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Aliens and Us....
Over the past couple of months I have been reading extensively on this subject.. 30+ books so far.... What have I learned?
1) Since time began we have been coaxed to knowledge by otherworldly beings.
2) All the gods of all religions are said to come from the stars.
3) Adam n Eve were a genetic experiment to further our development.
4) Too many reliable witnesses have seen advanced flying craft from ancient times upto present day.
5) There is more than 1 species of ET that visits, at least 2 have bases here on earth.
Some things to think about....
Why do we squint at the sun? Shouldn't we have evolved a large brow to compensate for this? If gods are supposed to be omnipresent why do they need fiery chariots? If the Roswell crash was a balloon why did it take 3 trucks to move the wreckage?
An interesting excerpt:-
In 2002, Gary McKinnon was arrested in London under the Computer Misuse Act for having hacked (with relative ease) into numerous military networks, specifically to uncover information being withheld by the US Government on UFOs. He was extradited in 2006, McKinnon now faces up to sixty years in a US jail.
For McKinnon, the most important information he uncovered related to AFSPC. I found a list of officers' names under the heading "Non-Terrestrial Officers",' he told journalist Jon Ronson. `It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is, not Earth-based. I found a list of "fleet-to-fleet transfers", and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US Navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet.'
`On finding the first image on my PC,' Gary said, `the Earth – or at least a blue and white planet with no continents visible – filled two-thirds of the screen. Midway between the "camera" and the planet hung a cigar-shaped object with geodesic domes above, below, and to the left and right. I didn't see any rivets, seams or telemetry antennae.'
`Space is our final frontier,' declared Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin at the United Nations General Assembly in September 2004. `What a tragedy it would be if space became one big weapons arsenal ...'
Paul Hellyer has joined forces with three non-governmental organizations to ask the Parliament of Canada to hold public hearings on the extraterrestrial problem. He is to be commended for his courage in braving the ridicule which he knew would attend his speech.
`I'm so concerned about what the consequences might be of starting an intergalactic war, that I just think I had to say something,' admitted the retired Defense Minister. `The time has come to lift the veil of secrecy, and let the truth emerge, so there can be a real and informed debate, about one of the most important problems facing our planet today .. ,'
1) Since time began we have been coaxed to knowledge by otherworldly beings.
2) All the gods of all religions are said to come from the stars.
3) Adam n Eve were a genetic experiment to further our development.
4) Too many reliable witnesses have seen advanced flying craft from ancient times upto present day.
5) There is more than 1 species of ET that visits, at least 2 have bases here on earth.
Some things to think about....
Why do we squint at the sun? Shouldn't we have evolved a large brow to compensate for this? If gods are supposed to be omnipresent why do they need fiery chariots? If the Roswell crash was a balloon why did it take 3 trucks to move the wreckage?
An interesting excerpt:-
In 2002, Gary McKinnon was arrested in London under the Computer Misuse Act for having hacked (with relative ease) into numerous military networks, specifically to uncover information being withheld by the US Government on UFOs. He was extradited in 2006, McKinnon now faces up to sixty years in a US jail.
For McKinnon, the most important information he uncovered related to AFSPC. I found a list of officers' names under the heading "Non-Terrestrial Officers",' he told journalist Jon Ronson. `It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is, not Earth-based. I found a list of "fleet-to-fleet transfers", and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US Navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet.'
`On finding the first image on my PC,' Gary said, `the Earth – or at least a blue and white planet with no continents visible – filled two-thirds of the screen. Midway between the "camera" and the planet hung a cigar-shaped object with geodesic domes above, below, and to the left and right. I didn't see any rivets, seams or telemetry antennae.'
`Space is our final frontier,' declared Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin at the United Nations General Assembly in September 2004. `What a tragedy it would be if space became one big weapons arsenal ...'
Paul Hellyer has joined forces with three non-governmental organizations to ask the Parliament of Canada to hold public hearings on the extraterrestrial problem. He is to be commended for his courage in braving the ridicule which he knew would attend his speech.
`I'm so concerned about what the consequences might be of starting an intergalactic war, that I just think I had to say something,' admitted the retired Defense Minister. `The time has come to lift the veil of secrecy, and let the truth emerge, so there can be a real and informed debate, about one of the most important problems facing our planet today .. ,'
| Teezgaff wrote: |
|
5) There is more than 1 species of ET that visits, at least 2 have bases here on earth. |
LoL; really, I laughed out loud at that.
2 species of ET? that's believable. Bases on Earth? Laughable: show me where they are on Google Earth.
| Teezgaff wrote: |
| If the Roswell crash was a balloon why did it take 3 trucks to move the wreckage?
|
The government is not exactly known for efficiency; even a minor car accident will usually bring at least three emergency vehicles.
| Quote: |
| 1) Since time began we have been coaxed to knowledge by otherworldly beings. |
No, our knowledge we discovered on our own.
| Quote: |
| 2) All the gods of all religions are said to come from the stars. |
No, few creation myths have Gods coming from the sky.
| Quote: |
| 3) Adam n Eve were a genetic experiment to further our development. |
There was no Adam and Eve.
| Quote: |
| 4) Too many reliable witnesses have seen advanced flying craft from ancient times upto present day. |
No, there has been no reliable witnesses of UFOs.
| Quote: |
| 5) There is more than 1 species of ET that visits, at least 2 have bases here on earth.p |
There has been no aliens, on earth, ever.
As for the rest of your post. There is no government cover up of aliens. The only reason people say there is is cause there is no evidence that aliens has ever visited earth.
Aliens do exist, of that I'm certain but they are too far away to have been here or they would have been here and I don't mean watching "some undeveloped hairless ape with there primitive 'technology' that is too primitive to be any threat to us and is too primitive to be of consequence" (the aliens persecutive).
