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Why not php 5?





vinx_18
This is not a suggestion but a question. The reason I posted it here in this section because I would like to suggest to upgrade php to version 5 but it seems its not alright to suggest it. Why is it that the php is not upgraded to php version 5? What are the concrete reasons?
Hogwarts
It's been said before...

Also
Quote:
19) Upgrading PHP to version 5


Search before posting Wink
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vp-100653.html#100653

PHP5 would stuff up many scripts OTHER people are running on their sites... It's not worth switching as it will be more trouble then it is worth.
vinx_18
I'm sorry for not searching before posting. The next time I will post, I should search!Smile
garionw
Well hang on,

according to this post Bondings Said this:

Bondings wrote:

Changing to PHP5 would break a lot of scripts like OSCommerce and Xoops and also cause some sql problems. It's just not worth it. Also, for a complete stable version, better wait another year.


Now that post was posted on November 4 2005. If I'm correct, its been 13 months and 3 days since that post.

I don't use either OSCommerce and/or Xoops (or any other software apart from Wordpress) but I am 500% sure that there would have been a newer, more secure version of the software available now, that is PHP5 compatible.

and if they are still using an older version that isn't PHP5 compatible, it should serve as a wakeup call before they get hacked.
Bondings
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.
scotty
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Oh please let people on server two move to server 3 so we can lose the Apache restart! I know it isn't a big deal but a lot of people would be happy if that Apache thing could be avoided.
hack_man_
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Server 3??? OMG!!! Take me to your mothership!!!! Is that it confirmed? Straight from the horse's mouth? It is definitely coming??? *waits excitedly*

What are the major differences between PHP4 and PHP5? Surely it can't cause that much of a fuss to keep the existing version for now. But we will have to upgrade at some point, when lots of popular things stop working!
ocalhoun
hack_man_ wrote:
*waits excitedly*

*Has been waiting excitedly for how long?*

Let's take up a collection to get frihost a new server.
Just give us a paypal donate button, and a little meter to tell us how close to our goal we are, and I'm sure that we could get server 3 here faster...
Daniel15
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Will Server 3 have DirectAdmin? Or cPanel? Or something new (eg. Plesk, Helm, whatever)?
billybob
ocalhoun wrote:
hack_man_ wrote:
*waits excitedly*

*Has been waiting excitedly for how long?*

Let's take up a collection to get frihost a new server.
Just give us a paypal donate button, and a little meter to tell us how close to our goal we are, and I'm sure that we could get server 3 here faster...


Great Idea!
I cant really see any downsides to it, shouldn't take long to install and I'm sure there will be a number of members willing to donate....
LukeakaDanish
When server 3 arrives, can we, as scotty wrote, please get moved to it?

I would LOVE to have php5 on my account, mainly because its a requirement for MediaWiki, and I have wanted to make various wiki's, but been forced to use other services for that...

Also, (this has been suggested before) slowly transferring server 2 users to server 3 could get allow you to single out the person who runs the script that makes the server unresponsive at times.
Animal
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Erm... maybe you guys should stop getting excited. As far as I know, this is a long-term plan at the moment.
LukeakaDanish
Animal wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Erm... maybe you guys should stop getting excited. As far as I know, this is a long-term plan at the moment.


I'm already looking forward to Christmas, year 2016 Smile
SpellcasterDX
hack_man_ wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.

Server 3??? OMG!!! Take me to your mothership!!!! Is that it confirmed? Straight from the horse's mouth? It is definitely coming??? *waits excitedly*

What are the major differences between PHP4 and PHP5? Surely it can't cause that much of a fuss to keep the existing version for now. But we will have to upgrade at some point, when lots of popular things stop working!

No, it hasn't been confirmed, Bondings said it himself somewhere, I believe.

Waiting excitedly? Laughing

Major differences...variables have to be more precise. (ex: ['private'] instead of [private])

If they did upgrade to PHP5 on server 2, tons of scripts would stop working an d sql compatibility problems could also arrise.
simplyw00x
PHP5 is backwards-compatible, isn't it? I've never had problems using PHP4 scripts on my localhost (with PHP5). Having said that, ?I just use function_exists hacks on Frihost currently to fake PHP5.

