I know this will allow the usual number of replies that are "what are you trying to hide"? but how would you ever correct an incorrect score, since you would not know that it was incorrect or even that you are rated. Apparently, employers, courts, and private contractors can see it but you can't.
| Quote: |
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Without their knowledge, millions of Americans and foreigners crossing U.S. borders in the past four years have been assigned scores generated by U.S. government computers rating the risk that the travelers are terrorists or criminals.
The travelers are not allowed to see or directly challenge these risk assessments, which the government intends to keep on file for 40 years.
The scores are based on ATS' analysis of their travel records and other data, including items such as where they are from, how they paid for tickets, their motor vehicle records, past one-way travel, seating preference and what kind of meal they ordered.
The government notice says some or all of the ATS data about an individual may be shared with state, local and foreign governments for use in hiring decisions and in granting licenses, security clearances, contracts or other benefits. In some cases, the data may be shared with courts, Congress and even private contractors. "Everybody else can see it, but you can't," Stephen Yale-Loehr, an immigration lawyer who teaches at Cornell Law school, said in an interview.
In the Federal Register, the department exempted ATS from many provisions of the Privacy Act designed to protect people from secret, possibly inaccurate government dossiers. As a result, it said travelers cannot learn whether the system has assessed them. Nor can they see the records "for the purpose of contesting the content." |
For entire article go to http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/11/30/traveler.screening.ap/index.html
[/quote] I guess I fail to see the problem with it.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| I guess I fail to see the problem with it. |
You are not serious now, are you?
You think there is no problem in the US governments' sorting people according to what they ate on the plane to JFK?
And what comes next? Maybe they'll just shoot the plane down because too many people on board chose chicken instead of pasta.If it's in USA only, then there's nothing wrong with it
Last edited by ibay on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
I see absoulutly nothing wrong with this at all. What I do see a problem with is people who want protection, but when it is given, they reject it. I also don't see why you care at all, does it matter? What harm is coming to you? In fact, less harm will come with this then if it wasn't here.
that seems ok to me, It might prevent terrist attacks in the future.
It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
| tuncay wrote: |
You think there is no problem in the US governments' sorting people according to what they ate on the plane to JFK?
|
If it keeps the barbaric baby killers from killing babies, then keep track of when and where they shit as well.
| Quote: |
And what comes next? Maybe they'll just shoot the plane down because too many people on board chose chicken instead of pasta. |
How to make a bad post worse... (notice I didn't call him or the post stupid. 
) Honestly, the next thing should be profiling. Im not quite sure how i feal about it. They have the right to do so. I dont think it sounds very effective. I buy books about guerrilla warfare on amazon. Im sure im on a list for that. Kinda sad i suppose but its their right. Our govenment and country has alot to fear because of our actions.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
|
You are missing the point, again. There is nothing wrong with making assessments, but shouldn't a US citizen have the right to see his rating and to challenge a score? You do you firmly believe that a US government agency NEVER makes a mistake? With all the identity theft occuring, you think mistakes aren't being made?Thats ridiculous, how can one be rated a terrorist by what they eat? On planes most of the menu is chosen by the airline and is usually based on the local choices. So if one where to fly to the states from say Saudi Arabia, it's obvious the menu will consist of Halai Meat and so on.
| HoboPelican wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
|
You are missing the point, again. There is nothing wrong with making assessments, but shouldn't a US citizen have the right to see his rating and to challenge a score? You do you firmly believe that a US government agency NEVER makes a mistake? With all the identity theft occuring, you think mistakes aren't being made? |
Well, I suppose that we should have the "right" to see it, but not to challange it, it would be stupid then, everyone would contest it, and all the stuff would be even worse, we wouldn't have accurate information on any people we think might be terrorists, cause they would contest it. Also, what harm would come to you if they did have it a little wrong?And you're taking it too far... It doesn't really affect you, at all, does it? I'm sorry, but the government cannot tell everyone everything.
