Peace be Upon you,
alot of people are wondering what is islam, and what is this religious? what the world is saying about islam today? and alot of questions.
lets us present some questions here and we will try to make it clear.
| Surah 9:5 wrote: |
| Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. |
| Quote: |
| Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah 9:29) |
| Quote: |
| Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other.(Qur'an 48:29) |
| Quote: |
| "Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you." (Qur'an 9:123) |
Can we call Quran, the collection of "Satanic Verses". Does it not prove that the entity who preached Muhammada was not angel but Satan.Don't take single lines from the Qu'ran and use them to say Islam is evil, you have too look at what it says above, below and in the rest of the book. The Qu'ran is not like the bible, the bible is story's written by many people over thousands of years, the Qu'ran came from one man.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| the bible is story's written by many people over thousands of years, the Qu'ran came from one man. |
Something's fishy here... 
J/K
One thing I'd like to know... why isn't Islam more vocal when it comes to those using Islam to kill women and children in the name of Allah?[quote="nam_siddharth"] | Surah 9:5 wrote: |
| Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. |
Read the surrounding verses.
[9:4]: If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
This is talking about WAR.
The treaty ends after the sacred months which is then talked about:
[9:5]: Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Also, it's talking about pagans. Not Christians, or atheists or whatever.
Read this too:
submission.org:
| Quote: |
submission.org
urah 9
VERSE 1
"Freedom from obligation (or ultimatum) is herein issued from GOD and His messenger to the idol worshipers with whom you have entered into a treaty with."
VERSE 2
"Therefore, roam the earth freely for four months, and know that you cannot escape from GOD, and that GOD humiliates the disbelievers."
VERSE 3
"A proclamation is herein issued from GOD and His messenger to all the people on the great day of pilgrimage, that GOD has disowned the idol worshipers, and so did His messenger. Thus, if you repent, it would be better for you. But if you turn away, then know that you can never escape from GOD. Promise those who disbelieve a painful retribution."
VERSE 4
"If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfil your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous."
VERSE 5
"Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
After reading the five verses together the following matters becomes apparent:
1- Verse 5 speaks of the idol worshippers who are AT WAR with the believers and not any idol worshippers. The words : "the idol worshipers with whom you have entered into a treaty with" in verse 1 confirms that matter since no treaty is entered into unless there is a war situation…..
2- In verse 2 God address's the idol worshippers and tells them that they may roam freely during the four sacred months (since the believers are prohibited from fighting in these months), but that at the end they will not escape from God.
3- In verse 4 it is once again confirmed that the believers are not to attack the idol worshippers who have signed a treaty with them and who do not violate it.
4- Following that, in verse 5 God says that when the sacred months have passed the believers are to fight the idol worshippers.
5- The content of verse 4 (that believers are not to fight idol worshippers who uphold the terms of a treaty) confirms the real meaning of verse 5; the believers are commanded to fight the idol worshippers (outside the sacred months) only at times of war, or when the idol worshippers violate the terms of a treaty (also in a state of war).
This meaning is again confirmed in verse 7 with the words:
"Exempted are those who have signed a peace treaty with you at the Sacred Masjid. If they honour and uphold such a treaty, you shall uphold it as well. GOD loves the righteous."
In spite of all these indications in the first seven verses of Sura 9 that assert that the fighting may only be directed to the idol worshippers in a state of war, and with those who violate the terms of a peace treaty
6- Furthermore, and as will be detailed later, we are told all throughout the Quran that God prohibits the believers from fighting those who offer peace, such as :
" .......... IF THEY LEAVE YOU ALONE, REFRAIN FROM FIGHTING YOU, AND OFFER YOU PEACE, THEN GOD GIVES YOU NO EXCUSE TO FIGHT THEM." 4:90
|
| Quote: |
| Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah 9:29) |
This is about war.
Also Jizya is this:
Non-Muslims are called dhimmis and were required to pay a levy or jizya. The jizya was not paid as a bribe for practicing their faith, but rather as compensation for not serving in the army, protection for Crusading armies and tribal warfare. While most so-called journalists scream that the jizya is a tool of inequality, they fail to see that there is a tax levied on Muslims as well, the zakat, which non-Muslims are not required to pay.
| Quote: |
| Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other.(Qur'an 48:29) |
[48:29] Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves.....