Why do we need 3 servers? Why do we need 2? Why can't they all run the same thing, just with load-balancing. It's a bit out-of-order to shaft Frihost's oldest members by upgrading the newest one and not the oldest.
Marston
simplyw00x wrote:
Why do we need 3 servers? Why do we need 2? Why can't they all run the same thing, just with load-balancing. It's a bit out-of-order to shaft Frihost's oldest members by upgrading the newest one and not the oldest.
I concur.
DynamicNames
Many people are using PHP4 on there sites, I have been to alot of them. (Specifically, a type of message board people are using uses PHP4) However. as Bondings said, he is probably going to update PHP5 on a new server. So, why not make it that when you want to get your new hosting account, that you choose whether you want to use Server 3 (PHP5), or use Server 2 I guess (PHP4).
simplyw00x
Quote:
So, why not make it that when you want to get your new hosting account, that you choose whether you want to use Server 3 (PHP5), or use Server 2 I guess (PHP4).

Because I'm on Server 1. What if I suddenly want PHP5?

Quote:
Many people are using PHP4 on there sites

As am I. But php5 will break nothing (they were all developed on a PHP5 box - my computer). PHP5 is backwards-compatible.
{name here}
simplyw00x wrote:
Quote:
So, why not make it that when you want to get your new hosting account, that you choose whether you want to use Server 3 (PHP5), or use Server 2 I guess (PHP4).

Because I'm on Server 1. What if I suddenly want PHP5?

Quote:
Many people are using PHP4 on there sites

As am I. But php5 will break nothing (they were all developed on a PHP5 box - my computer). PHP5 is backwards-compatible.

There are problems I've found, mainly with added exclusive varibles like the $this variable, which breaks FlatForum.
DynamicNames
Quote:
Because I'm on Server 1. What if I suddenly want PHP5?


Ask the person that opened your account to transfer the information to a different server? I haven't done it before, but I'm pretty sure that it is possible. Considering that my friend did it with his domain once, I'm sure that it isn't really different. And as gratitude for doing that, maybe it should cost you some FRIH Points and some normal Points for making the person do so?

Quote:
As am I. But php5 will break nothing (they were all developed on a PHP5 box - my computer). PHP5 is backwards-compatible.


That is good, but again. Some things that I have found, ONLY work on PHP4. So, why not, make it that people can choose what server they want once they apply for an account?
reddishblue
Trust me, he is lucky he is on Server 1, I would do anything to get on it, also Frih$ are not exactly usefull for staff and points are just things that mark how active you are on Frihost if you have a hosting account.
Marston
DynamicNames wrote:
Because I'm on Server 1. What if I suddenly want PHP5?

Ask the person that opened your account to transfer the information to a different server? I haven't done it before, but I'm pretty sure that it is possible. Considering that my friend did it with his domain once, I'm sure that it isn't really different. And as gratitude for doing that, maybe it should cost you some FRIH Points and some normal Points for making the person do so?

Server 1 is/always will be more stable than a newer server, due to closed registrations. Server 1 also looks like it's going to be the only server at frihost running CPanel. People may not want to switch servers, and they shouldn't be shafted for that.
DynamicNames wrote:
As am I. But php5 will break nothing (they were all developed on a PHP5 box - my computer). PHP5 is backwards-compatible.

That is good, but again. Some things that I have found, ONLY work on PHP4. So, why not, make it that people can choose what server they want once they apply for an account?
The fact that PHP5 is backwards compatible makes it impossible for something to ONLY work on PHP4. It may have been the server you were using, or just you, but it's highly improbable that they would've messed up the backwards-compatibility.
garionw
Surely there must be some tool out there thats web-based and tells you if your site is compatible with PHP5. If there is, maybe Bondings could run some "get ready" for PHP5 promotion on the site. Much like Windows Vista's "Get Ready".


If you use open source free programs here on your account (That are up to date) then it must be PHP5 compatible, then theres only the small majority of people who use custom scripts, and they must have a 80% change of running with PHP5.


Besides, PHP5 must be more secure than PHP4, surely?
Daniel15
Quote:
but it's highly improbable that they would've messed up the backwards-compatibility.

