| Quote: |
For those who believe and do righteous deeds, death is not something to be feared. Although, in appearance, it is decomposition and seems to extinguish the light of life and to destroy pleasures, in fact, it is a discharge from the heavy duties of the worldly life. It is a changing of residence and transferring of the body, as well as an invitation to, and the beginning of, the everlasting life. As the world is continually enlivened through acts of creation and predetermination on the one hand, so, on the other, it is continually being stripped of life through other cycles of creation, determination and wisdom. The dying of plants, the simplest level of life, proves itself a work of Divine artistry, like their living, but more perfect and better designed. When the stone of a fruit, its seed, dies under the ground, it seems to decompose and rot away into the soil. But in fact it undergoes a perfect chemical process, passes through predetermined states of re-formation and ultimately grows again into an elaborate, new tree. That is, the death of a seed is the beginning of a new tree, a new, more perfect and elaborate life.
Since the death of fruits and vegetables and animal flesh in the stomach of man causes them to rise to the degree of human life, their death in this sense can be regarded as more perfect than their lives. Since the dying of plants, which are the simplest level of life, is so perfect and serves so great a purpose, the dying of human beings, who are the highest level of life, must be much more perfect and serve a still greater purpose, for man having gone underground, will certainly be brought into an eternal life.
Death discharges man from the hardships of worldly life, which is a turbulent, suffocating, narrow dungeon of space and gradually becomes harder through old age and afflictions, and admits him into the infinitely wide circle of the mercy of the Eternal, Beloved One, where he may enjoy the everlasting company of his beloved ones and the consolation of a happy, eternal life. |
what you think about death ?
it is a salvation for the believers.
But are you ready for it?You know, there's more than one perspective on what happens after death. -_- Not everyone believes that when we die we go before a holy tribal council and get judged for everything we did when we were alive, then mingle around in a cloudy Grecian-inspired setting with other dead people - or burn in a lake of fire with them. Billions believe that we don't, including all non-theists. And it's not only the non-religious that don't believe in post-mortem judgement, there are dozens and dozens of religions that don't have the concept, including some of the largest in the world - Hinduism, Bhuddism and more. And billions believe in some form of reincarnation or that death is simply the end.
Peter Pan once summed it best for me. "To die will be an awfully big adventure."
I have made peace with dying. If I were to die today at this moment, I would have no qualms. Not that I would want to die so young though. I've experienced a lot, but there is always more. Jet Li also summed it up once fairly good for me too.
| Quote: |
| "No matter how famous, how important, how powerful we are, no one has been born that won't die," he says, then chuckles. "Maybe people will think Jet Li is crazy, but I'm prepared to die. If you understand that no one knows when this will happen, maybe today, maybe tomorrow, then you cherish right now. If you do that, you care more about your family, your daughter, your wife. Then if tomorrow you die [he snaps his fingers], it's okay. I've already cared about every moment, every day." |
Death is part of life. And on that note, in my opinion, a funny quote that pertains to the more religious people. Although I don't remember who stated it. "Everyone wants to get into Heaven, but no one wants to die." No, because (although it's cliche) - death is only the beginning of life.
Hey good question... death is not the thing to be feared in life, not only death and others too.. Becoz we know that after we die we will go to heaven as jesus as promised us.. If we beleive in him and his words and put into action ... Then we will go to heaven... So i m not worried about death. Death is the way for heaven for christ followers... People , dont fear for death instead have fear in god...
A greek philosopher summed up my view eloquently :
Why fear death for where death is I am not and where I am death is not.
Regards
Chris
I'm not so much afraid of dying, I'm more afraid of how and more importantly, when. I don't believe that if I kill enough evil people I will be given virgins or anything like that.
I value life. It's a shame more people don't, there would be less voilence and murder in this world. 
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| I value life. It's a shame more people don't, there would be less voilence and murder in this world. |
me too.
i think all universe as a mass is not valuable than a fly.Because fly has life.Well.. I'm not ready to die yet, its because there are lot of things that I must do and fulfill before I die. Btw I value life too. 
"Conquer your Fear! Take it! It's Yours!" - Brad Pitt I still fear death because there are so many things I still want to do.
Once I've accomplished them I hope would accept death, but I certainly wouldn't go seeking it.
| palavra wrote: |
| Quote: | For those who believe and do righteous deeds, death is not something to be feared. Although, in appearance, it is decomposition and seems to extinguish the light of life and to destroy pleasures, in fact, it is a discharge from the heavy duties of the worldly life. It is a changing of residence and transferring of the body, as well as an invitation to, and the beginning of, the everlasting life. As the world is continually enlivened through acts of creation and predetermination on the one hand, so, on the other, it is continually being stripped of life through other cycles of creation, determination and wisdom. The dying of plants, the simplest level of life, proves itself a work of Divine artistry, like their living, but more perfect and better designed. When the stone of a fruit, its seed, dies under the ground, it seems to decompose and rot away into the soil. But in fact it undergoes a perfect chemical process, passes through predetermined states of re-formation and ultimately grows again into an elaborate, new tree. That is, the death of a seed is the beginning of a new tree, a new, more perfect and elaborate life.
