Agnostic:
a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god."
- Merriam-Webster.Com
I am Agnostic, it's really just a fancy way of saying "undecided". I don't personally think that if there is a God that he will judge me based upon my beliefs. I personally believe that if there does turn out to be a God, that my actions and my intentions throughout my life is what will condemn me. Trust me, i'm condemned.
Is there a point to the thread? (What's up for discussion?)
i think he is just informing us. i see a lot of people who think atheism is a religion that worships a god...
I suppose, but still, not much to say here then 
... thanks for the info. | Muslim4life wrote: |
| i think he is just informing us. i see a lot of people who think atheism is a religion that worships a god... |
I always thought it was a religion that worshipped not having a god...I see a number of fanatics all quoting this book or that celebrity; what's the difference precisely? (I mean, obviously excluding the diety...)
HMI agree completely!
Basically, I was raised protestant (And if I was raised catholic, I'm sure I'd be atheist by now), the whole "God wants you to do this, and not that, and say this to those people, and act this way around this type of person" and all that jazz, simply was uninteresting.
I know, that if there was an "almighty being" he would want me to live my life, in a calm, productive manner, while helping others, but living my life! Many Christians these days are so obsessed with the Bible, a piece of work composed entirely by Christians who were doing it only to get in good with other Christians states. The original version has sexist, racist, and acts that to this day, would (and should) land a man in jail for a LONG TIME.
I have a hard time believing that a book so corrupt by my personal beliefs, is the true way to salvation. Further, I generally disagree with the fact that Jesus was God's son. He was a great man, had apparent wisdom and the like. However, he was nothing to behold on any terms, unless you believe that he pulled a few miracles here and there (Although, to be honest, none were documented... I have no clue where they got their stories from).
My theory is, I've seen Christianity from the inside for 20 years, and now I know that it is not my path. I've begun experimenting with other beliefs, but intend to remain Agnostic until I find the right one.
Being Agn. is not the absence of belief, but instead, a belief in that we are willing to accept the possibility of a god, but are unready/unwilling to accept the possibility that any of the gods we are currently connected with hold any validity as being true. And, I couldn't agree more.
Anticollie.
| HereticMonkey wrote: |
| Muslim4life wrote: | | i think he is just informing us. i see a lot of people who think atheism is a religion that worships a god... |
I always thought it was a religion that worshipped not having a god...I see a number of fanatics all quoting this book or that celebrity; what's the difference precisely? (I mean, obviously excluding the diety...)
HM |
Atheism is the absence of belief in a god(s).
Agnosticism is not knowing whether a god(s) exist.
Both come in many flavours.
Atheism
Weak atheism: Not believing a god(s) exist.
Strong atheism: Believing a god(s) does not exist.
Agnosticism
Weak agnosticism: Believing that no one can know wheter a god(s) exist or not today.
Strong agnosticism: Believing that no one can know wheter a god(s) exist or not ever.
And of course, the opposite to atheist is theist (believes a god(s) exist), and the opposite to agnostic is non-agnostic (believes it is possible to know whether a god exists or not) (can't be gnostic because that's taken for something else).
Because of this, it is possible to be both atheist and agnostic, or both theist and agnostic. But you cannot be both theist and atheist.
Observe:
i am a weak atheist and strong agnostic. i don't believe that a god exists, but i cannot say for sure that one doesn't. At the same time, i do not believe that it is or ever will be possible to know for sure whether a god exists or not.
Soulfire is (i believe) a theist and a non-agnostic. He believes that a god exists. And he believes that is possible to know for sure whether or not a god exists (and in his case, he has found proof).
None of atheism, theism or agnosticism are religions. They are categories of beliefs. There are religions that are atheist and religions that are theist. And some religions include agnosticism in one form or another.1) Note: At no point did I say that Atheist=Theist. What I did say is that Atheism=Religious. In essence, an atheist has faith that his belief in God(s) is true (albeit in the non-existence of Him(them); you can't prove it empirically), is usually unwilling to consider the opposite belief, and while hiding behind a shield of logic, believes that the other side (ie, theists) are foolish for their beliefs.
Basically, an atheist does have religion. Just not one that promotes a belief in God...
2) You can't be both agnostic and atheist. Agnostic doubts that God(s) exist, whereas an atheist knows that God(s) don't exist. You can't know something and doubt it at the same time.
HM
| HereticMonkey wrote: |
| 1) Note: At no point did I say that Atheist=Theist. |
i didn't say that you did. i said that it's possible to be atheist and agnostic or theist and agnostic, but not atheist and theist (or agnostic and non-agnostic).
| HereticMonkey wrote: |
What I did say is that Atheism=Religious. In essence, an atheist has faith that his belief in God(s) is true (albeit in the non-existence of Him(them); you can't prove it empirically), is usually unwilling to consider the opposite belief, and while hiding behind a shield of logic, believes that the other side (ie, theists) are foolish for their beliefs.
Basically, an atheist does have religion. Just not one that promotes a belief in God... |
A common misconception. Atheism means the absence of theism. That means a rock is atheist, because a rock cannot believe in a god. Would you say a rock is religious? Of course not.
Some atheists believe there is no god, others simply do not believe there is. There is a big difference. Someone who grew up in a box and has never heard of the concept of a god, or religion, would be atheist.
Not everyone who doesn't believe in god believes there is no god.
| HereticMonkey wrote: |
| 2) You can't be both agnostic and atheist. Agnostic doubts that God(s) exist, whereas an atheist knows that God(s) don't exist. You can't know something and doubt it at the same time. |
You don't understand what atheist means. Atheism has nothing to do with knowing. Atheism - just like theism - is about believing. A strong atheist believes there is no god. A weak atheist does not believe there is a god.
You also don't understand what agnostic means. Agnostic does not mean you doubt, and it doesn't mean you know or don't know. Agnosticism is a belief that the existence of a god either isn't (weak) or can't be (strong) known. You can doubt there is a god and still not be agnostic.
i suggest doing some research into the terms. You are working with incorrect definitions.What would you call a person who believes that God isn't or can't be known BY THEM but holds no view about this in relation to other people?
| mexie wrote: |
| What would you call a person who believes that God isn't or can't be known BY THEM but holds no view about this in relation to other people? |
Depends on why they are that way.
If they think this because they believe they are incapable of understanding what others understand, they are just people that suffer from low self-esteem.
If they think this because they think there's something unique or special about them that makes them personally unable to know, they are egotistical.
If they think this because they simply haven't bothered to consider anyone else, they're just ignorant.All of the options there look pretty grim for the person asking the question... It could be that he/she simply has a sense of humility when approaching a vastly more intelligent being. People who claim to know God's will are usually full of baloney.
My grandmother use to have a saying she had framed on the wall that went something like, "Lord, guide me to seek the truth, and deliver me from those who think they have already found it!"
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
All of the options there look pretty grim for the person asking the question... It could be that he/she simply has a sense of humility when approaching a vastly more intelligent being. People who claim to know God's will are usually full of baloney.
My grandmother use to have a saying she had framed on the wall that went something like, "Lord, guide me to seek the truth, and deliver me from those who think they have already found it!" |
| Quote: |
| If they think this because they believe they are incapable of understanding what others understand, they are just people that suffer from low self-esteem. |
Well, Its important to base the necessity and overall posterity of your soul after death through your own actions, but it's not always necessarily your actions that can decide between condemnation. I believe another strong factor to acknowledge is whether you believe the idea of faith IN something plays any role in your life and whether or not you believe destiny ultimately exists.
