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Fanfics?





jasmine
Do you read fanfics? And what kind do you read?

I tend to gear more on the romantic side. If its a romantic comedy, the better. ^_^

Recently, I've been reading fanfics on Ouran High couplings. I'm not really sensitive in how is paired with whom since I can't pick a fave character. LOL
crimson_aria
I love fanfics! I read anything that interests me. I don't get to read fanfics now though. I used to read a lot when I was in high school.
scimitarmoon
I enjoy fanfics once in a while. I write some of my own in my spare time too, but not for any anime... My stories are all based on the musical Cats or on Phantasy Star Online.

As for genre, I tend to lean more toward longer stories with a mix of genres. Can't stand pure romance stories... I like stories that mix romance in with other things, like a detailed plot, good character development, some action/adventure stuff, and some humor. Not too many unnecessary "dark" elements (doesn't count if the fandom is a "dark" type fandom, but most of my fandoms are not), and I don't like it when people twist the characters all around for no reason. Otherwise as long as it's well-written, I usually enjoy it.
Obake
I've enjoyed reading fanfiction for years now--since 2000 or thereabouts--and I've been writing them for nearly as long, too, although most of what I've written never gets finished or, for that matter, ever sees public upload. I have a long-abandoned Fanfiction.net account and a few drabbles over at my Livejournal, and that's about it. I'm planning on finishing a Legend of Zelda fic soonish (within the next couple of months, at least), and possibly embarking on the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues. And possibly all crossovers, too. One day, I hope to convincingly write a piece of Wodehousian Jeeves/Wooster smut, but frankly, I think I'll probably get around to writing that bestseller first.

Wodehouse and Zelda fandoms aren't the biggest of the bunch[1], and I had to go through a few others before I got to them. I cut my teeth on Harry Potter fanfiction, which prepared me well for the crazier bits of fandom, and I've dallied in a writerly fashion with Discworld and Pirates of the Carribbean as well. Reading-wise, I've been through all these fandoms and also Good Omens, Stargate: Atlantis, and I used to spend a good while trying to find some good Evangelion fic (didn't really ever succeed; anyone who can point me towards some decent fic in this fandom, please do). I've also read fics based on Blake's 7; Battlestar Galactica (the new series); Dr Who; Smallville; various comics; Fullmetal Alchemist; House, M. D.; Gundam Wing; Rurouni Kenshin; Heroes; Firefly; and various crossovers. I want there to be fanfiction for Tanith Lee's Piratica stories, but no one seems to be writing any, and I want to read fanfiction of a very specific pairing for Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, but I haven't gone looking yet.

Of gen, slash, and het, I enjoy het the least, slash the most, and gen is rather fun when done well. Het I will read only on recommendation. I believe there should be more femslash fanfic in the world, but darned if I'm going to be the one to write it.

I have a high appreciation for crack-driven plots, and am fast developing a love of "Five Things" drabbles. I like stories that start off in-character, but I don't mind if they make big leaps, provided those leaps make contextual sense. There are a couple of noteworthy exceptions. I love for my idiosyncratic sense of humour to be served in a way that it often isn't in mainstream reading/viewing/playing. I like romance, I like troubled relationships, I like difficult relationships, I like PWP. I also like plot-centric. I like epic. I like tiny. I like dark. I like insightful. I like fluff. Mainly, I like well-executed.

[1] At least, Wodehouse fandom is comparatively small in terms of the bit of it on the Internet committed to fannish output based on, in addition to general appreciation of, the source. I understand that in the grand scheme, Wodehouse fandom is pretty huge.
corycaly
I like to read fanfics about animes and manga, especially about Gundam Wing, Loveless, Chrno crusade and demon Diary.
Good fanfics make us discover new things about those universe, they make the manga and the characters alive, even if they aren't published anymore. It shows other aspects of the characters, it develops new things that were hidden in the original story, or better, it gives an evolution to it.
I like the site fanfiction.net: it's big and u have every type of stories but fansites are better when u want to read fanfics about only one manga. They are all specialised on the type of stories, the couples u want etc etc.
I like to write fanfictions, but I don't publish them. It's more like a little hobby.
Obake
corycaly wrote:
I like the site fanfiction.net: it's big and u have every type of stories but fansites are better when u want to read fanfics about only one manga. They are all specialised on the type of stories, the couples u want etc etc.


Fanfiction.net is a good multifandom diving board, but it can be very difficult sometimes to find very good fic there, especially if you're looking at a huge fandom, as I suspect Gundam Wing is. Which is why I find that looking for websites or Livejournal communities that reccomend fiction for specific fandoms--or specific types of fiction for specific fandoms--are a faster way of getting to the good stuff.

There are also, still, some fandoms that just aren't served well on Fanfiction.net--I would be hard put finding any Wodehouse stories there, for example, because there simply isn't a section for it, even though I know people are writing the fanfiction (and some of them are, indeed, posting it to Fanfiction.net). I'm not quite sure what the Ff.net system is for creating a new fandom section for the website.

Getting back to Gundam Wing fandom--have you ever read any of Sunhawk's work? I never really got into the fandom--didn't see much point, since I didn't get into the series--but a friend convinced me (after much begging, cajoling, ranting, and raving) to read her Ion series (Heero/Duo), and it was flat out one of the best fics I'd read. So if you haven't been to Sunhawk's site, it's well worth checking out.
jenice
Yeah I read. I'm a multi-fandom ******, as the saying goes. I'm into quite a lot of different fandom, but mostly anything in the fantasy/science fiction/horror category.