Since the death of fruits and vegetables and animal flesh in the stomach of man causes them to rise to the degree of human life, their death in this sense can be regarded as more perfect than their lives. Since the dying of plants, which are the simplest level of life, is so perfect and serves so great a purpose, the dying of human beings, who are the highest level of life, must be much more perfect and serve a still greater purpose, for man having gone underground, will certainly be brought into an eternal life.
Death discharges man from the hardships of worldly life, which is a turbulent, suffocating, narrow dungeon of space and gradually becomes harder through old age and afflictions, and admits him into the infinitely wide circle of the mercy of the Eternal, Beloved One, where he may enjoy the everlasting company of his beloved ones and the consolation of a happy, eternal life. |
what you think about death ?
it is a salvation for the believers.
But are you ready for it? |
Good question perhaps this is best answered by another question that everyone can ask themselves. It is the fear of death which focuses the mind. There are those who contantly dwell upon it and that is not good for the spirit. However to put this in to context, this is a fear of a day or time which we will ever see or experience on earth. So I would divert the mind to ages past, do any of you fear or know someone who fears the time when dinosaurs ruled the earth as alleged, or do you live in fear of Elizabethian times, or the days before you were born. I was born in 1946 but I've never lost a wink of sleep over 1945 so why should I live in fear of the day after I die?Why fear the uncontrolable, we will die so to fear death is illogical. I like to tempt death I love to do sports where death is a very real possibility, I dont want to die but it gives a certain rush to know I could... and that one screw up and I could die.. makes me realise my life is my own to live how I want to live it.
We have about 80 years on this Earth, ive used 17 up I intend to fully use what remains.
| palavra wrote: |
i think all universe as a mass is not valuable than a fly.Because fly has life. |
So you'd sacrifice the entire universe as we know it to save a fly? I wouldn't sacrifice my last bite of cheeseburger for a stinkin' fly! | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| palavra wrote: |
i think all universe as a mass is not valuable than a fly.Because fly has life. |
So you'd sacrifice the entire universe as we know it to save a fly? I wouldn't sacrifice my last bite of cheeseburger for a stinkin' fly! |
yes
actually i don't think like this everytime.
especially when i was disturbed by mosqutios.
but life is the most wonderful miracle of God.
nobody can give life to a creature except God.
nobody can create even a fly or a cell.Fear of Death...
its different for 2 different type of people..
1) Evil doer..
2) A pious person..
This is how the Holy Quran says it..
About people who do good:
Surah "The Believers"
Verse "102"
| Quote: |
| Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain salvation. |
About people who do evil:
Surah "The Believers"
Verse "103"
| Quote: |
| But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in Hell will they abide. |
Makes it clear now doesnt it. People who do evil, end up in Hell. But people who do good, end up in Heaven..
Now... almost all of the religion on this planet have a concept of Heaven and Hell...
A person who believes in Life After Death will surely do good deeds. And if he has commited almost no bad deed at all, he will not be afraid of death, for he will know (Because of his belief in Allah) that all his good deeds will not go to waste, and that he will also know that everyine n the face of this planet has to die one day. Noone will return to this planet again. Like the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) said that this planet is just like a shade providing tree for a traveller. The traveller waits here for a little rest and then moves along his journey leaving the tree behind...
On the other hand, if a person does believe in Life After Death but still has not done good deeds. He knows that he has commited more eveil than good. a person like this will surely be afraid of death, for he will know that if he died before getting his goods deeds higher than his bad deeds, he will end up in Hell. A person like this will also know that he is not to return to this planet again and will never get a chance to cover for his evil deeds.
But for the above mentioned theories, one has to believe in a religion that is truely Holy. A religion that was sent with to a Prophet and along with it was sent a Holy Book. A religion that is not humna created or mingled with, by humans. A religion whos beliefs are uniform globally and whos Holy Book has uniformity globally. A religion that has not been changed since the revelation of its first verse till today.. A religion that does not concern multiple lives for one person. Because multiple lives, people will think that they will be able to make p for their deeds in the next life. A religion thats pure.. A relgion like Islam I dont fear death... not at all.
After all it should (at least scientifically) just mean you stop excist. And that does not really scare me.
The way of death is way more scary. When I die I would prefer to just die in an instant. A long and painfull death, that´s the only thing I fear about death.
| arkebuzer wrote: |
I dont fear death... not at all.
After all it should (at least scientifically) just mean you stop excist. And that does not really scare me.
The way of death is way more scary. When I die I would prefer to just die in an instant. A long and painfull death, that´s the only thing I fear about death. |
and the after life???
life after death???
dont you believe that you will be once again brought to life ??
and if you dont.... doesnt that make life totally meaningless ??
dont you think you should be prepared before you die.. like so that when you are judged in the Hereafter on your actions... dont you want to be sent into Heaven...
by the way... i prefer bein martyred... killed in a battle against non-believers....or killed while trying to save the life of a fellow being... people who are martyred, had a good intention and were an overall good person.. Allah sends them straight to Heaven ! becaused they valued someone elses life above their own.... | salman_500 wrote: |
and the after life???
life after death???
dont you believe that you will be once again brought to life ?? |
No.
| Quote: |
and if you dont.... doesnt that make life totally meaningless ?? |
No
| Quote: |
| dont you think you should be prepared before you die.. like so that when you are judged in the Hereafter on your actions... dont you want to be sent into Heaven... |
No
Chris. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| I'm not so much afraid of dying, I'm more afraid of how and more importantly, when. |
I was about to say the exact same thing.
