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John Kerry's Comments are a Cheap Shot at US Troops!
Read these comments and just think about what he said for one minute. Throw out if you are a Republican or Democrat!
"You know, education - if you make the most of it - you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," he said.
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These comments by are an absolute cheap shot at all US Troops serving the grand ole United States of America. To take out of context: he said if you do not do your work in school and do not study; you will end up in Iraq... implying our troops have a lack of education and are pretty much dumb.... It's pathetic.
Even a Democratic Strategist agrees that Kerry's comments are wrong:
"He has already cost us one election. The guy just needs to keep his mouth shut until after the election," a top Democratic strategist said Tuesday.
Kerry has already said he is not going to apologize for it; and now an I'M SORRY will not be accepted by anyone!
Come next tuesday, if the Republican's somehow maintain control over the Congress; I will look at these comments for energizing the GOP BASE.
"You know, education - if you make the most of it - you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," he said.
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These comments by are an absolute cheap shot at all US Troops serving the grand ole United States of America. To take out of context: he said if you do not do your work in school and do not study; you will end up in Iraq... implying our troops have a lack of education and are pretty much dumb.... It's pathetic.
Even a Democratic Strategist agrees that Kerry's comments are wrong:
"He has already cost us one election. The guy just needs to keep his mouth shut until after the election," a top Democratic strategist said Tuesday.
Kerry has already said he is not going to apologize for it; and now an I'M SORRY will not be accepted by anyone!
Come next tuesday, if the Republican's somehow maintain control over the Congress; I will look at these comments for energizing the GOP BASE.
I agree wholeheartedly! I don't think he intentionally attacked the troops, but he did screw up and offend people.
What ticked me off was that he didn't even have the courtesy to at least say something like, "I'm sorry if I offended anyone in my botched delivery of my stab at President Bush."
What ticked me off was that he didn't even have the courtesy to at least say something like, "I'm sorry if I offended anyone in my botched delivery of my stab at President Bush."
| tribe wrote: |
|
"You know, education - if you make the most of it - you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," he said. |
i couldn't understand what you mean?
do you agree there is a stuck or not?
firstly there is a "stuck in Iraq"
every day 100 iraqi people die
every month 100 us soldiers die
but i think bush administration is responsible for this stuck not the us trooops.
| palavra wrote: | ||
i couldn't understand what you mean? do you agree there is a stuck or not? firstly there is a "stuck in Iraq" every day 100 iraqi people die every month 100 us soldiers die but i think bush administration is responsible for this stuck not the us trooops. |
That's usually the case isn't it? Kerry in no uncertain terms stated that un-educated people are in our military because they're un-educated. In other words, if you're stupid you have to go to Iraq. Then Kerry (par to the course) flip flopped and said he meant it as a jab at Bush then refused to say he was sorry.
He's a turd in the punch bowl for democrats
If his joke was "botched," I can only imagine how funny it would have been had he hit the punchline right... what a shameful representation of our nation's policymakers. To say something that distasteful is unexcusable. Do people even think before they talk these days, or has war/troop/Bush bashing become so rampant that everyone assumes whatever goes, so long its aim is to push the liberal agenda.
It does not matter what party you are affiliated with but when you attack our nation's military, you are attacking the men and women not only of this war but the countless others that have allowed us to continue living in freedom. Obviously Kerry has never believed this based on his Vietnam Communist parading days, but we are smarter and it's about time the media has covered the dispicable scapegoating occuring at the cost of our troops confidence.
It does not matter what party you are affiliated with but when you attack our nation's military, you are attacking the men and women not only of this war but the countless others that have allowed us to continue living in freedom. Obviously Kerry has never believed this based on his Vietnam Communist parading days, but we are smarter and it's about time the media has covered the dispicable scapegoating occuring at the cost of our troops confidence.
| Dick Cheney wrote: |
| Time and time again, we're seeing examples of Democratic Party leaders apparently having lost their perspective concerning the nature of the enemy we face, and the need to wage this fight aggressively. No sharper example can be found than the Democratic Party chairman himself, Howard Dean, who said the capture of Saddam Hussein didn't make America any safer. And maybe it should be no surprise that such a party would turn its back on a man like Senator Joe Lieberman, who has been an unapologetic supporter of the fight against terror.