Harsh and stern towards unbelievers. However less so with disbelievers for your friends. So if your friend is an unbeliever, then it's okay. Be merciful with him. But if he's not a friend, i.e. an enemy, then be harsh with him.
This further explained in:
Friendship with unbelievers:
[60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.
Enemy non-believers
[9:123] O you who believe, you shall fight the disbelievers who attack you - let them find you stern - and know that GOD is with the righteous.
| Quote: |
| "Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you." (Qur'an 9:123) |
Read the verse before.
[9:122]: When the believers mobilize, not all of them shall do so. A few from each group shall mobilize by devoting their time to studying the religion. Thus, they can pass the knowledge on to their people when they return, that they may remain religiously informed.
It's talking about war.
| Quote: |
Can we call Quran, the collection of "Satanic Verses". Does it not prove that the entity who preached Muhammada was not angel but Satan. |
This is a very ignorant claim. Try reading the Quran:
2:34
When we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam," they fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused, was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.
2:168
O people, eat from the earth's products all that is lawful and good, and do not follow the steps of Satan; he is your most ardent enemy.
2:208
O you who believe, you shall embrace total submission; do not follow the steps of Satan, for he is your most ardent enemy.
6:142
Some livestock supply you with transportation, as well as bedding materials. Eat from GOD's provisions to you, and do not follow the steps of Satan; he is your most ardent enemy.
16:98
When you read the Quran, you shall seek refuge in GOD from Satan the rejected.
24:21
O you who believe, do not follow the steps of Satan. Anyone who follows the steps of Satan, should know that he advocates evil and vice. If it were not for GOD's grace towards you, and His mercy, none of you would have been purified. But GOD purifies whomever He wills. GOD is Hearer, Knower.
It's obvious the Quran is not from satan, since it calls him the rejected, arrogant, evil, an enemy, and so on. It even tells us to seek refuge with God away from satan.
may God bless you. | Quote: |
| One thing I'd like to know... why isn't Islam more vocal when it comes to those using Islam to kill women and children in the name of Allah? |
Quite being a bigot and look at the situation!
1. The US's lust for oil.
2. The wests support for tiarants in the middle east (such as the Sha of Iran and the Saudi roil family)
3. The support of Israel who stole the land of millions of Palestinians and oppressors many more.
4. The western media that almost constantly tries to make Islam look bad.
5. The oppression and lack of freedom in the middle east (oppression and lack of freedom leads people to hopelessness, hopelessness leads people to religion)
And if you ever won't to say something stupid like that again, remember the media only covers what they think will get ratings so the Muslims who speak out against the extremists don't get air time but if an extremist blows something up, they will talk about it for days. | The Conspirator wrote: |
| Quote: | | One thing I'd like to know... why isn't Islam more vocal when it comes to those using Islam to kill women and children in the name of Allah? |
Quite being a bigot |
So now I'm a bigot? 
Ok, fine, You're right: I do hate all people who kill women and children in the name of Islam, so ban me!
You know that if some radical Christians hijacked a plane and ran it into a building full of civilians in the name of Jesus, the real Christians would speak out and distance themselves from the radicals.
What is so hard about Muslims doing it on a large scale? I still have not gotten an answer to that question, just an ill-informed trouble-maker calling me a racist.
Seriously, if it's so easy to protest some ****ing cartoons, what's so hard about protesting some radicals hijacking your religion?
Anyone?
Anyone at all?Hers an Idea look at the ****** situwation, look at what lead to it. to know what caused it and why gives you the way to stop it
And what is the situwation?
1. The US's lust for oil.
2. The wests support for tiarants in the middle east (such as the Sha of Iran and the Saudi roil family)
3. The support of Israel who stole the land of millions of Palestinians and oppressors many more.
4. The western media that almost constantly tries to make Islam look bad.
5. The oppression and lack of freedom in the middle east (oppression and lack of freedom leads people to hopelessness, hopelessness leads people to religion)
| The Conspirator wrote: |
Hers an Idea look at the **** situwation, look at what lead to it. to know what caused it and why gives you the way to stop it
And what is the situwation?