I do not fear my death (in an inquisitive kind of way I am looking forward to knowing the answers). BUT - I would really like to die as peacefully and as painlessly as possible. Hopefully when I am happy with my lot and content to go on to whatever may be or may not be waiting for me.
I am very intrigued by death. I mean, of course death could just be the end of my existence but it is just such a hard concept to get your head around. No consciousness, no thoughts and no feelings – just nothing. Weird!
Some people say it will just be like being asleep but even when you are asleep you have a level of awareness and you only know you have been asleep when you wake up.
Oh my, one of those conversations that needs some like-minded friends and copious amounts of alcohol to reach any kind of conclusion.
Interesting topic though. | Bikerman wrote: |
| salman_500 wrote: | | and if you dont.... doesnt that make life totally meaningless ?? |
No
Chris. |
For once I'm on the Muslims' side!
What *IS* the meaning to life if life is futile and annihilation inevitable? | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: | | salman_500 wrote: | | and if you dont.... doesnt that make life totally meaningless ?? |
No
Chris. |
For once I'm on the Muslims' side!
What *IS* the meaning to life if life is futile and annihilation inevitable? |
Why is life futile and annihilation inevitable just because Allah doesn't exist?The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger?
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger? |
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret the universe and find meaning in it. Just because you lack the imagination to see how that can be done with the need for a deity does not mean that everyone else suffers the same intellectual deficiency.
Furthermore, the existence or nonexistence of any afterlife is not dependent on the existence or nonexistence of any deity. There may be an afterlife, but one just as "meaningless" as this life - if you insist on seeing this life as meaningless. Or the afterlife may simply be an endless cycle of reincarnation. There are an infinite number of possibilites for an "afterlife". | Indi wrote: |
| mike1reynolds wrote: | The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger? |
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret the universe and find meaning in it. Just because you lack the imagination to see how that can be done with the need for a deity does not mean that everyone else suffers the same intellectual deficiency. |
Well, what are one or two of those infinite possibilites?
| Indi wrote: |
| Furthermore, the existence or nonexistence of any afterlife is not dependent on the existence or nonexistence of any deity. |
That was the thrust of my post that you replied to.
| Indi wrote: |
| There may be an afterlife, but one just as "meaningless" as this life - if you insist on seeing this life as meaningless. Or the afterlife may simply be an endless cycle of reincarnation. There are an infinite number of possibilites for an "afterlife". |
I was specifically referring to reincarnation. | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Indi wrote: | | mike1reynolds wrote: | The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger? |
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret the universe and find meaning in it. Just because you lack the imagination to see how that can be done with the need for a deity does not mean that everyone else suffers the same intellectual deficiency. |
Well, what are one or two of those infinite possibilites? |
Go with Buddhist and Judaistic, to start. Saves me having to make one up on the fly, or try to explain a more esoteric one. The first is atheistic and seeks meaning by means of self-improvement towards personal "enlightenment". The second is monotheistic and seeks meaning by creating a struggle between "good" and "evil", of which we are an integral part. If you want more atheist ideologies, you can look up Jainism or Humanistic Jews, or for kicks, Raëlians and Scientologists. And that's not even touching on the countless secular philosophies.
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Indi wrote: | | Furthermore, the existence or nonexistence of any afterlife is not dependent on the existence or nonexistence of any deity. |
That was the thrust of my post that you replied to. |
Then what was this about?: "When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time." A red herring? An atheist may believe in an afterlife, or they may not. The only thing that defines an atheist is the absence of a belief in a god or gods. You can be an atheist and believe in an afterlife, or you can be a mono/poly-theist and not believe in one. | Indi wrote: |
| mike1reynolds wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | mike1reynolds wrote: | The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger? |
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret the universe and find meaning in it. Just because you lack the imagination to see how that can be done with the need for a deity does not mean that everyone else suffers the same intellectual deficiency. |
Well, what are one or two of those infinite possibilites? |
Go with Buddhist and Judaistic, to start. |
They both believe in an after life and reincarnation. You keep changing the subject back to your pet peeve, God. The subject of meaning to life rests on belief in that life being infinite. Without this, if life is finite, then there can be only ephemeral transiant meaning to life which will eventually fail one as a support.
| Indi wrote: |
| mike1reynolds wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | Furthermore, the existence or nonexistence of any afterlife is not dependent on the existence or nonexistence of any deity. |
That was the thrust of my post that you replied to. |
Then what was this about?: "When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existential views at that time." A red herring? |
I was speaking for myself personally. How is that a red herring? While I was an atheist, and that was how I labeled myself, being an atheist isn't what made me depressed, it was annihilation that made me depressed. | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Indi wrote: | | mike1reynolds wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | mike1reynolds wrote: | The issue is belief/disbelief in life after death, not God. When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existantial views at that time.
