs, but useless if you're trying to make a top down shooter) and the easiest game creators for beginners aren't neccessarily the best ones for long, serious projects etc.

I still stand by Game Maker as a good 'all rounder', as it were. Basic functions are still easy for newbies, advanced functions and GML are great for experienced, and it can do pretty much all game genres fairly well.
Loghete
Boffel wrote:
Loghete:
The start of your 3D game looks good, but you should add some more screenshots and info about the game. Wink
Anyway, Blitz looks cool and I added it to the recomended list.


Well, I do this because I don't want to give out the gameplay before I'm getting more finished with it. I have an unique idea which I don't want to be stolen before I release my game.. lol

EDIT: We should get this topic official...
william
Well, I've made several games, launched a few (usually I start a game, get bored, and quit Razz ). I've made games in Game Maker, Blitz, RPG Maker XP, javascript, java, flash, C++, and a couple others. I personally enjoy designing games. Most games I make are just for fun. A lot of people told me that I should start selling the games but, of course, I have no time to start selling. It's just a hobby, and for those of you who don't make games, I'd highly recommend you try it out.
ShawnKelfonne
william wrote:
Well, I've made several games, launched a few (usually I start a game, get bored, and quit Razz ). I've made games in Game Maker, Blitz, RPG Maker XP, javascript, java, flash, C++, and a couple others. I personally enjoy designing games. Most games I make are just for fun. A lot of people told me that I should start selling the games but, of course, I have no time to start selling. It's just a hobby, and for those of you who don't make games, I'd highly recommend you try it out.


It is a fun hobby, and it can be a lot of fun to see something you've spent hard work and a lot of time on come to life, but you've got to remember that just like any other hobby, it's not for everyone.

For anyone thinking about starting a game project, please take the time to get your ideas down on paper and organized before you bother starting your project. Show your ideas to others, and get lame things weeded out before you start. I can't even count anymore how many times I see people announcing a project that's a big crossover of so many different licensed properties, or that uses celebrity names and steals storylines from other places.. something you just know will be doomed to failure even before it starts.
LostOverThere
Yeah, I make Games with Loghete, We both "own" a company called Cheese Games.

We have a Nice "little" forum, and a great community, I dunno about Loghete, but I make games for them. Smile

I use Game Maker 6.1 for my work (don't laugh), though, I'm into more the advanced side of it.

The Best Part of Game Making, I say, is Picking out the Music and Design, of Course, oh and any new Game Makers.


Write your idea's out on Paper first and ask yourself these questions:

    •Is this Possible For Me? Is it to hard for Me to Make?
    •Will this be a fun game to play?
    •Is there much Competition out there?



Oh, and if anyone is using GM and gets stuck, Just Ask me either here on in a PM, thanks! Very Happy
Boffel
Quote:

For anyone thinking about starting a game project, please take the time to get your ideas down on paper and organized before you bother starting your project. Show your ideas to others, and get lame things weeded out before you start. I can't even count anymore how many times I see people announcing a project that's a big crossover of so many different licensed properties, or that uses celebrity names and steals storylines from other places.. something you just know will be doomed to failure even before it starts.


Quote:
Write your idea's out on Paper first and ask yourself these questions:

•Is this Possible For Me? Is it to hard for Me to Make?
•Will this be a fun game to play?
•Is there much Competition out there?


Yes, this information is realy important if you planing to make a game. If you not have done this first, the game could be very boring, and you stop making it, or it can take very long time before you get new ideas. And it could also be to hard for you etc...

This is specially important if your gonna create big games.
LostOverThere
Oh, and Start off Small, and work your way up to bigger and more advance projects!


Oh, and here's a few screenshots of my uncoming game, Pivot, in which you play as a stick figure in a colourful world. It is an adventure/Exploration Game.

Title Screen (Pretty Boring)



Meadow Level (Still a Lot Of Work Needed)



As You Can see, theres a lot of work needed to be done, but its getting there.

You can find more information and Screenshots located at the Official Pivot Page, and the Cheese Games Forums
wombatrpgs
EVENTUALLY my website will be devoted to Rpgmaker 2000 and other methods of RPG creation, (mainly C for textrpgs or such, maybe Java if I get better at it...) but right now I haven't made any method of hosting games/distribution or actually completed any games so far.

Most I have is Team Adventure 2, made for my brother, in which you play a small group of kids who stumble upon a portal into a dimension in which they become involved. Kind of present-time setting, but still use rather medieval weapons.
The game starts low scale: things such as moving around a small hedge maze, finding things for a friend, but eventually you enter a Zelda-like sequence of temples, ranging from the basic RM2K battle to later temples involving huge, complex puzzles and difficult logical challenges. I'll be done in maybe three to six months. My only fear is that the game will appear too kiddy in the openning segments and people will stop playing...
Yjaxygames
LostOverThere, are you promoting your site? Wink
Well anyway, Cheesegames is a pretty nice community actually, I am a member too. [/offtopic]

Let's also talk about the -points of all programs. For example, gamemakers weaknesses are that the game will be pretty big and is not very powerfull.
wombatrpgs
So many with RPGmaker 2000... No freedom with battle coding, limitted to a map system, many difficult functions that take a while to do things any language can do... Really annoyed at lack of arrays and actual code and stuff. At least game is small...

Its almost half the challenge to work around these difficulties. I don't know why I just give up, but I guess its just handy to have all of the graphics handled for you; get the basics down. You can work around most of these things with difficulty, its pretty fun to see how far you can push limits. I almost had a half-decent side-scrolling shooter a while back...
LostOverThere
I really like Game Maker, mainly because its ease of use, its also good for more advanced people, as you can work with DLL's, Extension Library's, and of course GML.

Though, as Yjaxygames said, the filezies are quite large, and well, check out this post, by garionw, also a member of Frihost.
Yjaxygames
And I just read this on www.gamemaker.nl

"BREAKING NEWS"
Quote:
I am very excited to announce that I am partnering with YoYo Games for the further development and distribution of Game Maker.

YoYo Games is a new company based in the UK, setup by a group of former and current game industry execs, including Sandy Duncan, former head of Xbox in Europe. I am one of the directors of YoYo Games and will be supervising the further development of Game Maker there.

As everybody knows the time I could devote to Game Maker was limited because of my additional position at Utrecht University. This was hampering the development and the service I could provide to the community. YoYo Games has the resources to make Game Maker into an even bigger success.

With the release of version 7.0 of Game Maker in February, YoYo Games will also make a significant investment in the number and quality of online services. These new services will be committed entirely to the Game Maker community. They will build on the existing base and provide several important and exciting new features including the ability to have your finished games published online for free with unlimited access for people who want to play, review and discuss your games on the website. They will also provide a much extended help system and support for the sharing of resources, etc. And we of course want to hear from you what other features you would want.

See http://www.yoyogames.com for a glimpse of what the new site will look like and for further information about the vision and plans of YoYo Games. We will provide more information about the developments in the near future.

Mark Overmars


I have no idea what to expect but it sounds pretty imporant for GM's future.

And, not to forget, 1 of the GameMaker veterans (GearGod, a very 'famous' guy in the GM world Razz) has announced to stop using GameMaker because it's not efficient enough to make games.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
So many with RPGmaker 2000... No freedom with battle coding, limitted to a map system, many difficult functions that take a while to do things any language can do... Really annoyed at lack of arrays and actual code and stuff. At least game is small...

Its almost half the challenge to work around these difficulties. I don't know why I just give up, but I guess its just handy to have all of the graphics handled for you; get the basics down. You can work around most of these things with difficulty, its pretty fun to see how far you can push limits. I almost had a half-decent side-scrolling shooter a while back...


If you're going to use one of the RPGMaker Series, I'd suggest going with XP. Certainly, there's a smaller pool of resources to pick from, but it is the only one officially translated and released into English, and it has much more flexibility because of the script editing. Plus, the higher resolution makes it look much nicer, like so:
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
If you're going to use one of the RPGMaker Series, I'd suggest going with XP. Certainly, there's a smaller pool of resources to pick from, but it is the only one officially translated and released into English, and it has much more flexibility because of the script editing. Plus, the higher resolution makes it look much nicer, like so:


I'd personally rather use RM2k, mainly because of the low resolution, allowing me, with less than par graphical skills, to still use paint to some effect editting / creating custom graphics. 256 color feels nicer for the games I try to make, as an old-school style of game. With higher resolution and color, it makes a game feel more oriented towards graphics. With the limitted scope of the series, RMXP's graphics provide too high expectations for a 2d RPG.

Although script editting would make my life a LOT easier, its too hard to switch with 9+ months invested.
LostOverThere
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.
Loghete
LostOverThere wrote:
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.


Sadly, that's not true...
Yjaxygames
Loghete wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.


Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.
Loghete
Yjaxygames wrote:
Loghete wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.


Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.


Ah.

But still, it's almost impossible to make a good-looking fps...
enygmasoft
Nice to see I have an interesting new forum, for me anyways. My whole website is designed with all this is mind.

http://www.enygmasoft.com

I tried a few of those gamemaking progarms, but they were all to limiting, which is why I decided to take big leap and start coding my own games. Darkbasic fell in my lap, I fell in love with the potential it had, with limitations other than the hardware being used to code.

That allowed me the freedom to do anything. I loved the ability to create the entire game from scratch, but they have incredibly helpful tutorials. Dark Basic Pro was released with Full Direct X 9.0 support. Including shaders, multiplayer gaming. It left me with all the freedom in the world. Granted its not cheap, but they have a ginormoues amount of game specific functions to make my programming life so much easier. I dont have to spend time trying to code file loaders, to use .bmp and .x files and the countless other file types that are needed to do a game. It nice enough to allow you to hurt youtself using Memblocks if you like that kind of torture, but results are extremly impressive in the increased framerates you see. It supports AI plugins and Physics plugins now. New aquisitions of mine. Still dont have the time to play with them too much, but there is big boom in my game design future, without the headache of alll the functions that I would need to get the job done myself.
Loghete
enygmasoft wrote:
Nice to see I have an interesting new forum, for me anyways. My whole website is designed with all this is mind.

http://www.enygmasoft.com

I tried a few of those gamemaking progarms, but they were all to limiting, which is why I decided to take big leap and start coding my own games. Darkbasic fell in my lap, I fell in love with the potential it had, with limitations other than the hardware being used to code.

That allowed me the freedom to do anything. I loved the ability to create the entire game from scratch, but they have incredibly helpful tutorials. Dark Basic Pro was released with Full Direct X 9.0 support. Including shaders, multiplayer gaming. It left me with all the freedom in the world. Granted its not cheap, but they have a ginormoues amount of game specific functions to make my programming life so much easier. I dont have to spend time trying to code file loaders, to use .bmp and .x files and the countless other file types that are needed to do a game. It nice enough to allow you to hurt youtself using Memblocks if you like that kind of torture, but results are extremly impressive in the increased framerates you see. It supports AI plugins and Physics plugins now. New aquisitions of mine. Still dont have the time to play with them too much, but there is big boom in my game design future, without the headache of alll the functions that I would need to get the job done myself.


Well, in Blitz you pretty work "from scratch" like in Dark Basic. Actually it isn't completely from scratch in any of those, but it's enough for me.
enygmasoft
Loghete wrote:


Well, in Blitz you pretty work "from scratch" like in Dark Basic. Actually it isn't completely from scratch in any of those, but it's enough for me.


I agree, I makes the project so much more manageable for one person, but I don't see how enjoyable coding bmp file loaders is, thanx to Dark Basic. Dark Basic Pro serves as a shell over Direct X, which is great. I dont have to worry about all those enjoyable direct x calls just waiting to mess up.

I'm not too familiar with Blitz, by the time I heard about it I had already a considerable investment in Dark Basic Programming. Does Blitz support Object Oriented programming? Dark Basic does not. I had been hoping that would happen with Direct X 10 DB pro, but it looks like I'll have to wait.
LostOverThere
Yjaxygames wrote:
Loghete wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.


Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.



Yeah, that's what I meant, but, Loghete, you are right as well, GM isn't great with 3D Games, But is possible.
Yjaxygames
But FPS games are generally hard too make in any program. Graphics and gameplay will never reach great quality with any of these programs, I suppose. If you compare it to other free FPS games.
LostOverThere
Yeah, FPS rely on Smooth and clean Looking graphics.
And Good enemy programming, so its usually fairly hard to make a decent one.
Yjaxygames
LostOverThere wrote:
Yeah, FPS rely on Smooth and clean Looking graphics.
And Good enemy programming, so its usually fairly hard to make a decent one.


I forgot the enemies Razz Thanks for saying Smile
enygmasoft
Yjaxygames wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
Yeah, FPS rely on Smooth and clean Looking graphics.
And Good enemy programming, so its usually fairly hard to make a decent one.


I forgot the enemies Razz Thanks for saying Smile


AI is time consuming and math intensive. You really have to have a strong math foudation to get the job done. Its on par with the physics Engine design.
Yjaxygames
enygmasoft wrote:
Yjaxygames wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
Yeah, FPS rely on Smooth and clean Looking graphics.
And Good enemy programming, so its usually fairly hard to make a decent one.


I forgot the enemies Razz Thanks for saying Smile


AI is time consuming and math intensive. You really have to have a strong math foudation to get the job done. Its on par with the physics Engine design.


About what program are you talking?
wombatrpgs
Yjaxygames wrote:
Loghete wrote:

Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.


I don't think in RPGmaker you are really limitted to RPGs. I've created and seen a few puzzle games and adventure games. Its system, yes is designed for RPGs but once you get used to it you can owrk around some areas.
Yjaxygames
wombatrpgs wrote:
Yjaxygames wrote:
Loghete wrote:

Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.


I don't think in RPGmaker you are really limitted to RPGs. I've created and seen a few puzzle games and adventure games. Its system, yes is designed for RPGs but once you get used to it you can owrk around some areas.


You can't make a good platform game or RTS or scrolling shooters with it...
LostOverThere
In any language its hard to program an enemy AI, well, at least a realistic on anyway.
wombatrpgs
LostOverThere wrote:
In any language its hard to program an enemy AI, well, at least a realistic on anyway.


That, I think, is one of the more fun aspects of designing a game. I've made some pretty good routines for a tactics game for obstacle avoidance, priority, and a few other things. Its hard to do, admittedly, but still fun to make. (But not to debug...)
LostOverThere
Its incredibly annoying and funny when the enemy AI doesn't work properly, goes to the wrong space, you just plain gets stuck and starts vibrating.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
Yjaxygames wrote:
Loghete wrote:

Sadly, that's not true...


I think he meant that you can create any type of game you want, in RPGMaker you can only make RPGs.


I don't think in RPGmaker you are really limitted to RPGs. I've created and seen a few puzzle games and adventure games. Its system, yes is designed for RPGs but once you get used to it you can owrk around some areas.


True, but you can also try to pound nails in with your fist. A hammer works much better though.

You CAN make other types of games in RPGMaker, but there's pretty much no reason to unless you get some satisfaction out of doing things in ways much harder than are necessary.
enygmasoft
Yjaxygames wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
Yjaxygames wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
Yeah, FPS rely on Smooth and clean Looking graphics.
And Good enemy programming, so its usually fairly hard to make a decent one.


I forgot the enemies Razz Thanks for saying Smile


AI is time consuming and math intensive. You really have to have a strong math foudation to get the job done. Its on par with the physics Engine design.


About what program are you talking?


With any program that wants to simulate Phyisics, and Artificial Intelligence. While most games today Implent Physics simulation, All games require Artificial Intellingence. If it reacts it has to know how and there is the AI that created to get the job done.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:

True, but you can also try to pound nails in with your fist. A hammer works much better though.

You CAN make other types of games in RPGMaker, but there's pretty much no reason to unless you get some satisfaction out of doing things in ways much harder than are necessary.


And yes, I do seem to enjoy stretching the limits of the system. I should probably switch to something that allows actual code, but I guess I'm too caught up in my curretn project to switch...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
ShawnKelfonne wrote:

True, but you can also try to pound nails in with your fist. A hammer works much better though.

You CAN make other types of games in RPGMaker, but there's pretty much no reason to unless you get some satisfaction out of doing things in ways much harder than are necessary.


And yes, I do seem to enjoy stretching the limits of the system. I should probably switch to something that allows actual code, but I guess I'm too caught up in my curretn project to switch...


That what I was afraid of, which why I went with DArk Basic.
LostOverThere
What's Darkbasic like? I heard it runs at a very low resolution and has a horrible interface.
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
What's Darkbasic like? I heard it runs at a very low resolution and has a horrible interface.


There 2 versions
the older of the 2 is DarkBasic
The IDE needs alot of work, but they are nice enough to have a few free user interfaces for it. but its true the default one is low res and attrocious
but functional. It supports Direct X 8.1. This versions stopped being updated 4 years ago. and its the cheaper of the 2 and its less functional. The website sell a lite verision for $15

Dark Basic Professional is light years beyond DarkBasic. The defualt IDE is great. It fully supports Direct X 9.0c, with full shader and Multiplayer support. It supports more media formats than DarkBasic and allows you to modify everything that you within your prgram, from the icon up.
Additionally, Dark Basic uses an Interpreter to run code, makeing it much slower than DarkBasic Professional, which compiles full machine code.
It's light years faster than its predecessor.
mynameis
Does no one use XNA I think thats the best its soo easy i picked up C# in a week!! its good!
enygmasoft
mynameis wrote:
Does no one use XNA I think thats the best its soo easy i picked up C# in a week!! its good!


I'm not familiar with "XNA" is that a C# compiler?
mynameis
no its not what Xna is a load of code libraries (lots of useful code) that you can freely incorporate into your own code for example like there's a game pad code file that easily allows you to have a gamepad option in your games and all you have to do is use a using microsoft.xna.framework.gamepad; statement or what ever you want and reference it somewhere in your code oh and c# is just the compiler associated with Xna you can use any microsoft visual IDE such as Visual basic or visual c++ if you want.. the best thing is its completely free and supports development for both PC, Vista and Xbox 360

just go to http://msdn.microsoft.com/xna its amazing the amount of free software you can get from Microsoft!! Very Happy Very Happy
wombatrpgs
I can actually code pretty well in C and Java but it seems to be that the Maker programs just make my life a whole lot easier. Although it doesn't work trying to stretch the limits too far... I guess I jsut don't have the time to really code anything from the ground up, so maybe a library would work as those functions can be editted as needed to work with my specifications. (If XNA is open source and not precompiled libraries. If those even exist...)
fashioncrimewave
I knew a littel OpenGL, so I started working through some tutorials with DirectX online. Oddly, I think (for me) 2D graphics are harder than 3D, because I can make a 3D model fairly easily and render it in OpenGL, but my art skills suck. It seems like everything hinges on scripting anyway, so why not use a system like RPGMaker, rather than starting from scratch and writing your own script engine?
enygmasoft
fashioncrimewave wrote:
I knew a littel OpenGL, so I started working through some tutorials with DirectX online. Oddly, I think (for me) 2D graphics are harder than 3D, because I can make a 3D model fairly easily and render it in OpenGL, but my art skills suck. It seems like everything hinges on scripting anyway, so why not use a system like RPGMaker, rather than starting from scratch and writing your own script engine?


That why I use darkBasic, becuase Its an excellent functions for the game designer in mind, which means you dont have to create all the countlss number of functions that are needed to get any game moving. The freedom with the full programming is still uncomparable.

In terms of game quality graphics, I am inclined to agree with you. However, if we start heading on another tangent and look 3D movies like toy story, I would have to diagree. Overall, I find It both are neccesary apps to get graphics polished. Tricks of the trade, with art work is to scan pictures, but I can draw, my problem is time, because I dont do this too often, My hands don't work like they should. I can do disney movie quality art, but I would be a bad animator. I can't copy things exaclty as that sort or art requires, which is why I need 3D programs to do all that

In terms of ease of 3d modeling I can tell you from experience that you spend far less time modeling the entire model, if you draw Image planes for the model. It's forces your mind to to work with the details, and you dont spend twice as long looking around your model for precise point placement.
ShawnKelfonne
XNA is Microsoft's API for doing DirectX game programming, focused heavily on the XBox Live Arcade side of things. There was a lot of articles some time ago about the "XNA Express" where people could pay $100 or so to have a license, and then they would be able to develop games with the XNA Studio that they could post on XBL. Only other people with access to the XNA studio though would be able to play them.
mynameis
you only have to pay £100 if you want to join the Xna creators club which gives you alot of sample code which is apparently very useful this membership allows you to develop for the 360 and also publish games on the 360 which, sadly is only available for download for other members of the creators club.. but don't let this put you off developing games using Xna as the all of the software are available off Microsoft.com for free including the C# IDE the direct x SDK (software development kit) which includes very handy tools graphics and sound and developing and publishing games for PC is completely free and much better as its treated in very much the same way as all other programs (with an installer) like proper games..

surely this is how real developers create games!
LostOverThere
Ok, Lets talk about elements in Games, what is the most important element in a game to you and why!?

To me, Music can make or break a game, try playing Heavy Metal music in the Sims, instead of its normal music, really wrecks the game.

Also, Design Design Design! I Don't care who you are, Design must be more important then graphics.
Yjaxygames
LostOverThere wrote:
Ok, Lets talk about elements in Games, what is the most important element in a game to you and why!?

To me, Music can make or break a game, try playing Heavy Metal music in the Sims, instead of its normal music, really wrecks the game.

Also, Design Design Design! I Don't care who you are, Design must be more important then graphics.


A combination. The interface has to be good, and in a commercial game graphics are also very important. And gameplay of course.
Because most free games I know (made in gamemaker) will never have great effective graphics. So gameplay is most important then. Music is also important, but most games have good enough music.
mynameis
I think playability is a very important aspect in a game one very important element in Gears of War is that the characters flow so easily in and out and around cover, if you couldn't do that then they couldn't have such a low health on the character and it would take that level of intensity out of the game. Which is why most people play the multilayer as you literally crap your pants playing it and if your not then your not playing it properly.. its sooo intense sometimes Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
ShawnKelfonne
LostOverThere wrote:
Ok, Lets talk about elements in Games, what is the most important element in a game to you and why!?

To me, Music can make or break a game, try playing Heavy Metal music in the Sims, instead of its normal music, really wrecks the game.

Also, Design Design Design! I Don't care who you are, Design must be more important then graphics.


Yes. Design is so very important. In fact, when you're planning on making a game, you should probably write up a design document, even if you're not planning on submitting your game to a publisher. At the very least, writing up a design document is a good way to show yourself that you've got everything planned out and accounted for before you even start making it.

Also, don't be afraid of sharing the basics of your design with others, to hear what their opinions on the matter are. Just because something sounds great to you, doesn't mean it will work well when released to the public.
jynxanims
I've been using GameMaker for 2 years now. I code my games in complete GML though I NEVER get around to finishing them. I haven't alot of patience I guess....
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
Ok, Lets talk about elements in Games, what is the most important element in a game to you and why!?

To me, Music can make or break a game, try playing Heavy Metal music in the Sims, instead of its normal music, really wrecks the game.

Also, Design Design Design! I Don't care who you are, Design must be more important then graphics.



That very true that music is extremely important, but for those of use that don't have a the budget of millions for graphics, then I can see those have to be functional, but not as icing intensive as our publishing house competion. As long as graphics surpass N64, its good for us free developers. Game design is far more important, which is where we can shine.
Josso
Used to code in DarkBASIC - I really enjoy programming, especially game making and would like to go back to it.
linkman2004
I originally used to dabble in game making. I had a free copy of DarkBasic once(using the awesomeness of homeschooling to get a free copy Razz), and It wasn't to bad, although I never quite understood it, and it's graphical features were underwhelming, to say the least. Confused

So, I decided to get the Blitz3D demo, and I actually managed to put out a few small program things with that while learning it. But, like DarkBasic, I still couldn't quite grasp some things, and I couldn't do some more advanced things. Guess I'm just not much of a programmer. Sad

Now making new maps for games like Jedi Academy, on the other hand, that's definitely more for me. Although I'm not really sure if it counts as game making. Razz
votd
I've started with The Games Factory, because it was in my favourite computer magazine (full version, bundled not for commercial). I've created some games, but it was crap Laughing. Well not completely, but crap :].

