I belive that God is real but I'm not so sure about Jesus being his son, it was 2000 years ago and even if the story is true there isn't really any strong evedence prove his esistance but then again as this was a very long time ago you need to have faith... what do you think
Do you belive in God, if so in what form?
I believe in God. I don;t believe he had a son or anything of that sort. He must have had messengers but a son well that just doesn't make sense. God isn't human like us, he's much greater than anything we can even imagine. And i don't think we have any right to call anyone his son.
| Thomas_uk wrote: |
| I belive that God is real but I'm not so sure about Jesus being his son, it was 2000 years ago and even if the story is true there isn't really any strong evedence prove his esistance but then again as this was a very long time ago you need to have faith... what do you think |
Peace be upon you
You can prove Jesus' existence. But that's beside the point. What's most important about his life to all christians and lots of Muslims is what happened at the end of his life. Did he get crucified? Or did he just disappear? Or did God raise Jesus to Heaven like it says in the Quran?
But then again, the story is actually storIES. The four gospels often conflict and contradict each other, even on some major points, which causes confusion. Also there's lots of proof that the Bible has been edited by man, and corrupted by man. E.g. 1 john 5:7 is fake. So the Bible can't even be trusted on this issue of whether Jesus was crucified because the Bible has been changed, and you're not sure what's right and what's wrong.
You say: "but then again as this was a very long time ago you need to have faith" so you're suggesting blind faith? why should i do that? surely if God is really that great He would provide proof about His own existence? I say yes. I personally think Islam has proof. But it's upto you. All you can do is search for Truth and Proof.
may God bless you.
| loyal wrote: |
| You can prove Jesus' existence. But that's beside the point. |
If you can, then it goes straight to the point surely ?
Would you care to share this proof ?
Regards
Chris
In what form... Hmm... I believe that Mohinder in Heroes says if God made the most resilient species in his image, the epitimy of evolution, God would be a cockroach.
| Bikerman wrote: | ||
If you can, then it goes straight to the point surely ? Would you care to share this proof ? Regards Chris |
Peace be upon you.
It wouldn't go straight to the point, because proving he existed doesn't prove that the Bible is right. It's obvious the Bible has been changed and so on, but how do we know if the crucifixition is authentic, and whether he actually was god? We don't. We can only use the Bible, and other scriptures, and other religion's scriptures to find out. Historical evidence won't help, unless you're studying Jesus' family. I watched "the secret family of jesus" and it says that James, the brother, who ruled the early christians, didn't believe Jesus was god, nor did they believe in the crucifixition.
Besides, proving Jesus' existence is very time consuming, and i've got exams. If you really really want, i'll bring stuff to you after my exams finish.
may God bless you.
| loyal wrote: |
|
Peace be upon you. It wouldn't go straight to the point, because proving he existed doesn't prove that the Bible is right. It's obvious the Bible has been changed and so on, but how do we know if the crucifixition is authentic, and whether he actually was god? We don't. We can only use the Bible, and other scriptures, and other religion's scriptures to find out. Historical evidence won't help, unless you're studying Jesus' family. I watched "the secret family of jesus" and it says that James, the brother, who ruled the early christians, didn't believe Jesus was god, nor did they believe in the crucifixition. |
As it stands at present, my understanding is that there are no contemporaneous writings about Jesus, and there is nothing published by the scholars, historians and diarists of the time that mentions him. No Roman account of the crucifixion, no administrative documents listing him and then only 'evidence' I have come across personally are the writings in scriptures - mainly the Gospels - which came well after his supposed death, are often written by unknown sources and by sources who never met or knew Jesus, and were certainly selected to present a particular view of Jesus and Christianity.
| Quote: |
| The consensus of many biblical historians put the dating of the earliest Gospel, that of Mark, at sometime after 70 C.E., and the last Gospel, John after 90 C.E. [Pagels, 1995; Helms]. This would make it some 40 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus that we have any Gospel writings that mention him! Pagels writes that "the first Christian gospel was probably written during the last year of the war, or the year it ended. Where it was written and by whom we do not know; the work is anonymous, although tradition attributes it to Mark..." |
Elaine Pagels (Professor of Religion at Princeton University)-1995
Using the Bible is not, to me, proof of Jesus existence. It is, at best, hearsay evidence which, although not without merit, is certainly not what I would accept as proof. It would be quite astonishing if the NT did NOT represent Jesus as a real, historical personage I think.