My biggest preference is slash. Romance is a favorite. Sub-genres from there like hurt/comfort, crossovers, and such.

My tastes change from day to day.
Kanoga
I usually don't like fanfics...and I tend to stay away from fandoms...
I HAVE read some very good ones but they're few and hidden...I also tend to like long ones.
I dislike the yaoi fandom very much (not yaoi itself) because of the cracknut yaoi fangirls everywhere that don't know what they're doing or completely destroy characters and just pair them together because they're "OMG HAWT".
I do know some yaoi fangirls that aren't idiots though, so don't think I hate all yaoi fans. =)
Obake
Kanoga wrote:
dislike the yaoi fandom very much (not yaoi itself) because of the cracknut yaoi fangirls everywhere that don't know what they're doing or completely destroy characters and just pair them together because they're "OMG HAWT".


*laughs* As a yaoi fan, that's exactly the sort of thing that gets on my nerves too. But then, fandom is pretty much about what pleases you, and if that's a + b = HAWT, well, there's nothing to stop you writing it.

I remember back when slash was just kind of entering the Harry Potter fandom, and slash writers got hated on quite a bit for "destroying" characters by changing this one aspect of their characters (that, I might add, hadn't been properly determined for many of the characters in canon at that time). So I'm not going to growl at anyone for taking characters in a direction I personally don't agree with--it's just that I won't read their fic, either.

Which fanfics have you read and liked?
Kanoga
Obake wrote:
Kanoga wrote:
dislike the yaoi fandom very much (not yaoi itself) because of the cracknut yaoi fangirls everywhere that don't know what they're doing or completely destroy characters and just pair them together because they're "OMG HAWT".


*laughs* As a yaoi fan, that's exactly the sort of thing that gets on my nerves too. But then, fandom is pretty much about what pleases you, and if that's a + b = HAWT, well, there's nothing to stop you writing it.

I remember back when slash was just kind of entering the Harry Potter fandom, and slash writers got hated on quite a bit for "destroying" characters by changing this one aspect of their characters (that, I might add, hadn't been properly determined for many of the characters in canon at that time). So I'm not going to growl at anyone for taking characters in a direction I personally don't agree with--it's just that I won't read their fic, either.

Which fanfics have you read and liked?

Well of course you can write about what you want, there's nothing stopping you from doing that but......The yaoi fans just seem to be EVERYWHERE and the annoying ones always push the yaoi down everyone's throats, claiming character x character is canon and subtextsubtextsubtext.

And Sadly....I can't think of any off the top of my head. =(
Lessien
i love to read some fanfics by times
i guess it depens in what i'm interested at the time
i mostly just read the summary and see what the story is about, don't really have a pref when it comes to what kind of story though i do tend to read stories with some humor and action it quicker then a drama or angst
but there are 2 kinds of fanfics i'll never read cause the few i did started to read out of pure curiousity were yaoi and lemons and i def don't like them
i'm pretty certain that some are actually good but the ones i saw were really bad
but i guess when it comes to good and bad fanfic it all depends on taste, people happen to have dif tastes when it comes to that
there is only one thing i absolutely hate in any fanfic i have read so far and that are pure mary-sue's
you know, the unbelievely beautiful character (hero of the storie) with the most tragic past and the most incredible powers who has to overcome lots of difficulties so she can marry her dreamprins who is def not just a peasant, nor is she at it seems in the end actually
every mary-sue story goes like that
these are just a nightmare to read
i wonder if there is actually someone who likes mary-sue stories
Scaramanga
Lessien wrote:
i wonder if there is actually someone who likes mary-sue stories

The people who write them?

Also, has no-one seen the Geek Hierarchy chart?
(PDF or GIF)
Obake
Kanoga wrote:
[...] The yaoi fans just seem to be EVERYWHERE and the annoying ones always push the yaoi down everyone's throats, claiming character x character is canon and subtextsubtextsubtext.

And Sadly....I can't think of any off the top of my head. =(


Funny, it sometimes seems to me that the het-shippers are everywhere, and just as pushy sometimes. Possibly that's a repercussion of having come out of the Harry Potter fandom, where we have a couple of notorious het-shipping factions. But there are at least a couple of other fandoms I've been in and around where there's been a really strong line in a particular set of het-ships, to the point of deterring slash/yaoi writers from participating in the fandom at all (early new-BSG fandom, for one). Even in extremely slash-happy fandoms, such as SGA, I've never seen that level of deterrance from slash writers towards het-shippers. >>;

My friends and I will talk about x pairing being canon (and subtextsubtextsubtext), but for us at least (I can't speak for slashers in general; in some ways I suspect we're atypical) it's usually not about convincing someone else of the pairing. It's about articulating how very strongly we, ourselves, can see it. Vimes/Vetinari is my OTP--has been for years--but as far as I'm concerned it's not canon per se. Jeeves/Wooster, on the other hand, totally is--even though I seriously doubt that P. G. Wodehouse ever had any intention of his gay bachelor and loyal valet being interpreted in that way, and I'm pretty sure I know a few Wodehouse fans who would faint if they heard me talking about the pairing. It's not about them or their intentions or their interpretations. It's about me, and the fact that there is something about those stories, and about the relationship between Jeeves and Wooster, that means I cannot read/watch the series without seeing them as a pairing. My interpretation of the canon is that they are canon. Subtextsubtextsubtext is an attempt to explain how I arrived at that idea to someone who doesn't automatically get it.

