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Woman gets raped, it's her fault?





S3nd K3ys
Quote:

Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks

Richard Kerbaj
October 26, 2006

THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

Muslim community leaders were yesterday outraged and offended by Sheik Hilali's remarks, insisting the cleric was no longer worthy of his title as Australia's mufti.

Young Muslim adviser Iktimal Hage-Ali - who does not wear a hijab - said the Islamic headdress was not a "tool" worn to prevent rape and sexual harassment. "It's a symbol that readily identifies you as being Muslim, but just because you don't wear the headscarf doesn't mean that you're considered fresh meat for sale," the former member of John Howard's Muslim advisory board told The Australian. "The onus should not be on the female to not attract attention, it should be on males to learn how to control themselves."

Australia's most prominent female Muslim leader, Aziza Abdel-Halim, said the hijab did not "detract or add to a person's moral standards", while Islamic Council of Victoria spokesman Waleed Ali said it was "ignorant and naive" for anyone to believe that a hijab could stop sexual assault.

"Anyone who is foolish enough to believe that there is a relationship between rape or unwelcome sexual interference and the failure to wear a hijab, clearly has no understanding of the nature of sexual crime," he said.




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html


Women = Meat!? Weapons!?

If she stayed in her room it wouldn't have happened?

Come on... who in their right mind can say that crap with a straight face?
Animal
Quote:
"I would execute gays only if we catch them indulging in sodomy, Gary DeMar, popular Christian evangelical minister is quoted in the December, 2005 issue of Mother Jones.

Source

This quote was made by a "Popular Christian Evangelical Minister". A "leading Christian"?

Lots of comments are made by lots of people who could be described as "leaders" in their field - this just depends on what your agenda is. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you place a lot of so called "news stories" that present Muslims in a bad light. But would a comment like the above put all Christians under the same umbrella? All bigoted? I personally don't think so, and the source I've quoted has the same relevance to Christians as yours has to Muslims.
ocalhoun
Well, the argument almost makes sense, if you assume this statement:
'Proper islamic headress prevents rape.'
However, since this is not true (at least I don't think it is true, argue if you want.), the entire argument, which is based on that, falls apart.

It's like saying that leaving your fancy car unlocked in a bad 'hood causes the car to be stolen. Yes, it makes it more likely, but no, the fault for the theft does not rest on the car's owner for parking it there.
ahamed
I don't think his way is going to reduce the rape crime. In Saudi Arabia, so many girls got rapped while they were in hijab ...
m_furquan36
I agree just wearing a hijab and such does not at all reduce the crimes...
S3nd K3ys
Animal wrote:

This quote was made by a "Popular Christian Evangelical Minister". A "leading Christian"?
.


Popular?

Quote:
Gary DeMar,


Never heard of him. Nice try. Wink
scotty
I love it. He deserves to be publicly humiliated. I don't have a reason for that but I'm sure if you Google it you could find one.
S3nd K3ys
BTW, animal, I kind of doubt that 'true' crhistians and their leaders would allow that, unlike this...

http://www.gcn.ie/content/templates/newsupdate.aspx?articleid=1409&zoneid=4

Quote:
IT'S OK TO KILL GAYS - BRITISH IMAM

24 October 2006
imam.jpg The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.

Arshad Misbahi of the Manchester Central Mosque confirmed his views in a conversation to John Casson, a local psychotherapist.

Casson said: "I asked him if the execution of gay Muslims in Iran and Iraq was an acceptable punishment in Sharia law, or the result of culture, not religion.

"He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam: If the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts."

"I asked him what would be the British Muslim view? He repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified. They might result in the deaths of thousands but if this deterred millions from having sex, and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community."

"I checked again that this was not a matter of tradition, culture or local prejudice. 'No,' he said, 'It is part of the central tenets of Islam: that sex outside marriage is forbidden; this is stated in the Koran and the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated that these punishments were due to such behaviours.'"

Gay man rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said, "It is disturbing that some British imams are endorsing the execution of gay and lesbian Muslims.
haak_heu
ocalhoun wrote:
Well, the argument almost makes sense, if you assume this statement:
'Proper islamic headress prevents rape.'
However, since this is not true (at least I don't think it is true, argue if you want.), the entire argument, which is based on that, falls apart.