It isn't the nature of human beings to be aggressive and violent, it is the nature of life and any alien species would be aggressive and violent. Just look at what happened to the American Indians when the European got to the Americas, that would happen to us if aliens came to earth except they might actually be smarter (like brain size not in knowledge) and stronger than us. And if they came in the past it would have been to colonise or to build a military base.[/quote]
| The Conspirator wrote: |
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No, our knowledge we discovered on our own. There was no Adam and Eve. There has been no aliens, on earth, ever. |
Proof? Those are some pretty broad claims.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
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As for the rest of your post. There is no government cover up of aliens. The only reason people say there is is cause there is no evidence that aliens has ever visited earth. |
I agree with that. Anyway, how could just one government cover it up? Wouldn't there be sightings in other countries? Or do the aliens only visit the USA?
| The Conspirator wrote: |
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any alien species would be aggressive and violent. |
Not necessarily, what if they evolved as the only species on their planet? (Probably plant-like in that case) If that happened they wouldn't necessarily learn anything other than mutual cooperation.
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
Proof? Those are some pretty broad claims. |
The slow procreation of technology (until recently) and the periodic dark ages.
| Quote: |
| [quote="The Conspirator"]
As for the rest of your post. There is no government cover up of aliens. The only reason people say there is is cause there is no evidence that aliens has ever visited earth. |
I agree with that. Anyway, how could just one government cover it up? Wouldn't there be sightings in other countries? Or do the aliens only visit the USA?
| Quote: | ||
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Or theres a evil shadow government that controls every thing. There is! They put a chip in my head! Take this straight jacket off of my! Let me out! I'm not crazy!
Not necessarily, what if they evolved as the only species on their planet? (Probably plant-like in that case) If that happened they wouldn't necessarily learn anything other than mutual cooperation. |
Than it probably would never evolve intelligence as it wouldn't have the conditions to evolve it. Unless there engineered.
| Teezgaff wrote: |
| Over the past couple of months I have been reading extensively on this subject.. 30+ books so far.... What have I learned?
1) Since time began we have been coaxed to knowledge by otherworldly beings. 2) All the gods of all religions are said to come from the stars. 3) Adam n Eve were a genetic experiment to further our development. 4) Too many reliable witnesses have seen advanced flying craft from ancient times upto present day. 5) There is more than 1 species of ET that visits, at least 2 have bases here on earth. |
OK, so in your extensive reading I presume you have come across some actual evidence or support for these claims ? Presuming you were reading something other than Von Daniken or similar tosh, then I'd like to see some support from your reading rather than just bald claims without either reference or explanation.
| Quote: |
|
Some things to think about.... Why do we squint at the sun? Shouldn't we have evolved a large brow to compensate for this? If gods are supposed to be omnipresent why do they need fiery chariots? If the Roswell crash was a balloon why did it take 3 trucks to move the wreckage? |
We squint at the sun because the eye (like any similar optical device) has to trade off sensitivity against usability. If the optical range were to include bright sunlight then the sensitivity within the normal range would be diminished. This would not be a good trade-off since we rarely need to look at the sun. A large brow would merely obscure the top part of our vision which would have negative impact on our ability to perceive our envinronment.
The other 2 questions are not things I accept to start with so I'll leave them.
| Quote: |
|
In 2002, Gary McKinnon was arrested in London under the Computer Misuse Act for having hacked (with relative ease) into numerous military networks, specifically to uncover information being withheld by the US Government on UFOs. He was extradited in 2006, McKinnon now faces up to sixty years in a US jail. For McKinnon, the most important information he uncovered related to AFSPC. I found a list of officers' names under the heading "Non-Terrestrial Officers",' he told journalist Jon Ronson. `It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is, not Earth-based. I found a list of "fleet-to-fleet transfers", and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US Navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet.' etc etc etc |
McKinnon used this as a possible defence against extradition to the US. He figured that if he could argue a public interest defence then the extradition could be challenged in the UK courts. I would not take his protestations too seriously since he clearly had an agenda in making these claims.
Regards
Chris
| Quote: |
| No, few creation myths have Gods coming from the sky |
Tibetans and Hindus called the universe the `mother' of the terrestrial race.
The natives of Malekula (Nevi Hebrides) state that the first race of men consisted of descendants of the 'sons of heaven':
The Red Indians say that they are the descendants of the 'thunderbird'.
The Incas believed they descended from the `sons of the Sun'.
The Rapanui trace their origin back to the birdmen.
The Mayas are supposed to, be `children of the Pleiades'.
The Teutons claim that their forefathers came with the 'flying Wanen'.
The Indians believe that they descend from Indra,
Ghurka or Bhima—all three of whom drove through the heavens in`fireships'.
Enoch and Elijah disappeared for ever in a `chariot of fire'.
The South Sea Islanders say they descend from the god of heaven, Tangalao, who came down from heaven in as enormous gleaming egg.
One core is common to these genealogical stories : `gods came, chose a group whom they fertilised and separated from the unclean. They imparted all kinds of modern knowledge to them and then disappeared for a period or forever.
Karl F. Kohlenberg described what we are now left with' in his book Volkerkunde (Ethnology)
'...the riddle of the gods, the riddle of the origin of man, a chaos of traditions, the real meaning of which our limited erudition is still unable to explain.
The Sumerians had one single concept for the universe: an-ki, which can be roughly translated by `heaven and earth'. Their myths tell of `gods' who drove through the sky in barks and fireships,
descended from the stars, fertilised their ancestors and then returned to the stars again. The Sumerian pantheon, the shrine of the gods, was `animated' by a group of beings who possessed fairly recognisable human shape,
but appear to have been superhuman, indeed immortal. But the Sumerian texts do not refer to their 'gods' with vague imprecision; they say quite clearly that the people had once seen them with their own eyes. Their sages were convinced that they had known the `gods' who completed the work of instruction. We can read in Sumerian texts how everything happened. The gods gave them writing, they gave them instructions for making metal {the translation of the Sumerian word for metal is `heavenly metal') and taught them how to cultivate barley.
| Quote: |
| No, there has been no reliable witnesses of UFOs. |
ARMY OBSERVERS
LT.Col.Robert R. Staver, rocket expert; report of UFO's maneuvering at more than 1,000Mph over Los Altos, Calif.