Instead they highlight people like John Kerry, their presidential nominee in 2004. Aren’t we lucky he lost that election?  You remember John Kerry – the senator who voted for the 87 billion dollars before he voted against it … the guy that was always lecturing us about “nuances.” He’s the one, you’ll recall, who last year said that American soldiers were “terrorizing … children” in Iraq. And just this week he took another swipe at the U. S. military. Here’s what he said, word for word. Quote: “You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” End quote. Well, apparently Senator Kerry’s the one who needs to be educated.
Of course, now Senator Kerry says he was just making a joke, and he botched it up. I guess we didn’t get the nuance. He was for the joke before he was against it. 
As a leading Democratic senator, John Kerry needs to learn that the men and women serving in Iraq aren’t there because they didn’t study hard or do their homework. The all-volunteer force represents the very best of this country. They’re smart, patriotic, exceptionally well trained, and dedicated to their mission. They are heroes, and they are the pride of the United States of America. |
Dick Cheney in Montana this morning.. a very eloquent man..
Highlighting and LoLing added by me.
I agree he said one big stupid thing, maybe he did not mean to insult US troops, maybe he was refering to GW Bush, there are levels a former candidate for the US presidency is not going to argue with soldiers because one is a politician and the other one is a warrior.
| maclui wrote: |
| I agree he said one big stupid thing, maybe he did not mean to insult US troops, maybe he was refering to GW Bush, there are levels a former candidate for the US presidency is not going to argue with soldiers because one is a politician and the other one is a warrior. |
This isn't the first time Kerry has lashed out against our soldiers by any means and likely won't be the last.
Yeah, well - it's John Kerry, what exactly did you expect?
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
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lol thats a really good come back. haha
This puts yesterday's statement in a different light.
Tell us what you really think John
Kerry's '72 Army Comments Mirror Latest
John Kerry is no longer a viable Presidential Candidate.
BTW, Kerry did not apologize, he said he regrets words were misinterpreted.
His words were NOT misinterpreted. He may have botched a joke, but what he said was wrong and he needs to apologize for it instead of saying we misunderstood him, and he needs to do it by itself without making more political statements at the same time.
Tell us what you really think John
| John Kerry- 1972 wrote: |
| I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.' |
Kerry's '72 Army Comments Mirror Latest
John Kerry is no longer a viable Presidential Candidate.
BTW, Kerry did not apologize, he said he regrets words were misinterpreted.
His words were NOT misinterpreted. He may have botched a joke, but what he said was wrong and he needs to apologize for it instead of saying we misunderstood him, and he needs to do it by itself without making more political statements at the same time.
| palavra wrote: | ||
i couldn't understand what you mean? do you agree there is a stuck or not? firstly there is a "stuck in Iraq" every day 100 iraqi people die every month 100 us soldiers die but i think bush administration is responsible for this stuck not the us trooops. |
Actually it is 55 US Soldiers die in Iraq every month. That is hostile and accidental. There are more then that that die in New York City every month, and those are just murders, there are also tons of car accidents, ect.
And I find the fact that Kerry said this to be despicable, and I also find it some-what funny that if a Republican had said that, it would be pasted all over the news, and Democrats around the nation would be publically condemming it, where as this is the first I have heard about it.
| carlospro7 wrote: | ||
lol thats a really good come back. haha |
firstly i thought this is a joke(photoshop joke!)
then i saw the same picture in cnn
do you think "it is OK ."
i mean kerry is a political figure
he is responsible to people of us.
when he makes a mistake his rivals should answer to him
not the soldiers
Kerry is a jerk.... It's a safe bet that in 2 years; when he will go up for election; he will not win.
Massachusetts should try for a recall on this ass!
Massachusetts should try for a recall on this ass!
I definitely think that Kerry was in the wrong and there should have been an immediate apology. If you are a civilian and you say something like that it is an opinion and I believe you can say what you want; however, when you are a political leader you have more power than the average citizen and need to think before you speak.
Kerry botched his joke, sucks to be him.
Same thing goes for Bush, when he sang out about OB/GYN's practicing their love with women.
Politicians get their prepared speeches wrong sometimes.
