Hi,
I am a Christian by birth. I was a regular chruch goer and beliver of God. I was a choir boy at our church. Everythign went smooth and I got a name around as a 'goodie goodie boy'...
I think it happened when I grown enough to think wisely and testify each and everything...
One fine day I started thinking this way ' If Adam and Eve are the first people... Whats the relation between me and my wife?' .... I had no answer.
One more thing striked me ' If Adam and Eve had two sons that is Coin and Abel.. How did the population multiplied...'???
I got confused completely.... I read the bible again and again but I had no answer for my 2 questions.
In the middle of suday mass I started thinking the same thing... I was restless..
I asked the church father about my questions... Do you think he cleared my doubt... No...
He just reminded me of 10 commandments ... that 'Don't Testify your God'
I have no answer my questions till date...
the side effects are ... I don't like to goto the church with full hearted.
I go along with my family or on celebrations...
Can any one clear my doubt?
But I have realised one thing for sure... There is no super power called God who operates this universe but the people.
God is people around you.
What happens when we are in trouble... we pray to the God ... But Does he ever came in front of anyone to solve the problem. No... but he sends people...
Just imagine I met with an accident on the raod... I call 'Oh Jesus Save Me'.... he never turned up but when I opened my eyes I am at the hospital and got to know that a passerby brought me to the hospital.....
This is my point... the passerby is God according to me.. What made him to save me ... Doesn't he has any other work?
The thing which striked on his mind that he should save me is the 'super power' ... may be...
So guys...
In my point of view ... the people around you are GODs... so treat them like God... so you'll never be in trouble.
If everyone follows my theory God is People ... just think... where is the room for problems in this world?
After saying all this I still go to church with my family having my 2 questions in my brain... just processing them again and again....
Why ??? Because whatever we speak... the inner fear is there always bcos we always get scared about the things which we don't understand or can't see.
Because we have been told about God and Devils since we started questioning about anything to our Parents.
I remember when I asked my mom Why jesus has a beard always ... my mom said 'shut up you should not ask such questions as he is the god he'll curse you then u'll be in problems.'
she could have simply told me that in those days the razor was not invented. ... 
I liked your post... a lot! Very sensible.
However, I'd really like to ask you... if you haven't got your two questions answered, and you're not going to church full-heartedly... then why do you still go to church at all?
| just-in wrote: |
Hi,
I am a Christian by birth. I was a regular chruch goer and beliver of God. I was a choir boy at our church. Everythign went smooth and I got a name around as a 'goodie goodie boy'...
I think it happened when I grown enough to think wisely and testify each and everything...
One fine day I started thinking this way ' If Adam and Eve are the first people... Whats the relation between me and my wife?' .... I had no answer.
One more thing striked me ' If Adam and Eve had two sons that is Coin and Abel.. How did the population multiplied...'???
I got confused completely.... I read the bible again and again but I had no answer for my 2 questions.
In the middle of suday mass I started thinking the same thing... I was restless..
I asked the church father about my questions... Do you think he cleared my doubt... No...
He just reminded me of 10 commandments ... that 'Don't Testify your God'
I have no answer my questions till date...
the side effects are ... I don't like to goto the church with full hearted.
I go along with my family or on celebrations...
Can any one clear my doubt?
But I have realised one thing for sure... There is no super power called God who operates this universe but the people.
God is people around you.
What happens when we are in trouble... we pray to the God ... But Does he ever came in front of anyone to solve the problem. No... but he sends people...
Just imagine I met with an accident on the raod... I call 'Oh Jesus Save Me'.... he never turned up but when I opened my eyes I am at the hospital and got to know that a passerby brought me to the hospital.....
This is my point... the passerby is God according to me.. What made him to save me ... Doesn't he has any other work?
The thing which striked on his mind that he should save me is the 'super power' ... may be...
So guys...
In my point of view ... the people around you are GODs... so treat them like God... so you'll never be in trouble.
If everyone follows my theory God is People ... just think... where is the room for problems in this world?
After saying all this I still go to church with my family having my 2 questions in my brain... just processing them again and again....
Why ??? Because whatever we speak... the inner fear is there always bcos we always get scared about the things which we don't understand or can't see.
Because we have been told about God and Devils since we started questioning about anything to our Parents.
I remember when I asked my mom Why jesus has a beard always ... my mom said 'shut up you should not ask such questions as he is the god he'll curse you then u'll be in problems.'
she could have simply told me that in those days the razor was not invented. ... |
Peace be upon you. I hope you are well.