Next was RPG Maker 95, I was amazed, because I've always wanted to make jRPG like Final Fantasy, I had 56kbps modem back then, so imagine how long it took to download a shitload of 5mb data:D.

RPG Maker 95 was good, but it was too small for me, so I've downloaded something like RPG Maker 2003. Woah! I've created some serious games with this. Next was RPG Maker XP. It got me bored and I've put it away. Anyways, the only one RPG Maker that I haven't tried was RPG Maker 2000, nothing special, really...
enygmasoft
votd wrote:
I've started with The Games Factory, because it was in my favourite computer magazine (full version, bundled not for commercial). I've created some games, but it was crap Laughing. Well not completely, but crap :].

Next was RPG Maker 95, I was amazed, because I've always wanted to make jRPG like Final Fantasy, I had 56kbps modem back then, so imagine how long it took to download a shitload of 5mb data:D.

RPG Maker 95 was good, but it was too small for me, so I've downloaded something like RPG Maker 2003. Woah! I've created some serious games with this. Next was RPG Maker XP. It got me bored and I've put it away. Anyways, the only one RPG Maker that I haven't tried was RPG Maker 2000, nothing special, really...


I tried RPG Maker and I wass put off by their really less than impressive SNES graphics, and really limited graphics capabilities.
ShawnKelfonne
As far as the RPGMaker series goes, I think the most amusing version I've ever used was the PSX version, simply called "RPG Maker". It was nothing special, and was obviously limited by both the size of a memory card, as well as the fact that you couldn't really import new graphics. (You could make your own, but just try drawing sprites with a PSX controller. HAHAHA).

The saving grace of the whole thing though, was the fact that the sample game included along with it was completely ridiculous.

Rather than playing as a group of heroes going out to save the world from some unknown evil or whatnot, you instead played as a single goblin, whose job it normally was to go out and get stomped by the heroes so they could gain experience and level up. Unsatisfied with this role in life, the young goblin decides that he'd rather NOT lose to the heroes, and starts to gather a party to help himself with that.

It was amusing.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
As far as the RPGMaker series goes, I think the most amusing version I've ever used was the PSX version, simply called "RPG Maker". It was nothing special, and was obviously limited by both the size of a memory card, as well as the fact that you couldn't really import new graphics. (You could make your own, but just try drawing sprites with a PSX controller. HAHAHA).

The saving grace of the whole thing though, was the fact that the sample game included along with it was completely ridiculous.

Rather than playing as a group of heroes going out to save the world from some unknown evil or whatnot, you instead played as a single goblin, whose job it normally was to go out and get stomped by the heroes so they could gain experience and level up. Unsatisfied with this role in life, the young goblin decides that he'd rather NOT lose to the heroes, and starts to gather a party to help himself with that.

It was amusing.


I did no try that one, but yup sprite animation on psx controler, is not fun.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
As far as the RPGMaker series goes, I think the most amusing version I've ever used was the PSX version, simply called "RPG Maker". It was nothing special, and was obviously limited by both the size of a memory card, as well as the fact that you couldn't really import new graphics. (You could make your own, but just try drawing sprites with a PSX controller. HAHAHA).


I didn't think much of the PS versions... Custom graphics and MIDIs really helped the PC versions, and there was a lot more ways to make a non-standard RPG.
Boffel
Just a cool thing to know for those who make games with gamemaker.

Do you know about the java converter G-Java, that convert gm6. files to java? Because gm7 not will suport G-Java and other converters TGMG (The G-Java creator) will re-make gamemaker, so you can save your games as java!

The room editor will be exactly the same, but the object editor will change a bit. The scripting language will also be almost the same as GML is now, so it will not be hard to switch.

And the best of all... Its gonna be COMPLITELY FREE!

You can read more about it here: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2530

This can also be usefull for those who not make games with gamemaker, I have newer find and easier Java gamemaker then what this gonna be.
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Just a cool thing to know for those who make games with gamemaker.

Do you know about the java converter G-Java, that convert gm6. files to java? Because gm7 not will suport G-Java and other converters TGMG (The G-Java creator) will re-make gamemaker, so you can save your games as java!

The room editor will be exactly the same, but the object editor will change a bit. The scripting language will also be almost the same as GML is now, so it will not be hard to switch.

And the best of all... Its gonna be COMPLITELY FREE!

You can read more about it here: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2530

This can also be usefull for those who not make games with gamemaker, I have newer find and easier Java gamemaker then what this gonna be.


That's what great about java is the cross platform capbilities, however they do come at a big cost in terems of slowness of operation, because Java has to be interpreted, which is how it works on man different platforms, by interpreted language, its slows down program execution. Not good for games, which are cpu intensive anyway, but 2D games dont really suffer to much, but its the 3d realms, this is a big bottle neck.
LostOverThere
No way, G-Java is horribly crippled and lame, AFAIK, G-Java cant even support Variables in games, and the only alternative is G-Flash, which is even worse. Sad
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
No way, G-Java is horribly crippled and lame, AFAIK, G-Java cant even support Variables in games, and the only alternative is G-Flash, which is even worse. Sad


I am not too familiar with G-Java, but how can it be in any way useful to script if variables aren't allowed? What does it allow?
enygmasoft
Josso wrote:
Used to code in DarkBASIC - I really enjoy programming, especially game making and would like to go back to it.


DB Pro is worth its wieght in gold, and will make your programming life more enjoyable.
wombatrpgs
Running into a problem making my RPG... You can carry four characters in a party, but I have sixteen playable characters total. You're supposed to assign them into groups of four every dugneon and split up the work. Only problem is, its very hard to any character development as I don't know who's in your party at any given time. Hard to carry on conversations this way! Only thing I can think of to do is add either support conversations, or else mandatory character areas. Any ideas?
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Running into a problem making my RPG... You can carry four characters in a party, but I have sixteen playable characters total. You're supposed to assign them into groups of four every dugneon and split up the work. Only problem is, its very hard to any character development as I don't know who's in your party at any given time. Hard to carry on conversations this way! Only thing I can think of to do is add either support conversations, or else mandatory character areas. Any ideas?


Certaijnly forcing character development, thru is certanly far easier to flesh out. It impossible to leave completly open, because some one might find a character they dont like and never use, so you have useless script
for characters that may not be used at all.
Boffel
enygmasoft wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
No way, G-Java is horribly crippled and lame, AFAIK, G-Java cant even support Variables in games, and the only alternative is G-Flash, which is even worse. Sad


I am not too familiar with G-Java, but how can it be in any way useful to script if variables aren't allowed? What does it allow?


Actions and events: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1022

Codes: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=2358&st=0#entry6698

And also remember that G-Java is a WIP project, so I think it soon will accept variables to.

What is bad with G-Java? Do you dont want your games to be playable in your browser? Thats alot cooler, then you can even play your own games at school! (Because most schools doesnt allow you to download stuff)
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:

Certaijnly forcing character development, thru is certanly far easier to flesh out. It impossible to leave completly open, because some one might find a character they dont like and never use, so you have useless script
for characters that may not be used at all.


I don't mind the extra work required to make a character. The game is meant to be replayable, which is why its mainly padding on a rather simple plot: You could rush-play it in about eight hours, but to fully unravel everything it takes a good deal longer. I don't really think someone would decide simply not to use a character because of the way the system is set up. The less characters you use, the less manpower you have. You can switch parties at many points in a dungeon, so the longer you can go depends on the characters in those parties. Experience is determined based on who is in the party as well, not how much work that character put in, so levelling shouldnt be difficult. And sidequests are there to make it less of a chore.
Boffel
fashioncrimewave wrote:
I knew a littel OpenGL, so I started working through some tutorials with DirectX online. Oddly, I think (for me) 2D graphics are harder than 3D, because I can make a 3D model fairly easily and render it in OpenGL, but my art skills suck. It seems like everything hinges on scripting anyway, so why not use a system like RPGMaker, rather than starting from scratch and writing your own script engine?


Well... 3d games is alot harder to code then 2d games, but i have to agree that im also bad in art skill. So when I make 2d games, I just take screenshots from 3d models because i am so bad in art skill.

But when you are going to start using a gamemaker, you most also find one that is not very limited to actions. And you also have to be able to understand
how to use it.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:

Certaijnly forcing character development, thru is certanly far easier to flesh out. It impossible to leave completly open, because some one might find a character they dont like and never use, so you have useless script
for characters that may not be used at all.


I don't mind the extra work required to make a character. The game is meant to be replayable, which is why its mainly padding on a rather simple plot: You could rush-play it in about eight hours, but to fully unravel everything it takes a good deal longer. I don't really think someone would decide simply not to use a character because of the way the system is set up. The less characters you use, the less manpower you have. You can switch parties at many points in a dungeon, so the longer you can go depends on the characters in those parties. Experience is determined based on who is in the party as well, not how much work that character put in, so levelling shouldnt be difficult. And sidequests are there to make it less of a chore.


you could also use the side quest to force certain goups and serve to make it impossible to have characters that are not being used.
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
No way, G-Java is horribly crippled and lame, AFAIK, G-Java cant even support Variables in games, and the only alternative is G-Flash, which is even worse. Sad


I am not too familiar with G-Java, but how can it be in any way useful to script if variables aren't allowed? What does it allow?


Actions and events: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1022

Codes: http://www.g-java.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=2358&st=0#entry6698

And also remember that G-Java is a WIP project, so I think it soon will accept variables to.

What is bad with G-Java? Do you dont want your games to be playable in your browser? Thats alot cooler, then you can even play your own games at school! (Because most schools doesnt allow you to download stuff)


Those are all steps in the right direction. Its good and certainly an nice addition to allow java use to your games and make it browser friendly, since the graphics arent too CPU intensive, so that's all good in browser gaming.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
Running into a problem making my RPG... You can carry four characters in a party, but I have sixteen playable characters total. You're supposed to assign them into groups of four every dugneon and split up the work. Only problem is, its very hard to any character development as I don't know who's in your party at any given time. Hard to carry on conversations this way! Only thing I can think of to do is add either support conversations, or else mandatory character areas. Any ideas?


FF VI had a similar situation where the party size was 4, but there were actually 12 characters to choose from, although FFVI only let you use one party at a time save for a few select places. I would say the easiest would be to have sections of the game where you're allowed to modify the parties somewhat, but have certain members go off in certain directions. Like, have one person ALWAYS lead the party that goes off to one section of the dungeon, while the supporting members of his/her party are decided by the player.

This way you could develop the characters that you know are going to be in the party, while giving the other members of the party the less important lines in dialog scenes.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Running into a problem making my RPG... You can carry four characters in a party, but I have sixteen playable characters total. You're supposed to assign them into groups of four every dugneon and split up the work. Only problem is, its very hard to any character development as I don't know who's in your party at any given time. Hard to carry on conversations this way! Only thing I can think of to do is add either support conversations, or else mandatory character areas. Any ideas?


FF VI had a similar situation where the party size was 4, but there were actually 12 characters to choose from, although FFVI only let you use one party at a time save for a few select places. I would say the easiest would be to have sections of the game where you're allowed to modify the parties somewhat, but have certain members go off in certain directions. Like, have one person ALWAYS lead the party that goes off to one section of the dungeon, while the supporting members of his/her party are decided by the player.

This way you could develop the characters that you know are going to be in the party, while giving the other members of the party the less important lines in dialog scenes.


Another excellent suggestion, and good one since making a leader forces everyone to develop around the hero, and simplyfies plotlines. If you want a nice novel to write, you can leave the leader be selected by the user. 16 different plotlines, plus subplots for side quests, have fun with that.
Coledash
I dont use any "gamemaker/gamemaker language", so I cant participte into the poll.

But I do use several programming languages, like C (and most of its different versions) and BASIC (mostly visual version from it).

Ive made dozens of little games and once sold one of my hole game project forward, as I werent anymore interested from it and I wanted money. I started programming with QuickBASIC several years ago and learned about 10-20 different languages now. Ive tried most of the "wysiwygs" and I cant be more glad that I started with QB. Ofcourse, wysiwygs are good at some cases, especially if you arent looking forward to make serious programs, but that its, real programming languages surpasses every wysiwyg-program.

I havent never stood upon a problem, where I need to do something so I can "cheat" the program with what Im coding.... Becouse I dont use such things, so the only problems what I come across, is my own mind. Talking to a computer is mainly just like to a person, but this time you need to know the language 100% right and thats nearly impossible for human mind, so if theres a problem... Its your own fault.

Computers are usually evil partners, as they are 99% of the times right and you can only blame yourself.


Ive created few guides and tutorials to how to make games and Im looking forward to upload them on here aswell. Feel free to ask any kind of questions concerning to programming from me, happy coding everyone!
enygmasoft
Coledash wrote:
I dont use any "gamemaker/gamemaker language", so I cant participte into the poll.

But I do use several programming languages, like C (and most of its different versions) and BASIC (mostly visual version from it).

Ive made dozens of little games and once sold one of my hole game project forward, as I werent anymore interested from it and I wanted money. I started programming with QuickBASIC several years ago and learned about 10-20 different languages now. Ive tried most of the "wysiwygs" and I cant be more glad that I started with QB. Ofcourse, wysiwygs are good at some cases, especially if you arent looking forward to make serious programs, but that its, real programming languages surpasses every wysiwyg-program.

I havent never stood upon a problem, where I need to do something so I can "cheat" the program with what Im coding.... Becouse I dont use such things, so the only problems what I come across, is my own mind. Talking to a computer is mainly just like to a person, but this time you need to know the language 100% right and thats nearly impossible for human mind, so if theres a problem... Its your own fault.

Computers are usually evil partners, as they are 99% of the times right and you can only blame yourself.


Ive created few guides and tutorials to how to make games and Im looking forward to upload them on here aswell. Feel free to ask any kind of questions concerning to programming from me, happy coding everyone!


I am having a hard time disagreeing with you that Procedural Programming is far more open than Object Orented programming. Their blessing and curse lies in their "Windows Freindly" GUI design, while it can speed development time, It does force you to think "inside the box" as you create programs. With procedural programming your are not confined to code objects.

Its sad but true, since you are the one programming you can only blame yourself. I find that I tend to have the idea for the program pretty well defined and can come up with the "Pseudo Code" idea faily quickly, but Syntax issues and compiler issues that you might not be aware of can play games with you and keep you from actually getting the program to work.

It's good that we dont get paid per line of code.
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:
Coledash wrote:
I dont use any "gamemaker/gamemaker language", so I cant participte into the poll.

But I do use several programming languages, like C (and most of its different versions) and BASIC (mostly visual version from it).

Ive made dozens of little games and once sold one of my hole game project forward, as I werent anymore interested from it and I wanted money. I started programming with QuickBASIC several years ago and learned about 10-20 different languages now. Ive tried most of the "wysiwygs" and I cant be more glad that I started with QB. Ofcourse, wysiwygs are good at some cases, especially if you arent looking forward to make serious programs, but that its, real programming languages surpasses every wysiwyg-program.

I havent never stood upon a problem, where I need to do something so I can "cheat" the program with what Im coding.... Becouse I dont use such things, so the only problems what I come across, is my own mind. Talking to a computer is mainly just like to a person, but this time you need to know the language 100% right and thats nearly impossible for human mind, so if theres a problem... Its your own fault.

Computers are usually evil partners, as they are 99% of the times right and you can only blame yourself.


Ive created few guides and tutorials to how to make games and Im looking forward to upload them on here aswell. Feel free to ask any kind of questions concerning to programming from me, happy coding everyone!


I am having a hard time disagreeing with you that Procedural Programming is far more open than Object Orented programming. Their blessing and curse lies in their "Windows Freindly" GUI design, while it can speed development time, It does force you to think "inside the box" as you create programs. With procedural programming your are not confined to code objects.

Its sad but true, since you are the one programming you can only blame yourself. I find that I tend to have the idea for the program pretty well defined and can come up with the "Pseudo Code" idea faily quickly, but Syntax issues and compiler issues that you might not be aware of can play games with you and keep you from actually getting the program to work.

It's good that we dont get paid per line of code.


Even more fun are the situations where the compiler DOESN'T tell you anything, and yet things still don't work as they're supposed to. Very Happy
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
Coledash wrote:
I dont use any "gamemaker/gamemaker language", so I cant participte into the poll.

But I do use several programming languages, like C (and most of its different versions) and BASIC (mostly visual version from it).

Ive made dozens of little games and once sold one of my hole game project forward, as I werent anymore interested from it and I wanted money. I started programming with QuickBASIC several years ago and learned about 10-20 different languages now. Ive tried most of the "wysiwygs" and I cant be more glad that I started with QB. Ofcourse, wysiwygs are good at some cases, especially if you arent looking forward to make serious programs, but that its, real programming languages surpasses every wysiwyg-program.

I havent never stood upon a problem, where I need to do something so I can "cheat" the program with what Im coding.... Becouse I dont use such things, so the only problems what I come across, is my own mind. Talking to a computer is mainly just like to a person, but this time you need to know the language 100% right and thats nearly impossible for human mind, so if theres a problem... Its your own fault.

Computers are usually evil partners, as they are 99% of the times right and you can only blame yourself.


Ive created few guides and tutorials to how to make games and Im looking forward to upload them on here aswell. Feel free to ask any kind of questions concerning to programming from me, happy coding everyone!


I am having a hard time disagreeing with you that Procedural Programming is far more open than Object Orented programming. Their blessing and curse lies in their "Windows Freindly" GUI design, while it can speed development time, It does force you to think "inside the box" as you create programs. With procedural programming your are not confined to code objects.

Its sad but true, since you are the one programming you can only blame yourself. I find that I tend to have the idea for the program pretty well defined and can come up with the "Pseudo Code" idea faily quickly, but Syntax issues and compiler issues that you might not be aware of can play games with you and keep you from actually getting the program to work.

It's good that we dont get paid per line of code.


Even more fun are the situations where the compiler DOESN'T tell you anything, and yet things still don't work as they're supposed to. Very Happy


Welcome to .ASP scripting. I have the fun job of working on an Access Database at work, and all the info returned is due to Access, so I have no Idea if its syntax errors or anything else that can go wrong. Using front Page to code isnt to good.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:

Another excellent suggestion, and good one since making a leader forces everyone to develop around the hero, and simplyfies plotlines. If you want a nice novel to write, you can leave the leader be selected by the user. 16 different plotlines, plus subplots for side quests, have fun with that.


That's sort of already done. What I've set up is one small 'core' party of four (from the original game) to develop completely, with one being the main hero. In some areas you are forced to play as him and begin the game with this character. Around the set of four are another four that participate in the large dialogues that occur after major events, and after that another four that are somewhat developed and join the group automatically. The last four I'm having trouble with as those characters are not required to beat the game, and I'd have to add a whole bunch of ifs depending on who is unlocked. I intend to leave the outermost eight to develop in sidequests, and have most interactions amongst themselves, while the inner eight develop in the main plot.

But the player choosing the hero I think wouldn't work too well due to when the characters join the party. You almost begin the game with six, so the storylines would be very similar. Also the rest would have almost 'shorter'storylines as the game moves rather fast in-game time-wise.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:

Another excellent suggestion, and good one since making a leader forces everyone to develop around the hero, and simplyfies plotlines. If you want a nice novel to write, you can leave the leader be selected by the user. 16 different plotlines, plus subplots for side quests, have fun with that.


That's sort of already done. What I've set up is one small 'core' party of four (from the original game) to develop completely, with one being the main hero. In some areas you are forced to play as him and begin the game with this character. Around the set of four are another four that participate in the large dialogues that occur after major events, and after that another four that are somewhat developed and join the group automatically. The last four I'm having trouble with as those characters are not required to beat the game, and I'd have to add a whole bunch of ifs depending on who is unlocked. I intend to leave the outermost eight to develop in sidequests, and have most interactions amongst themselves, while the inner eight develop in the main plot.

But the player choosing the hero I think wouldn't work too well due to when the characters join the party. You almost begin the game with six, so the storylines would be very similar. Also the rest would have almost 'shorter'storylines as the game moves rather fast in-game time-wise.


That sounds like a decent way to do things, though it might get tougher as you try to interweave things together.

For my own project, I decided to go with 11 playable characters, however, only three of these characters are members of the main party. The other 8 join in and leave throughout the course of the game (since the maximum party size is 4), and although they are developed, and have an impact on the final outcome of the story, they do so when they need to, not when the player decides to bring them along.

(i.e., I went the FFIV route, and forced the player to have specific party members at certain points of the game. Granted, it allows for less freedom as far as party composition goes, but the way I handle character advancement and skill learning should still allow freedom in party makeup.)

As the story comes to a close, one of the temporary members does finally come back as a fourth permanent member just to fill out the party, but by that time, the story is almost over, and character development is pretty much over with.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:

Another excellent suggestion, and good one since making a leader forces everyone to develop around the hero, and simplyfies plotlines. If you want a nice novel to write, you can leave the leader be selected by the user. 16 different plotlines, plus subplots for side quests, have fun with that.


That's sort of already done. What I've set up is one small 'core' party of four (from the original game) to develop completely, with one being the main hero. In some areas you are forced to play as him and begin the game with this character. Around the set of four are another four that participate in the large dialogues that occur after major events, and after that another four that are somewhat developed and join the group automatically. The last four I'm having trouble with as those characters are not required to beat the game, and I'd have to add a whole bunch of ifs depending on who is unlocked. I intend to leave the outermost eight to develop in sidequests, and have most interactions amongst themselves, while the inner eight develop in the main plot.

But the player choosing the hero I think wouldn't work too well due to when the characters join the party. You almost begin the game with six, so the storylines would be very similar. Also the rest would have almost 'shorter'storylines as the game moves rather fast in-game time-wise.


Since you plan on leaving those 8 open characters, may I suggest the New game Plus Option. That will serve to speed up character developement in the game itself, with multiple endings, depending on the character development.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:

That's sort of already done. What I've set up is one small 'core' party of four (from the original game) to develop completely, with one being the main hero. In some areas you are forced to play as him and begin the game with this character. Around the set of four are another four that participate in the large dialogues that occur after major events, and after that another four that are somewhat developed and join the group automatically. The last four I'm having trouble with as those characters are not required to beat the game, and I'd have to add a whole bunch of ifs depending on who is unlocked. I intend to leave the outermost eight to develop in sidequests, and have most interactions amongst themselves, while the inner eight develop in the main plot.

But the player choosing the hero I think wouldn't work too well due to when the characters join the party. You almost begin the game with six, so the storylines would be very similar. Also the rest would have almost 'shorter'storylines as the game moves rather fast in-game time-wise.


That sounds like a decent way to do things, though it might get tougher as you try to interweave things together.

For my own project, I decided to go with 11 playable characters, however, only three of these characters are members of the main party. The other 8 join in and leave throughout the course of the game (since the maximum party size is 4), and although they are developed, and have an impact on the final outcome of the story, they do so when they need to, not when the player decides to bring them along.

(i.e., I went the FFIV route, and forced the player to have specific party members at certain points of the game. Granted, it allows for less freedom as far as party composition goes, but the way I handle character advancement and skill learning should still allow freedom in party makeup.)

As the story comes to a close, one of the temporary members does finally come back as a fourth permanent member just to fill out the party, but by that time, the story is almost over, and character development is pretty much over with.


The reason the FFIV route doesn't work for me is the way the battle system is rigged up. What happens is every random encounter on the world map, you are informed what the enemies are, and in what formation by the on-board battle system. Enemies attack in up to three parties, and you then strategize as to who to fill these parties with, as you need roles to counter the opponents and healers etc... And the game only has two healers to force tough decisions.

About characters finally making an impact at the very end, unfortunately the plot wasn't as interwoven as it could have been at the game's conception. Each character has plot mainly around the section you recruit that character in. I know I hate that in a game, (expecially the Fire Emblem series, as a character will join and then completely forget about his/her own objectives), but I decided to do it anyway. To make things a little more intricate, each person has a sort of pre-history with the main antagonist, which will be developped later in the side-quests. Main plot development is left solely to the core party.
brucedes
I use C++ to make games, unfortunately, I'm too lazy...