It's like saying that leaving your fancy car unlocked in a bad 'hood causes the car to be stolen. Yes, it makes it more likely, but no, the fault for the theft does not rest on the car's owner for parking it there.


well you are right in some sense but he will tell you that he left car open and also door was open and he parked it where ...there where there is high reports of taking of cars same is to the european countries and all those modest one , when a women is in hijab she dont attract for sex will a man go
for sex to women who attracts him or to whom he cant see how she looks
decision is on you , yes raping is crime and man should be punished who did
that but women should be controlled to it
high amount of rape cases are in southafrica, america , europe and australia and see countries which are tough enough like giving sentenced death to
commeter declines the cases in america most of cases are unreported this is all due to so called modest regarding this man he is racist againts islam and muslims and he has nothing to argue to learn and respect .
other thing Islam is good but practionars can be wrong and indeed they are wrong , so blaming of wrong thing of muslim is not islam , same is to say for other religions too.
as i said about those countries and areas what is the largest religion in them christianity so will it be said that rape is liked by christianity no definitly not , if a pop do rape is this mean this is view of christians there are alot of things almost all things now a days is wrong in christianity than what will you say there is verse in bible " if some one saw a women with lust he did it he be punished for it " and what christians do dear.. see
haak_heu
S3nd K3ys wrote:
BTW, animal, I kind of doubt that 'true' crhistians and their leaders would allow that, unlike this...

http://www.gcn.ie/content/templates/newsupdate.aspx?articleid=1409&zoneid=4

Quote:
IT'S OK TO KILL GAYS - BRITISH IMAM

24 October 2006
imam.jpg The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.

Arshad Misbahi of the Manchester Central Mosque confirmed his views in a conversation to John Casson, a local psychotherapist.

Casson said: "I asked him if the execution of gay Muslims in Iran and Iraq was an acceptable punishment in Sharia law, or the result of culture, not religion.

"He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam: If the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts."

"I asked him what would be the British Muslim view? He repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified. They might result in the deaths of thousands but if this deterred millions from having sex, and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community."

"I checked again that this was not a matter of tradition, culture or local prejudice. 'No,' he said, 'It is part of the central tenets of Islam: that sex outside marriage is forbidden; this is stated in the Koran and the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated that these punishments were due to such behaviours.'"

Gay man rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said, "It is disturbing that some British imams are endorsing the execution of gay and lesbian Muslims.


he is right but you do not analyze it man as you have not such brain ...
well gay is not allowed in any religion after this you will say for sex with childrens allowed as now a days 13 or before is right for sex i know you law still dont allow for 13 but it is practised if this is called rape and it is because it is not a natural phenomenon as genital organs are for sex not ass and mouth so than in islamic sharia he must be executed ...but why ??
here is answer if some one did a rape and he is caught and he is given punishment for some years he will do it again and other will see and this will start growing because it is easy to escape many are un reported or may be she will not identify nor people will identify ...
than this disease will grow and this is doing in westren countries and america but if you execute him in public place and if there will be very few cases done this is done if proved .
what oh no i will be executed so i will not do this government is strict ...
so what there will be very very neglagable cases ....

well are you gay ???
this site is for gays

so you regularly visit it.
haak_heu
S3nd K3ys wrote:
BTW, animal, I kind of doubt that 'true' crhistians and their leaders would allow that, unlike this...


well you did not read below
POPE ATTACKS 'WEAK' GAY RELATIONSHIPS - AGAIN
20 October 2006

and go and serach what christanity says about gay and see bible...
pope can not talk openly ...
Tiger
I am sure that no woman invites rape. Rape is by nature non-consensual sex - that is, it takes place against a woman's will. Also, rape is a power play where a man tries to excercise power over his victim.

I would say that in the case quoted above these young men obviously felt that they should teach all women not wearing a head covering a lesson and it had nothing to do with being the women being provocative. They probably did it with the knowledge and approval of their religious leaders. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

Also, rape is a sin - even in Islam, and there is no justification for it whatsoever. What's more a man who rapes is not excercising self-control, morality or public responsibility (anti-social behaviour) and should be punished accordingly.

Any religious leader making such comments should be stripped of his authority, arrested and deported.

I live in a country with high incidences of rape, and the cause is not provocative women, but weak men who feel powerless within society.

Even if a woman dresses provocatively or indecently, she has the right to choose whether and whom she will have sex with.