I don't agree with the way you've acted. Just because Christianity is wrong, it does not mean ALL religions are wrong and God does not exist. You need to research Islam, Sikhism, and a few other religions, and find problems then ask followers about the problems, and elimenate religions one by one until you are left with a perfect religion.
If you want to try and find problems with Islam, PM me. I can tell you bad things Muslims have done, but i still haven't found a flaw with Islam.
In regards to the second part of your post. You seem to be at a lost what to call God. I don't think it's right you call humans gods. None of us are All-Knowing, All-Powerful or transcendental.
may God bless you.Hmm... I think you are on your way on becoming an atheist. I also started thinking the same... although I am an Hindu. Anyways sooner or later as you think upon it more, you will realise that you are right and god is a myth. No solid proof and congo you are now atheist. 
His definition of God is different from yours, loyal.
His definition of God is someone/something that actually gets physical things done when you really need them... I'm sure I haven't stated it exactly how the would have, but it's a guess...
Your idea of God, though, is quite different.
Anyway, I can pick flaws with just about any religion if I wanted to, and so can you... the best idea, according to me, is to either find the religion that most matches your own thoughts or to adopt the best ideals of all religions and live life according to these ideals.
| loyal wrote: |
...I don't agree with the way you've acted. Just because Christianity is wrong, it does not mean ALL religions are wrong and God does not exist. You need to research Islam, Sikhism, and a few other religions, and find problems then ask followers about the problems, and elimenate religions one by one until you are left with a perfect religion.
..... |
Well, one of his first issues was in thinking about how all of mankind arose from Adam and Eve. I assume Islam has a very similar tradition (except Eve is called Hawa, I think), so why dont you start there and see if you can explain to him how mankind populated the Earth with out mating with family members? | tidruG wrote: |
His definition of God is different from yours, loyal.
His definition of God is someone/something that actually gets physical things done when you really need them... I'm sure I haven't stated it exactly how the would have, but it's a guess...
Your idea of God, though, is quite different.
|
peace be upon you.
Have you heard of the expression "God helps those who help themselves?". That's one of the ideas of God. Another is "free will". God won't interfere because it will affect free will. Another is, in Islam, life is a test. God is testing whether we still believe in Him on earth.
| Quote: |
Anyway, I can pick flaws with just about any religion if I wanted to, and so can you... the best idea, according to me, is to either find the religion that most matches your own thoughts or to adopt the best ideals of all religions and live life according to these ideals. |
No actually i can't pick flaws with my religion. The hadiths were the only proper flaw. Then i later discovered it wasn't even a part of original Islam, nor does the Qur'an support it. So i can't really find any flaws in islam.
Islam already does match my ideals.
may God bless you. | HoboPelican wrote: |
| loyal wrote: | ...I don't agree with the way you've acted. Just because Christianity is wrong, it does not mean ALL religions are wrong and God does not exist. You need to research Islam, Sikhism, and a few other religions, and find problems then ask followers about the problems, and elimenate religions one by one until you are left with a perfect religion.
..... |
Well, one of his first issues was in thinking about how all of mankind arose from Adam and Eve. I assume Islam has a very similar tradition (except Eve is called Hawa, I think), so why dont you start there and see if you can explain to him how mankind populated the Earth with out mating with family members? |
Peace be upon you.
According to an Muslim child story book i read when i was younger:
Adam and Eve had twins. Then they had twins again.
The male of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
The female of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
(or it might be the other way round).
In the end, most of the population IS like this. Scientists have apparently traced eurpoens to seven different women. So seven different women gave birth to lots of europeans.
The same with dogs. All of the dogs came from seven wolves.
I read about that a long time ago, so i need to check the numbers and so on.
But anyway, that's how it happened, and science shows lots of populations are started by a few couples.
may God bless you. | loyal wrote: |
....Adam and Eve had twins. Then they had twins again.
The male of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
The female of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
(or it might be the other way round).
... |
Thanks, Loyal. Appreciate the info. I wonder when incest became a bad thing?Christianity is not wrong! It's followers are wrong. And we all are wrong for giving Christianity this bad face.
But Christ has forgiven us.
Hmm, your post was a bit nonsense but humorous... Your theory's still vague, anyway...
I'll give you the way I see things on the whole Adam and Eve situation.
I believe that Adam and Eve were created on the 8th day. The ones being talked about in Gen 1 were different from Adam and Eve. A & E did have other children besides Cain and Abel, but their not talked about till later so I won't get into that.
Anyway, to see some of the difference between Gen 1:26,27 and Gen 2:7, look at how they were created. In Gen 1, God spoke those into being while in Gen 2, God formed them. If you follow Gen in an exact timeline, it's easy to see where I got my opinion. Also, while we look at one day as being only 24 hours, God doesn't. His measure of time doesn't have to be the same as ours so while the rest of the 6th day and all of the 7th day could be a lot longer than those few hours that most people want to associate with it. It could have been thousands of years on Earth, plenty of time for the humans in Gen 1 to multiply.
