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Zealots of this calibre make me laugh





{name here}
http://www.riscos.org/articles/pv_nov2006.html

When you get to the web design section, you know this guy is just terribly biased and thick headed about RISC-OS. It seems like he never tried to check up on his facts, and it seems like he didn't use any OS he criticized for over a minute.
ezekiel_rage
{name here} wrote:
http://www.riscos.org/articles/pv_nov2006.html

When you get to the web design section, you know this guy is just terribly biased and thick headed about RISC-OS. It seems like he never tried to check up on his facts, and it seems like he didn't use any OS he criticized for over a minute.


Well, He does have a point.

The man does have (or so he claims) an MSCE. So he probably knows what he is talking about.

I do agree that half the time spent on accomplishing something in windows is spent on coping with the inadequacies of the Windows platform.

Just today a friend was editing 16 minutes worth of video and after waiting for almost 2 hours in rendering the final output, Windows crashed on him. It may be that his hardware is inadequate (PIII 600MHz, 256MB RAM). But, that task is easily accomplishable in Linux with that kind of hardware, without any fuss.

What I dont agree with is that calling windows user's morons and idiots.

It's most probably that most computer users have not been enlightened that they have choices, and choices for the better.

Windows really is, IMHO, just a necessary evil we (at least I) have to live with.

My two cents.
{name here}
ezekiel_rage wrote:
{name here} wrote:
http://www.riscos.org/articles/pv_nov2006.html

When you get to the web design section, you know this guy is just terribly biased and thick headed about RISC-OS. It seems like he never tried to check up on his facts, and it seems like he didn't use any OS he criticized for over a minute.


Well, He does have a point.

The man does have (or so he claims) an MSCE. So he probably knows what he is talking about.

I do agree that half the time spent on accomplishing something in windows is spent on coping with the inadequacies of the Windows platform.

Just today a friend was editing 16 minutes worth of video and after waiting for almost 2 hours in rendering the final output, Windows crashed on him. It may be that his hardware is inadequate (PIII 600MHz, 256MB RAM). But, that task is easily accomplishable in Linux with that kind of hardware, without any fuss.

What I dont agree with is that calling windows user's morons and idiots.

It's most probably that most computer users have not been enlightened that they have choices, and choices for the better.

Windows really is, IMHO, just a necessary evil we (at least I) have to live with.

My two cents.

I do agree with calling a majority of windows users morons and idiots because they are - I'll bet you that none of your friends even know what a cursor, taskbar, and operating system are. I'll bet you they think that their hard disk is memory. They only know windows and macs and know nothing of how to operate them except point at the e on the desktop and go onto the internet, which some even claim is stored on their computer.
ocalhoun
Well, some windows users are morons (I could cite a few examples out of my personal experience), not all are. I'm using windows, and I'm not a moron (although there may be some dispute about that here). I use it because it's the only OS Dell bothered to write a CPU fan driver for that is compatible with my laptop.

I would say that all morons use windows (with very few exceptions), but not all windows users are morons.
Tex_Arcana
The one thing that could be said about Windows is that when it works it works well. The fact that Microsoft has strong armed the computer hardware and software industry into near universal support is also a point that keeps people from straying too far from M$'s apron strings (I had another analogy to use but I'm keeping it clean).

One of the problems I constantly run up against using Linux is hardware compatabilty. SOme manufacturers support Linux very well and I buy their products, others have little support and I hardly ever buy their products, and some have no support at all and I never buy their products.

I don't see this changing anytime soon until there is a least a 30% market of Linux users. I don't see a lot of people putting themselves out to learn a new OS that they have little experiance with, even though Linux has become increasingly user friendly and really provides a better OS.

I try to spread the word. I often offer to help people partition their hard drives and install Ubuntu for dual booting and show them how to use it.
ezekiel_rage
{name here} wrote:
ezekiel_rage wrote:
{name here} wrote:
http://www.riscos.org/articles/pv_nov2006.html

When you get to the web design section, you know this guy is just terribly biased and thick headed about RISC-OS. It seems like he never tried to check up on his facts, and it seems like he didn't use any OS he criticized for over a minute.


Well, He does have a point.

The man does have (or so he claims) an MSCE. So he probably knows what he is talking about.

I do agree that half the time spent on accomplishing something in windows is spent on coping with the inadequacies of the Windows platform.

Just today a friend was editing 16 minutes worth of video and after waiting for almost 2 hours in rendering the final output, Windows crashed on him. It may be that his hardware is inadequate (PIII 600MHz, 256MB RAM). But, that task is easily accomplishable in Linux with that kind of hardware, without any fuss.

What I dont agree with is that calling windows user's morons and idiots.

It's most probably that most computer users have not been enlightened that they have choices, and choices for the better.