Lessien wrote:
i wonder if there is actually someone who likes mary-sue stories


I'm actually writing a Mary Sue at the moment pleasedontkillme.

The whole concept of a Mary Sue intrigues me. I mean, you have fandom, which is basically this great big playground for people who want to engage with their books/movies/TV/games/whatever on a much more personal level than just consuming those things allows for. And then there's this sandpit in the playground where some people go and throw themselves right into the worlds of their favourite things--engaging on the most personal level possible--and the rest of the kids on the playground mock them for being immature. It's...an interesting reaction, and the impulse towards writing yourself into a story interests me as well. If you want to write about yourself, why write in someone else's story? Why write yourself into this story, and not that one or that one? What makes a story, or a certain set of characters, so important to you that you start to want to see yourself as part of it, among them?

I've only read a couple of Mary Sues myself, and those weren't actually horribly written--though they were both done by very self-aware writers, one of whom was aiming to satirise the Mary Sue genre (and badfic generally). I'm well aware that that's not the norm for Mary Sues, but frankly, I'm not sure great writing is exactly the norm for fanfiction anywhere (nor, arguably, for published fiction). I prize well-written fic because it stands out from the crowd, not because it's easy to find.
jenice
Obake wrote:
Kanoga wrote:
[...] The yaoi fans just seem to be EVERYWHERE and the annoying ones always push the yaoi down everyone's throats, claiming character x character is canon and subtextsubtextsubtext.

And Sadly....I can't think of any off the top of my head. =(


Funny, it sometimes seems to me that the het-shippers are everywhere, and just as pushy sometimes. Possibly that's a repercussion of having come out of the Harry Potter fandom, where we have a couple of notorious het-shipping factions. But there are at least a couple of other fandoms I've been in and around where there's been a really strong line in a particular set of het-ships, to the point of deterring slash/yaoi writers from participating in the fandom at all...


I'm so glad you brought that up. I've seen that many times too. There are many places online where it's banned entirely, but you often won't know it until you get there and get flamed a couple times before you realize. At least with Slash fans, at least where I've been, there's a big warning sign up front that states the purpose of the group.

Obake wrote:
Subtextsubtextsubtext is an attempt to explain how I arrived at that idea to someone who doesn't automatically get it.


I get you there. Once, very recently in fact, a very good friend of mine got so upset with me that I would see the characters that way. I finally challenged her, after many arguments of subtext and different ways of interpreting scenes. I gave her a story to read. I told her then she was to watch the film afterwards and THEN come back and argue with me.

She shut up after that.

There's always a different way of looking at things, and sometimes a connection between two characters, however brief in time, can spawn some incredible scenes in the imaginations of anyone who noticed it.

Obake wrote:
Lessien wrote:
i wonder if there is actually someone who likes mary-sue stories


I'm actually writing a Mary Sue at the moment pleasedontkillme.

The whole concept of a Mary Sue intrigues me. I mean, you have fandom, which is basically this great big playground for people who want to engage with their books/movies/TV/games/whatever on a much more personal level than just consuming those things allows for. And then there's this sandpit in the playground where some people go and throw themselves right into the worlds of their favourite things--engaging on the most personal level possible--and the rest of the kids on the playground mock them for being immature. It's...an interesting reaction, and the impulse towards writing yourself into a story interests me as well. If you want to write about yourself, why write in someone else's story? Why write yourself into this story, and not that one or that one? What makes a story, or a certain set of characters, so important to you that you start to want to see yourself as part of it, among them?

I've only read a couple of Mary Sues myself, and those weren't actually horribly written--though they were both done by very self-aware writers, one of whom was aiming to satirise the Mary Sue genre (and badfic generally). I'm well aware that that's not the norm for Mary Sues, but frankly, I'm not sure great writing is exactly the norm for fanfiction anywhere (nor, arguably, for published fiction). I prize well-written fic because it stands out from the crowd, not because it's easy to find.


I've not read many Mary Sues myself either. However, from what I have read? I couldn't possibly push them all into one category. I've read some fantastic stories that were Mary Sues. If you've got a well-written story, there's no denying it regardless of why the character is there to begin with.

There've also been those that the main characters were thinly veiled Mary Sues going by the name the original character from the show uses. Either way, for me it just depends on the writing itself.
Chelissamow
Romantic comedy fanfics are my favourite. Or.. just romantic ones. xD

I used to read a bunch of fanfics for Naruto, Bleach, InuYasha, and Harry Potter (not an anime but... oh well.). I haven't read very many fanfics lately. I just can't seem to get -into- them.
sopetite
I also love fanfics. Although there are some so-so fanfics, there are lots of talented writers out there, who luckily, post their works for free.

