| Quote: |
| Live rats driven by remote control
Scientists have turned living rats into remote-controlled, pleasure-driven robots which can be guided up ladders, through ruins and into minefields at the click of a laptop key. The project, which is funded by the US military's research arm, Darpa, was partly inspired by the September 11 terrorist attacks on the US, and partly by the earthquake in India last January. Animals have often been used by humans in combat and in search and rescue, but not under direct computer-to-brain electronic control. The advent of surgically altered roborats marks the crossing of a new boundary in the mechanisation, and potential militarisation, of nature. Scientists at the State University of New York (Suny) created the roborats by planting electrodes into their brains, a paper in today's edition of the journal Nature reports. Two electrodes lead to the parts of the rats' brains which normally detect an obstacle against their whiskers. A third plunges into an area of the brain identified as far back as the 1950s as providing the rat with a feeling of pleasure when stimulated. In 10 sessions the rats learned that if they ran forward and turned left or right on cue, they would be "rewarded" with a buzz of electrically delivered pleasure. Once trained they would move instantaneously and accurately as directed, for up to an hour at a time. The rats could be steered up ladders, along narrow ledges and down ramps, up trees, and into collapsed piles of concrete rubble. The Suny team suggests roborats fitted with cameras or other sensors could be used as search and rescue aids in natural disasters such as earthquakes, or in mine clearance. Sanjiv Talwar, lead author of the Nature paper, said not only did the rats wearing electrodes feel no pain, but they were having a good time. "If the rat moves left or right as commanded, it feels this burst of happiness," he said. "It follows this sort of cue very accurately. They work only for rewards. They love doing it." The work on guided rats was an offshoot of earlier research which showed that animals wired up to a processor could command a robotic arm by thought alone, a development which could potentially empower paralysed humans. Asked to speculate on potential military uses for robotic animals, Dr Talwar agreed they could, in theory, be put to some unpleasant uses, such as assassination. "Is it possible, objectively? I would imagine, if anybody wanted to do something as absurd as that. But yes, surveillance is pretty straightforward, although for these sort of operations you could use robots. You could apply this to birds ... if you could fit birds with sensors and cameras and the like." Michael Reiss, professor of science education at London's Institute of Education and a leading bioethics thinker, said: "It could be argued that we have, for 10,000 years or more, pushed farm animals around and directed their behaviour, but this clearly involves a degree of control and degree of invasiveness that in most people's eyes is a step change." Prof Reiss said he was uneasy about humankind "subverting the autonomy" of animals. "There is a part of me that is not entirely happy with the idea of our subverting a sentient animal's own aspirations and wish to lead a life of its own." Dr Talwar said that perhaps there needed to be a wider ethical debate. But he argued that the roborat programme was not so far from training dogs. "The only thing different, and perhaps creepy, is that instead of whistling or giving food, you're directly tapping into the brain," he said. |
Live rats driven by remote control
Quotes are great:
"A remotely-guided rat, popularly called a ratbot or robo-rat, is a rat with electrodes implanted in the medial forebrain bundle (MFB) and sensorimotor cortex of its brain. They were developed in 2002 by Sanjiv Talwar and John Chapin at the State University of New York Downstate Medical Center. The rats wear a small electronics backpack containing a radio receiver and electrical stimulator. The rat receives remote stimulation in the sensorimotor cortex via its backpack that causes the rat to feel a sensation in its left or right whiskers, and stimulation in the MFB that is interpreted as a reward or pleasure.
After a period of training and conditioning using MFB stimulation as a reward, the rats can be remotely directed to move left, right, and forward in response to whisker stimulation signals. It is possible to roughly guide the animal along an obstacle course, jumping small gaps and scaling obstacles.
[edit]
Applications
Currently, robo-rats are primarily being trained to detect explosives in areas where humans and existing robots cannot efficiently search, such as crowds and cargo ships. Other possible uses of the robo-rat include search and rescue operations following a natural disaster, military reconnaissance and landmine detection. A camera, transmitter, and GPS receiver that mount on rat backpacks have been designed to facilitate these purposes. However, it has been suggested that by interpreting biological signals directly from the brain of the rat, additional information could be obtained without the use of external equipment. This could be used, for example, to detect chemical and biological toxins in the air via the rat's own sense of smell.