And what about all those muslim men who watch belly dancers. The art of belly dancing in muslim countries is designed provoke the watcher to sexual excitement. How does that fit in with Islamic law?
Muffi
bla bla bla.. those who say its due to ISLAM or has anything to do with the word MUSLIM or CHRISTIAN, i think they are just trying hard to hide there dark desires or bad deeds through it.

and its not the religon that matter, but humanity that should. i think i got nothing to care about other then myself. if i am clean & clear, i can expect the same from others.. and too sorry to tell you, if you are not yourself clean & clear, you got no right to point a finger at anyone's life, judgements, morals, and what-so-ever ..
mattchun
that's the logical thinking of a Muslin, RIDICULOUS!
chrismen
Yeah... I don't like that way of thinking. Blaming women of rape because of how they dress. WTF?
S3nd K3ys
Muffi wrote:
if i am clean & clear, i can expect the same from others..


Um. Sure you do, kid. Sure you do.

Quote:
and too sorry to tell you, if you are not yourself clean & clear, you got no right to point a finger at anyone's life, judgements, morals, and what-so-ever ..


My right to point fingers starts when your right to freedom goes beyond your freedom and interferes with mine. Including your judgements, morals and what-so-ever. Wink
7Pound7
What in the world makes any man think he can sexually harass a female, even if she walks the road naked?
Those men are slaves of their penis, no more than stupid morons. This muslim ali baba of course named Mohammed 101 should be jailed for saying such statements. It is a human rights crime
riyadh
it's funny how the females are always blamed when they get raped. i think it's society's fault. in Bangladesh, there are hundreds of rape cases pending. i don't if u've seen the punishment in the a muslim country for rape - the men have their thing chopped off (tht's gotta hurt!)
ahamed
mattchun wrote:
that's the logical thinking of a Muslin, RIDICULOUS!


Look u can't blame all muslims for the un-respectable comment of a muslim. In fact, what the muslim leader said it's totally not supported by the local australian muslim community as well as the world muslim people. And again I ask everybody to respect all religion and not blame the religion what a perticular people said from the religion group.
ahamed
riyadh wrote:
i think it's society's fault.


U can't blame society for the rape on women. Society never teach people about this.
ocalhoun
ahamed wrote:


U can't blame society for the rape on women. Society never teach people about this.

1: You can blame whatever you want for anything: theres no laws against blaming things.
2: I blame society for these things because it 'never teach people about this.'
7Pound7
riyadh wrote:
it's funny how the females are always blamed when they get raped. i think it's society's fault. in Bangladesh, there are hundreds of rape cases pending. i don't if u've seen the punishment in the a muslim country for rape - the men have their thing chopped off (tht's gotta hurt!)


This is ridiculous, society is not to be blamed.

Just grab the pigs of men that cannot control their sexual lust and harass woment with their penis_out_of_control

let them harrass their own wife, but probably they don't have a wife yet, because they are pigs anyway

7Pound7
fasa
It still makes me wonder, how people like that can even be allowed into any religious community anywhere in the first place, as their biggest disservice is to that community.
cloudship
sound very ill... Shocked
smarter
Any religion has its fanatics/fundamentalists. On the other hand Islam has indeed too many fanatics. This is THE PROBLEM!

You are free to practice your religion but violence against those who do not share your beliefs is UNACCEPTABLE!
judelover
funny. robbers will blame the houseowner for not not having his house tightly locked....saddam was hanged by bush because he was accused of possibly playing with fire within his own house, so bush burned down saddam's house to rescue his family, while unfortunately no matches was to be found in the end. however bush would say that he was doing so to prevent a possible fire that, if really saddam set, would do harm to his neighbors.
robbers or bush, who's more reasonless?
there's hardly any wonder there're people insisting that raped women are seducing (which i strongly disapprove of of course), compared to some people in the world who do something for nothing or for no good reason at all.
7Pound7
In fact, why are not more people replying to this thread?
Mannix
This is completely stupid, the rapist deserves 100% of the blame because he was the one who did it. It's like saying that someone who doesn't put bars on their windows and someone breaks one and comes through to steal is reponsible for the burgrly.
Kelvin
it just show that they are too weak to control their barbaric desires and thus require women to clothe themsleves properly or risk being raped as a consequence. For crying out loud, since when has clothing ever stopped a woman fro being raped. As the papers reported, so many instances of grandmothers in headscarf being raped... where is the logic in that?