Some poorly-written PHP 4 scripts don't work in PHP 5 (much like poorly written PHP 3 scripts in PHP 4).
snowboardalliance
Marston wrote:

Server 1 is/always will be more stable than a newer server, due to closed registrations. Server 1 also looks like it's going to be the only server at frihost running CPanel. People may not want to switch servers, and they shouldn't be shafted for that.


Yeah what will us server 1 people do?
Maybe when this future change happens the server 1 people should be allowed to vote on having php5 or something? I would be interested in the new features and I'm not too worried about the so-called "problems"
prashant
php5 is a good one use, can upgrade to php5 Idea
pashmina
using php5 might affect the other user i.e. the people who are using php4.
wumingsden
When we do finally get our new server, which is not in the near future, then I doubt you'll be able to choose which server you are hosted on (or which php version you account has).

It's a nice idea and all but it would probably cause may more hassle than it's worth especially with already-hosted members.
TeenZine
heres my sugestions since noobs shouldn't get the newest stuff weve been here longer and should have priority. My suggestion is Server 1 people (been here the longest) should be able to chose server 1 or 3 the people on 1 should use server 1 or 2 (and charge some like a 1000 frih$ if you want to switch to server3) and the newbies should get server 2 or 3

And It dosen't rely matter to me since im not hosted here but thats how I would handle it.
wumingsden
TeenZine wrote:
heres my sugestions since noobs shouldn't get the newest stuff weve been here longer and should have priority. My suggestion is Server 1 people (been here the longest) should be able to chose server 1 or 3 the people on 1 should use server 1 or 2 (and charge some like a 1000 frih$ if you want to switch to server3) and the newbies should get server 2 or 3

And It dosen't rely matter to me since im not hosted here but thats how I would handle it.


No one should get a priority (apart from staff members Wink )

In all seriousness, it would't be fair if only certain people were allowed to be moved/have a choice, therefore it will never happen.
paopao00
some programe can not run on php5
Marston
wumingsden wrote:
No one should get a priority (apart from staff members Wink )

In all seriousness, it would't be fair if only certain people were allowed to be moved/have a choice, therefore it will never happen.
Why should our loyalty go unrewarded? FriHost would be nothing without its members.
Animal
Marston wrote:
wumingsden wrote:
No one should get a priority (apart from staff members Wink )

In all seriousness, it would't be fair if only certain people were allowed to be moved/have a choice, therefore it will never happen.
Why should our loyalty go unrewarded? FriHost would be nothing without its members.

This is a fair and valid point. I suppose that if a user really wanted to transfer to the currently hypothetical Server 3, they could request a cancellation of their existing account then re-apply for hosting when we're giving out new accounts. However, as I said - this is currently a hypothetical. Bondings may not decide to invest in a new server, he may not use php5 - there are a load of variables. My advice to everyone who is getting all wound-up about php5 and the new server is this: Wait and see what happens.

If a new server is implemented, we will have to deal with user requests and preferences at the time it is instated. Until then, there are far too many variable to be second-guessing, so why bother? This entire thread is all about what might happen in the future, and I really don't understand why it's become such a hot debate.

But that's my personal opinion Wink
wumingsden
Marston wrote:
wumingsden wrote:
No one should get a priority (apart from staff members Wink )

In all seriousness, it would't be fair if only certain people were allowed to be moved/have a choice, therefore it will never happen.
Why should our loyalty go unrewarded? FriHost would be nothing without its members.


I completely agree, frihost would be nothing without it's members. However, I don't personally think user should get more of a choice. Some long-term members are the one's that cause the most trouble, and therefore personally, I'd like to give the advantage to te user that is a good contributor to frihost, without being a user that steps across the one once in a while.

Edit:
.... and also this may not even happen, as animal mention's above
Marston
^ Good point.

wumingsden wrote:
Some long-term members are the one's that cause the most trouble
Wink
Blaster
i want php5 only for the fact that you need it to support a type of wiki i want to use. So why can't you just update the version thats on DA?
Marston
^ Don't you "work" at another "webhost"?
Blaster
Marston wrote:
^ Don't you "work" at another "webhost"?