Lt Col. Samuel E. Craig, circular object flying at great speed' below observer's Army plane.
Maj. Herbert W. Taylor, Signal Corps; a disc observed to descend, hover briefly, then speed out of sight.
Capt. Clayton J. Boddy and other Army Engineers; gleaming, 'saucerlike' devices seen operating over New Mexico.
Capt. J. B. Douglas, 489th Field Artillery; World War II observation of a UFO over Holland.
SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS
Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, discoverer of the planet Pluto and head of the armed forces search for unknown orbiting objects. In his report Dr. Tombaugh described a swiftly moving unknown object with rectangular ports or windows.
Dr. Seymour Hess, head of the Dept. of Meteorology, ,Florida State Univ.; a report of a powered disc seen in daylight.
Aerospace engineer and aircraft builder William Lear, who with his co-pilot sighted a flying disc from his executive plane.
Dr. Charles H. Otis, biologist, who sighted a formation of rocketlike UFOs.
Geologist John Zimmerman and civil engineer Charles Fisher, who observed two flying discs dive in front of an aircraft, then make tight loops around it.
Many other verified reports by engineers, including: Nathan Wagner, White Sands missile safety chief; C. T. Zohm, specialist on a Navy missile project; aeronautical engineer Paul R. Hill; Harold Lamb and three other Rocketdyne engineers Victor G. Didelot, aviation research engineer; Charles B. Moore', aerologist at White Sands, and J. J. Kaliszewski, researcher on a Navy cosmic-ray project.
AIRLINE PILOTS
American Airlines. Capt. Willis Sperry, whose plane was circled closely by a UFO, near Washington, D.C. Capt. Raymond Ryan, who pursued a UFO by AF instructions. Capt. Peter W. Killian, who was silenced by the AF after reporting a UFO encounter. Capt. Paul Carpenter and Capt. W. R. Hunt, verified reports on record.
Eastern Airlines. Confirmed reports by Capt. C. S. Chiles, Capts. William Call, Truman Gile, Robert E. Reilman and other EAL pilots.
Too name a few....
THE BEST ACCOUNT OF UFO VISITATION HAS TO BE THE GULF BREEZE INCIDENT. THE AMOUNT OF PHOTOS AND ANALYSIS THAT HAS GONE INTO IT, THERE IS NO DOUBT IT HAPPENED.
Being a pilot, military/officer/engineer dose not make a person a reliable witness.
And listing the few that have Gods coming from the sky dose not mean all.
And listing the few that have Gods coming from the sky dose not mean all.
| Quote: |
| Being a pilot, military/officer/engineer dose not make a person a reliable witness. |
So who would be a credible witness to something that flies through the sky which is an allegedly manmade/military vehicle?
An Astronaut?
Gordon Cooper, the ex-astronaut and pilot, disclosed in an interview with Lee Spiegel that in either 1957 or 1958, while he was project manager of the Flight Test Center at Edwards, a flying disc landed at the base. Cooper said that it was `hovering above the ground, and then it slowly came down and sat on the lake bed for a few minutes.'
A camera team in the area filmed the entire scene. `There were varied estimates by the cameramen on what the actual size of the object was,' Cooper said, `but they all agreed that it was at least the size of a vehicle that would carry normal-sized people in it.' `It was a typical circular-shaped UFO. Not too many people saw it, because it took off at quite a sharp angle and just climbed out of sight .It was definitely a UFO. However, where it came from and who was in it is hard to determine, because it didn't stay around long enough to discuss the matter.
All UFOs are one of for things, planes, natural phenomena, hoaxes or hallucinations. There would be a fith, unknown but that would not mean aliens.
All the people you mentioned are human and as such there perception and memory is clouded by beliefs, emotion and state of mind.
There has been many studies on eye witness testimony, every one has shown eye witness testimony to be flawed.
All the people you mentioned are human and as such there perception and memory is clouded by beliefs, emotion and state of mind.
There has been many studies on eye witness testimony, every one has shown eye witness testimony to be flawed.
| Teezgaff wrote: | ||
Tibetans and Hindus called the universe the `mother' of the terrestrial race. |
Irrelevant
| Quote: |
|
The natives of Malekula (Nevi Hebrides) state that the first race of men consisted of descendants of the 'sons of heaven': |
http://www.vanuatutourism.com/vanuatu/cms/en/culture/culture.html
| Quote: |
| The Red Indians say that they are the descendants of the 'thunderbird'. |
Completely spurious and misleading. Nearly all Native American Indian religion was heavily spatial in nature and emphasised spirituality in terms of spatial location and was closely linked to their agriculture, hunting. Their creation myths were largely similar and could be summarised as 'in the beginning, the world was populated by many people. Most were subsequently transformed into animals.'
http://www.crystalinks.com/nativeamcreation.html
| Quote: |
| The Incas believed they descended from the `sons of the Sun'. |
No they didn't.