I'll be glad to discuss this over with you anytime if you would like.
As far as not believing in a God, I've seen too many things that let me know that He does exist.
Hey Guys...
I don't want a fight between different religion here...
Hello loyal...
'peace be with you'!? ...
I did not mention that Christianity is bad and Don't expect me to join Islam..
This is what always been happening whenever anyone talks about GOD .. people start fighting for their own religion... WHY?
I don't want people fight for their religion here... please.
Lets talk about GOD the superpower in general.
Somebody called me an 'athiest' .... !!??
This is the known answer for me when I tell this story to anybody .. but one of my friend (who called me athiest) asked me a question after reading my post here...
Can anyone answer this ?
If there is no super power called 'GOD' how do we breathe unconciously? or who triggers the heart to pump the blood till u die...??? How does that activity starts...?
Once again let me mention ... lets not discuss different religion.
Lets discuss only GOD - the superpower, whether is there or not.
Somebody said 'Don't call humans as GOD' ... I can't understand why?
What is the defination of GOD?
According to me all the religion in this world describes the GOD as a power who can solve all kind of problems. (In short a 'Debugger' )
We never thank god unless we get into some problem and somehow we get out of it then we say with a deep breathe ' Thank God!'.
This is the reality.
Just think guys when do we remember God.... Does anyone remembers God when they get a cute girl on a Date... just to thank him 'hey god thanks a lot.. you made my day special by this beautiful gift' ...
I bet everyone maximum people call / remember the God only when they are in trouble.
So my theory... God is people .... why its wrong??
Imagine at midnight ...when my car stops on a highway... I need a lift ... thats my immediate prayer 'Hey god please help me ...somebody should give me lift'. ...
After 5 minutes a couple give me lift till the city...
Tell me whats wrong if I call the couple as GOD... ????
For Loyal:
Since you have mentioned more about quron and islam I am bound to reply.
I have a doubt on quron. According to me the Quron has been copied from Bible.
Why I say this almost everything which is there in Bible are there in Quron too with some added things and the way of praying has been changed.
I think in those days who wanted to create their own religion or have some power in the society ... just copied bible and changed something and created a new religion called 'the islam'.
This is my pure doubt... no complaints... | HoboPelican wrote: |
| loyal wrote: | ....Adam and Eve had twins. Then they had twins again.
The male of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
The female of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
(or it might be the other way round).
... |
Thanks, Loyal. Appreciate the info. I wonder when incest became a bad thing? |
Peace be upon you.
Yes incest is a bad thing. But not very very very early on. This is because the population needs to mutiply. The two example i stated was europe and dogs.
The story even tries to avoid incest between twins. It says one twin married another twin i.e. the twins of one twin did not marry each other.
may God bless you. | just-in wrote: |
Hey Guys...
I don't want a fight between different religion here...
Hello loyal...
'peace be with you'!? ...
|
Yes. Peace be with you. It's a Muslim/Christian greeting of peace.
I did not mention that Christianity is bad and Don't expect me to join Islam..
| Quote: |
This is what always been happening whenever anyone talks about GOD .. people start fighting for their own religion... WHY?
I don't want people fight for their religion here... please.
|
Not all people. Religious people fight for their own religion for two reasons:
-protecting religion.
-educating others
| Quote: |
If there is no super power called 'GOD' how do we breathe unconciously? or who triggers the heart to pump the blood till u die...??? How does that activity starts...?
|
But we DO do that. God made us like this. We made with pumping organs. We're not suits filled with magic dust to make us live
| Quote: |
Somebody said 'Don't call humans as GOD' ... I can't understand why?
What is the defination of GOD?
According to me all the religion in this world describes the GOD as a power who can solve all kind of problems. (In short a 'Debugger' )
We never thank god unless we get into some problem and somehow we get out of it then we say with a deep breathe ' Thank God!'.
|
Not true. Muslims thank God lots for loads of things. I say "in the name of God" before i go places, eat and so on.
| Quote: |
So my theory... God is people .... why its wrong??
Imagine at midnight ...when my car stops on a highway... I need a lift ... thats my immediate prayer 'Hey god please help me ...somebody should give me lift'. ...
After 5 minutes a couple give me lift till the city...
Tell me whats wrong if I call the couple as GOD... ????
|
Because only God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Most Merciful. There is nothing like that. You are trying to make the creation look like the Creator.
| Quote: |
For Loyal:
Since you have mentioned more about quron and islam I am bound to reply.