That being said I am working on a game now with Allegro in C++, so hopefully this one makes it to a decent stage Razz
Boffel
Does anyone know about a good free java gamemaker for mac?
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Does anyone know about a good free java gamemaker for mac?


Quote:

Windows for life! Sorry mac...


Betraying your Monicor already, but sadly thats the one side of the universe I have not played with to much. In fact, I have only used them on a school lab years ago. Gamemaker does not support mac but I though you could use anything using java? Does it not work properly on the browser using A macintosh?
hunnuh
I like Game Maker, because you can do anything with it.
Boffel
enygmasoft wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Does anyone know about a good free java gamemaker for mac?


Quote:

Windows for life! Sorry mac...


Betraying your Monicor already, but sadly thats the one side of the universe I have not played with to much. In fact, I have only used them on a school lab years ago. Gamemaker does not support mac but I though you could use anything using java? Does it not work properly on the browser using A macintosh?


First, I will just say that the mac i use is on my school. I got windows home, but if it was any good gamemakers for mac I could also make games at school.

YES, it suport java... But I cant find any good editing tool to make java games in mac. Because most of the editors is exe. files that mac cannot run.
CtrlAltDeleteDie
I made a few small games in LUA and RPG Maker 2000/2003/XP, but thats the extent of my game making. I want to take C++ at my school to get familiar with it.
enygmasoft
CtrlAltDeleteDie wrote:
I made a few small games in LUA and RPG Maker 2000/2003/XP, but thats the extent of my game making. I want to take C++ at my school to get familiar with it.


It really nice to have the level of freedom that C++ offers, but I certainly headache inducing, the amount of work that It takes, to get things going, but the added benifit on much faster frame rates.
Boffel
Im not good at C++ myself, but when you get used to it I think it will be realy easy to use. But is it some converters that can convert C++ to java or flash or any browser suported languages???

If not, I dont think I will start learning that. Then I wil just go for java programing...
Jakob [JaWGames]
I am coding games in Multimedia Fusion made by clickteam. The good things with this program is that it is quite easy to handle when you got the hang of it and you can make practically all kinds of 2D games in it with enough knowledge.

The biggest game I have made this far is Astro Limit, a spaceshooter which you can download at: http://www.jawgames.frih.net/Games/AstroLimit/AstroLimit.zip

It would be nice with some comments about it Smile

wombatrpgs
About C++ versus something like RPGmaker... I program moderately well in C, (never tried C++), but it seems to takea lot longer to get anything done as far as interfaces and systems go, but that allows a lot more freedom. I personally would rather use my time making an excellent game as far as the puzzles and plot go rather than make an unique RPG system and take too long to get any length in the game. If anything I'd make a helper application to speed up the process rather than doing everything with pure code.
Sneemaster
Hey I program games using a combination of C++/Irrlicht/DirectX/OpenGL, but I've also found VB.Net and C# pretty handy too. Flash/Actionscript is really fun, and Game Maker is great for starting out with nice 2D games.
The main problem can be multiplatform games. Most of my experience is with Windows programming (especially with C#/VB). I use C++ for Linux games, but is there something better for 3D game programming in over multiple operating systems (or at least easier and compatible with various Mesh formats)? How about for Mac OS?
In all this time though, I've never gotten around to finishing any of these games. Maybe some day...
kasper105
I use darkBASIC and 3D world builder (Very good program)
for my game. I thinks its a very good combination, because they are about to release a Direct X10 version of darkBASIC.
I'm making a MMORPG game.
Godknown
I've used RPG Maker XP for the longest time, and I trust its language (even though it is hard to find resources on it).

Man, the old days of ideas.
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Im not good at C++ myself, but when you get used to it I think it will be realy easy to use. But is it some converters that can convert C++ to java or flash or any browser suported languages???

If not, I dont think I will start learning that. Then I wil just go for java programing...


It fairly easy to get the prgramming along, but I was saying that in terms of the amount of fuctions that you have to code yourself. Every teature has to be coded by you.
Sneemaster
With C++ you can use wrappers to do the not so fun stuff for you... Such as Ogre or Irrlicht for game development. They handle the graphics and even sound access for either DirectX or OpenGL, plus have handy tools for using various 3D meshes and other objects that the direct method doesn't (so normally you would have to hand code it). Some of the wrappers will also work with Java, VB or C#.
enygmasoft
Sneemaster wrote:
With C++ you can use wrappers to do the not so fun stuff for you... Such as Ogre or Irrlicht for game development. They handle the graphics and even sound access for either DirectX or OpenGL, plus have handy tools for using various 3D meshes and other objects that the direct method doesn't (so normally you would have to hand code it). Some of the wrappers will also work with Java, VB or C#.


I forget about those, they help out alot, so do SDK.
Sneemaster
Well, you'll need SDK's such as DirectX or SDL to code for those things anyway. I recommend getting the DirectX SDK, any version of C++ (even the free ones like Dev C++...a very cool IDE), an inexpensive 3D Mesh program (like MilkShape3D or Anim8tor), and some free sound editing software. Then download a 3D game wrapper like Irrlicht or Ogre (or other wrapper like SDL), plus a sound wrapper, and maybe an network wrapper. Read them all up, and you will be able to develop any game out there in no time at all and if you use OpenGL, then all of your games will work on Windows and Linux machines without severe modifications.
enygmasoft
Sneemaster wrote:
Well, you'll need SDK's such as DirectX or SDL to code for those things anyway. I recommend getting the DirectX SDK, any version of C++ (even the free ones like Dev C++...a very cool IDE), an inexpensive 3D Mesh program (like MilkShape3D or Anim8tor), and some free sound editing software. Then download a 3D game wrapper like Irrlicht or Ogre (or other wrapper like SDL), plus a sound wrapper, and maybe an network wrapper. Read them all up, and you will be able to develop any game out there in no time at all and if you use OpenGL, then all of your games will work on Windows and Linux machines without severe modifications.


Those are the benefits of using Open GL, you also forget Console, the Game Cube and WII both use that. but Im sure they have a propietary compiler.
In terms of eye candy, I have always had the impression that Direct X can do alot more than Open GL, which why I ended up going with Direct X and acquiring DarkBasic Professional, which of course means windows only, but in terms of Performance, Open GL is generally much better.
ShawnKelfonne
OpenGL is also probably going to become the standard for people still making games on Windows XP, since DirectX 10 is only supported by Vista.

Certainly, DirectX 9.0c is good enough for most people, but I wouldn't be surprised if some major companies started making the shift towards OpenGL.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
OpenGL is also probably going to become the standard for people still making games on Windows XP, since DirectX 10 is only supported by Vista.

Certainly, DirectX 9.0c is good enough for most people, but I wouldn't be surprised if some major companies started making the shift towards OpenGL.



For the garage coders, I am finding it impossible to max out Direct X9.0 c,
There are some nice features that I have no intentions on using with my game, and the object count is nowhere near max. and it wont ever get there. but I can certainly why publishing houses see a big boom Towards direct X 10, but not anytime soon. Right now only one card exist that support that and the flagship card from NVIDIA, which is currently at $500, but you are probably right, that only ginormous publishing houses will find that necessary. The remaining 99 percent, wont see the bang, because they are not playing the same league in terms of graphics, which is the only reson to upgrade to diirect x 10. I see XP being around for much longer than microsoft wants. The biggest benefit has always been in backwards compatability, which is great for the majority of us that will stick with older technologies, like direct x 9c, but I don't have hardware for that setup yet, but I plan on moving up within the next year.
wombatrpgs
Hm... I'd say discussion has gotten too technical. It's a very strange medium, videogames. On one hand, you can take the science aspect, (as in everyone here talking about what language / program to use), or you can take the more artistic side in gameplay, plot, pacing... I think people are looking too much at the paint and too little at the paint-ing. In some ways I guess videogames are an art form as much as any other fictional writing piece, as long as you have dialogue and not some lame no-story puzzle-only sort of game. But there definitely is an art to balancing a system, and also, less exclusively, developing a character and getting out a plot.

After making a game, I can't see why anyone would wriet fantasy rather than making it interactive, unless they lack the technical skills. But that gets into the science aspect again...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Hm... I'd say discussion has gotten too technical. It's a very strange medium, videogames. On one hand, you can take the science aspect, (as in everyone here talking about what language / program to use), or you can take the more artistic side in gameplay, plot, pacing... I think people are looking too much at the paint and too little at the paint-ing. In some ways I guess videogames are an art form as much as any other fictional writing piece, as long as you have dialogue and not some lame no-story puzzle-only sort of game. But there definitely is an art to balancing a system, and also, less exclusively, developing a character and getting out a plot.

After making a game, I can't see why anyone would wriet fantasy rather than making it interactive, unless they lack the technical skills. But that gets into the science aspect again...


I realize that, which is the reason why I have such nice brainnubming hobby. I have to keep up with technical developments as well as astistic developments. There has to be a great story behind a game, otherwise its just pong, but I still need to know how to get pong off the ground to get my game up and running, but check my website:
www.enygmasoft.com
As you can see I already know exactly what is planed for the demo release of Aeons Tales, I have an the story and I am annoyed as to how time consuming art can be. I finding it far more time consuming doing the 3d models, but all left brained activities, than coding the game, but with that being said. I have to have a design behind my game, which bleed over in right side of the used of my brain. By the way all the graphics that you see on that page I did myself. Its an excellent mind exercise to crank that, out and its taking all the skills that I have to do thay hobby done.

Unfortunately you have to grasp everything to get something like this off the ground. At this point Aonst tales is just a novel in progress, however there is sill a 3rd equally important aspect that we have not covered and that is Music.
Arnie
Has anyone tried making multiplayer games? I'd like to hear your experiences.
enygmasoft
Arnie wrote:
Has anyone tried making multiplayer games? I'd like to hear your experiences.



Thats the one area thats a bit of mystery, becase my game wont be multiplayer, but I have been thinking about doijng a 3d chess game multiplayer, just for practice. Still have not found time for that unfortunatly.
catscratches
I didn't really know if I should vote for GM or C++. So I voted C++ since that is what I'm currently learning and what I am going to use in the future. Game Maker is easy do not allow for such complex games that C++ do. You could do anything in C++.
I started game making in QBASIC on a DOS computer for like 4-5 years ago. Since QBASIC did not support images, everything was built on text, the character was made of text etcetera. Also, the computer's harddrive crashed so you had to install MS-DOS to the memort everytime you started the computer. And if you made something wrong, Ctrl+Alt+Del were not there to save you, not Alt+F4 either, so you'd had to turn the computer off.
Then I started with Java instead, but I sucked so extremely and were to stupid to learn so I stopped with that. I made an animation and some quizes but I really sucked extremely.
Then I discovered RPG Maker, it was so damn boring though, not allowing for anything advanced games at all. Simple RPG games, with nothing advanced at all, it took looooooong time to make the games since the scripting were so damn bad and you could not do the games you wanted to do, even though I liked RPGs.
Then I saw Game Maker, like a star in the sky XP. I started developing some boring bad games but I were completely stuck. And now my Game Maker knowledge has lead me to some better games and tools. For example Nightmare. www.catscratches.net.tc/nightmare.htm
When I started to think that GM was not enough, the 3D part were so sloooow and the rest of it were also a bit slow, I and my friend started learning C instead.
It didn't take long before we went over to C++ and Irrlicht instead. We not yet made anything big in this yet but we're learnign at lights speed and we already know the basics and some Irrlicht programming.

For all C++ users I strongly recommend Irrlicht. irrlicht.sourceforge.net
{name here}
Heh. Games. Not to big on them. I made a very terrible cricket game in qbasic quite a while ago. It was roughly the quality of an Atari 2600 game, if not worse because it did not follow the rules of cricket nor did the ball curve. That pretty much sums up my game-making experience. I'd love to create something more complex, like a build engine game, but I simply don't have the talent to create 3D models, or decent 2D models for that matter. Applications are where I stay.
Boffel
{name here} wrote:
Heh. Games. Not to big on them. I made a very terrible cricket game in qbasic quite a while ago. It was roughly the quality of an Atari 2600 game, if not worse because it did not follow the rules of cricket nor did the ball curve. That pretty much sums up my game-making experience. I'd love to create something more complex, like a build engine game, but I simply don't have the talent to create 3D models, or decent 2D models for that matter. Applications are where I stay.


I know a free program where its realy easy to learn 3d modeling if you want to... Its called anim8or, and the download site is www.anim8or.com

Perhaps you want to start learning make 3d games after you have used that program in a while. Its realy cool!!! Very Happy
{name here}
Boffel wrote:
{name here} wrote:
Heh. Games. Not to big on them. I made a very terrible cricket game in qbasic quite a while ago. It was roughly the quality of an Atari 2600 game, if not worse because it did not follow the rules of cricket nor did the ball curve. That pretty much sums up my game-making experience. I'd love to create something more complex, like a build engine game, but I simply don't have the talent to create 3D models, or decent 2D models for that matter. Applications are where I stay.


I know a free program where its realy easy to learn 3d modeling if you want to... Its called anim8or, and the download site is www.anim8or.com

Perhaps you want to start learning make 3d games after you have used that program in a while. Its realy cool!!! Very Happy

Naw. It's not the modeller. It's me. I've used Anim8or, Blender, and Milkshape before, but I really never practiced enough on any of them to make decent models that aren't static. For example, I would want a weapon to bob if I used eDuke32, and I would want it to reload realistically if I used source. If I took time to look them up I'd surely be able to do it. However, I just don't have the time.
Boffel
{name here} wrote:
Boffel wrote:
{name here} wrote:
Heh. Games. Not to big on them. I made a very terrible cricket game in qbasic quite a while ago. It was roughly the quality of an Atari 2600 game, if not worse because it did not follow the rules of cricket nor did the ball curve. That pretty much sums up my game-making experience. I'd love to create something more complex, like a build engine game, but I simply don't have the talent to create 3D models, or decent 2D models for that matter. Applications are where I stay.


I know a free program where its realy easy to learn 3d modeling if you want to... Its called anim8or, and the download site is www.anim8or.com

Perhaps you want to start learning make 3d games after you have used that program in a while. Its realy cool!!! Very Happy

Naw. It's not the modeller. It's me. I've used Anim8or, Blender, and Milkshape before, but I really never practiced enough on any of them to make decent models that aren't static. For example, I would want a weapon to bob if I used eDuke32, and I would want it to reload realistically if I used source. If I took time to look them up I'd surely be able to do it. However, I just don't have the time.

Yeah it takes realy long time to make the models and codes... But I still like it, because its cool to see the finished games. But we are not same persons, so I understand you very good.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
...however there is sill a 3rd equally important aspect that we have not covered and that is Music.


Music seems also to be a very great contributer to the overall quality of the game. It seems to add the atmospheric portions graphics can't. You can actually use it to create in-game challenges as well, I made sort of a DDR minigame style thing that fit the rhythem of a classic videogame piece.

I pretty much use only stuff from VGmusic in my games, but there are drawbacks and advantages. It's kind of fun to be playing a game and realize, "Hey! That's Planet Scorch from Ristar! That game was awesome!" Its neat to get that kind of reaction. But when you her Gerudo Valley for the 800th time, it gets kind of old... So I try to stick to lesser known pieces.
Tuxy
I can do a little Quake engine scripting. Just the basics for programming events when making maps for Call of Duty 2. I think the Q3 language is actually like C and PHP mixed together (sounds weird).

But I mainly do the visual art for mods. Concept Art, 3D work, Level Design
Radiant 2 years
C4D 3 Years
Maya 1 Year
GMax 1/2 Year
Photoshop 4 Years
LostOverThere
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
...however there is sill a 3rd equally important aspect that we have not covered and that is Music.


Music seems also to be a very great contributer to the overall quality of the game. It seems to add the atmospheric portions graphics can't. You can actually use it to create in-game challenges as well, I made sort of a DDR minigame style thing that fit the rhythem of a classic videogame piece.

I pretty much use only stuff from VGmusic in my games, but there are drawbacks and advantages. It's kind of fun to be playing a game and realize, "Hey! That's Planet Scorch from Ristar! That game was awesome!" Its neat to get that kind of reaction. But when you her Gerudo Valley for the 800th time, it gets kind of old... So I try to stick to lesser known pieces.


I completely agree, Music can make or break a game.
Just a hint, when making a game, don't pick music that others will like, you like, or is "Cool" at the time. Pick music that suites the scene.
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
...however there is sill a 3rd equally important aspect that we have not covered and that is Music.


Music seems also to be a very great contributer to the overall quality of the game. It seems to add the atmospheric portions graphics can't. You can actually use it to create in-game challenges as well, I made sort of a DDR minigame style thing that fit the rhythem of a classic videogame piece.

I pretty much use only stuff from VGmusic in my games, but there are drawbacks and advantages. It's kind of fun to be playing a game and realize, "Hey! That's Planet Scorch from Ristar! That game was awesome!" Its neat to get that kind of reaction. But when you her Gerudo Valley for the 800th time, it gets kind of old... So I try to stick to lesser known pieces.


I completely agree, Music can make or break a game.
Just a hint, when making a game, don't pick music that others will like, you like, or is "Cool" at the time. Pick music that suites the scene.


the power of ambiance is incredible. the demo of my game feels so much better after I started adding sound effects for the wind and background music.
wombatrpgs
Another thing to consider about the music of a game is the use combined with characters, events, etc. to make themes for that character. I don't really think this works too well in most cases. Mainly, this is due to the unoriginality of the music. If a character is underdeveloped and posesses just one core trait, the music is generic. The hero has some sort of 'brave' music, the female lead takes some sort of 'quiet meldoy...' It seems only to add to the cliche.

What I did find very effective for my game was to have music associated with a location or event. I used a lesser-known piece of videogame music for a sort of Travelling by Air theme. It was pretty neat on its own, but at a boss battle in the air, I did a bit of editting with Noteworthy Composer and brought out the harmony for a while, and it created a spectacular effect. The piece started sounding completely different, but when the meldoy was added with a new instrument or two, it complemented the secondary theme and triggered almost nostalgia with the original and also the novelty of a battle theme.
You can really use the remix with a theme for a great effect.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Another thing to consider about the music of a game is the use combined with characters, events, etc. to make themes for that character. I don't really think this works too well in most cases. Mainly, this is due to the unoriginality of the music. If a character is underdeveloped and posesses just one core trait, the music is generic. The hero has some sort of 'brave' music, the female lead takes some sort of 'quiet meldoy...' It seems only to add to the cliche.

What I did find very effective for my game was to have music associated with a location or event. I used a lesser-known piece of videogame music for a sort of Travelling by Air theme. It was pretty neat on its own, but at a boss battle in the air, I did a bit of editting with Noteworthy Composer and brought out the harmony for a while, and it created a spectacular effect. The piece started sounding completely different, but when the meldoy was added with a new instrument or two, it complemented the secondary theme and triggered almost nostalgia with the original and also the novelty of a battle theme.
You can really use the remix with a theme for a great effect.
`

which is certainly easire than doing entirely original scores, but the originality certainly adds novelty that you dont find in a remix, and with that its added level of character development that you get soundtrack free, when used correctly.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:

which is certainly easire than doing entirely original scores, but the originality certainly adds novelty that you dont find in a remix, and with that its added level of character development that you get soundtrack free, when used correctly.


Hopefully I chose such little-known works its very rare that someone has heard most of them, (except those from Ocarina of Time). But you do have a point about original tracks. I've tried messing around in Noteworthy Composer but the interface is too poor for me to really get the hang of digital music. Only GarageBand has really done that.

I actually play the cello fairly well, so its easy to come up with the melody, but the problem is getting it notated properly. As I have no perfect pitch, I can't really figure out notes and things, and a complete lack of piano skills makes digital recordings somewhat difficult... (Unless I can find an electric cello, those seem weird). I guess I'm too lazy to spend the time on that sort of thing. Improving other aspects is higher on my priorities.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:

which is certainly easire than doing entirely original scores, but the originality certainly adds novelty that you dont find in a remix, and with that its added level of character development that you get soundtrack free, when used correctly.


Hopefully I chose such little-known works its very rare that someone has heard most of them, (except those from Ocarina of Time). But you do have a point about original tracks. I've tried messing around in Noteworthy Composer but the interface is too poor for me to really get the hang of digital music. Only GarageBand has really done that.

I actually play the cello fairly well, so its easy to come up with the melody, but the problem is getting it notated properly. As I have no perfect pitch, I can't really figure out notes and things, and a complete lack of piano skills makes digital recordings somewhat difficult... (Unless I can find an electric cello, those seem weird). I guess I'm too lazy to spend the time on that sort of thing. Improving other aspects is higher on my priorities.


I feel the same way, but I have a few more pending engament before getting into that. I have all the music skills of a pop star. But I have a few books still in the backburner, and a guitar that needs to start making my caluses on my hand again.
LostOverThere
Notice the Zelda Games, particularly Twilight Princess has music for each character (Midas' Theme, etc.)
Nintendo pulled that off extremely well though.
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
Notice the Zelda Games, particularly Twilight Princess has music for each character (Midas' Theme, etc.)
Nintendo pulled that off extremely well though.


In terms Musical God hood, I loved Twiligh Princess on the musical side of game design, which most people miss. A very elegant score.
ShawnKelfonne
I agree on the issue of music, and it's always been my intention to use only original music for any projects that I work on.
Lucky for me, that I have a friend who does a lot of midi composition, and he's put out a lot of really good music that I can use for my RPG project. I'm one of those blessed by being able to go to someone and say, "I need music for this type of scene, what can you make for me?" and end up with a song for it maybe a week later.

Now if I just got off my behind and started making sprites, maybe I'd get somewhere. ^^;
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
I agree on the issue of music, and it's always been my intention to use only original music for any projects that I work on.
Lucky for me, that I have a friend who does a lot of midi composition, and he's put out a lot of really good music that I can use for my RPG project. I'm one of those blessed by being able to go to someone and say, "I need music for this type of scene, what can you make for me?" and end up with a song for it maybe a week later.

Now if I just got off my behind and started making sprites, maybe I'd get somewhere. ^^;



MY brother is an execellent guitarist, but he needs to catch up on the digital aspeect of composition, but its too bad he cant play the entire band to do the score, which why I am trying to get him a computer to get caught up.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
I agree on the issue of music, and it's always been my intention to use only original music for any projects that I work on.
Lucky for me, that I have a friend who does a lot of midi composition, and he's put out a lot of really good music that I can use for my RPG project. I'm one of those blessed by being able to go to someone and say, "I need music for this type of scene, what can you make for me?" and end up with a song for it maybe a week later.

Now if I just got off my behind and started making sprites, maybe I'd get somewhere. ^^;


Blah... Making graphics and resources and such on a long scale I just can't do on a large scale. I don't have to patience to do that sort of stuff... As I only have on minor assistant whose only role seems to consist of debugging, I can't use many unique graphics or music. It doesn't seem right to have a quality game without them, but I suppose things like that are easy enough to overhaul if I ever get around to it.
Soulfire
The only remotely close thing to success I've had in game making is with PHP, and it wasn't even my script. It was a module-based system, none of which I could code myself.

You could say I am rather inexperienced when it comes to game-making, although I have ALWAYS aspired to create my own.

If anyone has a way to begin, some good reading, etc. please PM me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Boffel
If you dont want to code the game youreself, try "gamemaker"

Its a drag and drop gamemaker and has alot of functions. But if you want to make 3d games there, you have to learn some gml (gamemaker language) but its not hard to learn Very Happy web site is www.gamemaker.nl

If you need help, it is also many people that will help you on their forum. When I ask questions, I get answer just some minutes after Very Happy
enygmasoft
Soulfire wrote:
The only remotely close thing to success I've had in game making is with PHP, and it wasn't even my script. It was a module-based system, none of which I could code myself.

You could say I am rather inexperienced when it comes to game-making, although I have ALWAYS aspired to create my own.

If anyone has a way to begin, some good reading, etc. please PM me, I would greatly appreciate it!


Honestly if you dont have the vaguest comception of what it takes, I would suggest "Gamemaker," but that has enough 2D features to get your feet wet. It supportS 3D if you want to venture that route, but limited.