Additionally, these rats have further applications in pure science. It serves as a new experimental model for behavioral studies in psychology. MFB stimulation is a valuable tool in behavioral research, but traditional research using MFB stimulation has required that test animals be confined within an experimental chamber. This difficulty is avoided because the robo-rat can be guided wirelessly.
Principal funding for the development of the robo-rat has come from DARPA.
[edit]
Ethics
Concerns have been raised by animal rights groups about the use of animals in this context, particularly due to a concern about the removal of autonomy from an independent creature. For example, a spokesman of the Dr Hadwen Trust, a group funding alternatives to animal research in medicine, has said that the experiments are an "appalling example of how the human species instrumentalises other species". [1].
Researchers tend to liken the training mechanism of the robo-rat to standard operant conditioning techniques. Talwar himself has acknowledged the ethical issues apparent in the development of the robo-rat, but points out that the research meets standards for animal treatment laid down by the National Institute of Health [2]. Moreover, the resarchers emphasize that the animals are trained, not coerced, into particular behaviors. Because the rats are encouraged to act via the reward of pleasure, not muscularly compelled to behave in a particular manner, their behavior under MFB stimulation is likened to a carrot-and-stick model of encouraged behavior versus a system of mind control. It seems unlikely that the rats could be persuaded to knowingly risk their lives even with this stimulation. "Our animals were completely happy and treated well," Talwar stated. [3].
The technology is reminiscient of experiments performed in 1965 by Dr Jose Delgado, a controversial scientist who was able to pacify a charging bull via electrodes fitted in its brain. He was also said to control cats and monkeys like "electronic toys".[4] Extension of the current work to higher animals is unlikely to occur, simply for ethical reasons."
"A remotely-guided rat, popularly called a ratbot or robo-rat, is a rat with electrodes implanted in the medial forebrain bundle (MFB) and sensorimotor cortex of its brain. They were developed in 2002 by Sanjiv Talwar and John Chapin at the State University of New York Downstate Medical Center. The rats wear a small electronics backpack containing a radio receiver and electrical stimulator. The rat receives remote stimulation in the sensorimotor cortex via its backpack that causes the rat to feel a sensation in its left or right whiskers, and stimulation in the MFB that is interpreted as a reward or pleasure.
After a period of training and conditioning using MFB stimulation as a reward, the rats can be remotely directed to move left, right, and forward in response to whisker stimulation signals. It is possible to roughly guide the animal along an obstacle course, jumping small gaps and scaling obstacles.
[edit]
Applications
Currently, robo-rats are primarily being trained to detect explosives in areas where humans and existing robots cannot efficiently search, such as crowds and cargo ships. Other possible uses of the robo-rat include search and rescue operations following a natural disaster, military reconnaissance and landmine detection. A camera, transmitter, and GPS receiver that mount on rat backpacks have been designed to facilitate these purposes. However, it has been suggested that by interpreting biological signals directly from the brain of the rat, additional information could be obtained without the use of external equipment. This could be used, for example, to detect chemical and biological toxins in the air via the rat's own sense of smell.
Additionally, these rats have further applications in pure science. It serves as a new experimental model for behavioral studies in psychology. MFB stimulation is a valuable tool in behavioral research, but traditional research using MFB stimulation has required that test animals be confined within an experimental chamber. This difficulty is avoided because the robo-rat can be guided wirelessly.
Principal funding for the development of the robo-rat has come from DARPA.
[edit]
Ethics
Concerns have been raised by animal rights groups about the use of animals in this context, particularly due to a concern about the removal of autonomy from an independent creature. For example, a spokesman of the Dr Hadwen Trust, a group funding alternatives to animal research in medicine, has said that the experiments are an "appalling example of how the human species instrumentalises other species". [1].
Researchers tend to liken the training mechanism of the robo-rat to standard operant conditioning techniques. Talwar himself has acknowledged the ethical issues apparent in the development of the robo-rat, but points out that the research meets standards for animal treatment laid down by the National Institute of Health [2]. Moreover, the resarchers emphasize that the animals are trained, not coerced, into particular behaviors. Because the rats are encouraged to act via the reward of pleasure, not muscularly compelled to behave in a particular manner, their behavior under MFB stimulation is likened to a carrot-and-stick model of encouraged behavior versus a system of mind control. It seems unlikely that the rats could be persuaded to knowingly risk their lives even with this stimulation. "Our animals were completely happy and treated well," Talwar stated. [3].