If you don't believe in life after death how can you find any more meaning to life than Camus' The Stranger? |
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret the universe and find meaning in it. Just because you lack the imagination to see how that can be done with the need for a deity does not mean that everyone else suffers the same intellectual deficiency. |
Well, what are one or two of those infinite possibilites? |
Go with Buddhist and Judaistic, to start. |
They both believe in an after life and reincarnation. You keep changing the subject back to your pet peeve, God. The subject of meaning to life rests on belief in that life being infinite. Without this, if life is finite, then there can be only ephemeral transiant meaning to life which will eventually fail one as a support. |
God is my pet peeve? ^_^; Try again.
As i said, there are an infinite number of ways that you can find meaning in the universe. Believing in an afterlife and/or reincarnation is just one set of possibilites. You don't need either of those things to find meaning. You don't even need anything external at all. You can make your own meaning.
Alright, you lack the ability to find meaning within yourself. We get that. But that doesn't mean that external crutches are necessary for everyone. Just because someone doesn't know what comes next - or they assume nothing comes next - doesn't imply they should be afraid, or fall apart psychically, as you seem to think they will.
If you don't know what comes after death, what logic is there in fearing it? Death probably can't be avoided, so you have four options: accept it, ignore it, fear it or fight it. Of those four options, the only one that makes no logical sense is to fear it. If you accept it, then you can still live a full and productive life unburdened by the thought of it. If you ignore it, the same is true - the only difference is that it means that you will be unprepared for death when it happens, but so what? You'll be dead, who cares if you were ready beforehand or not? If you fight it, you may succeed, and even if not, you may increase human knowledge so that someday someone might succeed. But fearing it gains you nothing - you live your life in fear and leave without doing anything really useful for whoever comes after.
The same arguments hold for someone who believes that death is oblivion. You can either ignore it (which is not really intellectually interesting, but a valid choice nonetheless), you can fight it or you can accept it. You seem to think that accepting it means that you just haven't bothered to think it through long enough or deep enough - that any philosophy based on that choice is vacuous by default. *shrug* Whatever. That logic stinks of begging the question to me, but to each her own. i could point out how morally and philosophically bankrupt the concepts behind most major religions are. Doesn't make them any more less or right than me.
What do you want by asking me to list alternate philosophies? You want a bunch of other people's philosophies on life and death - ones that don't involve an afterlife plane or reincarnation - so you can just tell them all they're wrong? Stupid? Or that you've thought it all through better than them, and thus their concepts are implicitly inferior? You don't seriously think i'm going to help you do that, do you? If you want to frag off about how intellectually superior your philosophy of life and what comes next is, you're on your own.
Suffice it to say there are an innumerable amount of philosophies of life and death that do not require the existence of any afterlife or even reincarnation in any form. As evidence of that, i point to the billions who have managed to live over the millenia without psychically collapsing under the existential load of their beliefs (or lack thereof). Did most of them simply never consider the ramifications of their beliefs? Sure. But many did, and they formulated many diverse philosophies that you're free to read up on if you really care about finding out about them. If you just want to frag them and assert your philosophy as superior, hey, it's your time to waste.
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Indi wrote: | | mike1reynolds wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | Furthermore, the existence or nonexistence of any afterlife is not dependent on the existence or nonexistence of any deity. |
That was the thrust of my post that you replied to. |
Then what was this about?: "When I was an atheist I use to say that I really didn't even care about God, it was disbelief in an after life that was the essential feature of my existential views at that time." A red herring? |
I was speaking for myself personally. How is that a red herring? While I was an atheist, and that was how I labeled myself, being an atheist isn't what made me depressed, it was annihilation that made me depressed. |
But what does being atheist have to do with believing or disbelieving in an afterlife? What point did that statement even have? Why didn't you just say "not believing in an afterlife made me depressed, and that's why i think the Muslim way of thinking is right"? Everything else but that was all just fluff that clouded your point. Hell, you didn't even mention anything about being depressed - you didn't even make any relevant statement at all.You can't give a single example. You go on and on and on and on... but not a single example.
Life is meaningless if it is not eternal.
I can't believe that you then changed the subject from eternal life to mortal life. What a lame ploy.
DEATH IS INEVITABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
I never hear people saying they are scared of the time before they were born .... pre-existance ( if thats even a word) ... can death be any worse than pre-existance 
I personally am more scared of the things I would miss by dieing than death itself , my sons becoming men is an example that springs straight to mind.... so I guess I am more scared of not living than death | tumbleweed wrote: |
| I never hear people saying they are scared of the time before they were born .... pre-existance ( if thats even a word) ... can death be any worse than pre-existance |
I don't believe in non-pre-existence. 
Seriously!I personally have a mixed view of the afterlife, partially the zen buddhist view of nirvana through self enlightenment and the other part the Otherworld as described by celtic myth and legend.
I do not fear death (and i never had) because I never feared of being "judged" as I never believed in the concept of heaven and hell or the Judeo-christian-islamic view of the supernatural and divine, even while I was being raised lutheran.
