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coolclay
Is in regards to the issue of people posting in old threads and then being criticized for doing it and having them locked.

Some Mods are very contradictory, when someone posts a new topic when there already was one, the poster gets b*tched at and the topic is closed because he didn't "search". Then when someone brings up and old topic and posts in it, they get b*tched at for reviving an old topic and it gets closed.

This is in regards to this topic btw http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-16696.html
but I have seen it happen many times before.

I hadn't seen that topic before, and I thought it was funny, and I wanted to say something about the issue, but hey look I can't because somebody CLOSED IT! Then if I was to open another new topic about it I would get b*tched at for it.

So mods what is the problem here, and what is the solution. You can't just go on power trips and close down every topic. That sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a forum don't you think.[/url]
Traveller
You do bring up some interesting points, and I think you do have a valid question deserving a properly reasoned response, so I'll do my best to address this from the way I have seen it, although each moderator or administrator may have different emphases of the same issues.

First, it really has little to do with power trips (which occur on both sides of the issue, BTW, as can be readily observed), but with the site's objective of providing an online community for intelligent discussion and original thought for the people who wish to be hosted here. The idea is to prevent, as much as possible (although some of this will occur), having threads devolve into shouting matches, "me-too-ism," or just a bunch of "add three words to the story" games.

As far as old topics are concerned, different staff members have different opinions as well as different degrees of tolerance for particular aspects of the issue. Aside from of those differences, however, there is very little actual contradiction. Here's why:

The new threads that are closed because of existing topics are closed because the original topics have had at least SOME relatively recent activity. By closing the duplicates, we hope to prevent having multiple, ongoing discussions about the same thing. This also makes sense from a user's point of view, since a user wouldn't have to post messages, saying essentially the same thing, in multiple threads, and would only need to read one thread to be sure of being up to date with the current state of the discussion.

The old, long-dormant threads that are suddenly brought back to life are a different issue. There, since a discussion may have lain fallow for several months, our concern is not that the thread has been revived, but why, or in what manner. Most of the recent incidents involving "kicked" threads have been cases where very little original discussion of any value was added to the topic. We have no objection to adding to an old thread in such a way that it resurrects it into productivity, but we do object to old threads where the addition merely produces a zombie - a walking-dead thread that gets battered around just so a user can gain a few extra, cheap, unearned points. The latter scenario has been particularly common in the past, and the responses that have been added to most of the thus-revived threads of late have not been particularly significant or meaningful, so the staff members who have dealt with these things have done so because of the lack of any true, demonstrable merit in the more recent responses.

Thus, when a topic has been inactive for a few months or more, if a user does have something to say about it that will foster further, intelligent discussion by other users, we do NOT object to the creation of a new thread and, in fact, would prefer it. On the other hand, if a topic has been active, or has only been inactive for a couple of days or weeks, we do NOT object to responses to that topics and, in fact, would prefer that you respond in the existing thread rather than start a new one.

I hope that (at least somewhat) clears up why we object to certain new threads and to certain revived threads, but not to others.
a.Bird
I didn't even realize that the mentioned thread was old. When I saw the title in the forum, I clicked on it because I found it relevant to Borat's new movie that is coming out (or has already come out?) So essentially, I am almost certain that thread wasn't brought back from the dead just to be a walking zombie. It had significance to current events and I could have cared less when it was originally created, it was interesting to me.

What's more, if "intelligent discussion" means discussion outside of normal, everyday chitchat that extends deeper than usual in the realm of intense human intellect, creating or providing knowledge or information that is constructive to our understanding of the world, I know I have seen many threads that should have been closed. But this is the "General Chat" section. People talk about their favorite soda and share funny videos. None of that is intelligent discussion.

I think the real issue lies in moderators going out on a personal whim to close a thread they personally do not condone for whatever unsaid reason. How come if many people of the community condone an idea or topic and are contributing a healthy amount of influence on it's popularity, that is not enough for a moderator to leave it open? Aren't the ad clicks the main priority to keeping this place running period? How many ads are going to be hit if people's threads are being closed instantaneously left and right? Isn't this action contradictory to the main focus of the member's duties to provide to this webspace enterprise?

Oh, and isn't the creation of redundant threads heavily database intensive for this site?
coolclay
I agree that people should not open repeat threads, for the reasons you said. I also agree that people should not open old threads and say "wow thats cool" or something similarily stupid and useless. But even if someone does bring up and old thread, and says something stupid, locking it will not solve the problem. Its not like there points are taken away or anything of the sort. In fact locking it doesn't stop anything except more possibly thoughtful discussion such as mine. I actually had something useful to contribute but I couldn't because it was locked. And just like a.bird stated that prevented me from seeing ads and supporting this site. If it had been left open it would not have hurt anyone and it would have helped to support the site. So thats my opinion and I am sticking to it. If a certain mod wants to continue locking tons of threads, thats his business, but it is not helping to support this site thats for sure.
{name here}
I'd rather see these threads merged with the previous thread if PhpBB has that feature in the Mod CP or through a mod if any redeeming discussion takes place.
Vrythramax
I lock many topics because they are either useless and spam, and when a topic has already been discussed then I lock it and tell the user to use the search function. Too many users just post for points when they could contribute to an existing topic., which would gain them the same point value.