To think that Kerry actually was calling the Troops strupid is to underestimate him. We have all heard enough Kerry rhetoric to know that he was aiming his comments at Bush.
Same thing goes for Bush, when he sang out about OB/GYN's practicing their love with women.
Politicians get their prepared speeches wrong sometimes.
To think that Kerry actually was calling the Troops strupid is to underestimate him. We have all heard enough Kerry rhetoric to know that he was aiming his comments at Bush.
| LeviticusMky wrote: |
| Kerry botched his joke, sucks to be him.
Same thing goes for Bush, when he sang out about OB/GYN's practicing their love with women. Politicians get their prepared speeches wrong sometimes. To think that Kerry actually was calling the Troops strupid is to underestimate him. We have all heard enough Kerry rhetoric to know that he was aiming his comments at Bush. |
You sure about that?
That "joke" sounded an awful lot like some other comments he made that blatently degraded our military, calling them murderers, saying the torture women and children in the dark of nite, saying they cut off limbs/ears and shot them in the back etc etc etc.
I ain't buying it. He hates the military, he has no respect for them (not even as people) and I think he's ruined.
Hey S3nd K3ys, did you hear his "apology" it was him saying that it was Bush's fault that everyone misinterpreted his comments! Then he went of on another thing, I don't think he ever said that his comments were inappropriate, he never said that the US troops aren't uneducated, he never apologized in any way at all!
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| Hey S3nd K3ys, did you hear his "apology" it was him saying that it was Bush's fault that everyone misinterpreted his comments! Then he went of on another thing, I don't think he ever said that his comments were inappropriate, he never said that the US troops aren't uneducated, he never apologized in any way at all! |
You're absolutely correct. In fact, he tried to claim we all MISINTERPRETED what he said. He truely is a piece of shit. I don't see how any level headed person can think otherwise. He has proven over and over and over that he hates the military and has proven over and over and over that he will do what ever it takes to make Bush look bad. ANYTHING.
I am roughly John Kerry's age.
During the Viet Nam war it was perfectly clear that if you did not go to College you were draft bait. It was understood. 1 road avioded the draft and the other put you in line for it.
Kerry simply carried that thinking over to the present moment. If I am not mistaken the man was injured while in the service. Leave it to the piss ants to try to convert the facts to their purposes duing election time and leave it to the sheep electorate to latch on to the diversion and ignore the facts.
Stories get "crossed" at the TV station, and it should be noted that TV is only 60 years old.
If a few of those bigger that life stories that TV has brought us over the years are frauds, and I say they are, then it becomes imperative for us to see television as the "lyin old ******" that it is.
During the Viet Nam war it was perfectly clear that if you did not go to College you were draft bait. It was understood. 1 road avioded the draft and the other put you in line for it.
Kerry simply carried that thinking over to the present moment. If I am not mistaken the man was injured while in the service. Leave it to the piss ants to try to convert the facts to their purposes duing election time and leave it to the sheep electorate to latch on to the diversion and ignore the facts.
Stories get "crossed" at the TV station, and it should be noted that TV is only 60 years old.
If a few of those bigger that life stories that TV has brought us over the years are frauds, and I say they are, then it becomes imperative for us to see television as the "lyin old ******" that it is.
This was what Kerry was supposed to say: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
This is what Kerry actually said: "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
The first is clearly an insult against President Bush. The second is less clear in regards to who it insults. Are the troops sent to Iraq stupid while those not sent to Iraq are not stupid? That seems odd that the divisions and groups specifically selected for Iraq would all be the stupid ones and that these groups would have been stratified from others based on academic experience. After all, all officers *do* study, *do* do their homework, and *do* try to be smart and every group in the army has officers. In fact, to claim that Kerry's actual statement refers to the troops in Iraq is rather stupid. Army soldiers choose to enter the army - they do not choose their combat arena. In contrast, leaders do choose the combat arena. It is quite apparent that many people like attacking Kerry - so much so that they suspend their ability to read critically in order to do so.
This was Kerry's apology: ""I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended. As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: My poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and [was] never intended to refer to any troop."
As stated above, his statement, while botched, was also misinterpreted by those thinking he was insulting our soldiers. His botched statement did not specify the subject and the meaning/language of that statement is not consistent with the American soldiers as the subject. His intended statement was more clear that President Bush was the unmentioned subject. However, he goes beyond this to offer apology to any person who was offended and to state that he never intended to make a negative intelligence comment about a soldier.