Yea they don't have php5 either..... i am actually starting my own and i'm making it have php5 Very Happy
wumingsden
^^

Back on topic please, otherwise this thread will have to be locked.
m-productions
all i know is, when i found out that frihost did not have php 5 i was very very upset, all my codes are made around php5 ( thats how i learned) and would take loads of time to fix =( so im hosting all my php files on a whole nother site, its kind of a mess, but i gata do what i gata do ( and the reason i need this accoutn here is beacuse the mail command in php for some reason dosnt work on the other host, but yet works here) its all a big mess, but if they ever got php5 here.... this would be the best thing in the world!

however the reasons said of why there is no php 5 is very understable, and sadlt enough, id have to agree with not changing it for now =(
garionw
I think it was mentioned before, but s there any chance we can get both php 4 and php 5 running, you could either have a .php extension for version 4 and a .php5 for version 5.

Also, not sure how possible it is, but a line or 2 in your .htaccess on which version you would like to run
Animal
garionw wrote:
I think it was mentioned before, but s there any chance we can get both php 4 and php 5 running, you could either have a .php extension for version 4 and a .php5 for version 5.

I'm fairly sure this isn't possible.
wumingsden
You can run php4 and php5 together sucessfully on the same server and there are a number of methods to do it. However, it's easily possible for the installation to go horribly wrong, which is probably why Steve doesn't want to do this.
Alias
Running php5 on server 1 and 2 will do alot of conflicts to those websites that are written in php4. Anyway does the server 3 of Frihost will be up and running very soon?
Boffel
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.


Lol... So thats mean when server 3 is coming, it will purhaps be a php 6 or 7 lol.
Daniel15
Boffel wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.


Lol... So thats mean when server 3 is coming, it will purhaps be a php 6 or 7 lol.

PHP 6 already exists, it's in beta Wink

Quote:
You can run php4 and php5 together sucessfully on the same server and there are a number of methods to do it

Sounds very interesting... Do you know of any articles on how to do this (for my own server)? Smile
Alias
Daniel15 wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.


Lol... So thats mean when server 3 is coming, it will purhaps be a php 6 or 7 lol.

PHP 6 already exists, it's in beta Wink


Really? What are the major changes?

The updates seems to be a bit too fast for me. Confused

However, I will still stick to php4 since most of free and paid webhosting company still use php4 as their main compiler.
wumingsden
Daniel15 wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.


Lol... So thats mean when server 3 is coming, it will purhaps be a php 6 or 7 lol.

PHP 6 already exists, it's in beta Wink

Quote:
You can run php4 and php5 together sucessfully on the same server and there are a number of methods to do it

Sounds very interesting... Do you know of any articles on how to do this (for my own server)? Smile


A simple google seach brought these results here, which bring up numerous results for different methods.
Daniel15
Alias wrote:
Daniel15 wrote:
Boffel wrote:
Bondings wrote:
Garionw, I will do my best to use php 5 on the next server (server 3). However, this won't be for soon.


Lol... So thats mean when server 3 is coming, it will purhaps be a php 6 or 7 lol.

PHP 6 already exists, it's in beta Wink


Really? What are the major changes?

The updates seems to be a bit too fast for me. Confused

However, I will still stick to php4 since most of free and paid webhosting company still use php4 as their main compiler.


Major changes:

  • Native Unicode support
  • More object-orientated (namespace support)
  • Safe_mode will be removed
  • Magic_quotes will be removed
  • Register_globals will be removed

In particular, the last one will break many badly-written scripts (PHP 3 scripts as well as some old PHP 4 scripts relied heavily on register_globals)

More information:
http://jero.net/articles/php6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP - Section on PHP 6


I personally use my FriHost account (with PHP 4.4.0), another web host (again, PHP 4.4.0), and my personal testing server (with PHP 5.2.0)

Quote:
A simple google seach brought these results here, which bring up numerous results for different methods.

I should have thought of searching Google Razz. I guess I'll try some of those methods later
... I wonder if I can have dual PHP 5 and PHP 6 Beta? Smile[/list]
wumingsden
Daniel15 wrote:


Quote:
A simple google seach brought these results here, which bring up numerous results for different methods.