What I do is I put some stuff on my phone so when I've got nothing to do I read them thru my phone~! Smile Kinda geeky but a lot of my artistic works come from reading these fanfics
jenice
sopetite wrote:
What I do is I put some stuff on my phone so when I've got nothing to do I read them thru my phone~! Smile Kinda geeky but a lot of my artistic works come from reading these fanfics


Yeah, I've been known to do that too. I don't do it as much now since they restricted cell phone use where I work, but they're still there for when I've got a free moment to myself.
Pikokola
HMmm Fanfic...
I'm lovin it

But only those funny fanic, not another "filler" ^6
scimitarmoon
Scaramanga wrote:
Also, has no-one seen the Geek Hierarchy chart?
(PDF or GIF)


That is a great picture, had me laughing for quite a while (it was fun to pick out where I fit in the hierarchy, which actually ended up being multiple places). Though admittedly I do write and read fanfiction, but mainly that which is actually good. As in it has a developed plot and three-dimensional characters, and is written in a readable style (that doesn't grate the nerves or isn't boring). I try to stay away from big and insane fandoms like Harry Potter, though I didn't much care for those books to begin with, which actually among HP fans tends to get me incredulous stares or accusations of not giving it a chance. I may be biased but I think HP fans in general tend to be much more pushy than people in other fandoms. I've written for years and have only gotten into the het/gay argument because of pro-yaoi arguments such as "they stand next to each other in this scene" or "he just looks gay" (said of a character in "Cats" - nevermind that this character has been performed by hundreds of actors worldwide. Because you think that one actor "looks gay" as him, the character is obviously gay. Rolling Eyes At least pay enough attention to the characters, not the "hot actors in spandex", to glean subtext based on a character's personality).

In the anime fandoms I've delved into, I haven't really seen arguments of that sort... It seems to be more of a preference thing. Then again, I seem to pick anime fandoms where pairings are pretty well outlined in canon... But I've heard of insane "ship wars" in HP fandom that are kind of scary. As if I wasn't scared enough of that fandom already...
jenice
Oh, I hadn't seen that Geek Hierarchy before! Very funny, except what is a Furrie? I've not heard the term before.

Regarding the ship wars and other oddities of fandom, they occur in virtually every fandom. However, I've found that you'll find a different nature of folks depending on what their fandom of choice is. Like the people and how the regard fandom in general tends to be vastly different between Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Lord of the Rings.

I had to laugh over the yaoi thing though. It's a similar argument that got me into reading fan fiction in the first place. I had seen a couple episodes of a show that made me wonder about how it could have been different. I had some friends that were reading slash and I wondered what the big deal was. It just was over for me the first time I read something.

I never really thought to myself which characters "look gay" or not, but rather it depended more on the chemistry between two characters. Watching them in their interaction, het OR gay, I wonder about some characters. Doesn't mean I'll read fan fiction over the subject, but it's those wondering thoughts that get people started on reading it.
Scaramanga
jenice wrote:
Oh, I hadn't seen that Geek Hierarchy before! Very funny, except what is a Furrie? I've not heard the term before.

For your edification.

jenice wrote:
I had to laugh over the yaoi thing though. It's a similar argument that got me into reading fan fiction in the first place. I had seen a couple episodes of a show that made me wonder about how it could have been different. I had some friends that were reading slash and I wondered what the big deal was. It just was over for me the first time I read something.

I never really thought to myself which characters "look gay" or not, but rather it depended more on the chemistry between two characters. Watching them in their interaction, het OR gay, I wonder about some characters. Doesn't mean I'll read fan fiction over the subject, but it's those wondering thoughts that get people started on reading it.

My "problem" (as it were) with yaoi fanfic, is not the character interaction part, but the fact that I'm curious why (mostly) hetrosexual women seem to be the predominant writers/readers of said "genre". Hell, this applies to yaoi in general, fanfiction or not.
sopetite
Have you ever read "THE DEMON THAT LOVES ME" by Ms. catherine? It's absolutely wonderful. Here's a preview:
"The Demon That Loves Me

By Miss Katherine

Rated: PG - 13 – For language, violence, and suggestive themes!

Claimer: Everything in this story is mine. Any attempt of theft will be swiftly dealt with a kick in the genitals.

- - -

A/N: Re-Revision finished 7/8/06.

- - -

Chapter 1: Fire

- - -

It’s not my fault. Really. So what if I went in without his permission? Kyou had his apartment door wide open. There was just no possible way that I could know that once I closed the door, I’d be locked and lost in his apartment for the next two and a half hours, in the dark.

So you can’t really blame me for accidentally kicking his TV set over, or accidentally tipping over a pot of roses. That would be unfair. You can’t really blame me for, in an attempt to find my way out, running into things like refrigerators and lamps. You can’t really blame me for cleaning out his fridge when I got hungry after the first hour.

Okay, maybe that was my fault.

But is it really my fault for accidentally finding that lacey black thong in the back of Kyou’s refrigerator?

Um, no. Yeah, the thong was a surprise for me, too.

By now, I can estimate that I’ve probably caused around $1000 or more dollars of damage to Kyou’s apartment. And hey, that’s only in his living room and kitchen so far—I haven’t even been to his bathroom or bedroom yet!

Two and a half hours. In the dark. Without my medication.

Kenmei is not a happy girl.

You’d think that I, Kenmei Shinja, being 25 years old—well, sometimes 23, but only on Mondays—would know better. You’d think that someone seeing a physiatrist for being paranoid would just know better than to just walk into an apartment. You’d think I’d just know better.

“Ow!”

But no, I don’t.

“Stupid wall!” I murmured, rubbing my forehead with my hands. That’s got to be the 6th one I walked into today.

Damn, this is just sad.

The apartment was just too dark. The man didn’t bother investing in night-lights. I should’ve known that Kyou probably wasn’t home anyway; it was too quiet when I first went in.

Sighing, I ran my fingers up and down the walls, searching for a switch that would turn the lights on. I’ve been trying forever to find it, but so far, no luck.