Using the NT to verify Jesus' existence is surely like using Von-Daniken's 'Chariot Of The Gods' to prove that UFO/aliens exist - it is hardly an impartial historically verifiable source.
Personally I think that Jesus probably did exist. I don't think he would have been much like the version presented in the Gospels, however.
That is not the point though. I have no evidential basis for accepting Jesus' existence at present and I would be very interested in hearing a case presented which can point to things I have missed or am unaware of.
| Quote: |
|
Besides, proving Jesus' existence is very time consuming, and i've got exams. If you really really want, i'll bring stuff to you after my exams finish. |
Good luck
Chris.
I'm a protestant. For those who don't believe he's real, and you believe 'THE BIG BANG THEORY', you say all of those gasses collided or whatever, but, where did those gasses come from. Mabye the BIG BANG is true. But, god is the reason for that.
| hsadmin wrote: |
| I'm a protestant. For those who don't believe he's real, and you believe 'THE BIG BANG THEORY', you say all of those gasses collided or whatever, but, where did those gasses come from. Mabye the BIG BANG is true. But, god is the reason for that. |
I don't believe in the BB at all. I understand some of the theory and further understand that BB is logical and is currently the best and most tested theory we have for the early universe. If another theory comes along which has better evidence or explains more then I will, like a Man United football fan, switch my allegiance to the new favourite. That is how science works. For the moment the BB theory makes sense, fits much of the evidence we have, explains many of the observations that arose later - particularly the Cosmic Microwave Background, it doesn't violate any fundamental laws of physics and it is logically consistent. I'll settle for that at present.
If you genuinely want to know what happened at the BB then I'd be happy to try and help but I'm guessing from your posting that you don't really want a long explanation of the theory...
I'll just say that no gasses collided because there were no gasses at BB.
To understand the BB theory requires a lot of work - it is not simple stuff. You need to understand relativity, particle physics and quantum theory. Personally I still struggle with a lot of it and am by no means an expert, but that is not because the theory is wrong or silly, it is because it is difficult and I am not a genius
Regards
|Chris
Well i honestly think he exist in some way, i dont know if he exist as a life form but he/she/it exist as a idea atleast and if you think about it coulnt an idea shared by many come to live, not as a life form like you and i but something else, something like a god.
yeah u can prove that jesus was real, even though the evidence is not very strong, and couldn't be used in court today, lets say, there is no real strong edence that he was god's son. and if so y hasn't god sent more sons down to stop the wars and hatetered nowadays ?
| Thomas_uk wrote: |
| yeah u can prove that jesus was real, even though the evidence is not very strong, and couldn't be used in court today, lets say, there is no real strong edence that he was god's son. and if so y hasn't god sent more sons down to stop the wars and hatetered nowadays ? |
There might not be a way to prove it but do people who believe in it really need prove? isnt it about the message he supposed to have sent and not wheter he actually existed or not?
To me "God" is energy, the same energy which you find all over. In all of us and everywhere. And in the "Big Bang"...
And I do believe that there might have lived a man named something like Jesus, not "Jesus" because that is a greek word, in Israel/Palestina 2000 years ago. He was probably a child of "God", the same way as we all are.
And I do believe that there might have lived a man named something like Jesus, not "Jesus" because that is a greek word, in Israel/Palestina 2000 years ago. He was probably a child of "God", the same way as we all are.
Sure , I believe in God of me and I alway say and tell to my god. Thx for this posting.
I believe in Jesus Christ (and the story that goes along with Him).
| Shewolf wrote: |
| To me "God" is energy, the same energy which you find all over. In all of us and everywhere. And in the "Big Bang"...