Even with my belief in the afterlife, I do not know what lies beyond death, if anything. But it doesn't frighten me. What frightens me is the when and how (like S3nd K3ys said, though theologically we tend to have opposing viewpoints:) ). Why waist the time being afraid of the unknown and when there is enough to worry about during life?
I don't fear death, I don't like it and I don;t won't it to happen and if I can do something about it I would. What I do fear is not knowing when its going to happen. It could happen tomorrow, it could happen in a 80 years I don't know. I'd like to know when its going to happen, I'd prefer a terminal disease then a shot to the head in a robbery. If I know when its going to happen, I can except it, be at peace with it and I could use my time left to do what I wonted to do but couldn't.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| I don't fear death, I don't like it and I don;t won't it to happen and if I can do something about it I would. What I do fear is not knowing when its going to happen. It could happen tomorrow, it could happen in a 80 years I don't know. I'd like to know when its going to happen, I'd prefer a terminal disease then a shot to the head in a robbery. If I know when its going to happen, I can except it, be at peace with it and I could use my time left to do what I wonted to do but couldn't. |
i like brave men
i think it will be very difficult
nearly impossible to get pleasure from anything if you know when will you die.
except or expect death will be interesting.
i think it is better if we try to find an answer
What is the meaning of death, and what does it demand from me?
why all we have to die?I don't fear death. I hope I don't die in the near-future because there are still things I want to do in this life. Although, I suppose that will always be the case.
| Quote: |
i never hear people saying they are scared of the time before they were born
|
The Celts used to morn a birth and cellebrate a death. This was because a birth meant a death in the Otheworld, and a death meant a person was going to the Otherworld.
As a Druid, I don't believe in a judgement when I die. I'll be going to the Otherworld and I'll be seeing friends and family who have already passed.
| Quote: |
the dying of human beings, who are the highest level of life, must be much more perfect and serve a still greater purpose, for man having gone underground, will certainly be brought into an eternal life.
|
I don't believe that humans are the highest form of life. Not everyone has a burial when they die. I would love to be cremated in the way the Celts used to be - on a funeral pyre, but I don't think the local council would aprove. So I think I might be buried in a special wood with a tree planted on top of me. I am in both awe and fear of Death. Probably because I dont put much thought inot what is going to happen after. I die, I cease to live, what more would there really be after that? That is why I fear death, it is an unknown, and until a person dies, you can never really know what happens after life.
http://www.rumi2007.net/rumi.html
| Quote: |
The night of 17 December is the holiest in the Mevlevî calendar, a night of union, a wedding night (Şeb-i Arus), when Mevlana departed the mortal world to become one with He who loves and is loved. It is not a time to mourn but to rejoice: At my death do not lament our separation...As the sun and moon but seem to set,In reality this is a rebirth. Each year thousands of people from the far corners of the world, travel to Konya in response to Mevlana’s call of 735 years ago:
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
|
some sufis in our culture call death as wedding night. Although I do fear death, it is only because I fear change. I do not know what waits for me after this life, if anything at all, and that scares me. I can not imagine being in any other state of being and/or consciousness than the one i'm in now. All of the questions come running through my head, where will I go, who will I be, will I be anything? It's silly to worry and fear what is inevidable, but nonetheless, it gets done. I'm a scared shitless.
Hm, I always though that:
a) if theres hell -> only my soul will bear the torture, since it cannot die, so even if there is any pain or anything, you should get used to it (maybe, Im thinking with "our" way, I dont know anything about pain in hell or anyother such place).
b) If theres heaven, then hell, itd be pretty fun and all.
c) if there nothing then thats still ok, thats just the end, I wont even feel anything.
Although I too fear the change, I love life and loosing it seems kinda sad to me. Thats atleast what Im thinking now, when im 80 years old, unable to work or play, sick, lonely then dieing might seem like the best option out there.
| c'tair wrote: |
Hm, I always though that:
a) if theres hell -> only my soul will bear the torture, since it cannot die, so even if there is any pain or anything, you should get used to it (maybe, Im thinking with "our" way, I dont know anything about pain in hell or anyother such place). |
St. Teresa had a visionary experience of Hell in which she was utterly immobilized in a filthy world full of creeping bugs and rotting stench, in which it felts as though her entire being was perpetually being ripped to shreds.
At least with physical pain it can only get so bad before you pass out or die. | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| c'tair wrote: | Hm, I always though that:
a) if theres hell -> only my soul will bear the torture, since it cannot die, so even if there is any pain or anything, you should get used to it (maybe, Im thinking with "our" way, I dont know anything about pain in hell or anyother such place). |
St. Teresa had a visionary experience of Hell in which she was utterly immobilized in a filthy world full of creeping bugs and rotting stench, in which it felts as though her entire being was perpetually being ripped to shreds.
At least with physical pain it can only get so bad before you pass out or die. |
And you believe that such a limitation would apply in hell ? Interesting.