I know I should give up by now and stop moving or else I’ll just mess up his apartment even more, but I’d rather not face Kyou when he comes home. Because when he does, he’ll take one look at his apartment and ask me what happened.

And I have a feeling that he’s not going to buy my story of how I fought off the two crazy Scottish burglars that were out to get his kitchen utensils with my bare hands...."

Rest is at http://www.fictionpress.com/s/1163484/1/
Obake
Scaramanga wrote:
My "problem" (as it were) with yaoi fanfic, is not the character interaction part, but the fact that I'm curious why (mostly) hetrosexual women seem to be the predominant writers/readers of said "genre". Hell, this applies to yaoi in general, fanfiction or not.


That's actually something my friends and I have been discussing lately. I can't really explain from a personal point of view why a straight woman would find it appealing--for me, the appeal is finding fiction where characters-like-me are foregrounded. That's a very Western interpretation to take, and it doesn't really explain why I prefer yaoi over yuri, but there you go.

But as for why straight women are such a huge part of the audience--it comes partly down to the marketing and aesthetic of the genre itself. Yaoi has always been a straight woman's genre, because it grew out of shoujo-style romances and tends to have a similar visual style and narrative focus on romance and relationships, even where those relationships are sexual. The men in yaoi are very often feminised in some way--they're lithe, they're wide-eyed, they have flowing hair, long lashes, red lips, whatever. From what I understand, that's a stark contrast to the stuff actually marketed to Japanese gay men, where characters tend to be hypermasculinised (bulging muscles, body hair everywhere, etc.), and plots focus on sex more than relationships. It's even possible to interpret yaoi as a homophobic genre (in about the same way that lesbian pornography marketed to men can be interpreted as homophobic). The homosexuality presented in yaoi is frequently, if subtly, situational, and the emphasis is much more on female fantasies about male homosexual life than either the reality of living as a male homosexual or the fantasies of male homosexuals themselves.

Another part of it comes down to...well...call it libidinal curiosity. The straight women who read/write/buy yaoi tend above all to be young straight women who, it's reasonable to expect, still have limited experience with men, but all the hormones are buzzing around, so they're curious. And for a male-attracted woman, well, one fully-functioning male > none, but two of the same > one.

That also probably explains the comparatively narrow appeal of yuri for straight women.

But it's not all targeted marketing and crude pseudo maths! A friend has also forwarded a theory based around the seme/uke dynamic--specifically, the relation of the uke character to a certain kind of female character.

In my experience, a dominant seme character is the one likely to be deemed "hot" by fangirls, but the uke is more usually the point of identification. And uke characters--well, they tend to share attributes with a certain type of female shoujo character (they're talkative and emotionally open, maybe a little naive, but they've also got some sass, they're impulsive, and so on...). And just you watch them try to resist a seme's/male's advances.

Now, in an uke, that makes for an adorable character who many fangirls will see some of themselves in. But a female character like that tends to get hated on pretty savagely by those same people.

The difference is how those attributes get attached differently to the two characters. For a male uke, they're just character traits. For a female character, though, they're a function of her gender, right down to the bit where her power--in fact, her self--is delimited and defined by her relation with men. When it's a female character, and when you're a young woman maybe just starting to realise how real that sort of delineation is, that can be very uncomfortable. By making the character male (and maybe even feminising his partner, just a bit), you take gender out of the equation. So part of the appeal of yaoi is a distancing mechanism. You can like the uke character, identify with him, and even appreciate the power dynamic between he and his seme(s), without the implication that you're supposed to replicate his personality or behaviour, or that you necessarily need to concede power the way that he does in relationships, just because you have a corresponding anatomy.

As an addendum--although I'm aware that the majority of women into yaoi are straight, most of the fangirls I know actually identify as bisexual, whether they are demonstrably so or not. I'm fairly certain this isn't a reflection of my own sexuality ("I'm not straight, so many of my friends aren't straight"), since I tend to meet and connect with people fannishly before I learn anything about their sexuality. I'm curious to know whether other people are in a similar situation, or whether it's just a localised coincidence.
hilariouslicorice
Not so much anymore! But in the late nineties, my sis & I were part of the glorious Daria fanfic "movement" Laughing heehee!
ddukki
Anyone recommend any good fanfic sites for a casual reader to start off? And maybe some more deeper sites if they start to grow on me?
jenice
fanfiction.net is probably the best for casual reading. Deeper reading would mean an archive for a specific fandom. There's a few other good general archives out there, but I don't think any are as good. You won't always find the best writers there, but it's very comprehensive in the subjects it covers.

There's one other archive that's good for all subjects in fandom if you're leaning towards adult fan fiction, but I would not consider that something for casual reading. It's a decent place to start if you like that sort, and before you go off finding specific fandom-centric archives to read from: AFF.net

I know of several different fandom-centric archives out there for many different fandoms, but honestly a good way to find those is to read the profiles of the authors, or even just the author notes included in a story. You'll usually find people will mention other places they publish their work.
304esque
OBAKE > Your post = awesome.

I used to read tons of fics. But now, I'm mostly interested in things that I write myself^^;

I tend to be uberly biased lately D: I like somethings when -I- write them, and not when anyone else does >w>
Obake
304esque--thanks. ^^;

I find that I do much the same thing--or maybe it's not so much that there are things that are only ok when I do them, as that I have ego enough to believe I can do it well where others have failed.