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| HoboPelican wrote: | | S3nd K3ys wrote: | It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
|
You are missing the point, again. There is nothing wrong with making assessments, but shouldn't a US citizen have the right to see his rating and to challenge a score? You do you firmly believe that a US government agency NEVER makes a mistake? With all the identity theft occuring, you think mistakes aren't being made? |
Well, I suppose that we should have the "right" to see it, but not to challange it, it would be stupid then, everyone would contest it, and all the stuff would be even worse, we wouldn't have accurate information on any people we think might be terrorists, cause they would contest it. Also, what harm would come to you if they did have it a little wrong? |
What's the point of seeing it if you can't challenge it? The whole issue is being able to challenge a score that is based on bad info. If someone steals your wallet and makes questionable purchases with your credit cards, steals your identity for criminal pursuits and YOUR score gets penalized for his actions, shouldnt you be able to contest that? | Soulfire wrote: |
| And you're taking it too far... It doesn't really affect you, at all, does it? |
| Quote: |
be shared with state, local and foreign governments for use in hiring decisions and in granting licenses, security clearances, contracts or other benefits. In some cases, the data may be shared with courts, Congress and even private contractors. |
It sure as hell CAN affect you! How many people work for or apply for work with contractors dealing with the US government? Federal, state and local employees? All of those peoples livelihoods could be at risk.^As it should be; those people are potential terrorists, and we should try not to hire such people.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| ^As it should be; those people are potential terrorists, and we should try not to hire such people. |
Those people could be YOU if someone steals your wallet. Or someone makes a mistake somewhere. That is why we should be able to see and challenge them. The government has never been infallible, why do you assume that whatever they decide now is going to be perfect?Sure, give people the right to challenge their score; then monitor the ones that challenge twice as diligently.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| Sure, give people the right to challenge their score; then monitor the ones that challenge twice as diligently. |
Thats fine. I could handle that. I just dont think it should be something that is hidden and unchangable. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Honestly, the next thing should be profiling. |
I think this person is one of the affectees of some terrorist attacks. or he is simply an extremist.
Such behaviour is shown by people belonging to weak and opressed nations.
I suppose he belongs to the USA, and if he and others like him still show such kind of behaviour despite being citizens of a superpower, it means they are quite unfamiliar with the real world.
While extremists in Muslim countries always stand exposed, these people hide behind others negative points and make them a reason to spread their hate propanganda.
Why would someone spend so much trying to justify his personal hatred in a place as odd as a Web Hosting Forum? | HoboPelican wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
|
You are missing the point, again. There is nothing wrong with making assessments, but shouldn't a US citizen have the right to see his rating and to challenge a score? You do you firmly believe that a US government agency NEVER makes a mistake? With all the identity theft occuring, you think mistakes aren't being made? |
Why should anyone want anyone else to have the right to know what you think of them? Seriously? It's like, I demand to know what my boss thinks of me, or to see my rap sheet down at the police station.
You're just trying to blow this (like so many other things) out of proportion.
I mean, if employers can get it, (I've been an employer), it can't be hard for you to get it for what ever reason you think you need it. Are you going to protest it and say you should have a lower score?
Childs play. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| HoboPelican wrote: | | S3nd K3ys wrote: | It's a necessary procedure that should remain in place. We have every right to know who is here and why.
|
You are missing the point, again. There is nothing wrong with making assessments, but shouldn't a US citizen have the right to see his rating and to challenge a score? You do you firmly believe that a US government agency NEVER makes a mistake? With all the identity theft occuring, you think mistakes aren't being made? |
...
You're just trying to blow this (like so many other things) out of proportion.
I mean, if employers can get it, (I've been an employer), it can't be hard for you to get it for what ever reason you think you need it. Are you going to protest it and say you should have a lower score?
... |
And you are trying to blow off anything that sounds liberal. Typical knee jerk conservative.
But you still are missing the point. Even if I can get it (illegally) I can't challenge the accuracy of it. It is there no matter what the reality is. I know you live on dissent, but try reading the thread to see what the point is.they try to gather as much as they can about the immigrant, and over such a long period, they gather all the bad stuff theyve done (minor or large) and accuse them of a terrorist attack
| HoboPelican wrote: |
| Even if I can get it (illegally) I can't challenge the accuracy of it. It is there no matter what the reality is. I know you live on dissent, but try reading the thread to see what the point is. |
Oh, so now you're trying to imply that some how the government can use that against you in a court of law and you won't be able to challenge it?
Sorry, fell off my chair and my hand got stuck on the LOL key while I was trying to get up from laughing...
I know what the point is. The point is the President has done something that has been blown out of proportion (as usual) for no reason other than it's Bush. I bet the left would do the same thing, just like they've already changed their stance on several key issues since they won the election. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| HoboPelican wrote: | | Even if I can get it (illegally) I can't challenge the accuracy of it. It is there no matter what the reality is. I know you live on dissent, but try reading the thread to see what the point is. |
Oh, so now you're trying to imply that some how the government can use that against you in a court of law and you won't be able to challenge it?
|
You aren't really that dense, so I assume you are just being SK-ish again. Too bad. Your only reply when your point is lost is to try to poke fun the other side, a very immature tactic.
Of course the score is going to have an effect on people, otherwise why would they track it. Is a federal contractor going to hire someone with a higher score and endanger their getting contracts?
Blowing it out of proportion? That's just rhetoric to hide your weak position. We are just discussing a decision and its effects. Is disagreeing with Bush in any way "blowing it out of proportion"?
It's sad that you have to make everything conservative vs liberal. The world isn't as black and white as you try to paint it.If handled wrong, this could cause serious issues, especially for people who seek employment with the government. No damn way I trust them that much.