| Quote: |
| The highest ranking deity of the Inca was a celestial supreme being who was first known under the name Viracocha, later also as Pachacamak. Originally, Pachacamak was a sky god of the Lurín Valley in central Peru whose name was later given to the sky god of the Inca. The main god of the Inca state religion was the sun god Inti, who might have been a nature totem of the Quechua or a god of a certain tribe. Another significant deity in the Inca pantheon was the thunder god Illapu who was apparently distinctive from the Tiahuanaco sky god, but was named after a thunder god of the central Peruvian tribes. Viracocha became the culture hero of the Inca who was said to have brought culture to people, then set off to the Pacific and promised to return. (Kulmar 1999: 101-109). |
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/South_america/inca_creation_myth.htm
| Quote: |
| The Rapanui trace their origin back to the birdmen. |
Wrong. Their creation myth states that Tangaroa came to Easter Island in the form of a seal with a human face and voice. The seal was killed but, though baked for the necessary time in an earth oven, the seal refused to cook. Hence the people inferred that Tangaroa must have been a chief of power.
http://www.siloam.net/members.aol.com/rex2kids/private/moai1.htm
| Quote: |
| The Mayas are supposed to, be `children of the Pleiades'. |
Mayan creation myth states that there were four gods in heaven and each of them sat on his chair, observing the world below. Then the yellow lord suggested that they make a man to enjoy the earth and offer praise to the gods. The other three agreed.
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/cordelia.htm
| Quote: |
| The Teutons claim that their forefathers came with the 'flying Wanen'. |
http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=tappan&book=european&story=teutons
| Quote: |
| The Indians believe that they descend from Indra, Ghurka or Bhima—all three of whom drove through the heavens in`fireships'. |
Which Indians ? The Hindu creation myth cites Purusha as the creator...
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/00875/text/IndiaC.htm
| Quote: |
| The South Sea Islanders say they descend from the god of heaven, Tangalao, who came down from heaven in as enormous gleaming egg.
One core is common to these genealogical stories : `gods came, chose a group whom they fertilised and separated from the unclean. They imparted all kinds of modern knowledge to them and then disappeared for a period or forever. |
That's not my understanding. Phillipine and other island myth states that thousands of years ago there was no land nor sun nor moon nor stars, and the world was only a great sea of water, above which stretched the sky. The water was the kingdom of the god Maguayan, and the sky was ruled by the great god Captan.
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/creation-phil.html
| Quote: |
| Karl F. Kohlenberg described what we are now left with' in his book Volkerkunde (Ethnology) |
Ethnology ? More like UFOlogy and claptrap! Another Vov Daniken I think....
'...the riddle of the gods, the riddle of the origin of man, a chaos of traditions, the real meaning of which our limited erudition is still unable to explain.[/quote]
Enough said!!
| Quote: |
| The Sumerians had one single concept for the universe: an-ki, which can be roughly translated by `heaven and earth'. Their myths tell of `gods' who drove through the sky in barks and fireships,
descended from the stars, fertilised their ancestors and then returned to the stars again. The Sumerian pantheon, the shrine of the gods, was `animated' by a group of beings who possessed fairly recognisable human shape, but appear to have been superhuman, indeed immortal. But the Sumerian texts do not refer to their 'gods' with vague imprecision; they say quite clearly that the people had once seen them with their own eyes. Their sages were convinced that they had known the `gods' who completed the work of instruction. We can read in Sumerian texts how everything happened. The gods gave them writing, they gave them instructions for making metal {the translation of the Sumerian word for metal is `heavenly metal') and taught them how to cultivate barley. |
Sumerian creation myth....in their own words!
In the first days when everything needed was brought into being,
In the first days when everything needed was properly nourished,
When bread was baked in the shrines of the land,
And bread was tasted in the homes of the land,
When heaven had moved away from the earth,
And earth had separated from heaven,
And the name of man was fixed;
When the Sky God, An, had carried off the heavens,
And the Air God, Enlil, had carried off the earth . . .
Mix the heart of the clay that is over the abyss,
The good and princely fashioners will thicken the clay,
You, [Nammu] do you bring the limbs into existence;
Ninmah [earth-mother or birth goddess] will work above you,
The goddesses [of birth] . . . will stand by you at your fashioning;
O my mother, decree its [the newborn's] fate,
Ninmah will bind upon it the image (?) of the gods,
It is man . . . .
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/SumerianMyth.htm
All in all, not the most accurate account I've met...
Regards
Chris
Teezgaff any book on ufology is going to have many misconceptions, half truths and lies. Ufologists are not even pseudo scientists there so bad.
I suggest you watch a show on the National Geographic channel called Is It Real, it give equal time to people on both side of the subject (what ever the subject is the episode) and most of the time the people against what ever the episode was about debunks every thing the supporters say. For instance the in an episode about ghosts, two scientists not only said that the balls of light in pictures taken at supposedly haunted sites where not evidence of ghosts but dust, they demonstrated it by shaking a dusty rug and taking a picture, in an episode about crop circles what pseudo scientists sad was evidence in in the way the wheat was bent (it looks like the bend has been stretched and knuckle in the wheat that looked like they blew) an expert in wheat said that they were the wheat to being flattened (trying to heal it self and stand back up).
I suggest you watch a show on the National Geographic channel called Is It Real, it give equal time to people on both side of the subject (what ever the subject is the episode) and most of the time the people against what ever the episode was about debunks every thing the supporters say. For instance the in an episode about ghosts, two scientists not only said that the balls of light in pictures taken at supposedly haunted sites where not evidence of ghosts but dust, they demonstrated it by shaking a dusty rug and taking a picture, in an episode about crop circles what pseudo scientists sad was evidence in in the way the wheat was bent (it looks like the bend has been stretched and knuckle in the wheat that looked like they blew) an expert in wheat said that they were the wheat to being flattened (trying to heal it self and stand back up).
Thanks for the insight Chris.. Being proven wrong makes us learn faster...
So back to the main subject... Have we been visited by other worldly beings throughout history?
The most fascinating account from pre-history has to be The Mahabharata with many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called Vimanas. The Mahabharata describes great wars in the skys, with some amazing descriptions of devasting weaponry.The text also enumerates 16 kinds of metal that are needed to construct the flying vehicle: `Metals suitable, lighare 16 kinds. `But only three of them are known to us today. The rest remain untranslatable."