I have a doubt on quron. According to me the Quron has been copied from Bible.
|
Read it for yourself. It's not a copy.
| Quote: |
Why I say this almost everything which is there in Bible are there in Quron too with some added things and the way of praying has been changed.
I think in those days who wanted to create their own religion or have some power in the society ... just copied bible and changed something and created a new religion called 'the islam'.
This is my pure doubt... no complaints... |
Actually an illiterate camel trader named Muhammed, started recieving revelations. He told his community to stop worshipping idols and worship God One and Only Alone. In the end, he suceeded in turning lots of people to monotheism. It's impossible for an illiterate man to copy the Bible if he can't read it! Besides, the Bible was in a different language. How was he to read a different language when he can't read his own language?
may God bless you.For Loyal:
| Quote: |
| Actually an illiterate camel trader named Muhammed, started recieving revelations. He told his community to stop worshipping idols and worship God One and Only Alone. In the end, he suceeded in turning lots of people to monotheism. |
We don't have any proof whether he was literate or illiterate.
Actually the literacy is the main cause of this whole subject 'GOD'.
When the whole world was illiterate... some literate wrote whatever they thought and said thats the description of the superpower called GOD and tried to turn everybody on their way.
The different groups are called Christians, Muslims and so on....
| Quote: |
Yes. Peace be with you. It's a Muslim/Christian greeting of peace.
|
Does it makes any sense?. Just by typing 'Peace be with you' all the time you write something to me... am I going to get peace?
It again lies with me only. Its my behaviour and How I take things which matters not your words.
If I need peace I'll just go out with my friends.... thats enough. Peace is acheived.
Actually you are spoiling my peace by saying that 'peace be with you' all the time.
| Quote: |
But we DO do that. God made us like this. We made with pumping organs. We're not suits filled with magic dust to make us live
|
What are you talking when cloning is happening around?.
Again you say that 'God made us like this'.... That is the question... who is he? Does he exists?
| Quote: |
Not true. Muslims thank God lots for loads of things. I say "in the name of God" before i go places, eat and so on.
|
Do you eat in the name of GOD? Not by your hard earnings. You might be a Mosque supremo.
If you do anything in the name of God... Why are you here for freehosting? You should host your websites in the name of God... | Quote: |
| God won't interfere because it will affect free will. |
Then what is the purpose of God's existence at all? I mean, OK, let's say he did create the world... right, then, old chap! Thank you very much for this world and this universe and all! I really appreciate it, but I don't think I'm going to spend my life worshipping a God that can't/won't do anything else now that his job of creating everything is done.
| Quote: |
| God is testing whether we still believe in Him on earth. |
What's the point of it, then? If our whole life is spent in taking the test, what do we get at the end of it, a death?
And a moral question then... if Adam and Eve's children married each other, why is it now immoral to marry your own sister?
| Quote: |
| The story even tries to avoid incest between twins. It says one twin married another twin i.e. the twins of one twin did not marry each other. |
That doesn't make sense still... I mean, me and my sister are born an year nine months apart... we're not twins... is it OK for me to marry her?
As for the population issue... was it considered a sin back when the population was low to marry your own sister, but Adam and Eve's children did it anyway ONLY to improve the situation? well, now that the population is high, should we start preventing marriages between more people (I'm sure we can make it a sin to marry out of your religion) to bring to population growth back under control?
| Quote: |
| If there is no super power called 'GOD' how do we breathe unconciously? or who triggers the heart to pump the blood till u die...??? How does that activity starts...? |
Nerve impulse... I'm sure you're probably get a much better detailed reply from Bikerman, if you invite him to this thread.
| Quote: |
| When the whole world was illiterate... some literate wrote whatever they thought and said thats the description of the superpower called GOD and tried to turn everybody on their way. |
Illiterate would have to be a subjective term. I am quite literate in the English language... however, you can say that I am quite illiterate as far as Chinese is concerned. When language started to develop, literature was formed. People started writing down their words, and others started reading. Someone would HAVE to be literate to be able to read and write in that particular language.
| Quote: |
| If you do anything in the name of God... Why are you here for freehosting? You should host your websites in the name of God... |
You're losing track of your rationality.
Calm down. | just-in wrote: |
For Loyal:
| Quote: | | Actually an illiterate camel trader named Muhammed, started recieving revelations. He told his community to stop worshipping idols and worship God One and Only Alone. In the end, he suceeded in turning lots of people to monotheism. |
We don't have any proof whether he was literate or illiterate.
|
Peace be upon you.