The graphics, the music, then the code to get that mess to work, like you
want it. Which means you have to become a digital 2D Artists and Digital Musician to get the Artistic side of your project done. And if you want a 3D game, you have to add 3D artistry to your belt. Any books on those topics will help with the artistic side. Additionally you have to keep in mind what media is supported by the "gamemaker," so that you dont spend a time on an incredibly impressive graphic or musical piece, that you can't use for your game.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:

Blah... Making graphics and resources and such on a long scale I just can't do on a large scale. I don't have to patience to do that sort of stuff... As I only have on minor assistant whose only role seems to consist of debugging, I can't use many unique graphics or music. It doesn't seem right to have a quality game without them, but I suppose things like that are easy enough to overhaul if I ever get around to it.


It is very time consuming, yes, but ultimately worth it in the end, because it gives your game something distinct about it, and makes it stand out from others. I will admit that I'm better at some things than other things though. I can do RPGMaker style character sprites, but tilesets come across as a real pain.

The real hard part about an RPG though isn't the main character spriting, it's really the NPC spriting, since you want to have enough variety so you don't see the same 5 townspeople everywhere you go, so you need to make enough distinct townspeople sprites.

Animations are a real pain too, along with monster design.
(Though I am sort of proud of this one, even though it could use some more work on the gun and such. )
Yjaxygames
Animating sprites van be a real pain in the ass. I mostly use and modify existing sprites if I need complicated movement animations.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:

It is very time consuming, yes, but ultimately worth it in the end, because it gives your game something distinct about it, and makes it stand out from others. I will admit that I'm better at some things than other things though. I can do RPGMaker style character sprites, but tilesets come across as a real pain.

The real hard part about an RPG though isn't the main character spriting, it's really the NPC spriting, since you want to have enough variety so you don't see the same 5 townspeople everywhere you go, so you need to make enough distinct townspeople sprites.


My game happens to have the NPC character problem... Can't get enough of that generic Man Woman Child sprite set thing... There are more sprites intended for NPCs but I've used so many for playable characters that using them as NPCs would be ridiculous.

Tiles for RM2K games are something I'm actually good at, I'm using some very distinct ones in my game. But no original sprites, only a few edits. Maybe my fault with that sort of thing is a reliance on MS paint to get the dirty work done. Making a gradient pixel by pixel in 256 color is absolutely mind-numbing... By the way, what did you use to make that example? Looks pretty neat.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
ShawnKelfonne wrote:

It is very time consuming, yes, but ultimately worth it in the end, because it gives your game something distinct about it, and makes it stand out from others. I will admit that I'm better at some things than other things though. I can do RPGMaker style character sprites, but tilesets come across as a real pain.

The real hard part about an RPG though isn't the main character spriting, it's really the NPC spriting, since you want to have enough variety so you don't see the same 5 townspeople everywhere you go, so you need to make enough distinct townspeople sprites.


My game happens to have the NPC character problem... Can't get enough of that generic Man Woman Child sprite set thing... There are more sprites intended for NPCs but I've used so many for playable characters that using them as NPCs would be ridiculous.

Tiles for RM2K games are something I'm actually good at, I'm using some very distinct ones in my game. But no original sprites, only a few edits. Maybe my fault with that sort of thing is a reliance on MS paint to get the dirty work done. Making a gradient pixel by pixel in 256 color is absolutely mind-numbing... By the way, what did you use to make that example? Looks pretty neat.


INTERESTING Point, graphics take foreever. It more time consuming than anything else.
enygmasoft
Yjaxygames wrote:
Animating sprites van be a real pain in the ass. I mostly use and modify existing sprites if I need complicated movement animations.


quick idea for those who care, I certain find entremely help ful to know you can use 3d models for sprite work. Thats how Donkey Kong Country came about.
Boffel
enygmasoft wrote:
Yjaxygames wrote:
Animating sprites van be a real pain in the ass. I mostly use and modify existing sprites if I need complicated movement animations.


quick idea for those who care, I certain find entremely help ful to know you can use 3d models for sprite work. Thats how Donkey Kong Country came about.


Yep, I also do this Very Happy

Its always beeing bether then the sprites I make in 2d...
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:

My game happens to have the NPC character problem... Can't get enough of that generic Man Woman Child sprite set thing... There are more sprites intended for NPCs but I've used so many for playable characters that using them as NPCs would be ridiculous.


Yeah, if you're using RM2K though, there's a wealth of resources out there for it. New townspeople can always be made by doing simple edits to the characters already out there, since it won't matter all too much. (Although I wouldn't suggest simple edits for the main character sprites.) Things like swapping heads, changing hair colors, clothing, etc, can all be done to make different townspeople. It's nice to have them be distinct, but ultimately, people won't pay as much attention to them as you'd think.

(As a side note, I will note that if there's TOO much repetition it gets noticed though. Case in point, I could never get over the fact that every Imperial Guard in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion looks exactly the same, which is almost inexcusable given the amount of tweaks you can do to a character's looks in that game. )

Quote:
... By the way, what did you use to make that example? Looks pretty neat.


Photoshop 6.0 I made the basic outline first, then did all the coloring. For the shading I used some of photoshop's tools, because I care more about getting it to look nice than I care about being able to say I pixeled everything by hand.

enygmasoft wrote:
quick idea for those who care, I certain find entremely help ful to know you can use 3d models for sprite work. Thats how Donkey Kong Country came about.


Aye, that's a possibility, but I have no skill at making 3D models, so that's a bit of problem for me. I'm sure it could work for others though. Just need to make sure that the 3D models you're using for the sprites fit in with the overall look of the rest of the game.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:

My game happens to have the NPC character problem... Can't get enough of that generic Man Woman Child sprite set thing... There are more sprites intended for NPCs but I've used so many for playable characters that using them as NPCs would be ridiculous.


Yeah, if you're using RM2K though, there's a wealth of resources out there for it. New townspeople can always be made by doing simple edits to the characters already out there, since it won't matter all too much. (Although I wouldn't suggest simple edits for the main character sprites.) Things like swapping heads, changing hair colors, clothing, etc, can all be done to make different townspeople. It's nice to have them be distinct, but ultimately, people won't pay as much attention to them as you'd think.

(As a side note, I will note that if there's TOO much repetition it gets noticed though. Case in point, I could never get over the fact that every Imperial Guard in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion looks exactly the same, which is almost inexcusable given the amount of tweaks you can do to a character's looks in that game. )

Quote:
... By the way, what did you use to make that example? Looks pretty neat.


Photoshop 6.0 I made the basic outline first, then did all the coloring. For the shading I used some of photoshop's tools, because I care more about getting it to look nice than I care about being able to say I pixeled everything by hand.

enygmasoft wrote:
quick idea for those who care, I certain find entremely help ful to know you can use 3d models for sprite work. Thats how Donkey Kong Country came about.


Aye, that's a possibility, but I have no skill at making 3D models, so that's a bit of problem for me. I'm sure it could work for others though. Just need to make sure that the 3D models you're using for the sprites fit in with the overall look of the rest of the game.


Thats good tip, additionally most 3d modeling tools have some sort of animation tools to pose your models for sprite shots, which can be quicket than doing the same process by hand drawing the sprites and will generally be of a higher quality.
Boffel
Im planning to make a 3d (m)morpg now Very Happy

The name gonna be the same as my other 3d game (wilderness)...

In my game I will try to make a building system, so you can build houses and other stuff, and other players should also be able to attack that buildings.

I also gonna add animals to kill for food and other stuff, and perhaps tame it so they can help you guard your house´s.

Its gonna be in old style, like wow and runescape time...


Anyone got any ideas for my game?


I will post the first beta here, as soon as its finished. (But it can take a while) lol...
reddishblue
Sorry to burst your bubble, but GM cannot make MMORPGs, I am not sure why but noobs get flamed whenever they ask on GM forums.
Yjaxygames
reddishblue wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but GM cannot make MMORPGs, I am not sure why but noobs get flamed whenever they ask on GM forums.


It's possible, but VERY hard to do.
catscratches
Not much harder than with any other programming language. Just that it's almost impossible to make a MMORPG that attracts the audience since 3D graphics is needed to get anywhere today. And I wouldn't even call GM's 3D functions for 3D since it's so slow. If you want to make a 3D game, don't even think of GM. USe C++ or another better language.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Not much harder than with any other programming language. Just that it's almost impossible to make a MMORPG that attracts the audience since 3D graphics is needed to get anywhere today. And I wouldn't even call GM's 3D functions for 3D since it's so slow. If you want to make a 3D game, don't even think of GM. USe C++ or another better language.


I agree, if you have to code the fuctionality to get the MMORPG off the ground, then I would suggest Dark Basic Professional for that, there so many reasons why I use that, but It has to have far better and faster 3D apps, which can be better visually than PS2 close tto ps3 in the right hands since it supports all of Direct X 9.0c features including shaders and it also support the Internet funtionality thru Direct Play.
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:
catscratches wrote:
Not much harder than with any other programming language. Just that it's almost impossible to make a MMORPG that attracts the audience since 3D graphics is needed to get anywhere today. And I wouldn't even call GM's 3D functions for 3D since it's so slow. If you want to make a 3D game, don't even think of GM. USe C++ or another better language.


I agree, if you have to code the fuctionality to get the MMORPG off the ground, then I would suggest Dark Basic Professional for that, there so many reasons why I use that, but It has to have far better and faster 3D apps, which can be better visually than PS2 close tto ps3 in the right hands since it supports all of Direct X 9.0c features including shaders and it also support the Internet funtionality thru Direct Play.


Seems like a good idea. How much does the DarkBasic package cost?
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
catscratches wrote:
Not much harder than with any other programming language. Just that it's almost impossible to make a MMORPG that attracts the audience since 3D graphics is needed to get anywhere today. And I wouldn't even call GM's 3D functions for 3D since it's so slow. If you want to make a 3D game, don't even think of GM. USe C++ or another better language.


I agree, if you have to code the fuctionality to get the MMORPG off the ground, then I would suggest Dark Basic Professional for that, there so many reasons why I use that, but It has to have far better and faster 3D apps, which can be better visually than PS2 close tto ps3 in the right hands since it supports all of Direct X 9.0c features including shaders and it also support the Internet funtionality thru Direct Play.


Seems like a good idea. How much does the DarkBasic package cost?


There are 2 vesions on their website, http://thegamecreators.com Dark ic and Dark Basic Professional. The professional version has a cd version for $89 and a downloadable version for $69
also if you check on ebay you can get good deals, I bought the cd version for $50 on that.

Also there is the older Dark Basic electronic version for $15
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:

My game happens to have the NPC character problem... Can't get enough of that generic Man Woman Child sprite set thing... There are more sprites intended for NPCs but I've used so many for playable characters that using them as NPCs would be ridiculous.


Yeah, if you're using RM2K though, there's a wealth of resources out there for it. New townspeople can always be made by doing simple edits to the characters already out there, since it won't matter all too much. (Although I wouldn't suggest simple edits for the main character sprites.) Things like swapping heads, changing hair colors, clothing, etc, can all be done to make different townspeople. It's nice to have them be distinct, but ultimately, people won't pay as much attention to them as you'd think.


Unfortunately I embarked on a huge project that has been in the works for a year using facsets, which doomed me. Now I need to find matching faces for the sprites and I really can't be bothered at this point, maybe later I'll do something about it.
Yjaxygames
catscratches wrote:
Not much harder than with any other programming language. Just that it's almost impossible to make a MMORPG that attracts the audience since 3D graphics is needed to get anywhere today. And I wouldn't even call GM's 3D functions for 3D since it's so slow. If you want to make a 3D game, don't even think of GM. USe C++ or another better language.


Agree. If you want serious 3D then don't use GM. But it can look pretty nice sometimes. LostOVerThere is busy (or WAS busy) with a 3d game in GM, and that turned out very good.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:

Unfortunately I embarked on a huge project that has been in the works for a year using facsets, which doomed me. Now I need to find matching faces for the sprites and I really can't be bothered at this point, maybe later I'll do something about it.


Could try using something like this? http://charas-project.net/charas2/index.php
It's not the best solution, but as long as you're a bit careful about what you use, you might get something decent looking out of it?
enygmasoft
Quote:
Unfortunately I embarked on a huge project that has been in the works for a year using facsets, which doomed me. Now I need to find matching faces for the sprites and I really can't be bothered at this point, maybe later I'll do something about it.


http://www.d-grafix.com/?page=spriteforge

You can try this useful sprite tool, which uses 3d models to generate sprites. To tool is setup to take screen shots and do it properly and quicker than could
unles you want to set an animation path to do the same thing using the renderer.
catscratches
I won't recommend DarkBasic as it is expensive and C++ is much better. Also C++ works on Linux and Mac as well. And C++ is easy. Then use Irrlicht for the 3D part. irrlicht.sourceforge.net
Boffel
Well, I just managed to let you see other peoples move around as 3d models without any lagg, so I think it will work just fine Very Happy

Gamemaker does not need to be slow, it depends on how you code it. And by the way... I dont want to change gamemaking language now, because im so used to the gm language. But perhaps later, I dont know...
iNs@nE
Not boasting or something but am way ahead of you people in this category.

I mod games totally to the greatest extent possible. I coded and designed the Episode 4 and Episode 5 files for the MMO A3 right from teh scratch. I am a Actoz Recruit and also a Mod on RZ Very Happy
enygmasoft
iNs@nE wrote:
Not boasting or something but am way ahead of you people in this category.

I mod games totally to the greatest extent possible. I coded and designed the Episode 4 and Episode 5 files for the MMO A3 right from teh scratch. I am a Actoz Recruit and also a Mod on RZ Very Happy


Good times, and mods make coding much easier. What did you use to create the graphics for the mods?
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Well, I just managed to let you see other peoples move around as 3d models without any lagg, so I think it will work just fine Very Happy

Gamemaker does not need to be slow, it depends on how you code it. And by the way... I dont want to change gamemaking language now, because im so used to the gm language. But perhaps later, I dont know...


That was anothe reason why I got Dark Basic Pro, because I had extensive familarity with the older Dark Basic programming language.

The same rule applies to every programming language, which is why I dowloaded some demos to see the potential of professionalism that can be done and I found that DarkBasic Pro has all the graphical goodies, and networking goodies that Direct X allows. Granted it does not work on non windows platforms. but that is such a small sliver of the global computer pie, in the end you are lossing 10%, and I thinkg Im overestimating by a lot.
ShawnKelfonne
Another question. has anyone ever tried to do any game creation for any of the handheld game systems? I know there's a lot of homebrew activity on both the NDS and the PSP, and I'm wondering if anyone around here has ever given it a shot?
iNs@nE
enygmasoft wrote:
iNs@nE wrote:
Not boasting or something but am way ahead of you people in this category.

I mod games totally to the greatest extent possible. I coded and designed the Episode 4 and Episode 5 files for the MMO A3 right from teh scratch. I am a Actoz Recruit and also a Mod on RZ Very Happy


Good times, and mods make coding much easier. What did you use to create the graphics for the mods?


I wasnt talking about Mod's for a game. I am a MOd on RZ..well forget that.,..

coming back to the topic - I develop my designs etc using 3D Studio Max, Maya and PS and then implement them by writing scripts and coding is done in C, Perl, VB .....Delphi sometimes too....

I make the games right from the scratch....I guess I've gone past the stage of a starter now.. Razz
wombatrpgs
Quote:
Another question. has anyone ever tried to do any game creation for any of the handheld game systems? I know there's a lot of homebrew activity on both the NDS and the PSP, and I'm wondering if anyone around here has ever given it a shot?


Unfortunately not, although I've seen a few produced through that process... Any idea where resources for that sort of thing might be available? I may give it a try, although I believe that's way out of my league... Only so much C can do for you...
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:


Unfortunately not, although I've seen a few produced through that process... Any idea where resources for that sort of thing might be available? I may give it a try, although I believe that's way out of my league... Only so much C can do for you...


They're mainly written in C/C++ as far as I know. There are a few GBA / DS development sites out there, but I don't know of any offhand. I guess the biggest problem for developing on a DS would be that you'd need to find a way to actually get your code to the DS itself, which isn't always a simple task unless you've got the right equipment.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:


Unfortunately not, although I've seen a few produced through that process... Any idea where resources for that sort of thing might be available? I may give it a try, although I believe that's way out of my league... Only so much C can do for you...


They're mainly written in C/C++ as far as I know. There are a few GBA / DS development sites out there, but I don't know of any offhand. I guess the biggest problem for developing on a DS would be that you'd need to find a way to actually get your code to the DS itself, which isn't always a simple task unless you've got the right equipment.


And expensive imports, typically an empty ds cartrige with limited amount of memory, and a computer adapter to modigy the rom for them. However, coding into the DS I'm not to familiar with, but there has to be an SDK for it somewhere online. I never conisdered that as a vaiable option. Although the ds has a decent amout of horsepower, a PC is lighyears ahead of that so I'd rather have that be my limiing factor instead the ds.
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:


Unfortunately not, although I've seen a few produced through that process... Any idea where resources for that sort of thing might be available? I may give it a try, although I believe that's way out of my league... Only so much C can do for you...


They're mainly written in C/C++ as far as I know. There are a few GBA / DS development sites out there, but I don't know of any offhand. I guess the biggest problem for developing on a DS would be that you'd need to find a way to actually get your code to the DS itself, which isn't always a simple task unless you've got the right equipment.


And expensive imports, typically an empty ds cartrige with limited amount of memory, and a computer adapter to modigy the rom for them. However, coding into the DS I'm not to familiar with, but there has to be an SDK for it somewhere online. I never conisdered that as a vaiable option. Although the ds has a decent amout of horsepower, a PC is lighyears ahead of that so I'd rather have that be my limiing factor instead the ds.


True, but there's probably a lot of neat stuff you could do with the touchscreen if it were available to you. I picked up a product called "games and music" by Datel, which is a DS cart with a MicroSD card in it. Once they make file-system drivers for it, It will be able to support saving and loading in programs, so it would be an easy way to do development on the DS. Here's hoping that the wait time for said drivers isn't horrendously long.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Unfortunately not, although I've seen a few produced through that process... Any idea where resources for that sort of thing might be available? I may give it a try, although I believe that's way out of my league... Only so much C can do for you...


They're mainly written in C/C++ as far as I know. There are a few GBA / DS development sites out there, but I don't know of any offhand. I guess the biggest problem for developing on a DS would be that you'd need to find a way to actually get your code to the DS itself, which isn't always a simple task unless you've got the right equipment.


For some reason I still don't have a DS, so that's not the main problem, and as my skills in C can be described as more 'proficient' than 'advanced,' I'd prefer to stick with the simple stuff. Maybe I'll just use Wikipedia and Google to find a decent site...
catscratches
Yes, Game Maker IS slow, when using high-poly 3D models, which you likely would want to use, since the gaming generation today won't buy unless it has nice graphics (no, not everybody, but many).
LostOverThere
Indie Developer Vertigo Gaming just released their first commercial game, ShellBlast.

You should go check it out guys. Speaking of which, it is also made in Game Maker 7.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Yes, Game Maker IS slow, when using high-poly 3D models, which you likely would want to use, since the gaming generation today won't buy unless it has nice graphics (no, not everybody, but many).


How many polygons are used in the models that you would consider high?
I have not used it, but are those due to the program being slow or the hardware is to slow to run it?
wombatrpgs
Alright, I now have a new problem: I've finished my game, now how to get people to actually play and debug it, and attract visitors to my site. Anyone have any good ideas on this? It seems hard for a 256 color non MMO RPG to get any real audience except from old-school gamers, which could be a problem. I think 15 people have downloaded after two weeks?Maybe I'll just toil in onbscurity...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Alright, I now have a new problem: I've finished my game, now how to get people to actually play and debug it, and attract visitors to my site. Anyone have any good ideas on this? It seems hard for a 256 color non MMO RPG to get any real audience except from old-school gamers, which could be a problem. I think 15 people have downloaded after two weeks?Maybe I'll just toil in onbscurity...
\

Honestly that is the hardest part because no one is aware of that and what indie software is out there. You really are hardpress to gain attention on your site without some sort of marketing seutpl, which is not free. Think about how many millions of websites there are out there and the odds fairly slim that anyone will hit yours. however, Downloads.com is nice place to market that type of software, as is bearshare.com and limewire.com.

Also another good idea is we can debug our games here on thies forum
posting them up here.
wombatrpgs
That actually might be kind of nice to do, since it seems everyone is using a variety of tools to create a variety of different genres and styles of games... But I seriously doubt anyone here has the time to play anything while making something... I know I certainly don't.

Oh well. I might try and get it hosted somewhere frequented a bit more often and that could possibly take the site somewhere... But I can't seem to do that after trying to find some method for a few days...
Loghete
Right now I'm working on a First Person Puzzle in Blitz 3D, I'll tell you when I have a demo done =D
catscratches
First Person Puzzle, that sounds cool XP
dark_guardian216
I had to do a project for my school regarding Gamemaker, where we had to make a game using the Gamemaker, after many lessons and assignments, and to finally in our own groups generate a game and rubric to mark it with.

We were taught how to set the actions, and went a lot deeper with them, then were taught GML (Game Maker Language). We were then told to convert a game, by coding, to it again.

We managed, due to time constraints, to whip up a quick shooter with self-made graphics and other interesting features. if anybody wants a copy, they can PM me.
catscratches
You learned GM in school? Cool! Shocked
kicy
For 2D games i recommend Game Maker, to me it is the simplest and most flexible game maker for 2D games

For 3D games i would recommend 3D Gamestudio which to me is some pretty solid software
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
That actually might be kind of nice to do, since it seems everyone is using a variety of tools to create a variety of different genres and styles of games... But I seriously doubt anyone here has the time to play anything while making something... I know I certainly don't.

Oh well. I might try and get it hosted somewhere frequented a bit more often and that could possibly take the site somewhere... But I can't seem to do that after trying to find some method for a few days...


sad but true
I have no life and still its seems like it never enought time.
and when there is life gets in the way.
ShawnKelfonne
I've started taking a look at the Torque Game Builder as well, it's specifically made for 2D game creation, so I'm going to see how it stacks up.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
I've started taking a look at the Torque Game Builder as well, it's specifically made for 2D game creation, so I'm going to see how it stacks up.


Thats a new one atleast to me. What are its features.
Sparda
I use Game Maker to make my games. I have the registered version and I really like it. I usually use to to learn bits and peices of the language. Sometimes I make these small games to play from time to time.
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
I've started taking a look at the Torque Game Builder as well, it's specifically made for 2D game creation, so I'm going to see how it stacks up.


Thats a new one atleast to me. What are its features.


I don't know everything off hand, since I've only started messing with it recently.
Here's the page for it: http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgb/

It's like $100 for a license, but there's a 30 day trial on it that I'm making use of.
reddishblue
I will be beginning a project with Game Maker soon, and I was wondering, does anyone have a good jetpack engine, because the one I wrote...isn't very good, also, when you have a revolving sprite, you know how the lines look really bad when the sprite is facing a way that it wasn't ment to be facing in, does anyone know how to fix that...apart from duplicating it to face in every direction.

Help!
catscratches
The Jetpack engine depends on how you want it and which type of game it is. Jetz Rampage4:Revenge has a good jetpack engine so if you play that game by Shawn 64 you might get ideas on how to.

I don't think it is possible to fix it any other way =(, not in GM
LostOverThere
I decided, im going to teach myself BASIC!!! Smile
Loghete
LostOverThere wrote:
I decided, im going to teach myself BASIC!!! Smile


Wow, yesterday you told me you're learning Blitz..! Rolling Eyes
TurkishGamer
Gamemaker is the probably the easiest to use on the list. I even made a game with barely even knowing any computer languages.

Check my sig if you want to see the game that I made
macxthegamer
I use multiple of those listed, but mainly GM and Engine001(not listed) I just bought DarkBasic, so I hope to learn that, and you can download a game I made in GM called boops at:

http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/1561

Game description:

You are in your Booplane, and it gets sturck by lightning!!! You crash land home, and find that your once-peaceful homeland is swarming with invaders!!! You rush to the king, and he tells you to fight, you go home for a nap, and the king gets kidnapped! It's up to you to get the king back!