Chris.That is correct, I believe that there is no limit to the pain one can experience in Hell. It is only here that pain has physical limitations. An animal can only experience so much pain before it simply decides to die. You don’t have that option in Hell.
| Quote: |
| That is correct, I believe that there is no limit to the pain one can experience in Hell. It is only here that pain has physical limitations. An animal can only experience so much pain before it simply decides to die. You don’t have that option in Hell. |
And you think that is the gist of what you posted above ? To me it looks like you were saying the opposite - that physical pain has a limit EVEN in hell....
Perhaps I'm misreading it....
ChrisUhm, is physical pain available in Hell? I mean you could get easily used to it, since your soul is immortal. But mental pain, a play on your emotions, seeing your beloved suffer or die or betray you. I meant that sort of suffering. Just think, your soul is immortal, you would probably stop feeling the pain after some time. But mental pain is different, it might make you go insane.
Ah yes, I was replying to a girl, that is why I focused on St. Teresa's description of eternally having filthy bugs crawling all over you. That doesn't phase guys so much and so Bikerman thought that I was just poo-pooing Hellish suffering! LOL...
Is death anything to be afraid of? Depends on what you think will happen after you die. However being afraid will do you no good therefore theres no point in being afraid. You cant escape death (like the film- final destination) and why be afraid of something you cant escape. Even if theres pain after death, such as in hell then it might be scary but why be afraid if you cant change what'll happen. just tell yourself that and you'll be fine and not afriad anymore. it worked on me.
I fear not death (= process of dying, lose life).
But I fear great pain.
I also fear death (= state of being dead) because I know nothing about it.
Why can't we know what's beyond death? That's the $1 billion question!
Why the mystery?
I read an interesting slant regarding hell. It was said by Arawn in the Mabinogion. "......many men believe that death will plunge then into a sea of fire where they must burn forever. So burn they will, until at last hey realise that even that fire is illusion, bred of their own guilty fears".
I do not not believe in hell. I believe there is a lot of truth in what Arawn said
wow thats kool. I agree with you. There is a lot of truth. So the fires were an illusion made of of their guilt and the sins they'd committed in life.
Some emotion is pointless. I mean theres no point in the emotion of fear sometimes. Being afraid of pain is we cant change it happening is stupid. If theres no point in being afraid then why is it there? it just makes us feel bad.
Fear of death is a product of evolution, as it is essential for survival. It's in our genes. If our ancestors were not afraid of dying, we wouldn't be here, cause they wouldn't have a reason not to jump from a cliff, play with lions... Those who are not afraid of dying today crash planes into buildings and stuff - they are not doing well in surviving and passing on their genes, either.
So actually, fear of death is a good thing if we don't want to become extinct. | Quote: |
| If theres no point in being afraid then why is it there? it just makes us feel bad. |
I think it's all down to the fear installed by church leaders. It was started as a way of controlling the populus, by making them too afraid of going against the teachings of the church.
It's a shame this fear of death has been installed in peoples minds. Followers of pagan religions do not have this fear. We are taught that when we die in this world, we are born into another world. One that is better than this one, where there will not be pain or fear. Evil cannot exist in this Otherworld. We will be reunited with those love ones who have already passed. Why should we be be afraid of dying when we have all that to look forward to?yes i agree but for others they think well maybe this isnt true and there isn't a paradise after death. My opinion is " imagination is as much a curse as a gift".
Its natural to fear death because any animal lifeforms that had no fear of death wouldn't live long enough to reproduce.
Just like you weren't aware before you existed, you won't be aware after you're dead. After all, you need a brain to process thought, your brain stops working then you can no longer sense the physical world and won't have any memory to remember a time when you were alive.
I still don't want to die even though death can't be all that bad, or good. 
| miacps wrote: |
Its natural to fear death because any animal lifeforms that had no fear of death wouldn't live long enough to reproduce.
Just like you weren't aware before you existed, you won't be aware after you're dead. After all, you need a brain to process thought, your brain stops working then you can no longer sense the physical world and won't have any memory to remember a time when you were alive.
I still don't want to die even though death can't be all that bad, or good. |
Animals do not fear death, they have no consept of it. What they do have is survival instinct.
I believe we will be aware of our previous existence when we die. Although the brain dies at death, that doesn't mean to say the spirit doesn't retain memories. | woundedhealer wrote: |
| I believe we will be aware of our previous existence when we die. Although the brain dies at death, that doesn't mean to say the spirit doesn't retain memories. |
To me that's like saying once you crash and melt your computer's hard disk, it will retain memories in some other form.
Human's hard disk is in the brain - once the brain is dead, the memories are dead, too. Spirits can't retain memories cause they don't have brains. The next step is to realise ghosts don't exist. | LovE-RicH wrote: |
| woundedhealer wrote: | | I believe we will be aware of our previous existence when we die. Although the brain dies at death, that doesn't mean to say the spirit doesn't retain memories. |
To me that's like saying once you crash and melt your computer's hard disk, it will retain memories in some other form.
Human's hard disk is in the brain - once the brain is dead, the memories are dead, too. Spirits can't retain memories cause they don't have brains. The next step is to realise ghosts don't exist. |
The spirit is not part of the body, it is capable of leaving it, even during life. If it is able to return to the body and gain memories of what it has seen or heard. The Russians used psychics who had this ability during the cold war. It's called distant viewing.