We do have proof. Historians, records, and so on all say he was illiterate. Indeed i don't think he even wrote the Qur'an down. He had to dictate it.
| Quote: |
Does it makes any sense?. Just by typing 'Peace be with you' all the time you write something to me... am I going to get peace?
|
I am giving you my peace. I.e. we will shall be peaceful towards each other. That's what the saying is saying.
| Quote: |
It again lies with me only. Its my behaviour and How I take things which matters not your words.
If I need peace I'll just go out with my friends.... thats enough. Peace is acheived.
Actually you are spoiling my peace by saying that 'peace be with you' all the time.
|
no need to act all horrible because i'm giving you my peace.
| Quote: |
What are you talking when cloning is happening around?.
|
no idea what you are talking about...
| Quote: |
Again you say that 'God made us like this'.... That is the question... who is he? Does he exists?
|
Yes.
| Quote: |
Do you eat in the name of GOD? Not by your hard earnings. You might be a Mosque supremo.
|
I eat in the name of God.
| Quote: |
If you do anything in the name of God... Why are you here for freehosting? You should host your websites in the name of God... |
Lol. I already do!
Check my website out: http://www.islamhope.co.nr it's a website on Islam!
may God bless you. | tidruG wrote: |
Then what is the purpose of God's existence at all? I mean, OK, let's say he did create the world... right, then, old chap! Thank you very much for this world and this universe and all! I really appreciate it, but I don't think I'm going to spend my life worshipping a God that can't/won't do anything else now that his job of creating everything is done.
|
Peace be upon you.
God exists because He is the Creator. We exist because to love Him, and serve Him, and worship Him.
I don't think i explained clear enough. God won't interfere in nature and so on. But He'll give guidance, help, power maybe, to those who are righteous and worship Him.
| Quote: |
What's the point of it, then? If our whole life is spent in taking the test, what do we get at the end of it, a death?
|
We get Heaven or hell. Death is not the end. It's the beginning in a sense (literally the middle lol).
| Quote: |
And a moral question then... if Adam and Eve's children married each other, why is it now immoral to marry your own sister?
|
Like i said before. Population growth. E.g. Europe came from seven women.
| Quote: |
That doesn't make sense still... I mean, me and my sister are born an year nine months apart... we're not twins... is it OK for me to marry her?
|
no.
| Quote: |
As for the population issue... was it considered a sin back when the population was low to marry your own sister, but Adam and Eve's children did it anyway ONLY to improve the situation? well, now that the population is high, should we start preventing marriages between more people (I'm sure we can make it a sin to marry out of your religion) to bring to population growth back under control?
|
it was a sin to marry your own sister. It worked like this:
At the beginning of the world, brothers sisters married to increase population.
A bit later, sister brother marriages are forbidden.
A bit later, direct blood marriages are forbidden.
We should not prevent marriages between people. That wouldn't be fair.
may God bless you.I think I was bit of rude in my last post and I am sorry for that.
| Quote: |
God exists because He is the Creator. We exist because to love Him, and serve Him, and worship Him.
|
I can not agree with you on this. If I am here just to worship and serve the God. I don't think my creation is justified. Does the god creates everything just worship him?
| Quote: |
We get Heaven or hell. Death is not the end. It's the beginning in a sense (literally the middle lol).
|
If I am dead. Why should I worry where am I going? to Heaven or to Hell or to Graveyard.
| Quote: |
E.g. Europe came from seven women.
|
I can't get you. Can you explain?
| Quote: |
Indeed i don't think he even wrote the Qur'an down. He had to dictate it.
|
It reminds me my friends talking about Bhagavat Gita ( The bible of Hindus) that Bhaghavat Gita was dictated by a saint called 'Vyas' and it was written by 'God Ganesh'.
So my doubt increases on Quron. Since you reminded this Now I doubt they might have derived things from 'Bhagavat Gita' too.
| Quote: |
Clonig ... no idea what you are talking about...
|
Cloning
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cloning is the process of recreating an identical copy of an original organism or thing. A clone in the biological sense, therefore, is a single cell (like bacteria, lymphocytes etc.) or multi-cellular organism that has been directly copied from and is therefore genetically identical to another living organism.
Get more information from this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning
and guys I am loosing my interest on this thread as Loyal is too religious to talk about the factor God. In a sense, I'm in a similar position to you, except I started from a relatively neutral position. My mother is an Anglican, and my father an atheist. Not able to decide how to bring me up, they basically presented me with both sides of the coin, and left me to decide for myself. I was only six when I was told at Sunday School not to ask so many questions, and that was the end of THAT.