Controls:
WASD--move
Mouse--Shoot

enjoy!

cheers (:
-Macxthegamer
enygmasoft
macxthegamer wrote:
I use multiple of those listed, but mainly GM and Engine001(not listed) I just bought DarkBasic, so I hope to learn that, and you can download a game I made in GM called boops at:

http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/1561

Game description:

You are in your Booplane, and it gets sturck by lightning!!! You crash land home, and find that your once-peaceful homeland is swarming with invaders!!! You rush to the king, and he tells you to fight, you go home for a nap, and the king gets kidnapped! It's up to you to get the king back!

Controls:
WASD--move
Mouse--Shoot

enjoy!

cheers (:
-Macxthegamer


gamemaker seems like a very popular gamemaking software, which is good and dont forget to vote for those.
LostOverThere
I hate YoYo Games though. The server is so slow!
catscratches
Yeah, YoYoGames ruined the fun with GM.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Yeah, YoYoGames ruined the fun with GM.


I have not used any third party website. It took long enough to setup mine so that I can won't be sharing too much server bandwidth.

My site has been up on frihost for a 10 months now and i have never had any sort of webservice issues.
takashiro
I like NES the best. Perhaps it is too old for many people to play. But it's very small. Even a game program is only 278kb. But the screen of the game is not very good.
wombatrpgs
Wait, you mean to make games for? ...I haven't really had much experience in that area...

But for the graphics, in some games thats important, but for making RPGs most of the time like I do, its not that important.
enygmasoft
takashiro wrote:
I like NES the best. Perhaps it is too old for many people to play. But it's very small. Even a game program is only 278kb. But the screen of the game is not very good.



Honestly in terms of ROM programing, its really specific in terms of what the hardware allows and most of them are impossible to test physically. Just because the Emulator runs that, acquring the hardware to test it on is difficult or impossible, depending on what you want system you wish to code for.
ShawnKelfonne
Game consoles also have a lot of limitations on how you can program for them. Sure, the NES games end up being something like 256k, but that ends up being a major limitation. There were so many tricks used to get around the limitations of the NES though, that it's actually pretty interesting. (Things like layering sprites on top of one another in order to use more than 4 colors, doing crazy things with the refresh-rate in order to get more sprites on the screen at once, and so on...)
Boffel
Does anyone here know a good place to start learning java?

I have worked with gamemaker in 3 years now, and I want to try learning browser games so I can have them on my site. And then you can also play them on wii and ps3. I like java most, so any good ideas? Any help programs or something?

It would also be best if it is free, because yeah you know...

I need a good place to start, if you know any books to, please tell me.
catscratches
There is a Game maker for Java in development, it's open source but not completely finished yet... www.g-java.com
vrock
I have always wanted to learn how to make 3D games. So I started to search for game making books. I found a lot of ebooks related to game making and I found out that in order to make 3D games I must know how to program in DirectX. So I started to learn C++ as it is the main language that is used in DirectX. It took me a month to master C++ and I found out that C++ is a very helpfull language not only for making games but for other programs too.
When I started to learn DirectX I just couldn't understand anything because there where too many functions involved and I haven't found any book that explains DirectX clearly.
So I haven't made a game yet. Therefore I need to know some good books available online that I can use to learn DirectX. Please give me some suggestions.
enygmasoft
vrock wrote:
I have always wanted to learn how to make 3D games. So I started to search for game making books. I found a lot of ebooks related to game making and I found out that in order to make 3D games I must know how to program in DirectX. So I started to learn C++ as it is the main language that is used in DirectX. It took me a month to master C++ and I found out that C++ is a very helpfull language not only for making games but for other programs too.
When I started to learn DirectX I just couldn't understand anything because there where too many functions involved and I haven't found any book that explains DirectX clearly.
So I haven't made a game yet. Therefore I need to know some good books available online that I can use to learn DirectX. Please give me some suggestions.


Thats the biggest reason why I chose DarK Basic Professional, because I uses Direct X 9.0c, and without all the headache of learning all the Goodies that the SDK alows for Direct X and the more goodies, the more functions that you have to know, to get the job done. And direct X 10 is adding more functionality to that.

I personally fell in love with this site

http://www.freetechbooks.com/index.php

The name is self explanatory and a fairly vast selection of goodies to peruse online for free with the author's consent.
ShawnKelfonne
Boffel wrote:
Does anyone here know a good place to start learning java?

I have worked with gamemaker in 3 years now, and I want to try learning browser games so I can have them on my site. And then you can also play them on wii and ps3. I like java most, so any good ideas? Any help programs or something?

It would also be best if it is free, because yeah you know...

I need a good place to start, if you know any books to, please tell me.


If you're looking to do web-based games for the Wii and PS3, you're better off looking at something like Flash 7.0. (I think that's the highest version of Flash that the Wii supports).
Flash can do pretty much everything you would do in Java as far as games are concerned, and has a higher rate of compatibility with different browsers.

That said, check your local bookstore. I know there's specifically a book called Game Programming in Java that you might want to look for. (They used it for my Software Engineering class in school.) Went through making platform games, all the way up to 3D rendered first person games, so it's a good overview book.

While I'm on the topic of books, I think a good one for anyone who is seriously considering game design to own would be this one: http://www.amazon.com/Game-Design-Second-Bob-Bates/dp/1592004938/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5948497-4316718?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181675894&sr=8-1

It doesn't delve into programming, but instead, what makes a good game, and what doesn't. There are lots of helpful tips, and it's a fairly lively read, with information from people in the industry and some examples that you could learn from.
wombatrpgs
Interesting book...

I've considered becoming a designer, but it seems too far-fetched to actually happen... Heard a few months ago on NPR about one class of majors in Video Game Design. There were maybe a hundred graduates, and scouts from the industry did come, but they took maybe three of them. Its really not a realisitic career goal, is it?

So I've decided to look into becoming a programmer instead. If I get lucky maybe I'll work for Nintendo or someplace, but still, as a software engineer you can just make a few hobby games on the side as well as NOT be unemployed...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Interesting book...

I've considered becoming a designer, but it seems too far-fetched to actually happen... Heard a few months ago on NPR about one class of majors in Video Game Design. There were maybe a hundred graduates, and scouts from the industry did come, but they took maybe three of them. Its really not a realisitic career goal, is it?

So I've decided to look into becoming a programmer instead. If I get lucky maybe I'll work for Nintendo or someplace, but still, as a software engineer you can just make a few hobby games on the side as well as NOT be unemployed...


Interesting point, and they say hollywood is rough, but that the reason why I changed majors, I was seriosly look at Video games as carrer, but Its hard to get in and even if you do, most jobs are contracts, so you are never fully employed.

I have ventured to be hobbyist game designer, now all of the jobs cut into the hobby, but that is an excellent time killer, especially since I want to do everything, the art and sceince that it takes to make the game.
vonboy
i have been using game maker off and on for a few years now. i have only ever finished one game. i have probably start a million projects, but they never ended up into anything fruitful because i just got bored of them. i made a site on here like a year ago, but i guess i got so busy i forgot about it, and it got deleted. i'm trying to set up my website again though, and i realy want it to last this time lol.
enygmasoft
vonboy wrote:
i have been using game maker off and on for a few years now. i have only ever finished one game. i have probably start a million projects, but they never ended up into anything fruitful because i just got bored of them. i made a site on here like a year ago, but i guess i got so busy i forgot about it, and it got deleted. i'm trying to set up my website again though, and i realy want it to last this time lol.


I still have plans to finish of the main project, but I have thinking about making easier to make puzzle games and start selling those
wombatrpgs
vonboy wrote:
i have been using game maker off and on for a few years now. i have only ever finished one game. i have probably start a million projects, but they never ended up into anything fruitful because i just got bored of them. i made a site on here like a year ago, but i guess i got so busy i forgot about it, and it got deleted. i'm trying to set up my website again though, and i realy want it to last this time lol.


The boredom thing happened to me once, and now I've learned... I have one main project, well thought out and absolutely gigantic. All of the other 'concept-games' are minor, but I've made them for their one purpose and it works. But to really prevent massive project failures, I've found its best to rush really fast through the game skeleton and then add the extra things that make a game decent. Its much easier to get the tough stuff out of the way than to try and make a game throough, start to finsih, in one try.

And on another note, anyone seen this massive list before? Really insightful in a way if you're making RPGs...
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html... Cliches! Yay!



enygmasoft wrote:
Interesting point, and they say hollywood is rough, but that the reason why I changed majors, I was seriosly look at Video games as carrer, but Its hard to get in and even if you do, most jobs are contracts, so you are never fully employed.


As highschool freshman I really haven't had to look too hard at careers yet, so I can't relate too much. But I've really wanted to design since I was five, so it really was dissapointing when I heard other people actually wanted to do this kind of stuff... Oh well, no one had ever heard of people doing this ten or twelve years ago...

But contracting sucks... The problem with a lot of people wanting to do this is that the job pool becomes too big and you end up with an unfair market, just contracting out to the lowest paid... People like Miyamoto have it made. And a lot of the people I know who have it as a career goal are the absolute nerdiest people you'll ever meet. At least I have intelligence to realize that playing every single game will NOT get you a job...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
vonboy wrote:
i have been using game maker off and on for a few years now. i have only ever finished one game. i have probably start a million projects, but they never ended up into anything fruitful because i just got bored of them. i made a site on here like a year ago, but i guess i got so busy i forgot about it, and it got deleted. i'm trying to set up my website again though, and i realy want it to last this time lol.


The boredom thing happened to me once, and now I've learned... I have one main project, well thought out and absolutely gigantic. All of the other 'concept-games' are minor, but I've made them for their one purpose and it works. But to really prevent massive project failures, I've found its best to rush really fast through the game skeleton and then add the extra things that make a game decent. Its much easier to get the tough stuff out of the way than to try and make a game throough, start to finsih, in one try.

And on another note, anyone seen this massive list before? Really insightful in a way if you're making RPGs...
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html... Cliches! Yay!



enygmasoft wrote:
Interesting point, and they say hollywood is rough, but that the reason why I changed majors, I was seriosly look at Video games as carrer, but Its hard to get in and even if you do, most jobs are contracts, so you are never fully employed.


As highschool freshman I really haven't had to look too hard at careers yet, so I can't relate too much. But I've really wanted to design since I was five, so it really was dissapointing when I heard other people actually wanted to do this kind of stuff... Oh well, no one had ever heard of people doing this ten or twelve years ago...

But contracting sucks... The problem with a lot of people wanting to do this is that the job pool becomes too big and you end up with an unfair market, just contracting out to the lowest paid... People like Miyamoto have it made. And a lot of the people I know who have it as a career goal are the absolute nerdiest people you'll ever meet. At least I have intelligence to realize that playing every single game will NOT get you a job...


Its true, and some companies have a massive pull in terms of the amount of people wanting to work for them, there are many others, but not in the same league. these are the bargain game companies looking to hire, but again its a different type of company.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:

Its true, and some companies have a massive pull in terms of the amount of people wanting to work for them, there are many others, but not in the same league. these are the bargain game companies looking to hire, but again its a different type of company.


That seems more of an ideal company to work for, really. You can actually work on a team, I suppose. But from amateur groups looking to form some sort of game-making coalition, it generally ends up failing getting graphical artists, not designers. But then again, I suppose for a programmer would be easier to find work for one of these. Even if there aren't too many job openings, its still a great hobby, and I'm still going to be taking computer science...
fiendskull9
im currently doing Model skinning and some graphic design for a small game company called ValdeGames
catscratches
Nice site. But if you look in the right-bottom corner, personally I would like it whole and not like that, but that's just IMO.

I havn't been programming for long. Yikes. Better start something soon.
enygmasoft
fiendskull9 wrote:
im currently doing Model skinning and some graphic design for a small game company called ValdeGames


nice website
donations to support a game development site.
Interesting proposition.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:

And on another note, anyone seen this massive list before? Really insightful in a way if you're making RPGs...
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html... Cliches! Yay!


Ahh, the grand list of RPG Cliches, always a fun read. It's also fun to take your project, run down the list and see how many you end up hitting. I try to avoid some of the major cliches, for example, the hero's parents in my game's story end up surviving all the way through, the female "sidekick" is in no way helpless, and character stats don't simply arbitrarily increase because you've killed enough slimes.

Conversely though, yes, the capital city gets destroyed at some point during the game (not at the beginning at least!), enemies do get stronger the further you get from the starting point, and yes, you'll have as much time to "rush" to stop the final boss as you want.

Sometimes you just can't avoid a few cliches. Especially since nearly everything has been done already. Try too hard to make your game devoid of any cliches at all, and you'll end up with an awkward mess if you're not careful.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
Sometimes you just can't avoid a few cliches. Especially since nearly everything has been done already. Try too hard to make your game devoid of any cliches at all, and you'll end up with an awkward mess if you're not careful.


Actually, I have half of what could be called a game that has NONE of those cliches, actually kind of an interesting project. Its about fifteen minutes long, I hope to complete the other three quarters of it this summer, when I have the chance. Its really kind of funny, actually, as its implemented where the main character's brain has been rotted by Final Fantasy so much that he believes his world to be an RPG.

Adventures of Mr Bill: The clicheless game...
http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=18
Keep in mind these things will be needed to play it:
http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=16
http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=21

If you feel like criticizing that or just having a good laugh at it, be my guest. Although compared to what I'm making now its crap...
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:

And on another note, anyone seen this massive list before? Really insightful in a way if you're making RPGs...
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html... Cliches! Yay!


Ahh, the grand list of RPG Cliches, always a fun read. It's also fun to take your project, run down the list and see how many you end up hitting. I try to avoid some of the major cliches, for example, the hero's parents in my game's story end up surviving all the way through, the female "sidekick" is in no way helpless, and character stats don't simply arbitrarily increase because you've killed enough slimes.

Conversely though, yes, the capital city gets destroyed at some point during the game (not at the beginning at least!), enemies do get stronger the further you get from the starting point, and yes, you'll have as much time to "rush" to stop the final boss as you want.

Sometimes you just can't avoid a few cliches. Especially since nearly everything has been done already. Try too hard to make your game devoid of any cliches at all, and you'll end up with an awkward mess if you're not careful.


its a sad reality to write anything of real interest, it has to have cliches, but not to be overdone,

There needs to be a delicate balance, otherwise you end up writting hollywood grade material.
catscratches
It's funny making games that noone has made before Wink It's hard to think of great things to do though. I have a project in planning stage that is quite... odd =P
wombatrpgs
At the moment I'm trying to develop my game in this fashion... You have a main plot, something kind of simple that doesn't take a lot of time. Except, the bosses are horridly overpowered if you play through the plotline straight. You'll be totally owned at every corner.

The solution in a normal sense would be to train off of random encounters... However, in this case, the world would be gigantic enough that you don't train in that sense, but fight random encounters as you explore, complete sidequests, and try to find some of the numerous unlockables. The game would be wide enough to expand the rather dense plotline. Eventually, all of the little sidequests would somehow tie in to the main thread. You'd get a completion rating at the end of the game, so for replayability, you would go after a 100% completion.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
At the moment I'm trying to develop my game in this fashion... You have a main plot, something kind of simple that doesn't take a lot of time. Except, the bosses are horridly overpowered if you play through the plotline straight. You'll be totally owned at every corner.

The solution in a normal sense would be to train off of random encounters... However, in this case, the world would be gigantic enough that you don't train in that sense, but fight random encounters as you explore, complete sidequests, and try to find some of the numerous unlockables. The game would be wide enough to expand the rather dense plotline. Eventually, all of the little sidequests would somehow tie in to the main thread. You'd get a completion rating at the end of the game, so for replayability, you would go after a 100% completion.


That is a very good way to make it all come together.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
At the moment I'm trying to develop my game in this fashion... You have a main plot, something kind of simple that doesn't take a lot of time. Except, the bosses are horridly overpowered if you play through the plotline straight. You'll be totally owned at every corner.

The solution in a normal sense would be to train off of random encounters... However, in this case, the world would be gigantic enough that you don't train in that sense, but fight random encounters as you explore, complete sidequests, and try to find some of the numerous unlockables. The game would be wide enough to expand the rather dense plotline. Eventually, all of the little sidequests would somehow tie in to the main thread. You'd get a completion rating at the end of the game, so for replayability, you would go after a 100% completion.


It sounds decent enough, but you've also got to make sure that you give the player a feeling of purpose as they're doing all these seemingly unconnected side quests and exploration, otherwise they're going to lose interest fairly quickly.

It's always hard to strike a balance between a linear narrative and free exploration. The best way I've thought of to deal with that sort of thing is to give the player a bunch of tasks that eventually need to be completed in order to advance the plot along, but that don't have to be done in a set order. So say you need to go to two different ruins to collect something needed to finish theoretical doomsd^H^H^H^H^H^H.. world-saving device-A. Getting part one and part two are both tasks that need to be done, but it's up to the player to decide whether to go for one or two first. Expand the number of things that can be done at once, and you end up with a decent feeling of freedom.

If you really want to get fancy with it, increase the difficulty based on how many of the tasks they have done, so no matter which path they choose, it seems like they chose the right one to the player, because the difficulty is increasing along with their power.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
At the moment I'm trying to develop my game in this fashion... You have a main plot, something kind of simple that doesn't take a lot of time. Except, the bosses are horridly overpowered if you play through the plotline straight. You'll be totally owned at every corner.

The solution in a normal sense would be to train off of random encounters... However, in this case, the world would be gigantic enough that you don't train in that sense, but fight random encounters as you explore, complete sidequests, and try to find some of the numerous unlockables. The game would be wide enough to expand the rather dense plotline. Eventually, all of the little sidequests would somehow tie in to the main thread. You'd get a completion rating at the end of the game, so for replayability, you would go after a 100% completion.


It sounds decent enough, but you've also got to make sure that you give the player a feeling of purpose as they're doing all these seemingly unconnected side quests and exploration, otherwise they're going to lose interest fairly quickly.

It's always hard to strike a balance between a linear narrative and free exploration. The best way I've thought of to deal with that sort of thing is to give the player a bunch of tasks that eventually need to be completed in order to advance the plot along, but that don't have to be done in a set order. So say you need to go to two different ruins to collect something needed to finish theoretical doomsd^H^H^H^H^H^H.. world-saving device-A. Getting part one and part two are both tasks that need to be done, but it's up to the player to decide whether to go for one or two first. Expand the number of things that can be done at once, and you end up with a decent feeling of freedom.

If you really want to get fancy with it, increase the difficulty based on how many of the tasks they have done, so no matter which path they choose, it seems like they chose the right one to the player, because the difficulty is increasing along with their power.


It sad but, true that if you can go the wrong way you will. You have to curve there choices, unless we can setup the matrix.
wombatrpgs
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
It sounds decent enough, but you've also got to make sure that you give the player a feeling of purpose as they're doing all these seemingly unconnected side quests and exploration, otherwise they're going to lose interest fairly quickly.

It's always hard to strike a balance between a linear narrative and free exploration. The best way I've thought of to deal with that sort of thing is to give the player a bunch of tasks that eventually need to be completed in order to advance the plot along, but that don't have to be done in a set order. So say you need to go to two different ruins to collect something needed to finish theoretical doomsd^H^H^H^H^H^H.. world-saving device-A. Getting part one and part two are both tasks that need to be done, but it's up to the player to decide whether to go for one or two first. Expand the number of things that can be done at once, and you end up with a decent feeling of freedom.


As far as unrelated goes, I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to shed some light on the main story and characters through subplots. Even if it doesn't do much in the long run, you can at least develop the characters. I've actually found that a linear narrative is very good when done right. However, I've only ever came up with one good plot idea, and that's only about half-way done at the moment, maybe I'll throw that up here some other time...

However, the one I'm using now doesn't stand up on its own. I'm trying to use the sidequests the add to the main plot at the conclusion of the quest rather than the game. And I think what I'll try to do is 'branch' off the story rather than run parallel. For example, you squash an elven revolution to clear the Forest Temple. You could continue on with the main quests, or continue to fight the elves into the stronghold, which is part of another quest, (something about an abducted magical cat... long story)

Also, I've really enjoyed games with a 'universal' feel. There's more area to the game than is needed. Some games with a linear narrative seem too constrained. You can only access areas vital to the storyline. I recently rigged up a system similar to the world map of Zelda II, with a lot of hidden areas located by terrain differences and such. Its packed with so many tiny insignificant locations its bordering on excessive.

But I suppose each system is suited to game it was made with in mind. The plotline split is very nice, alternate endings and stories really add to replayability... I'm personally thinking of Wario Land 2. Kind of hard to do story splits with a game like that, but it was done. And very hard to find all of the endings... But I might try adjusting enemy levels based off of hero levels... It would work well with the multiple party encounter system.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
It sounds decent enough, but you've also got to make sure that you give the player a feeling of purpose as they're doing all these seemingly unconnected side quests and exploration, otherwise they're going to lose interest fairly quickly.

It's always hard to strike a balance between a linear narrative and free exploration. The best way I've thought of to deal with that sort of thing is to give the player a bunch of tasks that eventually need to be completed in order to advance the plot along, but that don't have to be done in a set order. So say you need to go to two different ruins to collect something needed to finish theoretical doomsd^H^H^H^H^H^H.. world-saving device-A. Getting part one and part two are both tasks that need to be done, but it's up to the player to decide whether to go for one or two first. Expand the number of things that can be done at once, and you end up with a decent feeling of freedom.


As far as unrelated goes, I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to shed some light on the main story and characters through subplots. Even if it doesn't do much in the long run, you can at least develop the characters. I've actually found that a linear narrative is very good when done right. However, I've only ever came up with one good plot idea, and that's only about half-way done at the moment, maybe I'll throw that up here some other time...

However, the one I'm using now doesn't stand up on its own. I'm trying to use the sidequests the add to the main plot at the conclusion of the quest rather than the game. And I think what I'll try to do is 'branch' off the story rather than run parallel. For example, you squash an elven revolution to clear the Forest Temple. You could continue on with the main quests, or continue to fight the elves into the stronghold, which is part of another quest, (something about an abducted magical cat... long story)

Also, I've really enjoyed games with a 'universal' feel. There's more area to the game than is needed. Some games with a linear narrative seem too constrained. You can only access areas vital to the storyline. I recently rigged up a system similar to the world map of Zelda II, with a lot of hidden areas located by terrain differences and such. Its packed with so many tiny insignificant locations its bordering on excessive.

But I suppose each system is suited to game it was made with in mind. The plotline split is very nice, alternate endings and stories really add to replayability... I'm personally thinking of Wario Land 2. Kind of hard to do story splits with a game like that, but it was done. And very hard to find all of the endings... But I might try adjusting enemy levels based off of hero levels... It would work well with the multiple party encounter system.


I personally use a simple narrative, atleast for the section that is completed for the demo, making it focus around the main character. As it stands now its far from finished
only one chapter completed at best, but its very well covers all the details.
Boffel
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Does anyone here know a good place to start learning java?

I have worked with gamemaker in 3 years now, and I want to try learning browser games so I can have them on my site. And then you can also play them on wii and ps3. I like java most, so any good ideas? Any help programs or something?

It would also be best if it is free, because yeah you know...

I need a good place to start, if you know any books to, please tell me.


If you're looking to do web-based games for the Wii and PS3, you're better off looking at something like Flash 7.0. (I think that's the highest version of Flash that the Wii supports).
Flash can do pretty much everything you would do in Java as far as games are concerned, and has a higher rate of compatibility with different browsers.

That said, check your local bookstore. I know there's specifically a book called Game Programming in Java that you might want to look for. (They used it for my Software Engineering class in school.) Went through making platform games, all the way up to 3D rendered first person games, so it's a good overview book.

While I'm on the topic of books, I think a good one for anyone who is seriously considering game design to own would be this one: http://www.amazon.com/Game-Design-Second-Bob-Bates/dp/1592004938/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5948497-4316718?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181675894&sr=8-1

It doesn't delve into programming, but instead, what makes a good game, and what doesn't. There are lots of helpful tips, and it's a fairly lively read, with information from people in the industry and some examples that you could learn from.