What several anti-Kerry voices have claimed to be the content of his statement, however, does bear some truth, sadly enough. When you can't get a scholarship to college and can't pay for it on your own, or when you can't get into college, your prospects for gainful employment at a level offering a good standard of living are strongly limited. The army is one of the few institutions that offers those individuals good pay and good support/training. It is an opportunity that may be taken out of necessity by these people with less education. Those individuals with more education have a broader range of employment options at a strong standard of living and have less economic incentive to join the army. Not studying and being intellectually lazy can leave you "stuck" in a position where joining the army is the best employment option for you.
Hey, I'm not shouting "Kerry for president," but any man deserves the respect of a truthful appraisal. Criticize him for something he actually did do or say - not just the words/meanings you have put in his mouth.
This is what Kerry actually said: "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
The first is clearly an insult against President Bush. The second is less clear in regards to who it insults. Are the troops sent to Iraq stupid while those not sent to Iraq are not stupid? That seems odd that the divisions and groups specifically selected for Iraq would all be the stupid ones and that these groups would have been stratified from others based on academic experience. After all, all officers *do* study, *do* do their homework, and *do* try to be smart and every group in the army has officers. In fact, to claim that Kerry's actual statement refers to the troops in Iraq is rather stupid. Army soldiers choose to enter the army - they do not choose their combat arena. In contrast, leaders do choose the combat arena. It is quite apparent that many people like attacking Kerry - so much so that they suspend their ability to read critically in order to do so.
This was Kerry's apology: ""I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended. As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: My poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and [was] never intended to refer to any troop."
As stated above, his statement, while botched, was also misinterpreted by those thinking he was insulting our soldiers. His botched statement did not specify the subject and the meaning/language of that statement is not consistent with the American soldiers as the subject. His intended statement was more clear that President Bush was the unmentioned subject. However, he goes beyond this to offer apology to any person who was offended and to state that he never intended to make a negative intelligence comment about a soldier.
What several anti-Kerry voices have claimed to be the content of his statement, however, does bear some truth, sadly enough. When you can't get a scholarship to college and can't pay for it on your own, or when you can't get into college, your prospects for gainful employment at a level offering a good standard of living are strongly limited. The army is one of the few institutions that offers those individuals good pay and good support/training. It is an opportunity that may be taken out of necessity by these people with less education. Those individuals with more education have a broader range of employment options at a strong standard of living and have less economic incentive to join the army. Not studying and being intellectually lazy can leave you "stuck" in a position where joining the army is the best employment option for you.
Hey, I'm not shouting "Kerry for president," but any man deserves the respect of a truthful appraisal. Criticize him for something he actually did do or say - not just the words/meanings you have put in his mouth.
| benjmd wrote: |
|
Hey, I'm not shouting "Kerry for president," but any man deserves the respect of a truthful appraisal. Criticize him for something he actually did do or say - not just the words/meanings you have put in his mouth. |
Kerry got a truthful appraisal. Perhaps you missed this ?
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | ||
| This puts yesterday's statement in a different light.
Tell us what you really think John
Kerry's '72 Army Comments Mirror Latest John Kerry is no longer a viable Presidential Candidate. BTW, Kerry did not apologize, he said he regrets words were misinterpreted. His words were NOT misinterpreted. He may have botched a joke, but what he said was wrong and he needs to apologize for it instead of saying we misunderstood him, and he needs to do it by itself without making more political statements at the same time. |
i dont really see what the big deal is he said something that was worded badly.
it was aimed at the president not the troops.
it was aimed at the president not the troops.
Send Keys,
My post responds to the things that you quoted with one exception as noted below. I specifically described why I considered the things you have quoted (below my current comments) to be erroneous. Read it again more carefully.