However, the most plausible answer I've heard for your question on Adam and Eve is that due to the inherently mysogenistic nature of the times, the bible simply doesn't mention the daughters of Adam and Eve. Cain killed Abel, and was cast out. (Note - not killed. He went on living, and he wasn't even alone. There is mention of other tribes of people in some versions of the bible. Interesting, that.)
Then Adam and Eve had another son, Seth, from whom humanity descended. Yes, incest is strongly implied here, but that's not so implausible.
It should be noted though, that though this is the best explanation I've yet been given, I still don't hold it to be a particularly good one, nor do I believe it. In fact, my grandfather is a member of the clergy - an Anglican vicar. And he doesn't believe it either.
| Quote: |
| However, the most plausible answer I've heard for your question on Adam and Eve is that due to the inherently mysogenistic nature of the times, the bible simply doesn't mention the daughters of Adam and Eve. Cain killed Abel, and was cast out. (Note - not killed. He went on living, and he wasn't even alone. There is mention of other tribes of people in some versions of the bible. Interesting, that.) |
These things prove that the GOD is a factor which is created by man.
Our ancients feared the lightning, thunder, earth quakes (I am not sure they knew about this) and many things which they can't understand why they happen and they thought these things created by some power and they named that power as god and started worshiping.
And they created different methods how they liked to worship and these methods become the religions now.
I feel this was the story but if I say this to any religious they say I am an 'Atheist'. 
Well perhaps I'm not understanding you fully, but I'd say they're right.
I agree that religious beliefs are in their origins, a way to explain the world around us. Let me give an example...
The Ancient Greeks thought that any object that moved would eventually come to a rest. And as the best explanation we had, we believed it.
Isaac Newton proved the existance of friction, and showed that friction was the force that stopped these items. In theory, in a completely frictionless environment (such as outer space) an item could continue moving for ever. And so, we moved one rung further up on the ladder of understanding, discarding the theories of the ancient Greeks in favour of Newton's theories.
Religion is the bottom rung of the ladder of understanding, and has persisted only because the great leap of thinking required to go from no explanation to an omnipotent being is such an incredible act of imagination - unproveable, and so impossible to disprove - that unlike the other rungs on the ladder, moving up to the next rung does not necessarily disprove the previous rung.
That does make me an atheist. And it seems to me to be more or less what you're saying too.
In what way are you not an atheist?
| Quote: |
| In what way are you not an atheist? |
I think he is right who said in this thread that I am more or less becoming an atheist.
But I want know that if there is no factor called GOD...
How did this universe form?
Whats there beyond our universe milky way?
Why only earth has water and balanced heat?
Why only earth has lives?
How my heart beats itself and lungs pump air all the time?
What makes the planets rotate themselves?
Why these activities are not stopping for a holiday? Ok, I don't know all the answers there, but I'll do the best I can.
I think he is right who said in this thread that I am more or less becoming an atheist.
| Quote: |
But I want know that if there is no factor called GOD...
How did this universe form? |
I'll admit not knowing that myself, in any significant detail.
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| Whats there beyond our universe milky way? |
First of all, the Milky Way is our Galaxy. So if you mean what is beyond our galaxy... other galaxies. If you mean what is beyond our universe... well, nothing. But how does the existance of God make that any easier to understand?
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| Why only earth has water and balanced heat? |
Balanced heat is quite common - just not at temperatures we're adapted to. And some other planets in our very own solar system have water, locked away in ice deposits. Assuming you mean why does only our planet have conditions we can live in... well first of all, we've only looked at nine planets, out of the entire universe, millions and billions of stars and solar systems. Frankly the odds are good some others do have these kind of conditions.
And to use a simile Douglas Adams put forwards, marvelling that earth suits us so well is not unlike a puddle being amazed at how well the hole in the ground it lies in fits it.
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| Why only earth has lives? |
How do you know that?
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| How my heart beats itself and lungs pump air all the time? |
Do you want an explanation of the biological principles? Because they're quite complex, and it's been quite a while since I studied them. But the basis of it comes down to the Sino-Atrial nodes of the heart which trigger convulsions, muscular contractions through ionic attraction and protein formations, and neural impulses. It's a complicated but fully feasible arrangement.
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| What makes the planets rotate themselves? |
I'm not physicist... but nonetheless there are logical physical laws which dictate why the planets spin. And again, how does the existance of God make that more plausible?
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| Why these activities are not stopping for a holiday? |
Hah. 
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just-in wrote:
I think he is right who said in this thread that I am more or less becoming an atheist.
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it seem that my thought is same with yours.
I am more or less becoming an atheist.
but still consider myself as Theist ^_^
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just-in wrote:
But I want know that if there is no factor called GOD...