Thanks alot, I will try to find the book in my local library I think they might have one. And I will perhaps also try to look at some Flash books to, but Im not sure I will use it yet...
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:


As far as unrelated goes, I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to shed some light on the main story and characters through subplots. Even if it doesn't do much in the long run, you can at least develop the characters. I've actually found that a linear narrative is very good when done right. However, I've only ever came up with one good plot idea, and that's only about half-way done at the moment, maybe I'll throw that up here some other time...

However, the one I'm using now doesn't stand up on its own. I'm trying to use the sidequests the add to the main plot at the conclusion of the quest rather than the game. And I think what I'll try to do is 'branch' off the story rather than run parallel. For example, you squash an elven revolution to clear the Forest Temple. You could continue on with the main quests, or continue to fight the elves into the stronghold, which is part of another quest, (something about an abducted magical cat... long story)

Also, I've really enjoyed games with a 'universal' feel. There's more area to the game than is needed. Some games with a linear narrative seem too constrained. You can only access areas vital to the storyline. I recently rigged up a system similar to the world map of Zelda II, with a lot of hidden areas located by terrain differences and such. Its packed with so many tiny insignificant locations its bordering on excessive.

But I suppose each system is suited to game it was made with in mind. The plotline split is very nice, alternate endings and stories really add to replayability... I'm personally thinking of Wario Land 2. Kind of hard to do story splits with a game like that, but it was done. And very hard to find all of the endings... But I might try adjusting enemy levels based off of hero levels... It would work well with the multiple party encounter system.


Well, yes, of course, when done right, subplots do a very good job of shedding light on some of the characters, and the best ones come about as a result of the characters themselves, not because GuyInTown-A decided to tell you about a dragon that needs slaying. Characters should all have some sort of motivation that brings them to continue along with the hero, and ideally, sidequests would flesh out WHY they decide to come along.
MJMX
game maker is easy to use, but it is not a freeware. It's a shareware many good options are disabled in it. (if you havent paid) also when i tried it year ago, i couldn't compile the games, i could only run them with game maker whi´ch sucked Mad
catscratches
It IS possible to create an executable of the game. Use the Create Executable option in the File-menu. -.-
enygmasoft
MJMX wrote:
game maker is easy to use, but it is not a freeware. It's a shareware many good options are disabled in it. (if you havent paid) also when i tried it year ago, i couldn't compile the games, i could only run them with game maker whi´ch sucked Mad



just like anything else in life you get what you pay for. I personally have not used the gamemaker other than as the shareware version whose main point is to display the gamemakers utilities. If you could compile anything freely than why pay for the full version?
catscratches
YOU CAN COMPILE FREELY, but the full version has many more functions as well as support for dlls which makes almost everything possible.
ShawnKelfonne
When we get demos and such done of games, we should really post the links to a download or something here. That way we can give each other feedback on what we think so far. No better critic than your peers after all.
wombatrpgs
If that's the case, I have a few beta versions up at my website already, along with a few other games I consider worthy of notice... Although I'm a bit of a perfectionist and would prefer to get the thing into proper shape before showing it. But I guess its fine to sample right. By the name of Team Olympus:

http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?cat=2
And you'll need this to play anything: http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=21
And maybe this: http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=16

But don't expect it to be polished just yet... Still seems a bit kiddy in the beginning.
Ryuujin
I voted other. I work on browser games. I code in PHP and mySQL.
Currently coding one called Medieval life. But its really hard....
enygmasoft
Ryuujin wrote:
I voted other. I work on browser games. I code in PHP and mySQL.
Currently coding one called Medieval life. But its really hard....


I did not think PHP coding would work in game, since all the information is run on the server, which i though would make it useless to do games which need to be run on the client, to make things faster.
catscratches
1. There are A LOT of games using pure HTML, PHP and MySQL, on the internet.

2. You CAN use limited PHP on a client. You just have to put a small executable in the same folder as the game and then do some things with it to send PHP commands. I've used a DLL doing it (in GM).
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
1. There are A LOT of games using pure HTML, PHP and MySQL, on the internet.

2. You CAN use limited PHP on a client. You just have to put a small executable in the same folder as the game and then do some things with it to send PHP commands. I've used a DLL doing it (in GM).


The power of dll's, good to know. That makes anything possible.
catscratches
Yeah.. almost. Except for speed issues. (can you make me a dll that makes my game 4x as fast?? =P, serioulsy, I've heard the question)
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Yeah.. almost. Except for speed issues. (can you make me a dll that makes my game 4x as fast?? =P, serioulsy, I've heard the question)


thats the downside to dll, typically because you cant modify the code underneath it. which typically means if its slow, theres not much you can do. But there also other times where dlls just dont work and you are hadpress to come to a issue to a bug, whose source code you have no access to.
catscratches
Yeah, I tried to make a multiplayer game with a dll since GM's mplay is so slow. But the game chrashed when I entered a wrong ip number (I guess someone will do this sometime, so it's unacceptable). It ended up with me using mplay_ anyways in the end -.- (it was a contest so I didn't have the time to look up and learn another dll)
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Yeah, I tried to make a multiplayer game with a dll since GM's mplay is so slow. But the game chrashed when I entered a wrong ip number (I guess someone will do this sometime, so it's unacceptable). It ended up with me using mplay_ anyways in the end -.- (it was a contest so I didn't have the time to look up and learn another dll)


Those are always fun
I had an interesting issue using a physics dll, which I could never get to work properyly using my
media. It had a demo, and It would work with the inclueded media, but not with mine
i even went as far as renaming the media to match the demo, all were the same file extenetion. it would never work in the same fashion that the demo did. the demo was fps physics setup, that I could never get the shooting fuctionality to work it would randomly turn on and off with my media
the included media worked flawlessly.

good times to say the least, but I ended up moving on to another dll.
catscratches
I prefer to do all the psychics myself. That's much funnier and you have all the control you want. Also, psyhics are so easy in GM so you can do them yourself. I dunno how it is in other languages but at least C++ also seems to be easy to do physics for.
ShawnKelfonne
wombatrpgs wrote:
If that's the case, I have a few beta versions up at my website already, along with a few other games I consider worthy of notice... Although I'm a bit of a perfectionist and would prefer to get the thing into proper shape before showing it. But I guess its fine to sample right. By the name of Team Olympus:

http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?cat=2
And you'll need this to play anything: http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=21
And maybe this: http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=16

But don't expect it to be polished just yet... Still seems a bit kiddy in the beginning.


I'll make sure to check it out when I'm home. (I don't want to install the RTP on my computer here at work, and it'd probably look bad for me to be playing an RPG when I'm supposed to be coding business apps. Can't quite pass off Massive Damage as a compiler directive. =P ) Ahh, the good old font fix. I hate when people take screenshots of their RM2K and RM2K3 games without having the fixed font. Makes it so impossible to read, although, RMXP uses any Windows Font, so that problem is gone completely in the newer RPGMakers.
catscratches
I used to use RPG Maker before, but the lack of cutomizability and blood made me quit and go to Game Maker instead, which in my opinion is much better since you have all the control you want. The only problem is the speed of the games and the 3D support, which is extremely weak.

So I've started C++ with Irrlicht instead. Irrlicht is a free 3D engine for C++ (also has a JAva wrapper called Jirr). It also has IrrEdit, which is an editor in which you can create IrrScenes to use for levels etc. It is really good and you should all check it out at http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net
It has support for many file formats and mant different functions and it's all Open Source!
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
I prefer to do all the psychics myself. That's much funnier and you have all the control you want. Also, psyhics are so easy in GM so you can do them yourself. I dunno how it is in other languages but at least C++ also seems to be easy to do physics for.


I on the other hand would have an incredibly mindnumbing task of setting up the physics for a 3D game, which far more complicated then our 2D coutnerpART. That I have a good enough grasp of vector math to that mess, but the downside is that bugs abound and think about how many equations i would have to code to get the job done. physics dll's certainly have saved me quite a bit of time.
catscratches
Blah, time. What's so important about time =P Ok, I do agree that making own collision systems are just boring but psychics, I prefer to do them myself, on matter how much time it takes (else the corpses won't get like I want them). As well as blood systems, that's IMO one of the most important parts of a game. No good blood system and it'll be either boring or laggy. Cause using instances for blood certainly lags a lot. But if you don't have blood that stays on walls and floor and so on... then the game will be boring.
I also prefer to do spriting and music by myself, as well as sound effects if I have the time (meaning, it's not a contest). It makes me more satisfied with my creation if I've made it 100% by myself.
LostOverThere
Im planning to give G-Java a try. Has anyone had experience in it? Is it good? Bad? Ugly?
catscratches
I trie alpha-1...and it didn't work.

But now alpha-2 is out and I havn't tried it. I'll use real Java instead with Notepad. Don't want any helping programs. Java is so damn simple anyway. You can learn it in like 2 weeks. And then you're ready to create applets and application. Some additional week and you're a master on it. I guess it takes more time learning how to use software to develop Java than learning Java in Notepad.

Download Java at: http://java.sun.com
wombatrpgs
I've tried using Java via WordPad to write a few applications... Nothing very advanced, mostly just clones of Notepad, paint, and Sokoban... Unfortunately, its rather tedious to keep using Command Prompt to compile everything, but I haven't used any helper programs.

But as far as learning to use software to use Java... I would see this as easier to do than just using Notepad all the time.
ShawnKelfonne
catscratches wrote:
Blah, time. What's so important about time =P Ok, I do agree that making own collision systems are just boring but psychics, I prefer to do them myself, on matter how much time it takes (else the corpses won't get like I want them). As well as blood systems, that's IMO one of the most important parts of a game. No good blood system and it'll be either boring or laggy. Cause using instances for blood certainly lags a lot. But if you don't have blood that stays on walls and floor and so on... then the game will be boring.
I also prefer to do spriting and music by myself, as well as sound effects if I have the time (meaning, it's not a contest). It makes me more satisfied with my creation if I've made it 100% by myself.


See, I have no problem finding team members to help out with things, especially if they have skills that I don't. I mean, I'm not a music composer, so I have a friend composing the midi music. It's almost better to work in a small team of people anyway, because then you can bounce ideas off of each other and get instant feedback on them. Just because something sounds awesome to you, doesn't mean it will be awesome to people playing it, and when you're doing it all yourself, you may be blinded to that fact.

Also, you seem to be really focused on blood. You are aware that there were many great games out there before people had extreme blood effects in their games, right? =P All I'm saying, is when picking a tool to work with, unless your game is going to be something like "Bloodfeast: The Bloody Bloodening" or something like that, you may want to rethink how much importance you put on that aspect of it.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Blah, time. What's so important about time =P Ok, I do agree that making own collision systems are just boring but psychics, I prefer to do them myself, on matter how much time it takes (else the corpses won't get like I want them). As well as blood systems, that's IMO one of the most important parts of a game. No good blood system and it'll be either boring or laggy. Cause using instances for blood certainly lags a lot. But if you don't have blood that stays on walls and floor and so on... then the game will be boring.
I also prefer to do spriting and music by myself, as well as sound effects if I have the time (meaning, it's not a contest). It makes me more satisfied with my creation if I've made it 100% by myself.


while I certainly cant argue there is a fun part of knowing everything is done by me. However, I came to the comclusion that If I do everything myself, unless I quit my job, this project will never be done. I also have the fun part of coding it all
I also like to say all the graphics are done by me, and i take so much longer working on the graphics than the actual code. No a bad thing, but not something I get to make a living doing
that would give me the right amount of time to get all the things done.
catscratches
wombatrpgs wrote:
I've tried using Java via WordPad to write a few applications... Nothing very advanced, mostly just clones of Notepad, paint, and Sokoban... Unfortunately, its rather tedious to keep using Command Prompt to compile everything, but I haven't used any helper programs.

But as far as learning to use software to use Java... I would see this as easier to do than just using Notepad all the time.

You could make a bat file that runs "javac -name; appletviewer -name;" so that you don't have to type anything in the commandprompt. Then it's just to run the file... or make a makefile.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
I used to use RPG Maker before, but the lack of cutomizability and blood made me quit and go to Game Maker instead, which in my opinion is much better since you have all the control you want. The only problem is the speed of the games and the 3D support, which is extremely weak.

So I've started C++ with Irrlicht instead. Irrlicht is a free 3D engine for C++ (also has a JAva wrapper called Jirr). It also has IrrEdit, which is an editor in which you can create IrrScenes to use for levels etc. It is really good and you should all check it out at http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net
It has support for many file formats and mant different functions and it's all Open Source!


I can assume that open GL correct?
I have messed with that to much, I fell in love with direct x shaders, the rest in history. Direct X always has more eye candy, but open gl has more performance.
Boffel
catscratches wrote:
I used to use RPG Maker before, but the lack of cutomizability and blood made me quit and go to Game Maker instead, which in my opinion is much better since you have all the control you want. The only problem is the speed of the games and the 3D support, which is extremely weak.

So I've started C++ with Irrlicht instead. Irrlicht is a free 3D engine for C++ (also has a JAva wrapper called Jirr). It also has IrrEdit, which is an editor in which you can create IrrScenes to use for levels etc. It is really good and you should all check it out at http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net
It has support for many file formats and mant different functions and it's all Open Source!


This looks really cool, I gonna check it out!!! I also just saw that it has support for Macintosh, that means I can use it on school to Very Happy
m-productions
Well, this will be my first post in this topic, which is kinda suprising for me, I have been reading all the post tho.

Anyway, For me, I hate gamemaker and rpgmakers now... (Ill get into that in a bit) for me, its pure coding now..and to me, thats the only way you can really call yourself a scripter.

I myself, started my game making hobby with good old starcraft, With this, i made many "Use map setting" maps. The reason I am even talking about this, is because this is what got me started in wanting to script. With these maps, I learned the basics of how to set things up, such as ON and OFF, very basic, but it was a massive help, and because it was so limtied, you really had to use your brain to make unique stuff happen, which is what scripting is all about right?

Next I moved onto the RPGMakers, I have all of them, 95,200,2003,XP, and 1,2,and 3 for the PS1/PS2. These I messt with for years, (and never made a normal rpg battle system) I always scripted my own, such as a tactics system, or a zelda style. .. ect, RPG makers are a great way to start learning, as they teach you Variables, and IF .. . ELSE .. ect, and you dont have to type them, its all in its own system, this really taught me a lot (and i didnt even know it at the time).

I then moved on to Morrowind, I made many mods for this. This was really my first area of "real" scripting, tho very basic, was very easy after knowing the basics.

Then at least, I moved to flash, where I have been at for a few years now. This is where my real learning of scripts has come from, As ACTION SCRIPT, has really got me learning, and I have made many games, one of which is http://www.voloxes.com

Now Im finaly moving on to the real stuff, c++, I am now starting to script my very first DS game, using c++ and PalIB (with the devkitpro of course) and this is where im at now. To me, i have to script something for me to feel like i really did something amazing, if i just using a click and play style, such as RPG maker now, I just dont get that feeling that makes game making fun.
wombatrpgs
Concerning actual scripting... It does seem kind of futile to be thrashing at the limitations of RPGmaker, but it actually can make complex things... But with an awful lot of bother. I know C and Java, but I can never bring myself to undertake massive projects with these languages, for some reason. Maybe I'm already way too involved with my RM2K project...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Concerning actual scripting... It does seem kind of futile to be thrashing at the limitations of RPGmaker, but it actually can make complex things... But with an awful lot of bother. I know C and Java, but I can never bring myself to undertake massive projects with these languages, for some reason. Maybe I'm already way too involved with my RM2K project...



its true, because with the freedom you have, it becomes your head ache if there isa typo on any one line of code. Bug locating can be time consuming, even more so than if you use a more limitted but user friendly game making utility. both have there pros and cons, i can do things in a few minutes that would take days or weeks to code from scratch.
m-productions
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Concerning actual scripting... It does seem kind of futile to be thrashing at the limitations of RPGmaker, but it actually can make complex things... But with an awful lot of bother. I know C and Java, but I can never bring myself to undertake massive projects with these languages, for some reason. Maybe I'm already way too involved with my RM2K project...



its true, because with the freedom you have, it becomes your head ache if there isa typo on any one line of code. Bug locating can be time consuming, even more so than if you use a more limitted but user friendly game making utility. both have there pros and cons, i can do things in a few minutes that would take days or weeks to code from scratch.



Its true.. sometimes free scripting can cause you some errors, but.. as for something that takes you minutes would take days, or weeks? have you ever really scripted before? i serioulsy dought that, ive been able to pull off anything ive made in an RPGmaker or gamermaker rather fast, maybe not as fast, but stilll. rather fast, nowhere near days or weeks. some complex things can be done even faster than they could be in one of those.

(well the battle system in RM2003 I could see taken a nice few hours..... but then again, thats not something you really script.. so this post really goes more towrds gamemaker)
enygmasoft
m-productions wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Concernin$g actual scripting... It does seem kind of futile to be thrashing at the limitations of RPGmaker, but it actually can make complex things... But with an awful lot of bother. I know C and Java, but I can never bring myself to undertake massive projects with these languages, for some reason. Maybe I'm already way too involved with my RM2K project...



its true, because with the freedom you have, it becomes your head ache if there isa typo on any one line of code. Bug locating can be time consuming, even more so than if you use a more limitted but user friendly game making utility. both have there pros and cons, i can do things in a few minutes that would take days or weeks to code from scratch.



Its true.. sometimes free scripting can cause you some errors, but.. as for something that takes you minutes would take days, or weeks? have you ever really scripted before? i serioulsy dought that, ive been able to pull off anything ive made in an RPGmaker or gamermaker rather fast, maybe not as fast, but stilll. rather fast, nowhere near days or weeks. some complex things can be done even faster than they could be in one of those.

(well the battle system in RM2003 I could see taken a nice few hours..... but th$en again, thats not something you really script.. so this post really goes more towrds gamemaker)



I have setup alll of my gamea, very early beta, all scripted using dark basic pro.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
its true, because with the freedom you have, it becomes your head ache if there isa typo on any one line of code. Bug locating can be time consuming, even more so than if you use a more limitted but user friendly game making utility. both have there pros and cons, i can do things in a few minutes that would take days or weeks to code from scratch.


From writing other applications in C, I don't find these types of bugs to be any different from the kind of things I get in RM2K... If you're careful enough to implement one chunk of code at a time, its not really that hard to find errors. As opposed to the RPGmaker series, where the confusing event readout isn't meant to handle advanced sort of operations. For instance, a single line of C involving one or two arrays turns into about 10 RM2K operations...

About switching to scripting, I'm more concerned over start-up time... But that's not too great. I really don't know why I don't at least switch to GameMaker that allows some sort of custom coding. Actually, I don't have any experience at all making anything graphical in C. The most I've made are applications used through command line arguments and the like, and coding a robot really doesn't have much of an interface.
ShawnKelfonne
Well, certainly there's a feeling of accomplishment if you manage to code everything yourself.
My reason for using RMXP as my base engine though, is because there are certain things that I don't need to make if I'm using theirs. This way, I don't need to make my own tile engine, won't need to tie things in with a sound system like fmod, don't need to worry about silly calls to graphics libraries to redraw screens and animate things, and the RGSS scripts underneath allow me to modify the things I DO want to modify, like the battle system, the menu system, and the general look and feel of certain things.

Mainly, RMXP gives me enough freedom to do what I want, without leaving me completely unguided.

I choose it for convenience and simplicity, not because I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.
enygmasoft
ShawnKelfonne wrote:
Well, certainly there's a feeling of accomplishment if you manage to code everything yourself.
My reason for using RMXP as my base engine though, is because there are certain things that I don't need to make if I'm using theirs. This way, I don't need to make my own tile engine, won't need to tie things in with a sound system like fmod, don't need to worry about silly calls to graphics libraries to redraw screens and animate things, and the RGSS scripts underneath allow me to modify the things I DO want to modify, like the battle system, the menu system, and the general look and feel of certain things.

Mainly, RMXP gives me enough freedom to do what I want, without leaving me completely unguided.

I choose it for convenience and simplicity, not because I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.


that certainly makes it so much easier and faster to say the least. Make me question my intention of completing my demo coding the whole thing myself. But once that is done there is the satisfaction of knowing its all me.

but at the rate im progressing thru the coding, it think ill retire before this project gets done.
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:


that certainly makes it so much easier and faster to say the least. Make me question my intention of completing my demo coding the whole thing myself. But once that is done there is the satisfaction of knowing its all me.

but at the rate im progressing thru the coding, it think ill retire before this project gets done.


Don't worry, no matter how long you take to finish it, there's still a high possibility that you'll be done with it before they release Duke Nukem Forever. Wink
catscratches
Mmm, the IMO hardest thing with making games is not to not have the knowledge or anything like that. It's simply going bored with the games and quiting it. Unfortunately, there's not very much to do about it. Sad
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Mmm, the IMO hardest thing with making games is not to not have the knowledge or anything like that. It's simply going bored with the games and quiting it. Unfortunately, there's not very much to do about it. Sad


While this is certainly true, because there are so many things more fun than coding. However, not only are there boredom issues, but also the mindnumbing time graphics can take to make them look halfway decent.
rayx
At first a tried to create game using RPG Maker 2003 but now im creating my own game engine using C++.
catscratches
if you want 3D, Irrlicht is a very good FREE 3D engine (http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net). But perhaps you wanted to create everything yourself...
ShawnKelfonne
enygmasoft wrote:
catscratches wrote:
Mmm, the IMO hardest thing with making games is not to not have the knowledge or anything like that. It's simply going bored with the games and quiting it. Unfortunately, there's not very much to do about it. Sad


While this is certainly true, because there are so many things more fun than coding. However, not only are there boredom issues, but also the mindnumbing time graphics can take to make them look halfway decent.


Both of these are really big reasons why most games never get finished. You really have to love the project you're working on if you plan on finishing it without getting paid to do it. Otherwise, it's just something else sapping your time away, and you'll get bored with it.

Quality graphics are a real pain in the ass to create, and that's why the default tilesets and graphics with the RPGMaker series see so much use.
catscratches
I don't think it's the coding which is boring. That's the funny part. It's graphics, sounds, music and level design.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
I don't think it's the coding which is boring. That's the funny part. It's graphics, sounds, music and level design.


I cant say its boring either, but thats certainly an acquiered taste. However, playing games is always more fun than making them.
catscratches
I don't agree with you at all. Games suck.
ShawnKelfonne
Erm... if you think that games suck, then why would you bother making them?
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
I don't agree with you at all. Games suck.


How can you sy that you can like to make games and not like them.
catscratches
Because of its's the programming that is the fun part. And I like to do applications more, but they're much harder to do.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Because of its's the programming that is the fun part. And I like to do applications more, but they're much harder to do.


Depends on what type of applications you are working on. But programming never gets old. I am extremely thankful for the advent of the function into programming. I dont want to imagine coding withough them.
iNs@nE
Am more into online MMO's ... So basically I end up using C and Delphi for the coding part and for the designs and etc - I go for PS and 3dSMax ....
mrimp
I use Multimedia Fusion. It's quite easy to use as it has a simple grid system to program it and I've recently created a nes-style game that I'll put on my frihost account (when my account is active though)
enygmasoft
mrimp wrote:
I use Multimedia Fusion. It's quite easy to use as it has a simple grid system to program it and I've recently created a nes-style game that I'll put on my frihost account (when my account is active though)


I am not too familiar with Fusion, can you create games similar to gamemaker?
mrimp
I'm not familiar with Gamemaker, I'm afraid. But I guess it must be somewhat similar. Theres a free trial of Multimedia Fusion 2 on http://www.clickteam.com/eng/demo.php
I'd like to know if the two are similar or not, too. I have some experience (due to the fact I've already made a few games) but I would never know how to do programming perfectly.
Boffel
I tested it, and Multimedia Fusion 2 looks very similar to gamemaker. But it looks like Multimedia Fusion 2, export the application`s as java or class file`s. Does it? I could not export it in the free trial, so im not so sure... I dont think I will buy the pro version, because I have so much other things to learn first

Anyway cool program.

By the way, im learning the java language now, and it actually looks like its easier then the gamemaker language. It will be cool when I can rewrite my games from gamemaker to java. Then you can play it in the browser to Wink .

rayx wrote:
At first a tried to create game using RPG Maker 2003 but now im creating my own game engine using C++.