Windows really is, IMHO, just a necessary evil we (at least I) have to live with.

My two cents.

I do agree with calling a majority of windows users morons and idiots because they are - I'll bet you that none of your friends even know what a cursor, taskbar, and operating system are. I'll bet you they think that their hard disk is memory. They only know windows and macs and know nothing of how to operate them except point at the e on the desktop and go onto the internet, which some even claim is stored on their computer.


Then you lost the bet.

All of my friends, know what a cursor, taskbar, and operating system are. They know the difference between RAM and Hard disk.

With the exceptions of my friends that dont use or not interested in a computer, of course.

As I have said Windows is just a neccessary evil we have to live with.

I'll offer myself as an example.

I'm a web developer for a California-based company.

So far I have successfully "influenced management to shift to Linux for our servers.

But as of now we are still tied to Windows.

Why?

Because of the tools we have to use (and have standardized upon long time ago) runs on Windows and Mac.

My department uses PC's, hence, Windows. Migrating to Mac will require a large monetary investment.

But, I can assure you that, once Adobe starts to release versions of their flagship applications that will run natively in Linux there will be no reason for us to use windows.

Of course, there are alternatives, like the GIMP, NVU and Flash4Linux. But, in all honesty, they have not yet reached the maturity and functionality that their Windows/Mac counterparts offer.

I suppose we can run Windows apps through Wine, but there will a huge stability issue. since wine is still in the beta stage.

And for all intents and purposes, stability is huge issue.

Another example is the gaming industry.

Most casual PC enthusiast, are in all probability hard-core gamers.

Since their games runs almost exclusively on the Windows platform they have no choice but to use windows, even if they are aware of of the alternative.

Again, its the stability issue.

Of course they can run games in Wine, but how many NEW games are really stable in WINE?

Very few.

So Windows is just a neccessary evil many of us have to live with.

But that'll soon change.

VERY SOON!!!
{name here}
Quote:
{name here} wrote:
{snip for condensing puroposes}


Then you lost the bet. All of my friends, know what a cursor, taskbar, and operating system are. They know the difference between RAM and Hard disk. With the exceptions of my friends that dont use or not interested in a computer, of course.


Take into account the average computer user - these are the idiots. I'm not talking programmers, web developers, or anything like that. I'm talking about the average joe out there on the street. They don't bother to learn anything about it and those commercials for the software learning CDs just show how much people don't know about using a machine to do the work for them. They just point and click, know just as much about what's happening on screen as much as a man infected by ebola knows his surroundings.

Quote:

As I have said Windows is just a neccessary evil we have to live with. I'll offer myself as an example. I'm a web developer for a California-based company. So far I have successfully "influenced management to shift to Linux for our servers. But as of now we are still tied to Windows. Why? Because of the tools we have to use (and have standardized upon long time ago) runs on Windows and Mac. My department uses PC's, hence, Windows. Migrating to Mac will require a large monetary investment. But, I can assure you that, once Adobe starts to release versions of their flagship applications that will run natively in Linux there will be no reason for us to use windows. Of course, there are alternatives, like the GIMP, NVU and Flash4Linux. But, in all honesty, they have not yet reached the maturity and functionality that their Windows/Mac counterparts offer.

I agree with you here.

Quote:
I suppose we can run Windows apps through Wine, but there will a huge stability issue. since wine is still in the beta stage. And for all intents and purposes, stability is huge issue. Another example is the gaming industry. Most casual PC enthusiast, are in all probability hard-core gamers. Since their games runs almost exclusively on the Windows platform they have no choice but to use windows, even if they are aware of of the alternative. Again, its the stability issue. Of course they can run games in Wine, but how many NEW games are really stable in WINE? Very few. So Windows is just a neccessary evil many of us have to live with. But that'll soon change. VERY SOON!!!

That will not change. There are so many stupid people out there - I know them, and they refuse to switch to even a mac because they're irrationally afraid of it and they won't listen. These are the customers windows mostly dwells on, and that strategy is working - though more people a wising up its just not significant enough.
crdowner
Thank God for all the people who are not experts at working a computer. Those people keep me employeed. What genius do you know that knows everything about every piece of software that runs on Windows?

My point is that people who are computer illiterate are not necessarily morons. These "morons" may be experts in their chosen profession. I know I do not claim to be a lawyer or know how to build a house, etc. Even though I am an IT systems engineer, I do not claim to know everything there is to know about computers.

Give people credit for what they do know and remind yourself that you are not all-knowing.
ezekiel_rage
{name here} wrote:


Take into account the average computer user - these are the idiots. I'm not talking programmers, web developers, or anything like that. I'm talking about the average joe out there on the street. They don't bother to learn anything about it and those commercials for the software learning CDs just show how much people don't know about using a machine to do the work for them. They just point and click, know just as much about what's happening on screen as much as a man infected by ebola knows his surroundings.