I should have thought of searching Google Razz. I guess I'll try some of those methods later
... I wonder if I can have dual PHP 5 and PHP 6 Beta? Smile[/list]


Should be able too. I don't really know anything about servers though so wouldn't really know.
simplyw00x
Quote:
Running php5 on server 1 and 2 will do alot of conflicts to those websites that are written in php4.

No it won't. PHP5 is largely backwards-compatible and the error reporting makes it trivial to fix broken scripts. Anyway, it's not valid to stall at a particular version for ever just because your programmers are lazy. Versions move on. Deal with it.
Daniel15
simplyw00x wrote:
Anyway, it's not valid to stall at a particular version for ever just because your programmers are lazy. Versions move on. Deal with it.

PHP 4 isn't "old" as such, it's still supported and actively updated. It's once PHP 4 becomes obsolete (possibly when PHP 6 is released) that programmers will need to move on Wink

Having said that, I've moved on (for local development anyways), and currently use PHP 5.2.0 Very Happy
garionw
Daniel15 wrote:
simplyw00x wrote:
Anyway, it's not valid to stall at a particular version for ever just because your programmers are lazy. Versions move on. Deal with it.

PHP 4 isn't "old" as such, it's still supported and actively updated. It's once PHP 4 becomes obsolete (possibly when PHP 6 is released) that programmers will need to move on Wink

Having said that, I've moved on (for local development anyways), and currently use PHP 5.2.0 Very Happy


The version of WAMP that I use (WAMP server) comes native with PHP5, but you can download a plugin for PHP4, so each time I write a script, I make sure it's compatible with PHP4 and 5.

[offtopic] Daniel15, do you know why the Frihost Server Status Image is broken, I also tried the domain today and that doesn't seem to work as well Edit: The site works now, but the images still don't
Daniel15
Quote:
The version of WAMP that I use (WAMP server) comes native with PHP5, but you can download a plugin for PHP4, so each time I write a script, I make sure it's compatible with PHP4 and 5.

So it can use both at once? What a good idea Smile
I was going to make my server use both PHP 5 and 6 (as above), but PHP 6 didn't work well (every page had some error regarding UTF-8, and I couldn't figure out how to solve it Razz)

Quote:
[offtopic] Daniel15, do you know why the Frihost Server Status Image is broken, I also tried the domain today and that doesn't seem to work as well Edit: The site works now, but the images still don't

Yeah, it's a known problem at the moment. The server hosting it (not a FriHost server) had a hard drive failure, so the web host (I help run it) was moving to a new server. I was compiling PHP, but didn't add the GD library yet (which is why the image isn't working yet).
EDIT: Currently recompiling PHP, should be done in a minute or so
simplyw00x
Quote:
So it can use both at once? What a good idea Smile

It's lucky that Frihost isn't using Apache and that setting up both on that is next to impossible.... oh wait. Damn.
garionw
Daniel15 wrote:
Quote:
The version of WAMP that I use (WAMP server) comes native with PHP5, but you can download a plugin for PHP4, so each time I write a script, I make sure it's compatible with PHP4 and 5.

So it can use both at once? What a good idea Smile
I was going to make my server use both PHP 5 and 6 (as above), but PHP 6 didn't work well (every page had some error regarding UTF-8, and I couldn't figure out how to solve it Razz)


Technically not both at once, you have to go down to the icon, click on it and press "Switch to PHP4/5"

But we should get back on topic now Razz

I would imagine most software would be compatible with PHP5 and the ones that don't, well they should be updated anyway for security reasons.... and as for poor written scripts - If we post a few messages up here saying "We will be Upgrading in 6 months time, please make sure your scripts are compatible"
simplyw00x
Quote:
I would imagine most software would be compatible with PHP5 and the ones that don't, well they should be updated anyway for security reasons.... and as for poor written scripts - If we post a few messages up here saying "We will be Upgrading in 6 months time, please make sure your scripts are compatible"

Exactly. Give people fair warning and then upgrade. Perhaps have a single day of PHP5 so people can see what breaks, then a couple of weeks of PHP4 to fix it. Or a guide on how to install PHP5 on one's home computer for testing.
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