And I do believe that there might have lived a man named something like Jesus, not "Jesus" because that is a greek word, in Israel/Palestina 2000 years ago. He was probably a child of "God", the same way as we all are. |
yes...and i feel like people that need to belong to religious organizations are just lost and confused, trying to find a way, and being further confused by rabbis and priests...
it's an amazing thing that adults can still believe...and that they can believe in all the childishness brought forth by religious doctrine...brought forth by political doctrine...
i watch the religious circus in awe...the ritual, the costumes, the insanity and wealth on parade and praised by so many out of habit, fear, confusion...
we've separated ourselves into a thousand beliefs and then wonder why we can't live together in peace...the human brain is sick...not complete, but nearly so...just look around...
M
Hey Chris,
You might find it interesting (though not very satisfying) to look into the Jesus and James ossuaries. Apparently the James ossuary got more press, though the Jesus ossuary (assuming it's a true story) seems the more significant of the two.
Some people think they're fake, and some don't. Don't suppose we'll ever know the truth, but at any rate it's an interesting concept... what if Jesus really was just a man - a wise man, but a man nonetheless?
Take care,
Eyvind
| Bikerman wrote: |
| I have no evidential basis for accepting Jesus' existence at present and I would be very interested in hearing a case presented which can point to things I have missed or am unaware of.
|
You might find it interesting (though not very satisfying) to look into the Jesus and James ossuaries. Apparently the James ossuary got more press, though the Jesus ossuary (assuming it's a true story) seems the more significant of the two.
Some people think they're fake, and some don't. Don't suppose we'll ever know the truth, but at any rate it's an interesting concept... what if Jesus really was just a man - a wise man, but a man nonetheless?
Take care,
Eyvind
The question of whether or not Jesus was God is moot in terms of the Jewish way of thinking that was Jesus' own. He said that he is our brother and that we are all sons and daughters of God. He also quoted Pslams saying, "Ye are all gods!"
We are all part of God, assuming everyone here has a soul. The question posed by the OP is, was Jesus the messiah. Just like a Mandlebrot set that is made up of an infinite number of little copies of itself, we are all made in the image of God, but there is only one central attractor (the big cardiod in the middle).
So the real distinction here is that there are bigger replicas of God and smaller replicas of God. Someone, somewhere, has to be the biggest, and that guy is what Jews, Christians and Hindus call God incarnate, although they disagree about who that is.
We are all part of God, assuming everyone here has a soul. The question posed by the OP is, was Jesus the messiah. Just like a Mandlebrot set that is made up of an infinite number of little copies of itself, we are all made in the image of God, but there is only one central attractor (the big cardiod in the middle).
So the real distinction here is that there are bigger replicas of God and smaller replicas of God. Someone, somewhere, has to be the biggest, and that guy is what Jews, Christians and Hindus call God incarnate, although they disagree about who that is.
| Thomas_uk wrote: |
| I belive that God is real but I'm not so sure about Jesus being his son, it was 2000 years ago and even if the story is true there isn't really any strong evedence prove his esistance but then again as this was a very long time ago you need to have faith... what do you think |
there is far more proof of Christs existence in our world, than there is of Julius Caesar's existence.
There is, however, no proof that Christ was the son of God.
I believe wholeheartedly in a god, but perhaps not the same God that traditional christians believe in.
I have a rather unique belief, and it has many merits and has gotten me through life.
Im agnostic. I'd COMPLETELY disbelieve to spite the infidels that try to convert me, but its not worth the effort.
If god is so great then I wont go to hell for waiting until I am ready to make a decision.
If god is so great then I wont go to hell for waiting until I am ready to make a decision.
I believe in GOD. Maybe people try to make sense of GOD by giving him human characteristics. To me we are all part of GOD. People say GOD is love. Maybe that's god. That magic feeling or non-feeling. But I prefer to ask the question, what is the universe. The answer I like to give myself is>
the universe is a conception of GOD. GOD is to the universe as my dreams are to me.
the universe is a conception of GOD. GOD is to the universe as my dreams are to me.