However, I did not fully address the link to Kerry's '72 comments. Now, it has been 34 years since he made those statements. That this is cited as a compelling element of interpretation for his recent gaffe is not very intellectually rigorous. That this statement, made 34 years ago, was made by a man who had just come back from combat should add a measure of interpretation reflective of the particular context. Kerry's comments in 1972 were also fairly accurate. College was an "out" to avoid war, and in 1972 (just as now, and just as I have already discussed in my previous post), the army was an extremely viable alternative for people who would otherwise enter into low-paying employment or have few options for advancement. In addition, the GI bill encouraged those persons without the educational accomplishment or finances to get into college on their own to use the military as a stepping stone. While this is not inherently a bad thing, it is true that it allows for the army to consist predominantly of poorly educated individuals. Furthermore, a drafted army would mean having a labor force that was inherently less educated than the average American citizen because of the college-exclusion rule.
I do not consider your comments nor those of "Star Wars Fanatic" to constitute a "truthful appraisal." Your words reflect an inaccurate interpretation of the series of events discussed in this thread.
My post responds to the things that you quoted with one exception as noted below. I specifically described why I considered the things you have quoted (below my current comments) to be erroneous. Read it again more carefully.
However, I did not fully address the link to Kerry's '72 comments. Now, it has been 34 years since he made those statements. That this is cited as a compelling element of interpretation for his recent gaffe is not very intellectually rigorous. That this statement, made 34 years ago, was made by a man who had just come back from combat should add a measure of interpretation reflective of the particular context. Kerry's comments in 1972 were also fairly accurate. College was an "out" to avoid war, and in 1972 (just as now, and just as I have already discussed in my previous post), the army was an extremely viable alternative for people who would otherwise enter into low-paying employment or have few options for advancement. In addition, the GI bill encouraged those persons without the educational accomplishment or finances to get into college on their own to use the military as a stepping stone. While this is not inherently a bad thing, it is true that it allows for the army to consist predominantly of poorly educated individuals. Furthermore, a drafted army would mean having a labor force that was inherently less educated than the average American citizen because of the college-exclusion rule.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | ||||||
Kerry got a truthful appraisal. Perhaps you missed this ?
|
I do not consider your comments nor those of "Star Wars Fanatic" to constitute a "truthful appraisal." Your words reflect an inaccurate interpretation of the series of events discussed in this thread.
| benjmd wrote: |
| Send Keys,
However, I did not fully address the link to Kerry's '72 comments. Now, it has been 34 years since he made those statements. That this is cited as a compelling element of interpretation for his recent gaffe is not very intellectually rigorous. |
Oh.
Perhaps you missed the '94 Presidential Elections?
john kerrys comment was very stupid becasue ppl is trying to get money for their studys by signing up at the army and its not thier fault they are being sent to iraq
Senator Kerry is correct, as usual. Many of the subhumans populating the U.S. war machine are quite marignal individuals with limited prospects, which is of course why they are there in the first place. They simply have nowhere else to go and can't do any better than to sponge off the public dole called the military. They are the new "welfare kings and queens".
Kerry has absolutely no need to apologize to anyone at all. He simply told the truth, reminding us (again) that the American Emperor wears no clothes. And has no brain (Iraq). Or Heart (prisoner torture). Or courage (truant during the Vietnam War).
Kerry did not insult the military freeloaders. They insult themselves, and you as a taxpayer, by reaching (deeply) into your wallet, and by not having the initiative to do what Republicans are always screaming (at others) to do: get off welfare (the military) and get a job! (Other than raping and then murdering Iraqi women.) And children. And men.
Amen.
Kerry has absolutely no need to apologize to anyone at all. He simply told the truth, reminding us (again) that the American Emperor wears no clothes. And has no brain (Iraq). Or Heart (prisoner torture). Or courage (truant during the Vietnam War).
Kerry did not insult the military freeloaders. They insult themselves, and you as a taxpayer, by reaching (deeply) into your wallet, and by not having the initiative to do what Republicans are always screaming (at others) to do: get off welfare (the military) and get a job! (Other than raping and then murdering Iraqi women.) And children. And men.
Amen.
Well I suppose that letting Saddam kill and rape tens of thousands of people is better, and where is the evidence for US troop rape? And what are you talking about, "war machine?" If we were are "war machine" we would have already conquered the entire world, or at least tried to, but if you don't recall, the only times we have gone to war, it has been at our defense (World War II), or someone elses, (Iraq War).