Memories are not only stored in the brain, they are also stored in cells. This has been discovered through organ transplants, where the recipient develops traits the donor had, like having a passion for a sport or pastime which the donor had, or suddenly liking a food or drink the donor liked.
There are also inherited or genetic memories. This can particularly be seen in the animal, fish and bird world, where they instinctively know where to go to spawn or mate and give birth. Some animals are capable of travelling hundreds of miles to a certain place which they have never been to. The only way they know these things are from the memories inherited from the parents. | woundedhealer wrote: |
| The Russians used psychics who had this ability during the cold war. It's called distant viewing. |
Maybe they used psychics, maybe they didn't... But there was never any serious evidence of so-called psychics really having any supernatural powers. --> I don't know if you heard of James Randi, he's a stage magician and scientific skeptic best known as a debunker of pseudoscience - he travels around the world and comes to anyone who claims they have paranormal powers* - and he tests them so that both the tested person and him agreed on the testing rules.
HE OFFERS ONE MILLION DOLLARS to anyone who proves they have supernatural powers! That's right! He's carrying a check for $1,000,000 and if the tested person proves he/she really has supernatural powers, he gets the check. He's been doing it since 1964 and guess what... he always showed that they had no such powers - many used magic tricks to fool millions of people into believing they had supernatural powers.
Here's a site about his million-dollar challenge:
http://skepdic.com/randi.html
Here's a video of him debunking a few of these people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo
And here's a link with more of his videos:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/james_randi_debunking_the_paranormal
I suggest you don't immediately believe any of these "supernatural" stuff - instead, you should request/search for evidence. Millions of people believing someone has such powers in NOT evidence. Millions can easily be fooled, which has been shown throughout history.
* This is a list of paranormal things by definition:
Dowsing. ESP. Precognition. Remote Viewing. Communicating with the Dead and/or "Channeling". Violations of Newton's Laws of Motion (Perpetual Motion Devices). Homeopathy. Chiropractic Healing (beyond back/joint problems). Faith Healing. Psychic Surgery. Astrology. Therapeutic Touch (aka "TT"). Qi Gong. Psychokinesis (aka "PK"). The Existence of Ghosts. Precognition & Prophecy. Levitation. Physiognomy. Psychometry. Pyramid Power. Reflexology. Applied Kinesiology (aka "AK"). Clairvoyance. The Existence of Auras. Graphology. Numerology. Palmistry. Phrenology.Theres nothing paranormal about Chiropractic healing, its a science.
Think of it as your spine being a ladder that all your major nerves climb down from your brain to get to the organs they're attached to. If your spine is out of alignment, your nerves can become pinched thus delivering less energy to the organ it is responsible for controlling. At first your body will cope fine with it, but after years less and less energy is delivered and serious health problems can occur.
Sorry if its a little off topic.
| miacps wrote: |
| Theres nothing paranormal about Chiropractic healing, its a science. |
No, it is not, unless you define what you mean in more detail. The original doctrine behind chiropractic is that of BJ Palmer and this is certainly not science. He used/invented concepts such as 'innate intelligence' which is a non-testable metaphor and thus unscientific.
| miacaps wrote: |
| Think of it as your spine being a ladder that all your major nerves climb down from your brain to get to the organs they're attached to. If your spine is out of alignment, your nerves can become pinched thus delivering less energy to the organ it is responsible for controlling. At first your body will cope fine with it, but after years less and less energy is delivered and serious health problems can occur. |
Yes, this is another idea invented by Palmer and his son. They explained it like this: | DD&BJ Palmer (assembled by me from various sources) wrote: |
| .......subluxations are misaligned vertebrae which cause nerve compression.....This interferes with the transmission of Innate Intelligence which should naturally flow from "above, down, inside, and out" to the organs.....The result is that the body would experiences "dis-ease" or disharmony. |
I'm sure you will agree that this is functionally almost indential to your own description (although Palmer uses the metaphor of 'stepping on a hose that slowed the flow of water to a garden' and went on to explain that if you take your foot off the hose, the flow returns to normal and the garden will flourish).
The problem is that it is a mixture of un-testable metaphor and pseudo-scientific conjecture. There is no evidence for this 'pinched hose' effect in the body and some chiropractors have abandoned this original model completely. There is no alternative sensible model for the treatment that I know of, so if Palmers model is incorrect then the principles of Chiropractic healing are not understood and, therefore, clearly can not be based in scientific method.
That is not to say that chiropracty is not effective or useful, but without a model of how it works then science is not a word that applies. On the other hand, if Palmer's model is taken to be correct then we still have a problem because some of the principle concepts are not testable.
Robert Mootz describes the un-testable concepts as 'vitalistic' in his research* and lists them in a useful table to illustrate.