Did you take into consideration that that is all that he needs to know in order to accomplish the task at hand?

That average "moron" as you like to call them, may only require that he knows how to use the word processor in order to write his dissertation for his PhD degree. Is he a moron?

You see to these "morons" a computer is just a tool they use in order to accomplish a bigger task at hand.

One good example is those who drives cars.

There are those that dont know what a differential is, or a crankshaft.

All they care about is if the car will bring them from point A to point B.

Are they morons?

You see, our lives may revolve around computers and technology, but to most others, a computer is just a tool. And as long as it works for them, they dont care what makes computers tick.
{name here}
ezekiel_rage wrote:
{name here} wrote:


Take into account the average computer user - these are the idiots. I'm not talking programmers, web developers, or anything like that. I'm talking about the average joe out there on the street. They don't bother to learn anything about it and those commercials for the software learning CDs just show how much people don't know about using a machine to do the work for them. They just point and click, know just as much about what's happening on screen as much as a man infected by ebola knows his surroundings.


Did you take into consideration that that is all that he needs to know in order to accomplish the task at hand?

That average "moron" as you like to call them, may only require that he knows how to use the word processor in order to write his dissertation for his PhD degree. Is he a moron?

You see to these "morons" a computer is just a tool they use in order to accomplish a bigger task at hand.

One good example is those who drives cars.

There are those that dont know what a differential is, or a crankshaft.

All they care about is if the car will bring them from point A to point B.

Are they morons?

You see, our lives may revolve around computers and technology, but to most others, a computer is just a tool. And as long as it works for them, they dont care what makes computers tick.

To properly use a complex tool, you should know the basic parts from your side of operation - not the internals(hardware), but the externals of the externals(software). If people knew those basics - which would basically be the desktop, cursor, taskbar, menu, window, and system tray(I left out those which most people can use by name), people would save that much more money when they call technical support, and they would ease technical support from people like this(though I assume that it'd be financially better even though they have a headache).
ezekiel_rage
{name here} wrote:
...people would save that much more money when they call technical support, and they would ease technical support from people like this(though I assume that it'd be financially better even though they have a headache).


That is just so sad Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I agree those people in your example are morons!

But those "morons" keep me form going broke.

I have not actually met those kind of people.

Most of my clients have a decent knowledge of computers (thank God).

They call me when it really gets too complex for them to fix.

And since they know that its too "complex" for them they dont argue with my rate.

Razz
simplyw00x
I disagree with the premise of this thread. You're flaming someone for proposing a view that is perfectly valid. Sure, he sorts to hackneyed criticisms ("Windows is slow" etc.) but that's because they're valid criticisms - Windows is demonstrably slower on comparable hardware than other operating systems.

As to the debate about how much one should know about computing in order to use a computer, I think that the answer is "far more than most people currently do". I don't think people reasonably expect to get behind the wheel of their first car and instantly expect to be able to drive it, yet for some reason they think this should be the case for computing. Microsoft (and, I'm sad to say, alternatives such as the GNOME and Ubuntu projects) have been steadily pandering to this desire for 'usability' at the expense of efficiency and ease-of-use. Whilst a GUI may be a far easier visual paradigm to grasp, in programmes such as file managers, it's an hindrance and a slowdown.

I equally don't think that a computer user should have to know about RAM and HD and LCD and all these bits, because in the everyday course of using their machines they'll never have to worry about them. To return to my analogy, most car users couldn't tell a catalytic converter from a spark plug. Nor should they all use CLI and keyboards with no labels. But there should be a minimum amount of time spent simply learning how to do things before leaping into computing, and companies shouldn't have to pander to people who can't be bothered to learn.
{name here}
Quote:
But those "morons" keep me form going broke.

True.

simplyw00x wrote:
I disagree with the premise of this thread. You're flaming someone for proposing a view that is perfectly valid. Sure, he sorts to hackneyed criticisms ("Windows is slow" etc.) but that's because they're valid criticisms - Windows is demonstrably slower on comparable hardware than other operating systems.

I can say that there are some valid criticisms there. However, there are quite a few parts that don't add up, escpecially the web design part, which clearly shows he hasn't tried Linux, which would give him almost all the little niche things he wants out of an OS and even more. For example, a modern free OS that can run 64-bit applications and be upgraded.
simplyw00x
One thing I just noticed about the original post:

Quote:
The man does have (or so he claims) an MSCE. So he probably knows what he is talking about.


LOL.

Did you hear about that 9-year-old Indian kid with an MSCE? You know, implying it's not that hard to get? You know, because it's a pretty fake qualification? You know, like, meaningless? I'd actually trust someone less if they publicly admit to having an MS certification...
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