More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc. 'Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology' From The Anti-Gravity Handbook by D. Hatcher Childress.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm#Ancient%20Writings%20tell%20of%20UFO%20visit%20in%204,000%20B.C.
Also flying craft are seen in great works of art:-
A disk shaped object is shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus - Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England - Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder. It depicts a classic, hovering, silvery, saucer shaped UFO shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus. What could have inspired the artist to combine these two subjects?
This painting is called "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". It was painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio. Above Mary's right shoulder is a disk shaped object. A man and his dog can clearly be seen looking up at the object.
Also unusual craft in the Pyramids..
Is that an helicopter (top left)? Some kind of plane (middle right)?
Also in the Bible there are numerous descriptions of chariots of fire. For example Ezekiels wheel. A good book on this is "The Spaceships Of Ezekiel" by NASA Engineer J.F.Blumrich.
Ufo's are not a modern day thing. Even while we watched birds fly and wished we could, man has seen large flying objects in the skies for centuries.
So back to the main subject... Have we been visited by other worldly beings throughout history?
The most fascinating account from pre-history has to be The Mahabharata with many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called Vimanas. The Mahabharata describes great wars in the skys, with some amazing descriptions of devasting weaponry.The text also enumerates 16 kinds of metal that are needed to construct the flying vehicle: `Metals suitable, lighare 16 kinds. `But only three of them are known to us today. The rest remain untranslatable."
More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc. 'Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology' From The Anti-Gravity Handbook by D. Hatcher Childress.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm#Ancient%20Writings%20tell%20of%20UFO%20visit%20in%204,000%20B.C.
Also flying craft are seen in great works of art:-
A disk shaped object is shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus - Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England - Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder. It depicts a classic, hovering, silvery, saucer shaped UFO shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus. What could have inspired the artist to combine these two subjects?
This painting is called "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". It was painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio. Above Mary's right shoulder is a disk shaped object. A man and his dog can clearly be seen looking up at the object.
Also unusual craft in the Pyramids..
Is that an helicopter (top left)? Some kind of plane (middle right)?
Also in the Bible there are numerous descriptions of chariots of fire. For example Ezekiels wheel. A good book on this is "The Spaceships Of Ezekiel" by NASA Engineer J.F.Blumrich.
Ufo's are not a modern day thing. Even while we watched birds fly and wished we could, man has seen large flying objects in the skies for centuries.
| Teezgaff wrote: |
| Thanks for the insight Chris.. Being proven wrong makes us learn faster... |
The only problem being that I cannot devote enough time to doing a thorough job with every such posting. I suggest a reappraisal of your research strategy is in order. A few helpful hints might be welcome :
1) Never quote from a site that is partial unless there is support from less partial sources.
2) Be wary of any internet site with ufo, unexplained, aliens or other such in the url - they will probably be special interest/paranoid fantasy/social misfit territory
3) Always try to search for the counter-case when researching. Sure, search for 'Creation Myth Alien' or similar if you like, but then search for creation myth mayan or whatever you get a hit on and check it from another perspective...
4) Authorititive websites should generally be believed rather than unknown or dodgy looking ones. This would include encyclopedia sites, professional or trade sites in the field, known information sources such as Wikki, professional journals and publications etc
| Quote: |
| So back to the main subject... Have we been visited by other worldly beings throughout history? |
There is no good reason to suppose so.
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| The most fascinating account from pre-history has to be The Mahabharata with many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called Vimanas. The Mahabharata describes great wars in the skys, with some amazing descriptions of devasting weaponry.The text also enumerates 16 kinds of metal that are needed to construct the flying vehicle: `Metals suitable, lighare 16 kinds. `But only three of them are known to us today. The rest remain untranslatable."
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The Maha bharata is a complex and long piece of writing - the largest epic I can think of - therefore it will contain many references and quotes that are out of the ordinary. It is also a spiritual work (Hindu) and therefore will contain much that is allegorical, metaphorical, indicative or suggestive.
It is a great work with a lot of profound insight and deep philosophy. It does not, however, contain references to aliens, UFOs or the like. The flying machines you reference are part of Volume 1 - Emperor of Sorcerers and are perfectly in keeping with the mythology and central plotline - not some reference to an alien or unidentified machine.
You can check out the Maha bharata here:
http://www.claysanskritlibrary.org/volumes_all.php
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| More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details .... |
Yes....it's easy to copy chunks out of a site and post it up,,,,it's also a waste of the readers time and a lazy and unprincipled way to behave....
The rest of this is similar - a cut and paste job from a trawl of some of the less reliable and more fanciful sites on the web.
If you have a point then make it but don't just copy out some quotes and expect folk to seriously engage with it because it's misleading and, ultimately, pointless....
Regards
Chris
Quite entertaining thread.
But sorry teezgaff, ocalhoun does have a point. Show me where they have the base
But sorry teezgaff, ocalhoun does have a point. Show me where they have the base
Teezgaff: All the first and second pictures prove is that such images has been in human imagination, there has been much more imagery of horned and horned people, dragons, gryphon's and other fictional creators that are a hodgepodge of other creators put together.
The picture saw on that Is It Real show, a guy was saying it was evidence that Atlantis existed and they had all this advanced technology (its strange that a morality tail written by Plato can have such an effect), later in the show an Egyptology's gave another explanation, the hieroglyphs on that wall had gone through a rewrite (and since its stone, you can't erase) and the wear of time had caused some of it to fall away producing those images. Thats a logical explanation even if thats wrong it doesn't mean aliens visited earth, if you OK hard enough you can find ancient depictions of things that look like modern things.
