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Do you like browsing a site that uses HTML frames?

If you hit a site using frames and they gave you the option to browse the site with no frames, which version would you use?
I don't mind frames so I'd use the framed version.
 23%  [ 8 ]
I can't stand frames so I'd use the non-framed version.
 76%  [ 26 ]
Total Votes : 34

I'm doing research for a tutorial on making web page frames and I came across some info stating over 90% of users would prefer to browse a non-framed site over a framed site. However the info is quite dated and I haven't been able to come up with something more current. Hence this poll.

Thanks for your response.
scrolling is affected and things load at different times. people neglect certain attributes which are important for most bowsers ans a pile of other stuff. In some case their good and nessascary but otherwise I'm against them! Twisted Evil
I think a more interesting question would be, if you were to design a webpage what would you use frames or tables? I find that the end user isn't as affected as the designer. What do you think?
It seems to me the pros and cons of using frames for design was already discussed elsewhere here at FriHost although now I can no longer find that discussion. Besides I was specifically interested in addressing frames from a user point of view since I've already read many forum discussions on other sites about why web designers should or should not use frames.

What I find really lacking is some hard stats about what end users feel about frames. This is the best I've been able to come up with so far although the information is very dated:

A 1996 article in WebWeek reported that when offered a choice, readers with frames-based browsers choose non-frames versions of Web pages -- by a whopping 9-to-1 margin! When 90% of your readers tell you something's a bad idea, you must at least entertain the possibility that they are correct.

I found that info at this site.

As for the end user not being that affected.... Hmmm, I tend to disagree. I personally think that when it comes to HTML frames, the end user may be very affected. Unless one is web savvy and/or they're using Internet Explorer, bookmarking or sending a link to a framed page is problematic.

But I could be wrong. Maybe users have warmed up to frames. Personally I can't stand them.
I heard frames are illegal in some countries, is this true?
lockwolf wrote:
I heard frames are illegal in some countries, is this true?

wtf? Where did you hear that? I seriosly doubt it. And i see no reason why it would be.

Yea i hate frames, i like tables 100000X more.
i myself don't really care wich way it is done, though i usually dont use frames myself i like them for their simplicity
Ok, frames are good when done well. Are they ever done well? No. No they're not. A navbar in a frame is about as far as it should ever go, and only when you have a lot of content (i.e. you don't want pople to have to scroll all the way to the top to find the nav tools). Basically, don't use. Ever.
Frames are very ugly and very annoying.
Hmm... I think, frames are out of date. There are no frames in modern W3C standards.

In fact, frames stand for presentation rather than structure, so they should be removed from markup languages.
if you still have to resort to frames to make designing easier (which is all they are really for) you have major problems. plus, frames make bookmarking harder, linking to specific frames more difficult, etc.

down with frames Twisted Evil
Just use iframes or whatever they are or even php include() bot are much much better and simple
Frames look ugly a lot of the time. Also it majorly confuses search engines. My router uses them on the HTML it generates. But that's ok because it has lots of options so it needs that functionality over looks. I'd say just use css and a php include.
people here can't help but think from a web-designer's point of view. (we are webmasters after all Wink )

but not using frames for designing your site is one thing, and preferring a non-frame version of a site you are visiting, just because you know frames are evil, is another.
and it wouldn't help littlegiant's survey if we were to give biased opinions on the subject.

as an end-user I don't really mind frames.

p.s. - I believe most of the internet users are not web-designers themselves. it's their opinion that should matter the most.
what do you mean
i don't understand
and i've heard search engines doesn't like a framed site very much Razz like someone said earlier, as a user i don't mind it, as long as it's a smooth visit for me.
i dont mind.. but as a designer myself, i would say u dont used frame.. If u donno how to make the content box expandable, read tuts and u will know...
frames are useful only to save bandwidth client and server side.
Except that, i hate frames.
As a web designer, I dont prefer to use Frames.

I would say, Frames add additional overheard to the development, in terms of security, quality, speed etc.

Obviously, for the user, who doesnt aware of frames, the whole internet appears a magic.
I couldn't care less as long as the site has the information I'm looking for.
I guess frames can be useful if they're used correctly, and not in a way that is cumbersome and unprofessional. I would use the frames site if I had a choice, unless it turns out to be extremely unusable. There really is nothing that you can do with frames that you can't do with SSL, PHP, or CSS.
i happily use frames if and only if the contents of the site are really important or unique. (like PHPMYADMIN and Admin login area of phpBB and few sites)
Frames in almost every instance can be done away with, they make it more difficult to print the page, and they tend to break. Also, don't use tables for formatting either if you can help it. You can generally replace everything frames and tables do in formatting with CSS and PHP includes for menus/footers etc. .
Frames are way too slow and take up a lot of webspace. It squeezes everything in, and sometimes not everything needs to be put into a single web page. I choose no.
lockwolf wrote:
I heard frames are illegal in some countries, is this true?

You've probably read something like that you can open another site inside your site which sometimes can be interpreted as 'copying'.
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