The technology is reminiscient of experiments performed in 1965 by Dr Jose Delgado, a controversial scientist who was able to pacify a charging bull via electrodes fitted in its brain. He was also said to control cats and monkeys like "electronic toys".[4] Extension of the current work to higher animals is unlikely to occur, simply for ethical reasons."
RoboRats! Oh yes... That's the best! I can just imagine those little guys being trained for a year for sniffing out bombs, and then on the way to its little job somebody accidentally steps on it. Whoops... Time to get a new rat that experiences pleasure when we rub his whiskers.
-JC
-JC
This raises the question, how long before people start doing this to other people?
Will it not change the world? Is it possible to apply it on human being?
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| This raises the question, how long before people start doing this to other people? |
That is true, imagine brain dead people now becoming weapons. Also, has anyone read Grant Morrisons We3 graphic novel? Although a little off topic, but certainly pertains to this topic some what. It's a graphic novel about how the shady part of the government to transform household pets into effective and expendable killing machines. You can get a general understanding from Wikipedia through HERE, but be warned, there are spoilers if you want to read the comic.
In the graphic novel, they have a part where a scientist controls the rats by radio control to assemble jet engines and what not. One scientist forces a rat with a drill on his head to kill another rat. Here's a panel from out of the comic.
This is an interesting concept, but how long till Morrisons vision comes true?
Damn! 
... then we can a super team of bot insects to combat bad people, or spy, or just fun 
!
... then we can a super team of bot insects to combat bad people, or spy, or just fun !Wow, that's really impressive. You notice that the army was the first to get their hands on them. I want a remote controlled rat!
This will work on rats and most animals because they are guided by their instinctive nature. It is unlikely such technology can be effectivly applied to humans as our brains are alot more complex and we have the free will to alter our reaction to different feelings. For example humans can jump out of a plane with concious thought however a rat probably couldnt do it willingly.
Therefore even if they managed to target thr gith areas of our brain we would be able to over-ride the sense of fear or danger that would be being projected when we did "the wrong thing"
Therefore even if they managed to target thr gith areas of our brain we would be able to over-ride the sense of fear or danger that would be being projected when we did "the wrong thing"
When humans by remote control? hehehe
bYe
bYe
| Rhysige wrote: |
| This will work on rats and most animals because they are guided by their instinctive nature. It is unlikely such technology can be effectivly applied to humans as our brains are alot more complex and we have the free will to alter our reaction to different feelings. For example humans can jump out of a plane with concious thought however a rat probably couldnt do it willingly.
Therefore even if they managed to target thr gith areas of our brain we would be able to over-ride the sense of fear or danger that would be being projected when we did "the wrong thing" |
Who's to say rats don't have free will? Who's to say we do?
And there would be other parts of the brain to use to control some one. Stimulate the pain center of the brain to cause incomprehensible amount of pain when they dis obey, stimulate the pleasure center of the brain when they do obey.
dont bring philisophical "do we really have free will" into this. Rats have very limited free will they are guided by instinct, Humans are also guided by instinct but we have the ability to make concious choices and analyse situations coming up with a solution that goes against instinct. This is what makes us different this is what allowed "society" to evolve.
Your the one who brought a philosophical concept into this, free will only exists as a philosophical concept. And you assuming that rats only act on instinct alone, I once saw a show talking about something (I forget), in this show they showed some scientists that struck a wire in a rats brain and every time the rat pushed a button it stimulated the pleasure center of the rats brain, the rat spent all its time pushing the button, it chose the pleasure of pushing the button over food, with out food it would intimately die (I hope they disconnected it) all creatures have a survival instinct. The rat ignored its instincts.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Your the one who brought a philosophical concept into this, free will only exists as a philosophical concept. And you assuming that rats only act on instinct alone, I once saw a show talking about something (I forget), in this show they showed some scientists that struck a wire in a rats brain and every time the rat pushed a button it stimulated the pleasure center of the rats brain, the rat spent all its time pushing the button, it chose the pleasure of pushing the button over food, with out food it would intimately die (I hope they disconnected it) all creatures have a survival instinct. The rat ignored its instincts. |
okay you have a point there, and maybe we don't have free will because that is also a prime example of a drug addict!!! They would kill thier family for drugs!! But on the other hand there have been people that have overcome drugs.
But then again that rat pushing the button was just 1 rat, maybe out of a 100 some would choose food?
 |