How did this universe form?
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and another question is
why there is a space which 'something' is empty and can be filled by anything? what is the 'space' make of?
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Whats there beyond our universe milky way?
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some others galaxies
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Why only earth has water and balanced heat?
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actually the 'BALANCE' heat is relatively on definition.
you can not say this is the Balance heat for living creature.
and don't think all living have to need water and O2. there are a lot of thing out there beyond our knowledge. some other planet may have living creature which the condition is too extrem to live for human and maybe they don't need the water and O2.
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Why only earth has lives?
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there is a possibility that another planets have living creature,
of course not in our solar system except the earth, but who know in the future.
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How my heart beats itself and lungs pump air all the time?
What makes the planets rotate themselves?
Why these activities are not stopping for a holiday?
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the less ... see SubSonic Sound post. ^_^Great!
I am an atheist or not but for sure I am getting addicted to this forum. Thanks to Frihost.
I simply put up those questions whatever came in to my mind but I did get some sincere answers. It feels good to be here in this forum.
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Do you want an explanation of the biological principles? Because they're quite complex, and it's been quite a while since I studied them. But the basis of it comes down to the Sino-Atrial nodes of the heart which trigger convulsions, muscular contractions through ionic attraction and protein formations, and neural impulses. It's a complicated but fully feasible arrangement.
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Impressive answer. I did not get such a straight to the point answer from anybody.
And I did get the expected answers for other questions as I knew the answers.
Lets close this topic of GOD. I am bored of talking about the factor 'GOD'. | just-in wrote: |
I remember when I asked my mom Why jesus has a beard always ... my mom said 'shut up you should not ask such questions as he is the god he'll curse you then u'll be in problems.'
she could have simply told me that in those days the razor was not invented. ... |
I'm afraid I don't have anything constructive to say about this topic, but your post reminded me of this teeshirt:
http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/jesusshaves/maleI haven't seen the God. And I don't think I will ever see.
the question of how or whether to see the God(s) in one's own eyes lies into the question, can anyone tell the detailed figure of him/them? black or white haired? with or without clothes? having glasses or not? tall or small? slim or fat?
no, no one can say that. However, in Phylosopy, the answer could also be thought in another way, that is, the God(s) can be in whatever figure the ordinary people wants to imagine.
I have once met one Christian in Munich, she talked to me about the God and the Bible. She affirmed that one friend from her had once seen the God. And I just asked her, whether she knew the image from him. And she agreed to me that the God(s) could even been a rabit, a chicken or a stone...
all depends only on the thing we believe, if you think God exists, he could be everwhere and everything. If not, then nothing means exactly to this noun.
My opinion.
well, again people are talking and debating about the existence of god. I also think that the bible got it wrong at times because who know bible and other holy books like quran and baghvat gita are written by man(although some will say they were written by god!!). And i think they have beeen written and written and changed through a dynamic process.
I have so many doubts about religion and existence of god but i must admit that there have been instances in my life where miracles have happened. I dont know what to call them but i believe if you want something whole heartedly and genuinely then u will get it. So in that way maybe there is this external being who is looking after us.
But again, there are so many disorder and chaos in this world and especially over which religion is right and all and if god existed then i would really want him to send the message to the people on what is right and wrong. He hasnt done that for quite some time so i dont know whether he exists.
I think religion is a practice that people have developed to live in harmony in this world. whether god exists is another thing.
In answer to the very first post, god gave us free will. We were granted free will and so we can choose to ignore or accept god. God doesn't interfere because we do.
An important thing to note about every religion is that the main book was always written afterthe prophets death. The Bible was compiled several generations after Jesus, The Quran after Muhammeds death, et.c
Just as little note, I can trace my family tree back to biblical times and apparently I am descended from Cain.
| loyal wrote: |
| HoboPelican wrote: | | loyal wrote: | ....Adam and Eve had twins. Then they had twins again.
The male of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
The female of the first twin married the female of the second twin.
(or it might be the other way round).
... |
Thanks, Loyal. Appreciate the info. I wonder when incest became a bad thing? |
Peace be upon you.
Yes incest is a bad thing. But not very very very early on. This is because the population needs to mutiply. The two example i stated was europe and dogs.
The story even tries to avoid incest between twins. It says one twin married another twin i.e. the twins of one twin did not marry each other.
may God bless you. |
True, however. Incest would NOT have been an established concept. Speaking time wise, if humanity had just started. The mass of their moral concepts would not yet be established. Therefore brothers and sisters marrying would not be viewed as wrong, in fact, they probubly wouldn't even think about it. Relize that this would have been the earliest human beings, morals involving marrage and impurity would have almost been unheard of.