All this crap really reflects the weakness of men. Do not expose your flesh to us or we may just rape u and it's your fault, not us men. It's their sick heads that need covering. They Just need to wrap a blanket round their filthy heads, and if all else fails set it aflame. God said to gourge out ones own eye to prevent sin/lust. So i guess they just can't aford to lose their eyes and prefer blaming it on the 'weaker' sex. it's a disgrace to the civilised society and to men as a whole.
S3nd K3ys
judelover wrote:
funny. robbers will blame the houseowner for not not having his house tightly locked....saddam was hanged by bush because he was accused of possibly playing with fire within his own house, so bush burned down saddam's house to rescue his family, while unfortunately no matches was to be found in the end. however bush would say that he was doing so to prevent a possible fire that, if really saddam set, would do harm to his neighbors.
robbers or bush, who's more reasonless?
there's hardly any wonder there're people insisting that raped women are seducing (which i strongly disapprove of of course), compared to some people in the world who do something for nothing or for no good reason at all.


If you want to start a I Hate Bush thread, go for it. You can cry about Bush all you want, fact is he went in and removed a murderer. Yes, Saddam MURDERED HUNDREDS OF THOUSNANDS of his own so called FAMILY, amung other things.

So lets stay on topic and not let your emotions get in the way of common sense.
paul_indo
riyadh wrote:
it's funny how the females are always blamed when they get raped. i think it's society's fault. in Bangladesh, there are hundreds of rape cases pending. i don't if u've seen the punishment in the a muslim country for rape - the men have their thing chopped off (tht's gotta hurt!)


Where on earth did you hear that?

I have never heard of such a thing, in fact usually only the woman is punished for rape in most muslim countries, as far as I have heard.

Can you give a link to any reports that confirm what you say here?
busman
S3nd K3ys wrote:
judelover wrote:
funny. robbers will blame the houseowner for not not having his house tightly locked....saddam was hanged by bush because he was accused of possibly playing with fire within his own house, so bush burned down saddam's house to rescue his family, while unfortunately no matches was to be found in the end. however bush would say that he was doing so to prevent a possible fire that, if really saddam set, would do harm to his neighbors.
robbers or bush, who's more reasonless?
there's hardly any wonder there're people insisting that raped women are seducing (which i strongly disapprove of of course), compared to some people in the world who do something for nothing or for no good reason at all.


If you want to start a I Hate Bush thread, go for it. You can cry about Bush all you want, fact is he went in and removed a murderer. Yes, Saddam MURDERED HUNDREDS OF THOUSNANDS of his own so called FAMILY, amung other things.

So lets stay on topic and not let your emotions get in the way of common sense.

Hahahahaha... wow. Dude Bush sucked but that's beside the point which you do have very correct.
Bikerman
paul_indo wrote:
riyadh wrote:
it's funny how the females are always blamed when they get raped. i think it's society's fault. in Bangladesh, there are hundreds of rape cases pending. i don't if u've seen the punishment in the a muslim country for rape - the men have their thing chopped off (tht's gotta hurt!)


Where on earth did you hear that?

I have never heard of such a thing, in fact usually only the woman is punished for rape in most muslim countries, as far as I have heard.

Can you give a link to any reports that confirm what you say here?

In fact, what he is saying is offensive nonsense.
Here's a REAL story about the treatment of raped women in Bangladesh.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/afp-news-agency-agence-france-presse/raped-bangladeshi-girl-dies-after-whipping-punishment/177244342329226

Sharia law is heavily biased against women, despite what some well meaning apologists say. The whole system is from a time in which things were so different that it makes the strict sharia law obsolete at best and barbaric in many cases. Sharia gives precedent to oral testimony. Eye-witness testimony trumps any scientific evidence - such as fingerprints, DNA, etc.
If you have DNA evidence that a man committed rape then all he needs to do is produce a witness who says otherwise - case dismissed. Then, of course, the obscenity of the 'honour' system kicks in. The offence is seen to be not against the woman, but against the honour of the family. This incredible bullshit leads to the situation where otherwise decent men feel it is their duty to punish, often kill, a female relative for being raped (or for refusing a forced marriage, or for a number of different reasons).
Apologists for this barbarity turn my stomach.
menino
I've seen women in the gulf states raped, and they try to blame the women, even though the women are covered properly. In Saudi Arabia, it is compulsory to wear the Hijab, and I've seen this about 10 years ago, though not lately, so not sure how the situation on the hijab wearing has changed now.
Still women get raped, and a lot of it goes unpublished in the media.