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| Well I suppose that letting Saddam kill and rape tens of thousands of people is better, and where is the evidence for US troop rape? And what are you talking about, "war machine?" If we were are "war machine" we would have already conquered the entire world, or at least tried to, but if you don't recall, the only times we have gone to war, it has been at our defense (World War II), or someone elses, (Iraq War). |
Sometimes I think we need to step back and ask if we are really doing good. Not what people 'think' is good, but is good coming from our actions. I do not think that it is. Since the U.S. invaded iraq, we, America, have killed somewhere between 100,000-600,000(BBC) Iraqis. It is estimated that the death toll under Saddam was from 40,000-300,000(google).
And this man, where have you been?
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| ... and where is the evidence for US troop rape? |
EVIDENCE:EXIBIT A:BBC: Iraq rape soldier jailed for life.
We aren't doing good there. There are some of our nations best there, risking their lives willingly because they have been convinced by our big balled, little brained leaders in which we place our faith, that they are fighting the good fight - but when the outcome is bad, then how good is the fight you are fighting. People are dieing, US and Iraqi, in vain. War does nothing but kill the hope for peace. Only through cultural empathy and diplomacy will any good come to be.
I only hope that we can salvage this soon.
| eznet wrote: | ||
Sometimes I think we need to step back and ask if we are really doing good. Not what people 'think' is good, but is good coming from our actions. I do not think that it is. Since the U.S. invaded iraq, we, America, have killed somewhere between 100,000-600,000(BBC) Iraqis. It is estimated that the death toll under Saddam was from 40,000-300,000(google). |
The first number is way too vague, first of all, second of all, here is another article that says that there were between 47,000 and 57,000 deaths (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/casualties.html) see the end of the article, also see here. How many of those deaths are directly the cause of terrorists? How many are the direct cause of Iraqis attacking the US troops?
The second number is too vague as well, here is a study that says 601,027 (sourced here).
| eznet wrote: | ||
|
And this man, where have you been?
EVIDENCE:EXIBIT A:BBC: Iraq rape soldier jailed for life. |
Sorry I forgot about that incident, is there any others? Cause only one rape isn't much, compared to say the UK and Wales, which had an estimated 80,000 rape cases in 2001 (source here) In 2004 in the US there were 94,000 (sourced here). If you're really concerned about rape, you could be more help elsewhere. Also the fact that that soldier was
| Quote: |
| jailed for life |
| eznet wrote: |
| Only through cultural empathy and diplomacy will any good come to be. |
Yea, you keep thinking that, cause, in case you haven't noticed, that won't happen, and, unless I am forgetting something, that has never happened. That isn't gonna happen with terrorists, terrorists can't be bargained with, they don't listen to anything, the only thing that they will negotiate, is the total killing of off anyone who doesn't believe what they believe, and that, is something no one wants.
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
|
The first number is way too vague, first of all, second of all, here is another article that says that there were between 47,000 and 57,000 deaths (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/casualties.html) see the end of the article, also see here. How many of those deaths are directly the cause of terrorists? How many are the direct cause of Iraqis attacking the US troops? |
Okay, lets negate the mere 50,000 then because its not a quarter of a million? Is that what you suggest? I tend to shy away from sites with names so implicit... 'wearetheauthority.com' - the resources which I was citeing were sources from which I try get my news... associated and indipendant NEWS agencies. But its cool... you get your 'facts' where you choose... I mean after all, facts are interpretable, right?
I will give you that, there is no doubt that Iraqis attack and kill each other a lot. With that said, much of this has come about as a result of the unrest we stirred up. We may not be killing everyone that dies but our actions have set these things in motion - what is scary is that it may be to the point that there is no easy reversal.
There is no doubt, ol SoDammInsain was a baddd man but that does not by default make the deaths at our hands cancel out. I, not anyone, is making the claim that things weren't bad in Iraq and couldn't use change but best I can tell, ol' Bush has no proof, other than the voice in his head, that God tells him his wants... so who the fank makes us king of the world with the right to choose who's life is lost?
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
| If you're really concerned about rape, you could be more help elsewhere......So, that means that is wasn't supported by other US Troops. Or by anyone for that matter. |
Are you serious? This is your stance for my response providing you with information that you asked for? I see why you feel as you do... way to turn things around there, Speedy. Your quick aren't you? Of course no one supports it and I would sure as heck hope there would be punishment for it... you act like this nullifies it... the damage is done. It happened because of us. You may not like that, but thats the truth of it. Unless you think this guy, wearing a US uniform would have wound up in the families home with an AK without our invasion of Iraq... if thats the case, do, please share.