*(Chiropractic in the United States:Training, Practice, and Research - AHCPR -1997)
Another major issue facing any attempt to put chiropracty on a scientific footing is that it does not lend itself to the normal methods used to measure medical effectiveness. The standard experimental methodology most often used is that of the double-blind test. These basically use the method/substance under test with some patients, and a 'sham' version known to have no medical benefit (placebo) with other patients. Neither the patient nor the Doctor/scientist can know which is which until the test is finished (hence 'double-blind'). Unfortunately this cannot be done here because chiropractic treatment involves a 'manipulation'; no sham/placebo procedure can be devised easily for this. Even if it could and it were possible to keep the patient unaware, there is no way that the doctor can be unaware, so no test of this sort can really be carried out. This means it is very difficult to get objective data on the efficacy of the practice and this is why it cannot claim to be scientific (since it cannot be shown to work easily, and even if we accept lesser evidence then there is still no satisfactory explanation of the mechanisms involved).
I am personally convinced that this argument effectively refutes any idea that Chiropractic healing can be considered science and I would, respectfully but emphatically, claim that it cannot be so considered until a satisfactory and testable model is forthcoming, tested by a satisfactory methodology which is at least comparable with the norm of double-blind testing in the field.It looks like the conversation might be straying from the topic (fear of dying, I believe) a bit. If no one has anything else to say about that, we can close this topic. (hint, hint) | HoboPelican wrote: |
| It looks like the conversation might be straying from the topic (fear of dying, I believe) a bit. If no one has anything else to say about that, we can close this topic. (hint, hint) |
Yep...nothing more to add from me....sorry to take it off track, but I couldn't let the last posting define a new science without comment :--)i believe that death is somrthing to be feared. it's something that is built into all of us as a way to keep us alive. no one wants to die except if they are crazy. We will all defend our selves and the things we love to preserve the way we have been living. Fear is a huge factor in death and fear is a huge motovator to get someone to do something.
| salman_500 wrote: |
Fear of Death...
its different for 2 different type of people..
1) Evil doer..
2) A pious person..
This is how the Holy Quran says it..
About people who do good:
Surah "The Believers"
Verse "102"
| Quote: | | Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain salvation. |
About people who do evil:
Surah "The Believers"
Verse "103"
| Quote: | | But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in Hell will they abide. |
Makes it clear now doesnt it. People who do evil, end up in Hell. But people who do good, end up in Heaven..
Now... almost all of the religion on this planet have a concept of Heaven and Hell...
A person who believes in Life After Death will surely do good deeds. And if he has commited almost no bad deed at all, he will not be afraid of death, for he will know (Because of his belief in Allah) that all his good deeds will not go to waste, and that he will also know that everyine n the face of this planet has to die one day. Noone will return to this planet again. Like the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) said that this planet is just like a shade providing tree for a traveller. The traveller waits here for a little rest and then moves along his journey leaving the tree behind...
On the other hand, if a person does believe in Life After Death but still has not done good deeds. He knows that he has commited more eveil than good. a person like this will surely be afraid of death, for he will know that if he died before getting his goods deeds higher than his bad deeds, he will end up in Hell. A person like this will also know that he is not to return to this planet again and will never get a chance to cover for his evil deeds.
But for the above mentioned theories, one has to believe in a religion that is truely Holy. A religion that was sent with to a Prophet and along with it was sent a Holy Book. A religion that is not humna created or mingled with, by humans. A religion whos beliefs are uniform globally and whos Holy Book has uniformity globally. A religion that has not been changed since the revelation of its first verse till today.. A religion that does not concern multiple lives for one person. Because multiple lives, people will think that they will be able to make p for their deeds in the next life. A religion thats pure.. A relgion like Islam |
True.Just according to the Word of God.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Only the Son of God, Jesus can save our souls from eternal punishment!
I don't think this is a good direction to be going in. it's not right to say if you believe in this religion you can go to a good place afer death, and if you don't believe, you will go to a bad one. I believe it is important how you live your life. People should do good things because they want to and believe it is the right thing to do, not because they are in fear of going to a bad place after death. A good deed is worthless if it is done out of fear of going to that bad place.
| Quote: |
| Because multiple lives, people will think that they will be able to make up for their deeds in the next life. |
My religion believe in multiple lives, and I do not know 1 single person who thinks in this way. We all make mistakes, that's how we learn. A
person who makes no mistakes has done nothing. Well, to be honest, I'm much more scared of life, than of death. I am pretty sure that after the death, I would just see things and the reality the way they are, not from my subjective point of view. And I have personally expierienced God for many times in my life, and I know that being with Him, is the most enjoyable state I could imagine. A very demo version of this I have also experienced. What should I be afraid of?
Sure, so why don't I just go and kill myself? I just believe that He knows much better what is good to me, including the day of my death, and has a very special and personal plan for me. I have actually nothing better in my life to do than to try fulfilling it. | the_mariska wrote: |
Well, to be honest, I'm much more scared of life, than of death. I am pretty sure that after the death, I would just see things and the reality the way they are, not from my subjective point of view. And I have personally expierienced God for many times in my life, and I know that being with Him, is the most enjoyable state I could imagine. A very demo version of this I have also experienced. What should I be afraid of?
Sure, so why don't I just go and kill myself? I just believe that He knows much better what is good to me, including the day of my death, and has a very special and personal plan for me. I have actually nothing better in my life to do than to try fulfilling it. |
By the way, are you a believer in Christ?