You should always use the search funtion before creating a new topic.

Bumping an older topic is fine....if you can add to it's content or subject matter.
reddishblue
Well it seems you picked up one of the topics that I yell at people for going back to the first page and picking up, really the topic you showed was spam anyway and may have contributed to Gonzo being banned, I think that Frihost should have a system that deletes old topics automaticley after say two months with no reply.
And I am sorry to all who might accuse me of being a backseat mod (not that anyone is but...) I am just trying to discurrage people from bringing back old topics, exept for that time I brought back the first topic in Frihost history, that was historic.

Reddish Blue
Vrythramax
@reddishblue

Gonzo didn't banned for spam...and how would know of him....you weren't even here then....maybe some checking into your history is in order.
reddishblue
Yes I know I was not even here...thats why I said may...because I dont know...maybe you could tell me...or is this a no0bie4life kind of thing...where we never know for sure
coolclay
Max I understand the whole lock repeat topics I agree. What I am bringing attention to is the topic that was closed about Borat, it was apparently closed because someone brought up and old topic, like they are supposed to and someone didn't think the post was worth bringing up again.

But I hadn't seen the post before and I had some intelligent discussion to add to it, but I couldn't because it was locked. That defeats the entire purpose of a forum.
truespeed
I think in this instance the thread should of been left open,the borat movie had just been released so it was topical.

i think its probably harder being a mod on here,trying to get a balance on a forum where people have to post,and distinguishing between ppl posting to keep their points up and ppl posting something they have an actual opinion on.


On the subject of borat,the movie has gone to number 1 at the US box office.

Source
S3nd K3ys
Perhaps a pre-processing function to grab a couple key words from each and every new topic's Subject field and run them thru the search engine before they're submitted for a new post.

Either that or redirect New Topics to Search.

Those are about the only two ways I can think of to comply with ..

Vrythramax wrote:

You should always use the search funtion before creating a new topic.
.
Blaster
Hmm intersting thread in itself i must agree. Gonzo being banned wasn't to do with that. I have talked to a copple mods and all and thats not really it.

http://bondings-world.frihost.net/23/02/2006/30.bondings

There was a picture with gonzos face on a ship there at one time. He was banned by the staff for many reasons and all. And before a mod says i dont' knwo what i'm talking about i knwo a good amount of the story.

Also for the whole threads thing some mods are different. Me personaly would have kept it open. I would have seen major potential in the thread. I've seen major spam threads come out to threads that have a lot in them. Well thought out posts. Then again i seen the same with threads that had a lot of talking in them and some spammer come in.
tidruG
coolclay wrote:
Max I understand the whole lock repeat topics I agree. What I am bringing attention to is the topic that was closed about Borat, it was apparently closed because someone brought up and old topic, like they are supposed to and someone didn't think the post was worth bringing up again.

But I hadn't seen the post before and I had some intelligent discussion to add to it, but I couldn't because it was locked. That defeats the entire purpose of a forum.

Sadly, almost all the replies in that thread were useless. James locked that topic based on the replies it had already received.
Like it's already been said, we don't lick old threads that are kicked back to the surface just because they are kicked back to the surface. We lock old threads that are kicked back to the top if their relevance is in question for the present or if the newer replies are irrelevant or spammy.

You should also know that the sole objective of this forum is not to generate money from ads. It's to create a discussion board where people enjoy mentally stimulating discussions (or to try and get there as much as possible). The revenue generated from the ads is only to keep the servers running or to get new servers or to improve hosting quality.

PS: I'm also getting sick of all the "Mods on a power trip" threads. If you don't like a moderating action, make a proper thread about it instead of going on your own little ranty power trip. Secondly, don't assume any of the staff members are on a "power trip". If they were, you'd see a lot more bannings, a lot more closed threads, etc.
Vandalyzed
Vrythramax wrote:
I lock many topics because they are either useless and spam..............



I would have to agree, unfortunately........ If I were a moderator, I'd probably sit here at the computer for hours on end, just to catch the spam topics before any replies could be made....

Sorry, personal viewpoint, alot of the topics I've seen are spam, or just not worth posting in. I come back to the forums and the first thing I do is view only the topics I've posted in........because obviously I thought the conversation had merit.........then, after that, I go and see what new topics are in the forums.

But, as you can see from my low points..........I dont find many topics worth posting in.
Vrythramax
coolclay wrote:
Max I understand the whole lock repeat topics I agree. What I am bringing attention to is the topic that was closed about Borat, it was apparently closed because someone brought up and old topic, like they are supposed to and someone didn't think the post was worth bringing up again.