In Kuwait also, women get raped, and left int he desert, and sometimes the culprits are found and punished, but one has to wonder how many are not reported, as these people seem to be doing it on a regular basis.
Some even force these women into prostitution / flesh trade, after doing ther deed, which is worse.
I don't think Saudi Arabia is going to back down on the statement that women are to be blamed for being raped. Its dangerous for women to be there, and in some places, even young men... as I had read in the news sometime back, and from friends who were there.

In Saudi, I don't know the punishment for being charged with rape, but if you steal, your hands are chopped off, and if you are caught as a murderer, you are sentenced to death by hanging.
deanhills
menino wrote:
In Saudi, I don't know the punishment for being charged with rape, but if you steal, your hands are chopped off, and if you are caught as a murderer, you are sentenced to death by hanging.
Agreed. Not a good place to be at all. Particularly for women. I'm almost certain if this country continues this practice that very soon there is going to be a severe backlash in its own country.
bukaida
In general , we cannot dictate how or what the other people will wear. Recently in India, there were lots of debates and processions regarding this. One of the girls holding a placard stating " your eyes have sinful looks and you are telling me to wear Burkha?" Even our honourable supreme court has said that no one can question the character of a rape victim. However no law can change it unless we change ourself.
silverdown
I don't know what to say but... "wow" how in the world is it there fault?. Shocked
mengshi200
I understand,woman should be decency and reducing seduction.All society should not be encouraging sex self-indulgence.not simple who are right or wrong.
tahayassen
It would be very interesting to see if your clothing modesty affects your chance of being raped. There should be a study done about it. If it does increase your chance of being raped, then he might have a point. It's like wearing a sign that says "MURDER ME!", but then acting surprised when you have someone come after you.
mgeek
Quote:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html


Women = Meat!? Weapons!?

If she stayed in her room it wouldn't have happened?

Come on... who in their right mind can say that crap with a straight face?


Obviously the Sheik quoted in the report. And there are others who think the same way.
Gitesh
Few days back some police officer of higher rank was found quoting that its totally Womens fault when they clothe wrongly and should be held responsible for the rape crime., this happened in New Delhi. India , and somehow the media captured the video., it flashed on prime time few days and then everything went to normal., the fact that a policeman was high ranked and is holding the extremist views is so shocking that we can just imagine the way of thinking of majority population in India. It felt ridiculous but thats the way it happens in India. the officer moved on without any punishment or any problem and doing his job as usual.
tingkagol
mengshi200 wrote:
I understand,woman should be decency and reducing seduction.All society should not be encouraging sex self-indulgence.not simple who are right or wrong.

I believe it is this gender apartheid in places like Saudi Arabia that is causing a lot of males to repress sexual urges to such a point when they can no longer contain them.

Apart from the usual women-blamed-for-being-raped news article, I've heard stories about men in Jeddah engaging in bestiality. They would dig holes in the ground and once a beast falls into their trap (usually a donkey) they immediately tie its legs and engage in sexual intercourse with the helpless animal. Speaks volumes on how sexually oppressed these people are.

Anyway, a friend recently came back to the Philippines after working in Saudi Arabia for a good 2 years. He was even sexually harassed in the airport terminal. This particular encounter involved two arab clerks - that upon seeing my friend, one points at him, takes his pants down and bends over as if to suggest anal sex. His companion then laughs. My friend was like "wtf" and paid no mind to them.

There are lots of stories of Arab men making sexual advances to Filipino men, supposedly because Filipinos can't grow beards and have smooth, non-hairy skin, and therefore considered somewhat like a female. Basically you're led to believe Arab men will f*ck anyone who doesn't resemble the next hairy and beard-faced arab.

On a side note, homosexuals are (supposedly) having a field day over there. This friend of mine also happens to know a homosexual Pinoy out there who's having the 'time of his life' - getting paid to have sex with arabs. According to him, business is "booming" and he's always paid handsomely every time.
ajirdna
The same kind of excuse for rape is frenquently used in the west, not only in the muslim countries. The fact is, no matter what woman wares in no circumstances a man has a freedom to rape. Raping is always an illegal attack on other person and it should be treated as such.
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