Thats realy cool Very Happy Does it gonna be a freeware? If it is, i would be glad to be a beta tester Very Happy hehe
wombatrpgs
catscratches wrote:
I don't agree with you at all. Games suck.


Now that I've started actually making them, there is truth in that. I've mostly given up playing videogames since now I only see the flaws in them when I actually play.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
catscratches wrote:
I don't agree with you at all. Games suck.


Now that I've started actually making them, there is truth in that. I've mostly given up playing videogames since now I only see the flaws in them when I actually play.


Sad but true. Most games are a waste of time. However, not all of them are look at the zelda series.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Now that I've started actually making them, there is truth in that. I've mostly given up playing videogames since now I only see the flaws in them when I actually play.


Sad but true. Most games are a waste of time. However, not all of them are look at the zelda series.


Actually, the most recent thign I've been playing are the first three Zelda games. Unparalled originality and difficulty. They just HATE me... 254 deaths to beat the original.. Wow. Anyway, I consider Twilight Princess a waste of time. It's more like an afterthought to Ocarina of Time, I don't know why, but I gave up on it after a few days or so and just beat it a week ago, as it was required, really.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Now that I've started actually making them, there is truth in that. I've mostly given up playing videogames since now I only see the flaws in them when I actually play.


Sad but true. Most games are a waste of time. However, not all of them are look at the zelda series.


Actually, the most recent thign I've been playing are the first three Zelda games. Unparalled originality and difficulty. They just HATE me... 254 deaths to beat the original.. Wow. Anyway, I consider Twilight Princess a waste of time. It's more like an afterthought to Ocarina of Time, I don't know why, but I gave up on it after a few days or so and just beat it a week ago, as it was required, really.


In terms of true originality, there has not been a truly original 3D game since Super Mario 64. Every 3D game since has borrowed quite extensively from that game. It terms 2D oriniality, that was morea easier to develop new gameplay expeirences due to the extreme lack of competetion in Nintendo's hey day. By the time the Super Nintendo came out, Those truly innovatuve games were becoming fewer and farther between. Now the only innovation that is still being pushed is all the icing, the graphics, which is only innovation game producers tend to focus on now. Gameplay innovation's had gone the way off the do do. However, I can say that I have great hope in the direction the WII is taking, but at the end of the day the games are what make or break the systems and the WII is still young. Twilight Princess was better than I had hoped but again, I can't help but feel I had done that before in Ocarina of Time.
catscratches
Yeah, Twilight Princess is like Ocarina Of Time but not as good. It's the same thing over and over again. And Windwaker, yeew, traveling (=doing nothing) 80% of the time.

The only innovations I've seen lately is in the indie sector of game developing. On free games.

This far, I, myself, havn't done any really innovative games but I'm planning one. I'll start it after I'm finished with a very non-innovative game that we do to learn C++ and Irrlicht. I can't say anything about it at this stage but it will be something that at least I, myself, havn't seen before =)
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Yeah, Twilight Princess is like Ocarina Of Time but not as good. It's the same thing over and over again. And Windwaker, yeew, traveling (=doing nothing) 80% of the time.

The only innovations I've seen lately is in the indie sector of game developing. On free games.

This far, I, myself, havn't done any really innovative games but I'm planning one. I'll start it after I'm finished with a very non-innovative game that we do to learn C++ and Irrlicht. I can't say anything about it at this stage but it will be something that at least I, myself, havn't seen before =)


Thats right. I had forgotten how much fun windwaker had been with all the sailing. All the joy of a dentist apporntment. Good times.
wombatrpgs
Has anyone noticed most real originality is coming in the form of free games rather than commercial ones? For one thing, they don't need to have fancy graphics or things like that for anyoneone to become adicted to them. Take Ancient Domains of Mystery as an example there... Also, a full length game isn't needed, as no one's going to get mad at not having a full length game available. Shorter games allow for more scenarios. If you look on AddictingGames, most games are completly original.
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Has anyone noticed most real originality is coming in the form of free games rather than commercial ones? For one thing, they don't need to have fancy graphics or things like that for anyoneone to become adicted to them. Take Ancient Domains of Mystery as an example there... Also, a full length game isn't needed, as no one's going to get mad at not having a full length game available. Shorter games allow for more scenarios. If you look on AddictingGames, most games are completly original.


That is very true since low budget games cannot spend too much on eye candy, they can focus on getting creative with the graphics they can do.
LostOverThere
wombatrpgs wrote:
Has anyone noticed most real originality is coming in the form of free games rather than commercial ones? For one thing, they don't need to have fancy graphics or things like that for anyoneone to become adicted to them. Take Ancient Domains of Mystery as an example there... Also, a full length game isn't needed, as no one's going to get mad at not having a full length game available. Shorter games allow for more scenarios. If you look on AddictingGames, most games are completly original.


Yes, in my opinion this is because Indie developers have nothing to lose. They make games for the sake of making them, Indie Developers don't have Millions of Dollars at stake. Commercial company's aren't interested in making a fun game, just making lots of money. They'll stick to one format that works, and milk it for all its worth.
enygmasoft
LostOverThere wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Has anyone noticed most real originality is coming in the form of free games rather than commercial ones? For one thing, they don't need to have fancy graphics or things like that for anyoneone to become adicted to them. Take Ancient Domains of Mystery as an example there... Also, a full length game isn't needed, as no one's going to get mad at not having a full length game available. Shorter games allow for more scenarios. If you look on AddictingGames, most games are completly original.


Yes, in my opinion this is because Indie developers have nothing to lose. They make games for the sake of making them, Indie Developers don't have Millions of Dollars at stake. Commercial company's aren't interested in making a fun game, just making lots of money. They'll stick to one format that works, and milk it for all its worth.


I can't argue with that when you cosider the number of Mega Man games there are out available now as well.
Yjaxygames
LostOverThere wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Has anyone noticed most real originality is coming in the form of free games rather than commercial ones? For one thing, they don't need to have fancy graphics or things like that for anyoneone to become adicted to them. Take Ancient Domains of Mystery as an example there... Also, a full length game isn't needed, as no one's going to get mad at not having a full length game available. Shorter games allow for more scenarios. If you look on AddictingGames, most games are completly original.


Yes, in my opinion this is because Indie developers have nothing to lose. They make games for the sake of making them, Indie Developers don't have Millions of Dollars at stake. Commercial company's aren't interested in making a fun game, just making lots of money. They'll stick to one format that works, and milk it for all its worth.


That's true, but the GTA type of game is getting really milked out by clones like Saints Row. But what if, A revolutionized GTA comes out, like GTA4...then you can't say they milk out a game. Of course it's money making, but that's what the developers and publishers want. Money. The people who work there also need food...And how can you earn the most? By making the best game on the market. If people don't buy games that are almost the same as the previous ones, developers won't make those anymore. It's like evolution Razz
withalligators
Howdy,
Can anyone care to do a decent comparison of the pros and cons of these two programs? I have been planning and drawing out a sidescrolling 2D game for a year or so now. Some features I am looking for are parrallax scrolling, long levels, the ability to not use tiled backgrounds (ie one large bitmap file per level maybe), multiple level exits, adventure game components, ie use items at certain places to accomplish special events, experience, combos attacks, the ability to equip different weapons that have both different appearences on the character and different looking attacks, and the ability to equip different outfits and appear differently. Like for instance the character finds a red coat, and puts it on. can i show him in a red coat with out changing the rest of his outfit. Think newer castlevania in terms of the character programming and maybe original bionic commando in terms of level layout. But either way, I've been trying to find a good comparison of the two somewhere and can't. So if anyone's used both, a comparison would be slamming
catscratches
I havn't been using Multimedia Fusion 2 but I'm using Game Maker6.1 Registered and the things you say are possible in it. But you can forget about making that as your first game, no matter what program you choose. Maybe as tenth if you learn really really quick.
enygmasoft
withalligators wrote:
Howdy,
Can anyone care to do a decent comparison of the pros and cons of these two programs? I have been planning and drawing out a sidescrolling 2D game for a year or so now. Some features I am looking for are parrallax scrolling, long levels, the ability to not use tiled backgrounds (ie one large bitmap file per level maybe), multiple level exits, adventure game components, ie use items at certain places to accomplish special events, experience, combos attacks, the ability to equip different weapons that have both different appearences on the character and different looking attacks, and the ability to equip different outfits and appear differently. Like for instance the character finds a red coat, and puts it on. can i show him in a red coat with out changing the rest of his outfit. Think newer castlevania in terms of the character programming and maybe original bionic commando in terms of level layout. But either way, I've been trying to find a good comparison of the two somewhere and can't. So if anyone's used both, a comparison would be slamming


Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with either of these game makig tools. However this is useful advice regardless of what program you decide to get. As the old saying goes, "Don't bite off more than you can chew." If this is your first game, I would suggest you break it all up into separate chunks and add every feature accordingly. You might even want to create feature focus demos, so you know what effeect you want to create and how to accomplish it. Never underestimate the power of planning. Give different priorities to your project and have at it.
withalligators
Enygmasoft,
That was my plan. I figured out how to do some of these things via gamemaker and online tutorials. But yes, I was going to start from the ground up figuring out things as i could, then asking for help, then tackiling the tougher stuff. thanks though
LostOverThere
Hey, I'm interested in taking a look at C++. Could anyone recommend a good place to start?

Thanks,
-LostOverThere
wombatrpgs
I know I learned C from a distance course through EPGY, that was very effective. I'd start with getting a decent compiler, really. And maybe one of those countless Learn Programming Language books. They're actually quite helpful.

And now the inevitable's happened. I've pretty much stalled all progress on my game, now left at beta 1.6. Great. The reason? Ancient Domains of Mystery. It seems to me this is the best RPG I've ever seen. It's quite neat. Has anyone made a rogue-like here? I'm actually considerring making one in C now, if I get the chance.

However, I might have to postpone all videogame activities for a while... I have a research project, going to try and use swarm logic to optimize an infinite network...
Yjaxygames
LostOverThere wrote:
Hey, I'm interested in taking a look at C++. Could anyone recommend a good place to start?

Thanks,
-LostOverThere


Could be interesting:P Please finish pivot first before making a game in C++ Razz Razz
spinanicky
I did a bit with java but it was kinda rubbish. Learnt in school and the teachers werent to great so we didnt learn that much... now im into php and doing a load with that.... not games though haha.

Quite an interesting thread though... I didnt know half the languages in the pole Very Happy
Yjaxygames
spinanicky wrote:
I did a bit with java but it was kinda rubbish. Learnt in school and the teachers werent to great so we didnt learn that much... now im into php and doing a load with that.... not games though haha.

Quite an interesting thread though... I didnt know half the languages in the pole Very Happy


Me neither.
It's a waste of time if you don't have good teachers. I have pretty good teachers, I'm learning HTML now:P And maybe I'll also learn the GameMakerLanguage.
enygmasoft
Yjaxygames wrote:
spinanicky wrote:
I did a bit with java but it was kinda rubbish. Learnt in school and the teachers werent to great so we didnt learn that much... now im into php and doing a load with that.... not games though haha.

Quite an interesting thread though... I didnt know half the languages in the pole Very Happy


Me neither.
It's a waste of time if you don't have good teachers. I have pretty good teachers, I'm learning HTML now:P And maybe I'll also learn the GameMakerLanguage.


Thats all certainly true. Bad teachers make for bad educational experiences.
mrimp
my school hardly teaches any good IT. its just graphs and spreadsheets... So boring
catscratches
Have anyone here used the engine Ogre3D? Advantages? Disadvantages? Do you know any other free 3D Engines for C++?

I've used Irrlicht before but Ogre3D seems better =)

http://www.ogre3d.org
wombatrpgs
mrimp wrote:
my school hardly teaches any good IT. its just graphs and spreadsheets... So boring


Same. The real joke in my area is that the kids are better at theis crap than the teachers. For some reason these courses are required... Can you believe my school offers a course in learning to use the iLife suite by Apple? I think there's maybe one computer science course in the whole myriad of consumer computer classes, and it teaches basic C and HTML. And the teacher sucks.

Anyways, everyone here appears to be getting really technical again... Appreciated, but somewhat dry.
I was wondering what games had inspired people to start actually programming new videogames? Even if the games nowadays are a piece of crap, at some point there must have been some inspiration. Or somehow you've managed to produce art you don't appreciate...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
mrimp wrote:
my school hardly teaches any good IT. its just graphs and spreadsheets... So boring


Same. The real joke in my area is that the kids are better at theis crap than the teachers. For some reason these courses are required... Can you believe my school offers a course in learning to use the iLife suite by Apple? I think there's maybe one computer science course in the whole myriad of consumer computer classes, and it teaches basic C and HTML. And the teacher sucks.

Anyways, everyone here appears to be getting really technical again... Appreciated, but somewhat dry.
I was wondering what games had inspired people to start actually programming new videogames? Even if the games nowadays are a piece of crap, at some point there must have been some inspiration. Or somehow you've managed to produce art you don't appreciate...


It a sad fact that most high schools do not have appropirate computer classes in regards to IT in general. My school had a less than stellar computer class running archaich computers that were old the day I was born. Donations of smazingly old, almost museum worth computer lab collection.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
It a sad fact that most high schools do not have appropirate computer classes in regards to IT in general. My school had a less than stellar computer class running archaich computers that were old the day I was born. Donations of smazingly old, almost museum worth computer lab collection.


My district built a multi-million dollar high school, bought about 200 iMacs, then started having budget problems due to a large number of old cranky tax payers / voters who really just prefered voting to taxing. Ah well. Not much to program with on a Mac. Remember the commercial where the PC and Mac exchange gifts? I believe Mac gives PC a photo album. Wow. I really needed a home photo album. That's really useful. PC gives Mac a C++ GUI guide. Now THAT's something I want. And Mac can't do anything with it.
Oh, and that iLife course, (called Multimedia or some other bs), is prerequisite for the lone 'intro to computer science' course.
lucron
Macs are meant to be used without knowledge of computers, even states that on their website. Kind of silly to buy something so simple and fool proof to learn from. I have nothing against Macs, but I do disagree with the way they are forcing people to buy a system from Apple to use their OS and software. If they would remove the restriction which would allow OSX to be installed on PCs (Macs are using PC hardware now) then there would actually be more people using OSX, less people whining about Windows crashing (because they're computer illiterate) and a better "community" which is what Mac is supposedly all about.

I'm kind of sick of the way they are putting down PCs, they only do it because the majority of them have a Windows operating system installed, and that's obviously their competition - but saying PCs have 100,000 viruses is too stupid for me to even try the new OSX out, because Macs use PC hardware, OSX uses the BSD core which was made on PC hardware and it still works on PCs. How they can say PCs in general have hundreds of thousands of viruses - which is so far from the truth - and utilize the PC technology at the same time is beyond me.

That's enough of my rant. Back on topic, I'm a developer for a Quake 3 modification, been doing it for almost a year now. I've messed around with Allegro and C++, but never made any games, I've failed twice in Allegro, just gave up on them.

I know a lot of C already, so it should be an easy transition to C++, changing my coding style will probably be the biggest obstacle. I have a book on Visual C++ (by Peter Norton) which I'm going to finish after other projects are completed, though it probably won't help much with game programming so I was wondering if anybody could direct me to any game programming books or tutorials. OpenGL is what I would like to use in the future, so introductory books for that would be great!
enygmasoft
lucron wrote:
Macs are meant to be used without knowledge of computers, even states that on their website. Kind of silly to buy something so simple and fool proof to learn from. I have nothing against Macs, but I do disagree with the way they are forcing people to buy a system from Apple to use their OS and software. If they would remove the restriction which would allow OSX to be installed on PCs (Macs are using PC hardware now) then there would actually be more people using OSX, less people whining about Windows crashing (because they're computer illiterate) and a better "community" which is what Mac is supposedly all about.

I'm kind of sick of the way they are putting down PCs, they only do it because the majority of them have a Windows operating system installed, and that's obviously their competition - but saying PCs have 100,000 viruses is too stupid for me to even try the new OSX out, because Macs use PC hardware, OSX uses the BSD core which was made on PC hardware and it still works on PCs. How they can say PCs in general have hundreds of thousands of viruses - which is so far from the truth - and utilize the PC technology at the same time is beyond me.

That's enough of my rant. Back on topic, I'm a developer for a Quake 3 modification, been doing it for almost a year now. I've messed around with Allegro and C++, but never made any games, I've failed twice in Allegro, just gave up on them.

I know a lot of C already, so it should be an easy transition to C++, changing my coding style will probably be the biggest obstacle. I have a book on Visual C++ (by Peter Norton) which I'm going to finish after other projects are completed, though it probably won't help much with game programming so I was wondering if anybody could direct me to any game programming books or tutorials. OpenGL is what I would like to use in the future, so introductory books for that would be great!


Unfortunately, I am a direct X user, which is integrated into my Dark Basic Professional, which makes my coding life so much easier due to its simpler syntax than most other programming languages. This programming language includes Direct X 9 and there is a direct X 10 version hope fully around the corner. My familiarity is extremely limited with Open GL.
Loghete
I've just started a little on 3D mapping. I'm using GtkRadiant to make maps for Tremulous, but so far I've only made one map, which sucks. Well I'll eventually get better.

Anyway, making maps could also be seen as game making, only that you don't make the whole engine from the scratch again.
enygmasoft
Loghete wrote:
I've just started a little on 3D mapping. I'm using GtkRadiant to make maps for Tremulous, but so far I've only made one map, which sucks. Well I'll eventually get better.

Anyway, making maps could also be seen as game making, only that you don't make the whole engine from the scratch again.


That's always true, which makes for much quicker game development. The real down side comes in the fact that if you want to add any features to the game's engine, you are pretty much screwed since you don't have source code access to add the functionality you need. It becomes a balancing act between freedom and speed at which you get the game done. Programming from scratch has its advantages which allows you do anything your imagination can conceive. However, programming is by no means as simple as pointing and clicking any game making utilities that are out there to make the job easier.
Boffel
I have found out that making my own game is too much job, so now joined a team thats making a gamemaker mmorpg called "the warriors path" (look in my sig). Before I though it was easier to do it my self, because then I got controll over everything. Now I actually like to work with others, because we get much faster done with things, and people can work with things they like most.

The warriors path also got the best 3d graphics ever with gamemaker, so I think we can make bether games together as a team instead of just one person doing everything.

But what do you like? Do you like to work with others, or do you make games and other stuff bether alone?
catscratches
I like to do it with 2-3 people so that I can focus on extreme blood-systems and multiplayer, not the graphics. If you want 3D-graphics, then don't use GM, it sucks.
wombatrpgs
Keep in mind most people will try and form teams to fill in resource gaps... For example, to get graphics if the main designer isn't really an artist. Then again, I guess everyone wants to be in charge, which is why you end up with cooperative design teams instead. Not sure about that one though...
catscratches
I have to say that I don't agree with you. I'd rather do what I'm told to than have to use my imagination Razz (I actually have a pretty good imagination but I just don't like to need to think =P).
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Keep in mind most people will try and form teams to fill in resource gaps... For example, to get graphics if the main designer isn't really an artist. Then again, I guess everyone wants to be in charge, which is why you end up with cooperative design teams instead. Not sure about that one though...


I can certainly see the benefits of teams but I like the idea of doing it all by myself. Its a bit of a weekend killer, which means I have complete freedom to do whatever I like. However, teams do make for a far more minds to work on your project, which typically improves the outcome because you do get great ideas that would have never crossed your mind. But unfortunatly, great minds do not come for free, the last time I checked. Cooperative design teams allow for every one to partake in different parts of the project, which is necessary in small scale projects, when you have very small group of people at your disposal. However, I can see the benefits of specializing in only one aspect of the overall project, which forces you to focus on one specific aspect of the grand game design. I think this works wonderfully, for instance if you focus on one specific area, say 3D modeling, you can only get better and faster with that skill set due to simple practice. Now if you have far more resposibilities on your mind your mind has more to deal with, which may make the game suffer.
Boffel
catscratches wrote:
I like to do it with 2-3 people so that I can focus on extreme blood-systems and multiplayer, not the graphics. If you want 3D-graphics, then don't use GM, it sucks.


I also like to do it with 2-3 peoples, or 3-5... Now we are 4 peoples that create the gm mmorpg called the warriors path. I think the graphics and gameplay is important, and we got both. It is multiplayer, but doesnt got extreme blood-system because kids also gonna play it.

About the gm graphics...

You get as good graphics you want, if you know how to do it. Just look at our game screenshots here: http://screenshots.warriors-path.net/press_release/

By the way, the character will not be like that... Here is how the characters gonna be: http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1355/charactervp9.png

We also made a press release video, that you can download here: http://download.warriors-path.uni.cc/TWP_Press_Vid1.wmv

So gm graphics can be really good!
Mememe
After fully learning PHP, I'll try C++, and maybe Java. They seem good. And I've been using GM by Mark Ovemars for some time now. Wink
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Keep in mind most people will try and form teams to fill in resource gaps... For example, to get graphics if the main designer isn't really an artist. Then again, I guess everyone wants to be in charge, which is why you end up with cooperative design teams instead. Not sure about that one though...


I can certainly see the benefits of teams but I like the idea of doing it all by myself. Its a bit of a weekend killer, which means I have complete freedom to do whatever I like. However, teams do make for a far more minds to work on your project, which typically improves the outcome because you do get great ideas that would have never crossed your mind. But unfortunatly, great minds do not come for free, the last time I checked. Cooperative design teams allow for every one to partake in different parts of the project, which is necessary in small scale projects, when you have very small group of people at your disposal. However, I can see the benefits of specializing in only one aspect of the overall project, which forces you to focus on one specific aspect of the grand game design. I think this works wonderfully, for instance if you focus on one specific area, say 3D modeling, you can only get better and faster with that skill set due to simple practice. Now if you have far more resposibilities on your mind your mind has more to deal with, which may make the game suffer.


Usually what I've been running so far, (Team Olympus mainly,) is doing everything myself with something like RPGmaker, as to allow one person to undertake a task like that, and then using other people as sounding boards for ideas and such, and I've been able to find plenty of beta testers. It's working pretty well, but the game's not on a grand scale, and I'd be impressed in anywhere above a hundred people ever played it. Really impressed.

Regarding team sizes... 2-3 people I'd think would be best. You're small enough to be robust and assign tasks on the fly, there really isn't a need for specific specializations, as everyone should be fairly competent at everything. Any more than four, and you're going to need task management, as in a music person, graphics person, etc until you're down to a manageable design chunk. That's the nice part about working with small groups and teams: less work, but you still get to do everything.

Although there are some exceptions... Somehow Thomas Biskup managed to make everything of ADOM of which the source is ~15 MB. Imagine coding that much on one project...
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
Keep in mind most people will try and form teams to fill in resource gaps... For example, to get graphics if the main designer isn't really an artist. Then again, I guess everyone wants to be in charge, which is why you end up with cooperative design teams instead. Not sure about that one though...


You can honestly say you have so much easier than me simply because I had to fall in love with 3D
when I envisions my game, which means I have to go thru more of a headache graphics wise, because with Dark Basic the only limitation becomes Direct X 9, which not limiting in any wasy to a one man development company. Cooperation is always great, but If I win the lottery, I'd use the money to make my project a reality.

I can certainly see the benefits of teams but I like the idea of doing it all by myself. Its a bit of a weekend killer, which means I have complete freedom to do whatever I like. However, teams do make for a far more minds to work on your project, which typically improves the outcome because you do get great ideas that would have never crossed your mind. But unfortunatly, great minds do not come for free, the last time I checked. Cooperative design teams allow for every one to partake in different parts of the project, which is necessary in small scale projects, when you have very small group of people at your disposal. However, I can see the benefits of specializing in only one aspect of the overall project, which forces you to focus on one specific aspect of the grand game design. I think this works wonderfully, for instance if you focus on one specific area, say 3D modeling, you can only get better and faster with that skill set due to simple practice. Now if you have far more resposibilities on your mind your mind has more to deal with, which may make the game suffer.