But I hadn't seen the post before and I had some intelligent discussion to add to it, but I couldn't because it was locked. That defeats the entire purpose of a forum.


If you have something useful to add, I'll unlock the topic... bun't a simple bump isn't useful.

PM me the url.
truespeed
For those who are not sure about forum ettiquette,then look at this
a.Bird
Out of 70 threads on the first page of the General Chat section, 20 of them are locked. Almost 1 in every 3 threads are locked. Applause
Josso
a.Bird wrote:
Out of 70 threads on the first page of the General Chat section, 20 of them are locked. Almost 1 in every 3 threads are locked. Applause


So? Maybe they needed to be locked.
a.Bird
Josso wrote:
a.Bird wrote:
Out of 70 threads on the first page of the General Chat section, 20 of them are locked. Almost 1 in every 3 threads are locked. Applause


So? Maybe they needed to be locked.


Maybe the primary solution isn't locking these threads. Maybe it is enforcing stricter rules and a stronger sense of community and respect for the forums. But then again, I'm not a moderator so what could I possibly know.
scotty
truespeed wrote:
For those who are not sure about forum ettiquette,then look at this


That was funny. However, this topic is challenging the very "etiquette" that has evolved in forums. Use the search button and look what you get, a thread about Borat (current topic in the news evidently). But, it was locked because it was old, not because it was SPAM. That is what James gave as the reason for the lock.

A lot of threads in this forum are SPAM, it's a by-product of forcing people to post but I don't care. Personally I enjoy watching Vrythramax lock them because he finds them boring. Exaggeration maybe... but in general I agree with all the decisions by moderators to lock threads but this is silly. Just because it was old it was locked. If you claim it was locked because it is SPAM , you're going to have to go and lock almost all the threads on this board which I'm certain you won't do. It is a very subjective issue where some people will consider some threads SPAM and others not but this is taking it too far.

It's hard to have a strong opinion on this topic, it is one of those things. But what I do believe is that nobody should ever lock a thread because it is old.

If James thought it was SPAM it is fair enough that he locked it but he should say so. I've held of replying to this thread and slept on it a bit and I can't really come up with a solution and I'm not expecting anybody to, a.Bird is heading in the right direction though. All I want to add is what I've already said, don't lock a thread for the sole reason that it is old.

Oh and keep clicking the ads because in reality we all know that this is all the forum is for. That's a cynical view but there is little sense of community in these forums and are worse off for it. That said I still enjoy these forums.
Vrythramax
I must admit, I do close/lock alot of threads, not out of meaness....but simply that I think they serve no usefull purpose and will only create spam. Spam is a large problem on a server, it creats un-needed overhead and bandwidth usage...both of which cost $$$ (and not FRH$).

If someone bumps an old topic because they have something useful to add to the topic....(and I think I can speak for all the mods), we won't lock it just because of it's age. BUT....if an old topic is bumped simply for someone to say "oh yeah!", "I heard that", "I agree".....then the topic is going to go bye bye.

The forums are here for all users....we just have a strict spam policy.
coolclay
Vrythramax my point is that, I agree that spam posts are bad and there should be a way for mods to "punish" spammers, but by locking a thread that has potential, just because someone wrote some crap in it, isn't punishing the spammer, it is punishing me and others that have a worthwhile response.
Vrythramax
coolclay wrote:
Vrythramax my point is that, I agree that spam posts are bad and there should be a way for mods to "punish" spammers, but by locking a thread that has potential, just because someone wrote some crap in it, isn't punishing the spammer, it is punishing me and others that have a worthwhile response.


You have a very valid point there, but as mods we don't the rights to "punish" a single user...that's up to the admins.

It's not the best system, but it does work. If you have something valid to add to a locked topic PM any mod and I'm pretty sure they will unlock the topic and allow your input.

We just work here....we aren't tyrants. Very Happy
coolclay
Quote:
We just work here....we aren't tyrants. :Very Happy:

Yea sure Twisted Evil lol

Yea I understand I guess, but just think of this topic the next time you think about closeing a topic due to "spam". And BTW since you offered can you open the topic back up about Borat. That would make me happy
Very Happy
coolclay
Oh and thanks to all those people and mods that contributed to this valuable discussion, and thanks to all for not turning this into a b1tching battle. Its really nice, finally to see a forum where discussion doesn't lead to flaming or closing of a topic that questions moderators actions.
Vrythramax
coolclay wrote:
Quote:
We just work here....we aren't tyrants. :Very Happy:

Yea sure Twisted Evil lol

Yea I understand I guess, but just think of this topic the next time you think about closeing a topic due to "spam". And BTW since you offered can you open the topic back up about Borat. That would make me happy
Very Happy


Insult me then ask for a favor.....LOL!

topic is closed.

and this one may be shortly.
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