I beleive in god in the sense that something initiated everything(big bang).
in the words of benjamin franklin godmight be a "celestial clockmaker" that just set time in motion.
in the words of benjamin franklin godmight be a "celestial clockmaker" that just set time in motion.
Hi all, I am a newbie to the site, this being my first post!!
Do I believe in God? well, I do, I believe that there has to have been some sort of divine intervention to have created life the way that it appeared on the earth. I am a very scientific minded person however and rely strongly on facts. There are some things though that cannot be explained factually, and the existance of God being one of those. The way I look at it though is that if I have a belief all my life in God and Heaven and it doesn't exist then I have lost nothing, I have led a good life believing in something that is true to me. If however God and Heaven does exist and I have led an unbelieving life then I have lost everything, my life has had no purpose spiritually and i would have wasted the time that was given to me by God.
I hope people agree with my point of view, there are plenty of great posts on this subject already.
Do I believe in God? well, I do, I believe that there has to have been some sort of divine intervention to have created life the way that it appeared on the earth. I am a very scientific minded person however and rely strongly on facts. There are some things though that cannot be explained factually, and the existance of God being one of those. The way I look at it though is that if I have a belief all my life in God and Heaven and it doesn't exist then I have lost nothing, I have led a good life believing in something that is true to me. If however God and Heaven does exist and I have led an unbelieving life then I have lost everything, my life has had no purpose spiritually and i would have wasted the time that was given to me by God.
I hope people agree with my point of view, there are plenty of great posts on this subject already.
We just had a thread on Jesus' existance, and it's worth noting that Genesis and the known history of the universe go pretty well together...
That said, I believe in a God that's pretty much hands off, allowing us to explore our own free wills, but helping out every so often...
HM
That said, I believe in a God that's pretty much hands off, allowing us to explore our own free wills, but helping out every so often...
HM
I believe in God slightly differently than many of you. I believe God created the universe, but he did not create everything in the universe directly, nor interferes with it directly. It used science to create and maintain the universe. The universe is God's version of the Sims, if you will, but he leaves us in automode.
I agree with you {name here}, thats a great analogy !!
| Valentine wrote: |
| Im agnostic. I'd COMPLETELY disbelieve to spite the infidels that try to convert me, but its not worth the effort.
If god is so great then I wont go to hell for waiting until I am ready to make a decision. |
Word brother. I'd throw myself in the agnostic boat, but I thought I'd share a cool quote I read in the book "Life of Pi" (fantastic book). The main character, who is multi-faithed, says he relates well with Athiests but not agnostics. He says that the religious and atheists both "walk as far as the legs of reason can take them and then jump". Agnostics, however, practice doubt. Doubt is acceptable and even important, but eventually we need to decide and move on. "Choosing doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a mode of transportation".
I think everyone has some great reasons to why they believe in God or not. In my opinion everyone though has faith. Faith can mean believing unconditionally, which is what both believers, atheists and agnostics do, but just different things. It can be acceptance of something that you have been told by someone who is considered trustworthy. Faith, by its very nature, requires belief outside of known fact. The very first time you were told by a parent that they will catch you as you jumped into a swimming pool, you could believe or not believe that they would. You put your faith in them that what they say is true. Whether we like it or not everyone has a certain amount of faith in their lives, I just have more in the idea that God exists. It can neither be proved nor disproved.
I dont belive in God however i belive that there is something of power there, or all around us. It could be a kind of energy, force or even a God. I dont belive in the bible yet somehow i dont think all this was created by chance. Some force is out there, godlike or not and its in a form of energy all around us.
I believe the existence of God but not in the way our religions and denominations believed. I also believe in the theory of evolution to the extent they are proven by science.
God and the theory of evolution does not contradict each other. We are still evolving and I don't know what it will us to.
God and the theory of evolution does not contradict each other. We are still evolving and I don't know what it will us to.
True but there are contradictions within the Bible itself which causes people to doubt the existence of God.
I believe in God. I totally agree with Usuf that we do not have the right to say that God has a son! I believe that Jesus was only a messenger and he is not God's son.
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