Regarding fanfiction sites: the hub of a lot of fandom activity is currently at lj--if you're looking for multifandom stuff there are a lot of journals and communities devoted to recommending (good) fanfic, and if you're devoted to a particular fandom/pairing/genre then you can search for that too. I can't think of a list of communities off the top of my head, but I'll do some searching tonight and try and come up with a list for you.
Obake
Ok, so this isn't a list of lj communities, but it is at least one community--multifandom, multigenre, multiship. Fanfic_recs: "whatever floats your boat".

For ease of perusal, they have a list of posts sorted by fandom, available through the community's memories, here.

The moderators check for readability and, I suspect, general common sense before they let anyone start recommending fanfiction, so there should be both a high good!fic:bad!fic ratio, and a low presence of fangirl babble/incoherence.
Chelissamow
Just a question:
What are Mary-Sue fanfics? o_O
Obake
Chelissamow wrote:
What are Mary-Sue fanfics? o_O


Mary-Sue fics are fics where you insert yourself (or a thinly veiled version of yourself) into the story and the world you're writing about. But it's generally not an accurate version of yourself.

An overblown example based on Harry Potter fandom:

Miss M. Sue is [often an American] student recently transferred to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. She is pretty, smart, probably good at Quidditch, seems to make friends easily, but feels herself to be deeply misunderstood. She has a mysterious past and a crush on [Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy/Professor Severus Snape], which will probably wind up being reciprocated in some form by the end of the story. She may turn out to be the secret lovechild of [Professor Severus Snape/Sirius Black/Tom Riddle (but not Voldemort--ick!)]. She has oodles of Girl Power in addition to her magic, and will become instrumental in the fight against Voldemort. She may or may not wind up sacrificing herself in order to save wizardkind.

The name Mary Sue comes from one of the original stories to be written like this, in Star Trek fandom (because so many fannish things kicked off with Star Trek). I can't quite remember whether it was the name of the character, though, or the author's pseudonym. Male versions of the Mary Sue do exist, though they're far fewer, and these are called Gary (or Larry) Stus.

A lot of people consider Mary Sues to be frankly embarrassing and automatic examples of bad!fic. They have a reputation for being poorly written--unsurprising, considering a lot of the people who are writing them are teenagers--but then, a lot of fanfic is both poorly written and by teenagers. What's most embarrassing about Mary Sues is the fact that they are such blatant and shameless examples of wish fulfillment. We're not supposed to literally want to go to Hogwarts and make out with [insert male wizard's name here]. Writing yourself into the story like that bespeaks a kind of wistfulness and inability/unwillingness to deal with reality that makes a lot of people--sometimes even the author, eventually--cringe. And making yourself into, like, the Greatest Girl Ever (GGE) seems just a little egotistical.

Not all Mary Sues are written according to that model, but the GGE is the usual conception of what makes a Mary Sue. A more true-to-life or well-written self-insert story will tend to be called just that--a self-insert--in order to differentiate it from a mere Mary Sue.

I'm hoping that the Sue I'm writing (intermittently at the moment) won't quite follow that template. There's a certain sarcasm and irony to the character that doesn't really fit the GGE model, along with a couple of other things. But it's still an idealised version of me, so I'll call it a Sue rather than a self-insert.
zanzou
:) Jumping in on the thread.

I have to say, that's quite a good description of Mary Sues. It's always nice when, in fic discussions, people bring up how they dislike those fics instead of "My favourite fic evar wuz when Goku married that cuuuuuuuuuuul transfer from New York!" or something similar. :/

I find the best way to avoid MS fic is to avoid ff.net, myself. I don't actually remember the last time I saw a MS fic posted on livejournal, for instance.

Do people still write blatant self-inserts? I remember several authors who only had fic after fic of themselves having sex with fictional characters.. >_> In some ways, ff.net getting rid of NC-17 fics was good, because at least those don't show up when I get bored enough to go there.

:) In other news, I am a completely addicted fanfic reader and writer. The worst cases of fic-lust I've had have been for Star Wars, Harry Potter, Gundam Wing, and Yami no Matsuei. I imagine that I would read a lot more fics in various fandoms if I could just FIND fics for them. I'm willing to put up with badfic if it means that there's some good-fic to balance it out, myself.
Obake
Hey, so I didn't kill the thread after all! Neato! Very Happy

zanzou wrote:
It's always nice when, in fic discussions, people bring up how they dislike those fics instead of "My favourite fic evar wuz when Goku married that cuuuuuuuuuuul transfer from New York!" or something similar. :/


You and I must live in different parts of the Internet--I can't remember anyone reacting positively to a Mary Sue fic, with the exception of Libertine's Harry Potter and the Internet, which distinguished itself by being well-written, snarky, and taking the michael out of everything it laid its grubby little mitts on. The reactions I've come across have tended more towards the negative, from the squirming, uncomfortable, "I know these kids are working through their own issues, but ugh, do they have to do it in public? And ask for R&R?", right down to outright snark and/or flaming.

That said, I've spent more time reading about Mary Sues than reading the stories themselves. Which says something about how few Mary Sues I've read, really, because fandom scholarship is pretty tight-lipped with regards to this facet of fandom. They're all over slash (and femslash, in certain fandoms), and soon it's going to be all about the bandom. But I take the lack of academic writing about Mary Sues as a continuation of the general embarrassment people seem to feel regarding them.

