A recent news story in the Telegraph went into some detail about the kind of information the US authorities demand when anyone flies from the EU to the United States:
| The Telegraph wrote: |
Britons flying to America could have their credit card and email accounts inspected by the United States authorities following a deal struck by Brussels and Washington.
By using a credit card to book a flight, passengers face having other transactions on the card inspected by the American authorities. Providing an email address to an airline could also lead to scrutiny of other messages sent or received on that account.
The extent of the demands were disclosed in "undertakings" given by the US Department of Homeland Security to the European Union and published by the Department for Transport after a Freedom of Information request.
About four million Britons travel to America each year and the released document shows that the US has demanded access to far more data than previously realised. (Story continues...) |
This shows (in my opinion) that there has been a major abuse of power by the US - an EU court ruled a few months ago that their insistence on being given certain data about incoming passengers was actually illegal. However, what is even more disturbing is that the EU has completely backed down against threats of intentional delays to passengers, and has given the US authorities wide and far-reaching legal authority to essentially eliminate a traveller's privacy.
They can look at all emails sent and received to/from the email address used with the bookings. They can also gain access to all previous purchases on the payment card used to book the tickets should they so wish.
But the EU must get something back in return, surely?
| The Telegraph wrote: |
| Washington promised to "encourage" US airlines to make similar information available to EU governments — rather than compel them to do so. |
"Encourage"? Excuse me for being cynical.
I've added a fairly detailed opinion about this in my blog, including how to possibly protect your privacy if you simply have to fly to the US (including using an email address and credit card solely for flight bookings etc). However, my main point is this:
The US Government would be extremely unlikely to have a law like this passed in the US where all internal travellers had to hand over all this data, so why should the EU agree to do so? More to the point, why is the European Union doing absolutely nothing to protect their citizen's legal right to privacy? Interesting, very interesting... I would like more information on this, do you know of any other details, like who is behind this, has it been protested yet, ect...?
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| Interesting, very interesting... I would like more information on this, do you know of any other details, like who is behind this, has it been protested yet, ect...? |
The US Authorities are behind the requesting of mass-information from incoming travellers. The EU more "flagged it up" rather than challenged it before (read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5028918.stm). It has only really come to light now via a Freedom of Information request that just quite how far-reaching the data collection is.Yeah, we're terrible people here in the good ole USA.
Well usually one person is behind the request, or at least the person to give the idea, but you don't have any idea who that is? Very interesting, it does sound very ridiculous, and the fact that only the EU was requested to do this is very suspicious. It also begs the question, why put so much more pressure then is already put on the airlines, when we have a wide open border that illegal immigrants pass through almost every day from Mexico? That is a huge security risk right there. It is also interesting that I haven't already heard something about this, it seems news agencies have a relectence to report this.
Illegal immigrants crossing over the border aren't flying missiles into buildings, although we've begun to take care of them too - remember that nifty fence we're building?
| Soulfire wrote: |
| Yeah, we're terrible people here in the good ole USA. |
To be honest, I don't know if the major contributor to this problem is the USA. Sure, they've requested data from the EU - what amazes me is the fact that it's just been handed over "without a fight" so to speak. It's up to our Governments to protect their citizens. The US are trying to do so (even though I entirely disagree that this is the tact that they need to take) by getting full details about every visitor (or should I say potential threat?) to their country. By the same token, our own Governments should be protecting us as non-US citizens from this significant breach of privacy.
I entirely disagree with the requirement for the US Authorities to be allowed to check past purchases or emails of anyone who merely travels to their country with no other reason. Fair enough, if there is specific information about the person travelling that identifies them as a potential threat, evidence should be submitted to a responsible person from the EU who should then decide whether the threat warrants an in-depth investigation.
As it stands, someone travelling to the USA has less legal rights than someone who is arrested in the UK. The USA have access to financial details etc automatically, where in the UK a district judge has to decide whether the Police have enough evidence to warrant a financial (or otherwise) investigation. It just strikes me as being completely ridiculous.Well, my point was, that terrorists go to Mexico, then cross the border from there, and at this point illegal immigrants are causing more damage to our economy then the terrorists are, I think. I think we need to devote even more of our resources to that problem.
ahhh i wudnt like to fly over to the US at the moment its gonna start chaos soon because of the execution of Saddam.
We're still freaked out over September 11th. We're doing everything in our power (admittedly it's a bit overkill) to prevent the loss of thousands more American lives, can you blame us for being paranoid? We really can't just trust the world...
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| Well, my point was, that terrorists go to Mexico, then cross the border from there, and at this point illegal immigrants are causing more damage to our economy then the terrorists are, I think. I think we need to devote even more of our resources to that problem. |
Is that so, huh? And what sort of problems would those be? What about all the illegal immigrants feeding cheap labour in different large industries/companies. You guys get workers who don't get citizen's benefits...basically it seems like they could be holding up the economy. But...then again. I could be wrong... 
| Soulfire wrote: |
| We're still freaked out over September 11th. We're doing everything in our power (admittedly it's a bit overkill) to prevent the loss of thousands more American lives, can you blame us for being paranoid? We really can't just trust the world... |
Can I turn this into a 9/11 conspiracy discussion? I'm going to ask first before I do.In trying to protect ourselves from potential terrorist threats, we are becoming the very facist state that we have been accused of being. We are becoming more like the Soviet Union that we opposed during the cold war. We are becoming a police state.
We are our own worst enemy.
There are cameras on every street corner, and in every shop.
We have devices on our cars that can be tracked (On-star, Lo-jack).
We carry traceable GPS units in our pockets (cell phones).
There are even people who are comfortable with the idea of IMPLANTED ID.
Our whole lives are like open books if the government chooses to take a look. Even paying our taxes, filing a return, we have to tell the government all about our lives, and that information that we give them can be used against us. (Just check the privacy notice on a 10-40 booklet - there is a Miranda warning mixed in with the lawyerese.)
College kids go off and join fraternities and post hazing pictures on the web, never thinking about how those pictures may come back to haunt them. Highschool kids post intimate details about themseves in online blogs for the world to see.
No-one cares about privacy anymore. Privacy no longer exists -- unless you want to live "off the grid". The only way to stay private is to pay cash for everything, use only public internet cafe's and anonymous web-mail, while wearing a ball cap, sunglasses, and cheek inserts to foil cameras and biometric scanners. Use disposable cell-phones, and never fly anywhere.
Who wants to live like that?
Privacy is history, and that is scary.
| Jinx wrote: |
| ....There are even people who are comfortable with the idea of IMPLANTED ID.... |
An interesting person met me and told me that soon people will be practically forced to get implanted with passport-like chips...made by the varichip company. I haven't confirmed this but it's interesting. Sci-fi is coming true! | jharsika wrote: |
An interesting person met me and told me that soon people will be practically forced to get implanted with passport-like chips...made by the varichip company. I haven't confirmed this but it's interesting. Sci-fi is coming true! |
**Shudder**
Yep, I've heard about that.
This planet is running out of elbow room. I want off. | Jinx wrote: |
| jharsika wrote: |
An interesting person met me and told me that soon people will be practically forced to get implanted with passport-like chips...made by the varichip company. I haven't confirmed this but it's interesting. Sci-fi is coming true! |
**Shudder**
Yep, I've heard about that.
This planet is running out of elbow room. I want off. |
Jokingly I might say take me with you!!!! But seriously...running away is not the solution and knowing humanity colonizing other planets (which we plan on doing apparently) will not solve the problem and it'll just be the same thing all over again. My harsh solution is mass genocide.... 
kill us all and the rest of existance can live in peace! Hah!