Usually what I've been running so far, (Team Olympus mainly,) is doing everything myself with something like RPGmaker, as to allow one person to undertake a task like that, and then using other people as sounding boards for ideas and such, and I've been able to find plenty of beta testers. It's working pretty well, but the game's not on a grand scale, and I'd be impressed in anywhere above a hundred people ever played it. Really impressed.

Regarding team sizes... 2-3 people I'd think would be best. You're small enough to be robust and assign tasks on the fly, there really isn't a need for specific specializations, as everyone should be fairly competent at everything. Any more than four, and you're going to need task management, as in a music person, graphics person, etc until you're down to a manageable design chunk. That's the nice part about working with small groups and teams: less work, but you still get to do everything.

Although there are some exceptions... Somehow Thomas Biskup managed to make everything of ADOM of which the source is ~15 MB. Imagine coding that much on one project...


There is a great deal of work for me, considering that I have a 3D imaginations so I have Dark Basic Professional, which uses Direct X 9 as a bottleneck, which really has none for me. You on the other hand are usign a far more simple design by using the game maker. You will get done long before me.

Thats exactly what I meant by game suffer, because unfortuanately there no grand budget to get the idea off the ground so it will always be incomplete. There is so much to get done I think ill be dead before its complete. There is an so many great ideas in my head, but the biggest problem becomes how dauting my vision is. For example, there is a massive amount of time requiered to do any specific task right, For instance hero modeling to do the character real justice pros can indulge themselves in 18 months on this one task. My game has 13 characters, multiply by 18 months per charater, and this is just one part of my task. Take into account how many of these tasks there are and you begin to feel overwhelmed. I haved plans to get some new modeling goodies to make my life easier, but I Currently am broke for christmas.
Boffel
Mememe wrote:
After fully learning PHP, I'll try C++, and maybe Java. They seem good. And I've been using GM by Mark Ovemars for some time now. Wink


Nice, I have also tryed java, but took too long time to learn. I will still use gamemaker for some years. Now its also beeing re-made, so you can save your games for mac and as c++. Thats really good, because c++ is 10 times faster.

Btw:

Our game, named "the warriors path" (A 3d mmorpg made with gamemaker.) is released now! It got the best 3D graphics ever made with gamemaker, and it runs without lagg on my computer. (On very old computers it want work or be very laggy...)

you all should test it, its a really cool game. (Not much to do yet, but you can chat and look around in the fantastic world.

I am the modeler, animator and texturer for the game. So visit www.warriors-path.net
catscratches
C++ is more usefull than Java but can be a pain to learn. Java, you learn in two weeks or something. C++ is harder but is worth the effort.
jabapyth
Gamemaker is fine, but what I really like it Python+Pygame. The power of sdl and the ease of python.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
There is a great deal of work for me, considering that I have a 3D imaginations so I have Dark Basic Professional, which uses Direct X 9 as a bottleneck, which really has none for me. You on the other hand are usign a far more simple design by using the game maker. You will get done long before me.

Thats exactly what I meant by game suffer, because unfortuanately there no grand budget to get the idea off the ground so it will always be incomplete. There is so much to get done I think ill be dead before its complete. There is an so many great ideas in my head, but the biggest problem becomes how dauting my vision is. For example, there is a massive amount of time requiered to do any specific task right, For instance hero modeling to do the character real justice pros can indulge themselves in 18 months on this one task. My game has 13 characters, multiply by 18 months per charater, and this is just one part of my task. Take into account how many of these tasks there are and you begin to feel overwhelmed. I haved plans to get some new modeling goodies to make my life easier, but I Currently am broke for christmas.


The only reason I'm using the RPGmaker is to have a conceivable end date to the project, as I'm not using any team. I'd think that pure scripting would be best having a team, once again, due to time constraints. I'm sure just plain coding wouldn't amount to the same grand timescale, (as 3D graphics eat up huge amounts of man time), which is why it might be simpler to split for larger projects. If, like me, you don't really care about graphics, you could either use a maker with default graphics or just make simple sprites yourself. Still, about time this game is taking me... I'm predicting I won't be done as soon as you think; this project's about two years in the making right now, and I'm still adding. These sorts of things either die after a couple months, or use teams. Although any teamless person who completes a quality game had a lot more fun doing it than the team did, and I guess that's the whole point.



Completely unrelated: I'm trying to put together some sort of plot development guide at the moment; if anyone has any pointers or critiscisms, I'm interested to hear. To avoid posting a wall of text:
http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21046
Any ideas there?
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
There is a great deal of work for me, considering that I have a 3D imaginations so I have Dark Basic Professional, which uses Direct X 9 as a bottleneck, which really has none for me. You on the other hand are usign a far more simple design by using the game maker. You will get done long before me.

Thats exactly what I meant by game suffer, because unfortuanately there no grand budget to get the idea off the ground so it will always be incomplete. There is so much to get done I think ill be dead before its complete. There is an so many great ideas in my head, but the biggest problem becomes how dauting my vision is. For example, there is a massive amount of time requiered to do any specific task right, For instance hero modeling to do the character real justice pros can indulge themselves in 18 months on this one task. My game has 13 characters, multiply by 18 months per charater, and this is just one part of my task. Take into account how many of these tasks there are and you begin to feel overwhelmed. I haved plans to get some new modeling goodies to make my life easier, but I Currently am broke for christmas.


The only reason I'm using the RPGmaker is to have a conceivable end date to the project, as I'm not using any team. I'd think that pure scripting would be best having a team, once again, due to time constraints. I'm sure just plain coding wouldn't amount to the same grand timescale, (as 3D graphics eat up huge amounts of man time), which is why it might be simpler to split for larger projects. If, like me, you don't really care about graphics, you could either use a maker with default graphics or just make simple sprites yourself. Still, about time this game is taking me... I'm predicting I won't be done as soon as you think; this project's about two years in the making right now, and I'm still adding. These sorts of things either die after a couple months, or use teams. Although any teamless person who completes a quality game had a lot more fun doing it than the team did, and I guess that's the whole point.


Completely unrelated: I'm trying to put together some sort of plot development guide at the moment; if anyone has any pointers or critiscisms, I'm interested to hear. To avoid posting a wall of text:
http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21046
Any ideas there?


The power of joy in terms of being able to say everything is done by me is very fun. All the things I have done and learned to get this far. I have a very strange penchant for learning. So Once I learn a skill I don't want to do it any more unless im learning. I have an interesting idea should put a big gap in my development time. To acquire he FPS maker to make my game development time easier.
There is a gap in the finance issue and this just about to come out this month.
Legolas710
Everyone here seems to use Game Maker...

But I don't mind as I am not bad with it myself. I have been using it since 2002...

Other languages are way more effecient though. YoYo Games is in the process of making Game Maker work on Mac. In fact, you can see a screenshot at http://glog.yoyogames.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2007/11/latest-maker-build.jpg.

It looks good right now! I'm hoping that they will also fix some speed issues.
enygmasoft
Legolas710 wrote:
Everyone here seems to use Game Maker...

But I don't mind as I am not bad with it myself. I have been using it since 2002...

Other languages are way more effecient though. YoYo Games is in the process of making Game Maker work on Mac. In fact, you can see a screenshot at http://glog.yoyogames.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2007/11/latest-maker-build.jpg.

It looks good right now! I'm hoping that they will also fix some speed issues.


This great to add an far easier way to create games for mac, which I have used like 5 times my entire life. UCI labs were the biggest Mac users that I had ever come across, since all the open labs had access to Macs. I have always been more of PC guy, since the Virulent Windows 95. Good times.
Boffel
enygmasoft wrote:
Legolas710 wrote:
Everyone here seems to use Game Maker...

But I don't mind as I am not bad with it myself. I have been using it since 2002...

Other languages are way more effecient though. YoYo Games is in the process of making Game Maker work on Mac. In fact, you can see a screenshot at http://glog.yoyogames.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2007/11/latest-maker-build.jpg.

It looks good right now! I'm hoping that they will also fix some speed issues.


This great to add an far easier way to create games for mac, which I have used like 5 times my entire life. UCI labs were the biggest Mac users that I had ever come across, since all the open labs had access to Macs. I have always been more of PC guy, since the Virulent Windows 95. Good times.


I also like that they making a mac version, because then I can work with it on school. The only bad thing, is that I think you have to install it in the "programs" folder, and only the school admin has access there, and he will not install anything...

But I have also always been a windows guy too, because it is so much programs and games mac cant run without emulators.
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
enygmasoft wrote:
Legolas710 wrote:
Everyone here seems to use Game Maker...

But I don't mind as I am not bad with it myself. I have been using it since 2002...

Other languages are way more effecient though. YoYo Games is in the process of making Game Maker work on Mac. In fact, you can see a screenshot at http://glog.yoyogames.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2007/11/latest-maker-build.jpg.

It looks good right now! I'm hoping that they will also fix some speed issues.


This great to add an far easier way to create games for mac, which I have used like 5 times my entire life. UCI labs were the biggest Mac users that I had ever come across, since all the open labs had access to Macs. I have always been more of PC guy, since the Virulent Windows 95. Good times.


I also like that they making a mac version, because then I can work with it on school. The only bad thing, is that I think you have to install it in the "programs" folder, and only the school admin has access there, and he will not install anything...

But I have also always been a windows guy too, because it is so much programs and games mac cant run without emulators.


Sad but true. Windows emulation is a big part of working on a macintosh, specially with all of the programs that i usee designed for windows. Which really defeats the purpose, at least for me, of usinc macs. Emulation is a waste of CPU resources in my book, when I can use a PC. My experience with them is purely educational, since for whatever reason every school in the world it seams, is pushing macs. Yet I have spent 2 hours in my whole professional life working on Mac related issues.
wombatrpgs
enygmasoft wrote:
Boffel wrote:

I also like that they making a mac version, because then I can work with it on school. The only bad thing, is that I think you have to install it in the "programs" folder, and only the school admin has access there, and he will not install anything...

But I have also always been a windows guy too, because it is so much programs and games mac cant run without emulators.


Sad but true. Windows emulation is a big part of working on a macintosh, specially with all of the programs that i usee designed for windows. Which really defeats the purpose, at least for me, of usinc macs. Emulation is a waste of CPU resources in my book, when I can use a PC. My experience with them is purely educational, since for whatever reason every school in the world it seams, is pushing macs. Yet I have spent 2 hours in my whole professional life working on Mac related issues.


That's the thing with Macs, yes... Although they may be technically superior, (arguable), you can't get around the fact that software is much more limited. Which is actually a pro for schools. A Mac is less change-able, so it makes it harder for users to screw around with. And also Macs are a lot more stable, if a lot less useful, which would really help the tech department. (And after all, they're the ones making the purchase...)
Vladalf
Hello game makers! I've recently released one of my projects, Project OPAL. Go check it out at www.aninoasaproductions.frih.net . Very Happy I'm waiting for some comments.
It's made in GM and I and a friend have been working at it since the summer holidays started.
Have fun!
enygmasoft
Vladalf wrote:
Hello game makers! I've recently released one of my projects, Project OPAL. Go check it out at www.aninoasaproductions.frih.net . Very Happy I'm waiting for some comments.
It's made in GM and I and a friend have been working at it since the summer holidays started.
Have fun!


Interesting game, did you code it from scratch or use some sort of Game creation software to create your game? Were all the graphics done by your team?
catscratches
As he said he used GM, which stands for Game Maker and is game creation software for Windows platforms only.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
As he said he used GM, which stands for Game Maker and is game creation software for Windows platforms only.


Good point. I think I ran out of coffee before reading that. Interesting how useless the last post was. Are planning on poriting to the MAC. I would suggest you do that.
catscratches
What? You suggest that I should port Gm to Mac or what? =P (I'm feeling stupid right now =P )
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
What? You suggest that I should port Gm to Mac or what? =P (I'm feeling stupid right now =P )


I'm personally not a game maker user. However, I was under the impression that game make is supposed to be making a macitosh friendly version. I would not quote me.
Boffel
Now you can get the result of the winners in winter competition at www.yoyogames.com

Did you like the winners games? I liked them alot, but I think 1st place was to childish. But that doesn't need to be a bad thing.

The graphics and the way they coded the games was amazing, and I guess they used long time on it.

What do you think about the games?
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Now you can get the result of the winners in winter competition at www.yoyogames.com

Did you like the winners games? I liked them alot, but I think 1st place was to childish. But that doesn't need to be a bad thing.

The graphics and the way they coded the games was amazing, and I guess they used long time on it.

What do you think about the games?


I tried to play the game, but had an error on my webbrowser installing it. It does look very interesting.
Loghete
Well, I thought the winner was pretty good but I would have liked seeing Vertigo Games' A Winter Solitice winning, since I've supported them for a long time.
At least it got a Honourable Mention.
Boffel
enygmasoft wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Now you can get the result of the winners in winter competition at www.yoyogames.com

Did you like the winners games? I liked them alot, but I think 1st place was to childish. But that doesn't need to be a bad thing.

The graphics and the way they coded the games was amazing, and I guess they used long time on it.

What do you think about the games?


I tried to play the game, but had an error on my webbrowser installing it. It does look very interesting.


You can still download the game instead of play it in the browser, but only windows supported.

Loghete: Yeah, I liked A Winter Solitice game too, but it was up to Mark Overmars to choose the winners. Wink
enygmasoft
I will try it again that way to see if I have better luck, using it in that manner. Online games have come a long way.
catscratches
It's actually not online games. You install a plug-in made by YYG. What it does is to download the game temporary and run it (as an .exe). This means that anyone could make a virus and you'd download it without warnign =) Woppiee!!
Game_Maker_User
I'm sorry, but hands down Game Maker is the best for people who have no coding experience at all. Its user friendly drag and drop interface rocks! If you want more advanced stuff you can use GML for almost anything. Although the games produced may not be as secure or versatile as those made in a real scripting language, it still a great program for making games.
enygmasoft
That is typically the best way to spread viruses is thru online games. No one even thinks twice about them as long as the game works like it should. These would all be considered trojans. Make for amazing access to any computer for evil kiddie scripts. These goodies are not too difficult to set up. I go out of my way to scan everything before running it. Unforutanately, online games that run in a browser are hard to scan.
catscratches
Well, Java Applets and Flash is restricted so they can't damage your computer since they aren't allowed to do much (which also is the weak point about them). With GM games online, it's a completely other thing, though! They are .exes! YYG's app just hides it...
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Well, Java Applets and Flash is restricted so they can't damage your computer since they aren't allowed to do much (which also is the weak point about them). With GM games online, it's a completely other thing, though! They are .exes! YYG's0 app just hides it...


That the sad truth of the matter. You have so much more restriction using flash or Java Applets, that is both a blessing and a curse. Most online games use exes that can be very easily used the wrong way.
wombatrpgs
Alright, posting something non-technical for once...

I finally rigged up a support system for my RPG, pretty basic, each of fifteen characters has three conversations about pretty much anything with two to five other characters. The two characters then recieve stat boosts when used in the same party. If you've played Fire Emblem, it's alost a direct rip of FE9. Definitely not FE10's tofu text. Everything is working well, and I attached a nice GUI to it. Very pretty

Now comes the task of writing 75-odd conversations, each suposedly taking a full minute to read. I'm not so much concerned with the volume of the work as much as the content. What exactly does anyone think I should stick in here? On one hand, these were supposed to be one source of humor, which is too sparce throughout the game. However, the characters are slightly underdeveloped and need much rounding out. Almost none of them have any real backstory. At the same time, I run the risk of sounding contrived. I can't exactly have every conversation be heart-rending, can I? Any ideas on how to strike a balance? What would you want from this type of system?
enygmasoft
wombatrpgs wrote:
Alright, posting something non-technical for once...

I finally rigged up a support system for my RPG, pretty basic, each of fifteen characters has three conversations about pretty much anything with two to five other characters. The two characters then recieve stat boosts when used in the same party. If you've played Fire Emblem, it's alost a direct rip of FE9. Definitely not FE10's tofu text. Everything is working well, and I attached a nice GUI to it. Very pretty

Now comes the task of writing 75-odd conversations, each suposedly taking a full minute to read. I'm not so much concerned with the volume of the work as much as the content. What exactly does anyone think I should stick in here? On one hand, these were supposed to be one source of humor, which is too sparce throughout the game. However, the characters are slightly underdeveloped and need much rounding out. Almost none of them have any real backstory. At the same time, I run the risk of sounding contrived. I can't exactly have every conversation be heart-rending, can I? Any ideas on how to strike a balance? What would you want from this type of system?


That is very good question indeed. In terms of balacing those, There lies the challange, because have every word said be inspiring, because it gets to frilly to become believable.On the other side there is are scipts that have may I have a double, with fries. I think the most important factor is relevance and not to much in striking a balance. Relevance means that there are times when you need to simply "Pass the salt." For instance if the story takes place at the dinner table. Additionally, there are times when you can fill in more deeply interwinding discourse, when time is right.
atilao
Why is Python (pygame) recommended for experienced programmers, and C++ is not? I find pygame a lot easier than C++. By the way, for nice GUI games I prefer Qt4 (PyQt4 for Python).
I'm not writing games, I like to write tools for games. I have a Firefox extension for MapleStory, if anyone plays it, you might want to check it out. The newest version can be found on my blog, http://mstools.blogspot.com.
catscratches
C++ is not recommended? You mean the opposite or what?

Anyways, Pyton may be easier, but it isn't even near the flexibility that C++ offers.
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
C++ is not recommended? You mean the opposite or what?

Anyways, Pyton may be easier, but it isn't even near the flexibility that C++ offers.


No argument there. C++ rules because there no program that you cant do using this.
Boffel
Ok guys, I updated the first post to make this topic more usefull, now pm me to add stuff Very Happy
orrvaa
i use Game Maker
Boffel
orrvaa wrote:
i use Game Maker


Thats cool, have you made any cool games you want to be added to the list?

And if you have sounds for your game/'s, where did you get it?

We need more resources! Very Happy
wombatrpgs
I've been using the RM series' RTP sound effects for some time. There's a variety, and they suit my needs. Do you want the folder...? I considered PMing this, but then realized no one would want this in a PM, and to officially release it, as this topic really isn't in one place. WombatRPGs has finally made something of note, which I have decided to open up for criticism in this thread. Maybe I'll post a new topic for it later. Alert: This post will be long.



Lament of a Pactkeeper



Download: http://www.wombatrpgs.frih.net/phpBB2/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=32

Collaboration project of WombatRPGs, by psy_wombats, quack_tape, Aulos, bob_esc, originally entered in GamingW 2-Week contest. Made in RPGmaker 2000, standalone, custom battle system, custom menu system.

This is a full game, despite only being an hour to two hours long. Basically, we're looking for any comments about the game to determine whether or not to continue the project. It's a plot-based game, but because of the time constraints, it may be a bit rushed, and the dialogue is choppy. (Judge for yourself; I'm a perfectionist) Anyway, this took a short amount of time to make. If there are any redeeming qualities in it, or anyone would be interested in playing/helping develop an expanded, full version, we'd like to here about it. Several areas and conversations were cut during the making of the game, and about three hours could be easily added. The question is: Would anyone play these three hours?

So, here's the premise:

In ancient times the four heroes slew the Dark Deity, who, according to legend, transformed into the Dark Gem, which remained unfound, and the one who wielded the Dark Gem would channel the deity's power. Anyway, this paved the road for the founding of the Empire of Light.

You play Siegfried, the stereotypical revenge-seeking parent-assassinated protagonist, living in Lower Regaldia. Enter Aven as a cold, distant protector, and Magdalena as creepy sister. The cast is rounded out by Mulse, a stalwart companion, Loque, a resident of Upper Regaldia, and the passive-aggressive Loraine. Many other characters, many of them sound cliche... They develop, however, and most are as dynamic as an hour allows. Another reason for more time.

Plot progresses when the archetype hero ceases to be standard, starting with a bit of trauma and the hunt for your parents' assassin Rathmyer. Apparently Siegfried has been wanted by the empire for a long time, with no apparent reason. The seemingly pointless murders stack up, (leading to a lot of primary character deaths), and the question remains why any of this is occurring. Might as well toss in the normal themes of betrayal, immortality, greed, insanity, love, power, etc. Nice condensed epic. Make your own judgment.

Battle system and menu system are all-new. It's inventory-based, with no experience and no level-ups. Stats are increased through item equipping. A variety of item attack styles are useful in different scenarios, though equipping them all reduces space available for armor and stat-boosters. That's the strategy. You are free to customize the characters. Time constraints prevent this from being fully developed. It's a plot-based game, to be honest.

Obligatory screenshots:
(URLs as the pics themselves are large)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2761/battlemf7.png
Battle in progress. You can see the inventory layout.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6084/menubi4.png
Menu. Notice again inventory, and character art.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5999/pandafh3.png
Game's token panda. A random cutscene.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2158/slumhu2.png
Starting slum area. Bleak.

Any comment about potential in the battle system or plot is welcome. Or any comment for that matter. Basically, I'm gaging interest in a bigger version of this game, with the same coding. It wouldn't be too hard, as the CBS and CMS would remain intact.
enygmasoft
go to my website at http://www.enygmasoft.com to view the latest information on my game Aeons Tales. The websit has a link of the my 3D game, which as of now stands as a beta, which has a few bugs that still need squashing, but the core of the game's ohysics work. I am doing the graphics myself as well, which means those are incredibly time consuming, but will be worth it. As it stands it has an empty level 1 landscape.
Boffel
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy
Kelcey
Boffel wrote:
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy


Blender is perfect for a free 3d modeler and animation program.
HamsterMan
Well, I have made bunch of flash games (basically my only popular games).

Alot of directx based games made in pascal (delphi),

and a few java applications, but they're not games.

Also if map making counts, I've created maps for duke nukem 3d, blood, cs, css, half life, neverwinter nights and for a alot of really old games.
wombatrpgs
Boffel wrote:
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy


Icon maker? Might as well through GIMP out there, the free equivalent of Photoshop.
enygmasoft
Kelcey wrote:
Boffel wrote:
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy


Blender is perfect for a free 3d modeler and animation program.


I fel in love with this, but for whatever reason the 3d animations never loaded properly into Dark Basic which uses Direct X 9 as its 3D interface to make games.
catscratches
Boffel wrote:
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy
Animation:
2D: GIMP + GAP
3D: Blender

Icon Maker: GIMP

Free Sounds:
MIDI: Anvil Studio
Sound Recording / Editing: Audacity

3D Modeler: Blender
enygmasoft
catscratches wrote:
Boffel wrote:
I added the two games to the list...

But does anyone know some good free tools like an animation program, icon maker, free sounds, 3d modeler etc...

We need more resources Very Happy
Animation:
2D: GIMP + GAPus
3D: Blender

Icon Maker: GIMP

Free Sounds:
MIDI: Anvil Studio
Sound Recording / Editing: Audacity

3D Modeler: Blender


For additional 2D goodness, I use Inskcape, which an open source version of Adobe Illustrator.
Boffel
Thanks allot for your help, the first post is now updated!

Also everyone is welcome to post ideas for the first topic. Its allot stuff to do with a topic post Razz

And if it is something you don't find in the list that you really need/want, ask for it here!

I will try to update the first post once time a week, so we will get a huge list of resources. Everything that could be useful for gamemaking will be added there.

But also remember that you can ask for help and tips for your games here, its not only a resource list. Here we will talk about everything that has something to do with creating games.

Perhaps a beginners guide would be something to add to the first post?
enygmasoft
Boffel wrote:
Thanks allot for your help, the first post is now updated!

Also everyone is welcome to post ideas for the first topic. Its allot stuff to do with a topic post Razz

And if it is something you don't find in the list that you really need/want, ask for it here!

I will try to update the first post once time a week, so we will get a huge list of resources. Everything that could be useful for gamemaking will be added there.

But also remember that you can ask for help and tips for your games here, its not only a resource list. Here we will talk about everything that has something to do with creating games.

Perhaps a beginners guide would be something to add to the first post?


Sounds like an excellent suggestion. I was thinking about setting up link to resources.
Boffel
You can still post more resources, im not sure what more I need to add without the beginners guide, but I dont have time to write one now...

But resources would be fine, anyone know some?
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