I don't doubt that ditching ff.net is a good way to avoid Mary Sues--ff.net simply contains too many fandoms and houses too many authors not to be overburdened by badfic, and Mary Sues frequently rate in that category. It also suffers--or still did, last I checked--from the lack of any reliable means to find good fic, or at least fic of the kind you're interested in, except by trawling the Favourite Authors lists of your favourite authors (who you have to find first). Unless of course you're reading fic in a blessedly small fandom.

Livejournal probably also houses its share of badfic and Mary Sues (I know there is at least one community devoted to MSTing and generally heckling MS fic, so there must be some). But a livelier infrastructure of fandom-specific archives and reccommendation communities, as well as the search-by-interest function, make it much easier to find fic that you'll actually want to read.

zanzou wrote:
Do people still write blatant self-inserts?


Well, I am. So there's one, at least. :p

I can't see that people will stop writing blatant self-inserts, ever. There are even published authors who do it (I have a friend who keeps buying Anita Blake novels purely for the amusement of seeing how Laurel K. Hamilton manages to further Super-Saiyajin her protagonist this time). This is the thing. For all the embarrassment, for all the teeth-gnashing and uneasiness that these sorts of stories engender, there is a strange kind of attraction to them as well. There's something attractive about writing them, and for some people, there's something attractive to reading them. I find I'm equally puzzled and fascinated by both reactions.

zanzou wrote:
In some ways, ff.net getting rid of NC-17 fics was good, because at least those don't show up when I get bored enough to go there.


Yeah, I can see how you'd rather not run into those...though there were a lot of good authors that disappeared as a result of that (and not all of them had written NC-17s), and I still resent the rationale given, not to mention the short warning. I can't remember clearly now, but I'm not sure we even had a full week to get stories backed up and out of the archives. I could be very wrong, of course: I can't find dates anywhere now.

zanzou wrote:
The worst cases of fic-lust I've had have been for Star Wars, Harry Potter, Gundam Wing, and Yami no Matsuei. I imagine that I would read a lot more fics in various fandoms if I could just FIND fics for them.


Ooh, Yami no Matsuei. It's been so long since I read fic in that fandom. Can you reccommend anything to me?

As for the question of finding fic at all in certain fandoms, I know how you feel. My favourite pairing, Vimes/Vetinari (Discworld), seems to have dried up badly in the last few years, which is a shame because we've had some good canon development in that relationship. And I fear Dirk/Whuskery of Piratica is never going to exist outside my head. Which fandoms would you be looking for fic in, specifically? You never know, I might be able to help.
zanzou
Obake wrote:


You and I must live in different parts of the Internet--...


I find it is highly dependent on the age-range of the forums-- if it's young people (~10-14), MS fic is seen more as "that thing I also right! *sparkle*" than "plague of fandom". It's why MS authors still have people (or maybe just sockpuppets?) trolling around the internet defending their precious work from criticism and causing wank-storms. It doesn't usually happen where I usually hang out (re: livejournal), but it happens none the less, but most frequently on fanfiction forums (skyhawke, ff.net, etc) where the young authors spend their time.


Obake wrote:
That said, I've spent more time reading about Mary Sues than reading the stories themselves.


Really? I feel quite sure that I've seen some serious "this is what a marie sue is, and these are the ways to avoid it, and also here's its history!" things over the years. This sort of thing most often comes up when a MS author is wanking it up and/or trying to figure out why all her reviewers are calling her character a MS. Livejournal had several MS-find-and-bash communities, though they don't all exist anymore (I can't find out if the big community exists anymore, for example, but pottersues is still around..., and fandom_wank, which was awesome, has since been banned and moved to journalfen). ANYWAY, I think the only way to get a lot of discussion going on the topic is if you're poking at fandom-idiocy-finding communities like those. :)

Obake wrote:
I don't doubt that ditching ff.net is a good way to avoid Mary Sues--ff.net simply contains too many fandoms and houses too many authors not to be overburdened by badfic, and Mary Sues frequently rate in that category.

I think it's the fact that ff.net is most author&fans's first archive (first on google, etc etc) that does it-- though I don't go browsing other big archives nearly enough to back up this assumption. The archives I do go to are usually fandom specific (Smallville Slash, SG1-slash/adult, Supernatural-All) which usually seems to filter out all the MSs (it's obvious why in the slash-archives' case, though not so much so for just general archives. >_> Maybe I'm just in slash-dominated fandoms.)

Obake wrote:
It also suffers--or still did, last I checked--from the lack of any reliable means to find good fic, or at least fic of the kind you're interested in, except by trawling the Favourite Authors lists of your favourite authors (who you have to find first). Unless of course you're reading fic in a blessedly small fandom.


The only place I don't need a recommendation for me to read anymore is livejournal, and that's because I don't have to go scrolling through massive amounts of archive to find anything. FF.net has a few authors that I really, really enjoy and so I trust their judgement enough to give things a shot-- though I only know a few where they seem to hit quality every time in their favourites-list.

They introduced a feature called "C2 Communities" a few years back. It was basically a way to make recommendations more publicly accessible, and it worked for a while-- but now there's so many doubles of C2 Community topics, because people wanted their own instead of sharing one that already existed.