Looking at the defects and such that can happen from incest... The genetic strain back then would have been so pure there wouldn't have been defects. So yeah.. 'nuff said.
Also, relize that the bible does NOT contain all that it did originaly. Some books were removed becuase the church desided that they were not "divinely ordained" (ironicaly enough.. that would make them mortaly ordained since people desided what was divinely ordained 
) Of these you will find "The books of adam and eve" Where it better describes their children and lives. (rather than 10 pages of begots )
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| xxiv. 1 And Adam said to Eve, 'Behold, I have begotten a son, in place of Abel, whom Cain slew. 2 And after Adam had begotten Seth, he lived eight hundred years and begat thirty sons and thirty daughters; in all sixty-three children. And they were increased over the face of the earth in their nations. |
i really enjoyed reading this post. i must say that the answer i get is that coin and abel both had sex with their mother. i'd rather not like to think of it that way but whatever floats your boat.
the bible has many flaws and simply "not questioning god" is a lot to ask becasue i have so many questions.
i'm currently reading Dante's Inferno and its interesting because all those that preceded chrisitianity are burning in hell.
i dont think thats right. the never harmed or did anything wrong. they had no chance to read the bible because it was not written yet!
someone back me up here
Do you search god in a boundary position?
Do you think god is limitful like all of us, as humanbeing?
I think you accept that this amazing system of universe can only be created by a great power. You may call it as god or another name. With this explanation, there is a power which is more almighty than what people are able to do. So that, this power, or we call "god", must be independent on the limits like physical appearance (size, mass, color, etc.). For that reason, this power shouldn't be like us, like human. If this power were able to be seen by people, it would be limitful too. But I think god is limitless, and he (not as sex male: "he", just in explanation "he") has a very strong power. I want to give an example but I am sure that not everyone wants to understand it:
Can we look at, and see the sun exactly? No, but we can feel that the sun exists (even though we can't see exactly), because sun has a strong light, and this intensity blocks us to see it exactly.
Like in that example, god is very strong and by the way limitless, so we can't see him. I think it is not too hard to feel the existance of god, but human wants to be always free! Like a lion in the jungle... The ego of human wants no responsibility, no conscience, no obligatories, and no punishment because of the crimes he did. For this reason, ego never wants to believe that he will be punished by a power, and always wants to live without a law system which he must obey. If one doesnt want to obey, sure he wants to believe the absense of the crime, and also the punishment/judgement.
That is a very normal condition for everyone's ego. But there is a brain to think, a heart to feel, and a nerve to be agaist to the ego. Because ego wants always his own benefit in a short time. If one doesnt have food to eat when he is hungry, ego whispers: "hey go and steal some food! because you are starving!". If this person doesn't use the conscience, or doesn't look what his heart says, he may OBEY HIS EGO and steal the food. Is it justified? I think no. So that, ego wants short-time benefits. Being independent on a rule system (like a religion) is not a thing that ego wants to obey, but everyone may listen his conscience and look at his heart and stop himself to do/to think something wrong.
In many religions says same: "god tests us"
I think the test is what i said: the test of human's struggle against to his ego.
By this way, this obedience (submission) is not too strict, I think. Because this power (god) created this amazing universe, and we taste the life! There are many likings, many enjoyments, many feelings that make us happy. If god gives us this enjoyable universe and if he tests us, he must ask something different from us. For example: a belief... a thank... a prayer, a worship... you can live with them, man! there are many people who thank god and they lost nothing! A belief doesnt make human to lose a big thing... A thank, or a prayer never stops the happiness of the life. It is so easy to thank god, or believe in god, or worship for him...
And: if people argue/fight/war becasue of the religion, don't look at the people... Look at the belief systems! Because everyone may have mistakes... Everyone may fail... Noone is perfect/ideal/non-fault. Only the belief system can be perfect, people who believe in that belief systems(religions) may be sinful/false/wrong...
I think religion idea is in order to share... Not to debate... If one doesnt believe, you cant convert him. If one wonders, you can share your ideas with him, so you may change the ideas only in this way.
My god belief is that god can't be seen by the eyes. You can only feel him. Don't search him in physical bounds
| Wahwah Man wrote: |
| i really enjoyed reading this post. i must say that the answer i get is that coin and abel both had sex with their mother. i'd rather not like to think of it that way but whatever floats your boat. |
No, we were implieng that they had sex with their sisters. HOWEVER, that early in human existance. Incest would not have been known to have been wrong. (just like people used to live a very long time and then god limited their years to 120.) (as it is written anyway )istughfirallah... read the Quran man, itll guide you!