The picture saw on that Is It Real show, a guy was saying it was evidence that Atlantis existed and they had all this advanced technology (its strange that a morality tail written by Plato can have such an effect), later in the show an Egyptology's gave another explanation, the hieroglyphs on that wall had gone through a rewrite (and since its stone, you can't erase) and the wear of time had caused some of it to fall away producing those images. Thats a logical explanation even if thats wrong it doesn't mean aliens visited earth, if you OK hard enough you can find ancient depictions of things that look like modern things.
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| Wouldn't there be sightings in other countries? Or do the aliens only visit the USA? |
Visit
http://www.mufon.com/fastfacts.htm
If you would like to read of Ufo's etc here is some recommended reading..
Alien Abductions:
UFOs The Gulf Breeze Sightings - Ed & Frances Walters.
First hand accounts from Ed & Frances + 38 photo's taken from 4 different camera's (1 being a Nimslo 3D supplied by MUFON, also used a stereo setup, with 2 poloroid 600's)
Witnessed the true story of the Brooklyn Bridge abduction - Budd Hopkins
First hand account of "Linda" and subsequent investigation in the abduction.
UFO Sightings:
Any of Major Donald Keyhoe's books.
An insight into what was happening at a military point of view through the 40's - 60's.
The UFO Experience A Scientific Inquiry - J. Allen Hynek
A scientific look at the mis-information and cover-up involving the BlueBook and the Condon commitee evaluation.
Any of Timothy Good's books (The latest being Need To Know)
A look at the military attitude upto present day with plenty of paperwork accessed through the Freedom Of Information Act.
Also checkout the MUFON website for updates of the latest sightings.
www.mufon.com
Don't start with this alien abduction crap, aliens coming to earth is one thing but those alien abduction story's are beyond plausibility and sanity.
First of all the aliens, they have big eyes indicative of a dark environment but no fer and blubber to protect them from the cold of a dark environment, they are very skinny and have necks too thin to support there heads in a gravity similar to earths but such a world would have a much thinner atmosphere (if it could support one) but it has a skinny chest, it would need to be barrel chested to survive in such a thin atmosphere. Of course you are probably going to say "they adapted to space travel" but the fact remain that even if they existed they could not survive in earths gravity. There banes would be too thin , there mussels too week and there heads are too big for there neck and body's to support it.
Secondly the way these memory are "retrieved", through hepno therapy, that is very, very unreliable, the saltiest word from the hypnotists can influence the parson memory's and the parsons ideas and thoughts before the session even begone would as well, producing false memory's.
First of all the aliens, they have big eyes indicative of a dark environment but no fer and blubber to protect them from the cold of a dark environment, they are very skinny and have necks too thin to support there heads in a gravity similar to earths but such a world would have a much thinner atmosphere (if it could support one) but it has a skinny chest, it would need to be barrel chested to survive in such a thin atmosphere. Of course you are probably going to say "they adapted to space travel" but the fact remain that even if they existed they could not survive in earths gravity. There banes would be too thin , there mussels too week and there heads are too big for there neck and body's to support it.
Secondly the way these memory are "retrieved", through hepno therapy, that is very, very unreliable, the saltiest word from the hypnotists can influence the parson memory's and the parsons ideas and thoughts before the session even begone would as well, producing false memory's.
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| First of all the aliens, they have big eyes indicative of a dark environment but no fer and blubber to protect them from the cold of a dark environment, they are very skinny and have necks too thin to support there heads |
How do you know their physiology if they don't exist??
Where do they originate?
You brought up alien abduction.
The "aliens" that are "abducting" people, the grays. The descriptions are of very skinny, big headed, big eyed aliens.
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| Witnessed the true story of the Brooklyn Bridge abduction - Budd Hopkins
First hand account of "Linda" and subsequent investigation in the abduction. |
The "aliens" that are "abducting" people, the grays. The descriptions are of very skinny, big headed, big eyed aliens.
Aliens have to exist. But I don't think they've been here. Yet.
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| he "aliens" that are "abducting" people, the grays. The descriptions are of very skinny, big headed, big eyed aliens. |
Thats the point I'm trying to get across. How did such an image get into the popular culture?
There must have been so many sightings of the same type to stick in the mind. They could have looked like Yoda or ET. etc.
The media and people imaginations. You don't need to see an alien to think of how they might look.
Another problem with those descriptions, there humanoid, aliens would not be humanoid, there not going to be some variant of the human form, remember they would evolved on an alien world completely separate from us.
Another problem with those descriptions, there humanoid, aliens would not be humanoid, there not going to be some variant of the human form, remember they would evolved on an alien world completely separate from us.
If we're the dominant species on this planet don't you think other species out there would have similair traits? Walk upright, 2 arms, 2 or more legs, brain protected by large cranium, 2 stereoscopic eyes etc..
The same stuff that created us is abundant in the universe.
Also why do SETI waste so much time and effort looking for intelligent signals of ET?
We are developing rockets etc to traverse the universe, what makes us think that millions of other species haven't done the same thing millions of years ago and succeeded. We are but children in cosmic universal history.
The same stuff that created us is abundant in the universe.
Also why do SETI waste so much time and effort looking for intelligent signals of ET?
We are developing rockets etc to traverse the universe, what makes us think that millions of other species haven't done the same thing millions of years ago and succeeded. We are but children in cosmic universal history.
Not unnecessary. Though there would be common traits they would have evolved in a different environment. Different gravity, atmospheric pressure, amount of light from the star, maybe even more than one star. If an alien is from a heavy gravity would two legs might not be enough to hold it up, and if it came from a low gravity would it might not have legs, it might have a balloon on it full of helium or hydrogen and floats around and even if it came from a planet with 1 G. Why would it have to have 2 legs or 2 arms? 4 legs is more stable and 4 arms can do more. Why have limbs like ours at all, why not tentacles? Why dose it have to have 2 eyes? Why not 3? Why would it have to have a body, neck and head? why not just a body only? No neck, no head, its brain and sensory organs all in the body. What if they didn't evolve on land? They could be aquatic, semi-aquatic or subterranean. Why would they be an animal? There may not be plant, animal and fungus detonations on an alien world.