And small fandoms certainly don't save you from the bad fic-- The Dark Is Rising fandom is tiiiiny compared to most, and it STILL has it's share of bad-fic/Marie-Sues. It's just easier to go through everything and find the good stuff. XD

Obake wrote:
Livejournal probably also houses its share of badfic and Mary Sues (I know there is at least one community devoted to MSTing and generally heckling MS fic, so there must be some). But a livelier infrastructure of fandom-specific archives and reccommendation communities, as well as the search-by-interest function, make it much easier to find fic that you'll actually want to read.


Most of the stuff that gets reported to those communities (that I've seen, at least) has come from ff.net and then been reported to LJ-- not that it was on LJ originally. But again, I filter things down-- big fandoms (HP, SPN, etc) get too much attention for me to join the main fic communities, so I filter them down, and so could likely filter out most of the MS-fic. But it's just so much EASIER to do. :D

Obake wrote:
I can't see that people will stop writing blatant self-inserts, ever. There are even published authors who do it (I have a friend who keeps buying Anita Blake novels ... There's something attractive about writing them, and for some people, there's something attractive to reading them. I find I'm equally puzzled and fascinated by both reactions.


I don't have nearly as much problems with an author inserting themselves into original stories-- you can have fantasy!you do anything you want, frankly... it's the I-write-about-myself-having-sex-with-Draco-Malfoy-yes-I'm-serious that get me all creeped out. If the author admits to it with a certain amount of "yeah, I know. I'm sorry. But it's fun!" then it's okay-- but the ones who are COMPLETELY SERIOUS about it are just... weird. It's like when people on forums have the names of fictional characters and ONLY respond as those characters, instead of just using it as a penname. I just want to smack them back into reality.

I'm also guilty of the AB novel buying-- though I haven't done so in a while. Her lets-have-character-orgies-yay! started getting too self-indulgent, and then there's the whole when-she-divorced-her-husband-richard-became-a-dick thing (there's a word for it. My brain is too tired to remember what it is.) and I had to stop. D: I've heard that the lastest books have been an improvement, though... Anyway, even if main characters in original novels are blatant marie sues or self inserts, they're never as bad as those happening in preexisting worlds. Canonsues are often even endearing (though mostly not).

Obake wrote:
Yeah, I can see how you'd rather not run into those...though there were a lot of good authors that disappeared as a result of that (and not all of them had written NC-17s), and I still resent the rationale given, not to mention the short warning. I can't remember clearly now, but I'm not sure we even had a full week to get stories backed up and out of the archives. I could be very wrong, of course: I can't find dates anywhere now.


Wikipedia wrote:
On September 12, 2002, FanFiction.Net banned material that was rated NC-17. Stories categorized as NC-17, or advertised as potentially such were removed without prior notice. Since then, the site has relied on its users to report stories that are inappropriately rated.


No notice at all, apparently... though I feel like there was a period of time when they were still on the site but you couldn't upload any, and then they were all taken down. In fact, I know that HAS to be the case, because some authors changed stories from being NC-17 to just R. *pokes biased wiki page*

But I agree-- so many good authors left, and a lot of good fanfiction was probably completely lost. I remember an awesome epic-length Fushigi Yugi fic I had read just a few months before the ban that I`ve never been able to find since, for instance. :/

I actually think the general content-quality of ff.net went down at that point-- so, so many of the good authors at the time completely abandoned the site, leaving it to newbies and people who didn't care. Especially RIGHT AFTER the ban, I remember being almost completely unable to find good-fic on the site.

And I agree-- the rationale was complete bullshit. "We don't want to deal with parents complaining about how their kids are pervs, so we're caving." ://// It happens way too often (See: Livejournal Strikethrough), and I always think it's bullshit.

Obake wrote:
Ooh, Yami no Matsuei. It's been so long since I read fic in that fandom. Can you reccommend anything to me?


Forgive me for forgetting how to post embedded links, but here you go: http://www.fanfiction.net/community/Yami_No_Matsuei_TsuzukiHisoka_focus/5057/3/0/1/ That was my C2 community-- it hasn't gotten a lot of attention from me lately (not being on ff.net a lot contributes to that...) but I also felt the impact of the Giant-Wank-That-Split-The-Fandom back in the day, and so haven't really recovered. Most of my serious yami-reading days was when the fandom was very, very small (I remember when there was less than 300 fics on ff.net I remember breaking 1000 fics! ;_; nostalgia!), but I do think that it's slowed down in the last few years-- probably due to a lack of new chapters from the author.

Obake wrote:
As for the question of finding fic at all in certain fandoms, I know how you feel. My favourite pairing, Vimes/Vetinari (Discworld), seems to have dried up badly in the last few years, which is a shame because we've had some good canon development in that relationship. And I fear Dirk/Whuskery of Piratica is never going to exist outside my head. Which fandoms would you be looking for fic in, specifically? You never know, I might be able to help.


Right now I'm desperately looking anywhere I can for Twelve Kingdoms fic (found: 3 authors) and anything for Fiona Patton (especially her new book, the Silver Lake) and/or Marc Anthony. I don't make it very easy, I must say. ^^;
zanzou
From HP fanfiction that's recently pissed me off.

I hate when people are no longer writing based off canon; they're writing based off other fics they've read. The interpretations of characters is PURELY fanon, with no basis in canon whatsoever. Maybe the first person who wrote a character that way built it up to make sense, but out of context it makes NO sense.

Being in multiple areas of HP fandom for multiple pairings, I hate that more-feasible pairings are somehow LESS based in canon than the ones that are out of nowhere.

*releases stress urgh*
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