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
|
Yea, you keep thinking that, cause, in case you haven't noticed, that won't happen, and, unless I am forgetting something, that has never happened. That isn't gonna happen with terrorists, terrorists can't be bargained with, they don't listen to anything, the only thing that they will negotiate, is the total killing of off anyone who doesn't believe what they believe, and that, is something no one wants. |
Answer me this. China invades the US to free you from your horrible President Bush. You take up arms and kill as many of them as you see walking down the road - the occupying force - are you a terrorist? I stand
| eznet wrote: |
| Only through cultural empathy and diplomacy will any good come to be. |
my initial statement, it is the only way. I did not, however, say that it would happen. Why? Because there are so many people like you in the world, that share your negative - "the world is evil, stupid and hasn't no capacity to reason so there for must be killed into knowing their wrongs (unless you are American or American ally)."
"Yea!" for the sane, empathetic people of the world - we get to try to make peace with each other through people like you! There is nothing in any of this, on either side, that Muhammad, Jesus, or Buddha would agree with. Nothing.
| eznet wrote: | ||
Okay, lets negate the mere 50,000 then because its not a quarter of a million? Is that what you suggest? I tend to shy away from sites with names so implicit... 'wearetheauthority.com' - the resources which I was citeing were sources from which I try get my news... associated and indipendant NEWS agencies. But its cool... you get your 'facts' where you choose... I mean after all, facts are interpretable, right? |
You do have a point there, I did not look at where I got my facts from, I just Google'd it, also, I do, however, consider http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ to be authentic.
| eznet wrote: |
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I will give you that, there is no doubt that Iraqis attack and kill each other a lot. With that said, much of this has come about as a result of the unrest we stirred up. We may not be killing everyone that dies but our actions have set these things in motion - what is scary is that it may be to the point that there is no easy reversal. |
Also, we stopped a lot more killing, so, what do you want? A thousand Iraqis dieing? Or tens of thousands? I also do think that we need to leave Iraq, but we shouldn't run with our tail between our legs, and we shouldn't leave a country that is has terrorists setting off bombs everyday. We should slowly withdraw and train the Iraq Police to take over, so far, they have not shown they are able to do that.
| eznet wrote: | ||
Are you serious? This is your stance for my response providing you with information that you asked for? I see why you feel as you do... way to turn things around there, Speedy. Your quick aren't you? Of course no one supports it and I would sure as heck hope there would be punishment for it... you act like this nullifies it... the damage is done. It happened because of us. You may not like that, but thats the truth of it. Unless you think this guy, wearing a US uniform would have wound up in the families home with an AK without our invasion of Iraq... if thats the case, do, please share. |
Thanks for that compliment (I think) anyways, I think I came across wrong, I did not mean to say I don't care that someone was raped, I hate it as much as you do, but to say that the US Troops should leave because they are rapists, when in reality it was the action of one person, that kinda clouds the issue.
| eznet wrote: | ||
Answer me this. China invades the US to free you from your horrible President Bush. You take up arms and kill as many of them as you see walking down the road - the occupying force - are you a terrorist? |
Well, there is a major difference between that scenario, and Iraqs position, they wanted us to come free them from Saddam, we don't want China to "free" us from our "horrible" President Bush. In fact the terrorists who are in Iraq were terrorists before we came. That is, in fact, one of the reasons we invaded Iraq, to get rid of the terrorists threatening us, and the rest of the world.
| eznet wrote: | ||
|
I stand
my initial statement, it is the only way. I did not, however, say that it would happen. Why? Because there are so many people like you in the world, that share your negative - "the world is evil, stupid and hasn't no capacity to reason so there for must be killed into knowing their wrongs (unless you are American or American ally)." "Yea!" for the sane, empathetic people of the world - we get to try to make peace with each other through people like you! There is nothing in any of this, on either side, that Muhammad, Jesus, or Buddha would agree with. Nothing. |
Lol, I don't want them to be killed either, but they are giving us no choice, in today's world, it is either defend yourself, or be killed.
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