It doesn't matter how or where they evolved.
The strongest survive. The weak perish. As on our planet. We evolve to become better and more efficient for where we are. Forward thinking made us the masters of our planet.. And a usable hand to club the weak with...
The strongest survive. The weak perish. As on our planet. We evolve to become better and more efficient for where we are. Forward thinking made us the masters of our planet.. And a usable hand to club the weak with...
No, its not the strongest that survive, its the ones that have the best survivability and that doesn't necessarily mean the strongest.
Where they evolve determines there body shape and the adaption to one environment often means you can't survive in another. If you stuck human on a planet with 10 times the serfis gravity, 40 times the atmospheric pressure and an atmosphere primarily made of methane, they would die.
On the SETI thing. I don't know, its a wast of money. Life is not that common or else aliens would have colonised the earth millions of years ago and they are not going to transmit that long, they'll find better ways.
Where they evolve determines there body shape and the adaption to one environment often means you can't survive in another. If you stuck human on a planet with 10 times the serfis gravity, 40 times the atmospheric pressure and an atmosphere primarily made of methane, they would die.
On the SETI thing. I don't know, its a wast of money. Life is not that common or else aliens would have colonised the earth millions of years ago and they are not going to transmit that long, they'll find better ways.
Ok.
If we're planning on manned missions to other planets how will we survive? We'll use spacesuits etc. And we will only pick planets suitable for us because of this....
We will look for planets SIMILAR to ours. Isn't this the same reason they maybe here? BECAUSE our planet is similar to theirs?
If we're planning on manned missions to other planets how will we survive? We'll use spacesuits etc. And we will only pick planets suitable for us because of this....
We will look for planets SIMILAR to ours. Isn't this the same reason they maybe here? BECAUSE our planet is similar to theirs?
The thing is, there not and if they do come, were ******.
Maybe they are here, but not in enough numbers too take over and destroy us. They must know we are murdering barbarians and have to do their stuff covertly. They may just be waiting for their invasion force to arrive who knows how they think.
Just been watching Sky News. Looks like we're going to populate the Moon by 2022 to make our way to another planet (Mars) that we can't survive on. Will we take our murdering ways with us? Will we annihilate any lifeforms we come accross, or will we just observe them until they cause us a threat? Then kill them...
Just been watching Sky News. Looks like we're going to populate the Moon by 2022 to make our way to another planet (Mars) that we can't survive on. Will we take our murdering ways with us? Will we annihilate any lifeforms we come accross, or will we just observe them until they cause us a threat? Then kill them...
Given technology advanced enough to cross the stars and come here, they can easily wipe us out in weeks.
1. Collect a few people to get genetic samples in order find out the human genome. A few days.
2. Invents a cocktail of super viruses to wipe us out, give them a 2 week incubation period in order to spread.. A few hours.
3. Seed every city on earth with the viruses. A week.
4. The viruses wipes out the human species. 3 weeks.
5. Send robots out to clean up the human corpses and collect the remaining humans, use them as pets. 1 week
5 week and a few days later they have a world to colonise complete with city's.
1. Collect a few people to get genetic samples in order find out the human genome. A few days.
2. Invents a cocktail of super viruses to wipe us out, give them a 2 week incubation period in order to spread.. A few hours.
3. Seed every city on earth with the viruses. A week.
4. The viruses wipes out the human species. 3 weeks.
5. Send robots out to clean up the human corpses and collect the remaining humans, use them as pets. 1 week
5 week and a few days later they have a world to colonise complete with city's.
I've been looking into the accounts of Bill Uhouse and Dan Burisch from their experiments at S4 with the alien they call J-Rod.
I would suggest you read this 3 part article. If this is true then it shows us the intentions of the Aliens, where they are from, the link with the mayan calender date 2012, why the new spate of triangular craft and the genesis seed experiments.
http://www.boomspeed.com/joseph2/J-Rod.htm
I would suggest you read this 3 part article. If this is true then it shows us the intentions of the Aliens, where they are from, the link with the mayan calender date 2012, why the new spate of triangular craft and the genesis seed experiments.
http://www.boomspeed.com/joseph2/J-Rod.htm
The problem is, its not.
People lie, they may seem not to have a reason but they do. If there are aliens visiting earth they wouldn't have to hide them selves cause you would have to cause to find the evidence of them you would have to find your way through lies, false memory's and modern alien mythology. And there is so many lies, false memory's and alien mythology out there that any account is questionable at best complete but most likely complete crap.
People lie, they may seem not to have a reason but they do. If there are aliens visiting earth they wouldn't have to hide them selves cause you would have to cause to find the evidence of them you would have to find your way through lies, false memory's and modern alien mythology. And there is so many lies, false memory's and alien mythology out there that any account is questionable at best complete but most likely complete crap.
On Dan Burisch:-
Doesn't look like a fantasist too me...
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| RECENTLY DAN DID AN EXPERIMENT, HE CONDUCTED AN ENHANCED REPLICATION TO LORRENZO SPALLANZANI’S FAMOUS EXPERIMENT, THAT SET THE NOTION OF A BIO-GENESIS……DIRECT , NOW A BIOGENESIS IS GENESIS FROM NONE BIOLOGICAL MATERIAL. BUT THE EXPERIMENT THAT DAN DID, THE ENHANCED REPLICATION, CONFIRMED SPALLANZANI’S ORIGINAL RESULTS, AND…WHAT’S AMAZING IS, HE USED SPECIALLY FUNNELLED CULTURE FLASKS, THAT FOCUSED THE LOTUS PARTICLE PRODUCTION ON THE REACTION SURFACES AND NOVEL RESULTS WERE OBTAINED BECAUSE DAN SAYS THAT WITHIN A WEEK OF SPECIALISED SUBSTRATE AND VOLTAGE APPLICATION, PROTOCELLS WERE PRODUCED AND BY A WEEKS TIME, THOSE PROTOCELLS HAD DIFFERENTIATED INTO CYCLING EUKARYOTIC CELLS. NOW……ONE HAS TO BE A LITTLE FAMILIAR WITH BIOLOGY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT AN ASTOUNDING STATEMENT THAT IS. IN OTHER WORDS……HE’S EVOLVING PROTOCELLS, ……DIFFERENTIATED CELLS FROM PROTOCELL STRUCTURES NOT IN MILLIONS OF YEARS OF EVOLUTION, BUT HE’S TALKING ABOUT IN A WEEKS TIME… AND …………. ONE OF THE ………….THINGS THAT HE HAS BEEN WORKING ON IS……..PRODUCTION OF…………WHAT APPEAR TO BE, ………………….OH…..MATURING NEURONS, NEURONIC CELLS, RIGHT? AND HE HAD……PAGES AND PAGES OF TECHNICAL NOTES THAT HE HAD TAKEN ON THAT PARTICULAR EXPERIMENT. |
Doesn't look like a fantasist too me...
If it did ufologists would even say he's lying so any story that is too out there would be relegated to the alien religion freaks.
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| If it did ufologists would even say he's lying so any story that is too out there would be relegated to the alien religion freaks. |
What are you on about???
If you had read the above article you would know how Burisch is implicated in the S4 genetic project....
http://www.boomspeed.com/joseph2/J-Rod.htm
CONSPIRATOROk, stop think for a moment. Who is this Bill Uhouse's guy? How do you know hes telling the truth? Dose he have any evidence? What do you know about this earth files site that it comes from? Where do they get there information from? Are they reliable? There are the questions you have to ask cause the internet is full of crap.
I did a wikipedea search on him and all I got was this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disclosure_Project, he has to do with this UFO cover up myth, which is just that a myth, if it were true that every government on earth would have to be involved and then you getting in to this shadow world government crap. Its just an excuse for the lack of evidence for alien visiting earth.
And I can't find much information of this earth files site but they have this "real x-files" sections, and based on the articles in that section I seriously doubt there integrity and accuracy.
I did a wikipedea search on him and all I got was this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disclosure_Project, he has to do with this UFO cover up myth, which is just that a myth, if it were true that every government on earth would have to be involved and then you getting in to this shadow world government crap. Its just an excuse for the lack of evidence for alien visiting earth.
And I can't find much information of this earth files site but they have this "real x-files" sections, and based on the articles in that section I seriously doubt there integrity and accuracy.
Just put a search in google for either Dan Burisch or Bill Uhouse.
It's not hard to find they're respected in their fields.
Also do a search for the Lotus Project.
It's not hard to find they're respected in their fields.
Also do a search for the Lotus Project.
Goggle sucks. To many crack post, and fools who spread misconceptions and lies.
I'll try it anyway, just to prove a point.
All the search result were about aliens and UFO's, nothing about there field unless its ufology which is a pseudoscience.
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=Dan+Burisch&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=Bill+Uhouse&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I'll try it anyway, just to prove a point.
All the search result were about aliens and UFO's, nothing about there field unless its ufology which is a pseudoscience.
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=Dan+Burisch&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=Bill+Uhouse&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
| Quote: |
| Goggle sucks. To many crack post, and fools who spread misconceptions and lies. |
Hmmm really, tell that to their shareholders....
Try searching for each one individually.
ON ANY OF THE SEARCH ENGINES..
Or if you like watch this:- Although 2hrs long maybe you won't..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-401824297513952563&q=dan+burisch&hl=en
| Teezgaff wrote: |
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My military training coming out... LOL
I'm not going to spend 2 hours watching some guy spew out crap.
That link doesn't even solve the problem, I need more than just what he says or what some UFO show says.
That link doesn't even solve the problem, I need more than just what he says or what some UFO show says.
I was always told if 1 alien abduction could be proved, that would make alien interaction a reality....
Travis Walton was the most definitive case...
Travis Walton was the most definitive case...
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| The test report as followed: "These polygraph examinations positively prove that these five men did see something they believe was a UFO and that Travis Walton was not injured or murdered by any of these men, on that Wednesday 5th of November 1975. If an actual UFO did not exist and the UFO was a manmade hoax, five of these men had no prior knowledge of a hoax." Signed C.E. Gilson, polygraph examiner. |
| Teezgaff wrote: | ||
| I was always told if 1 alien abduction could be proved, that would make alien interaction a reality....
Travis Walton was the most definitive case...
|
And you got this information from a reliable source?
I looked it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Walton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Walton#Controversy
The chances of creature described in alien abductions evolving are almost nil, the chances of such creators surviving in earth gravity is 0, the methods used to to gain access to the memory's is very, very unreliable and even with out the hypnotist influencing them it can produce false memory's (see false memory and satanic rituel abuse) since recorded history people have claimed to have been attacked of and even raped by demons (see succubus and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus_(demon)]incubus[/url]), the things that happen in an alien abduction are representatives of fears people have in the modern world (lose of ones control to another, imprisonment, sexual abuse, medical experimentation on people). And the fact that there has been no were near a confirmed case say that alien abductions are not real.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| The media and people imaginations. You don't need to see an alien to think of how they might look.
Another problem with those descriptions, there humanoid, aliens would not be humanoid, there not going to be some variant of the human form, remember they would evolved on an alien world completely separate from us. |
People also get their wiev of aliens from movies. So yeah, I´d agree with you.
Some reading that will enlighten some about the real causes of alien abduction memory's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
I believe that aliens exist, i'm just not sure what they look like. Do they look more or less like us, some other creature that exists on Earth, or something completely different?
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