1. The US's lust for oil.
2. The wests support for tiarants in the middle east (such as the Sha of Iran and the Saudi roil family)
3. The support of Israel who stole the land of millions of Palestinians and oppressors many more.
4. The western media that almost constantly tries to make Islam look bad.
5. The oppression and lack of freedom in the middle east (oppression and lack of freedom leads people to hopelessness, hopelessness leads people to religion) |
what an idiotic justification
the US's "lust for oil".. you mean how the US provides the income for nearly every man, woman and child in the OPEC nations.. there's a real lust there.. but it's a lust by muslims to blame the Great Satan for all their personal/religious issues
odd how the middle east was a fairly peaceful region while the Shah of Iran was in power.. but granted, I'll admit that the US screwed up when we elected Jimmy Carter and his foreign policy was helpful in getting the Shah deposed and the middle east turned into a cesspool of religious intolerance
and just for the record, you muslims would be hiding under rocks right now if the media wasn't covering your asses.. the media fails to report all the horrendous rapes and honor killings that muslims commit against both nonmuslims and themselves.. the war on terror would be hugely popular in the US if the media bothered to educate the average american on what is considered acceptable in muslim states
no point in going into the "Israel stole land" bullsh*t.. there are plenty of credible sources that explain how that never happened.. it was the palestinian state that refused to allow the refugees back, preferring to keep them in shantys as political fodder
and the oppression and lack of freedom in the middle east is caused by the religious zealots in charge there.. not the other way aroundThere is a website, maybe you want to visit:
IslamAnswering.com Peace be Upon u all,
For everyone who started to talk about things that don't fit islam but rather it fit's the european and usa minds.
1)I wonder from where that guy (up) has found that mulsims kill woman and children in the name of allah? i'm a muslem and i have never heard that. strange!! this guy hates islam from childhood by the infleunce of churches and parents.
2)It's obvious that a group to be united and strong must have the mercy between it's indivuals. and as a non muslem you will find it difficult and uncomfortable to hear that muslems are kind with each other and hard with others (disbleavers=people who don't belive in one god, like must christians,and other people who left the idea of god behind), this is the case in any nation in the world. for example: christians are kind with each other and not with muslems, and that to strengthen each other. jews too have same thing, so why muslems are blammed to be like that. what a hatter is this one!!
3) It's strange to talk about islam as a devil or evil, for those people who say that i say:
Learn history of islam ,how they build their justice empire, how they treated non-believers and christians and jews and how christian gained the full freedom in that empire, how they spread islam, and how they behaved and developed. and finnaly how jews and christians rewarded muslems for that (crossaders).
it's your mind the misses alot of information, i'm here to give you this information so ask me and don't start to claim things that don't exist. ask about things that you don't know and don't try to prove things that you claim, i didn't open this post to talk about fake things. so please get applied to the rules of this post.[/b]
Peace be Upon you.
| JoeFriday wrote: |
the US's "lust for oil".. you mean how the US provides the income for nearly every man, woman and child in the OPEC nations.. there's a real lust there.. but it's a lust by muslims to blame the Great Satan for all their personal/religious issues |
I've only got the 1991 figures handy but here's how it works.
Population of Opec countries : 552 Million
Per capita earnings from oil around $600
US takes about 13% of the oil. You can do the sums. Also, don't forget that US Government revenue from taxes on the imported oil exceed the amount opec make from the same oil..
This is where you get your oil from
Country.........................................Feb-06
MEXICO..........................................1,774
CANADA.........................................1,700
SAUDI ARABIA................................1,418
NIGERIA.........................................1,342
VENEZUELA.....................................1,175
ANGOLA.............................................464
IRAQ..................................................444
ECUADOR..........................................222
BRAZIL..............................................164
ALGERIA.............................................163
KUWAIT.............................................152
COLOMBIA..........................................108
UNITED KINGDOM.................................82
CHAD...................................................77
EQUATORIAL GUINEA............................73
| Quote: |
odd how the middle east was a fairly peaceful region while the Shah of Iran was in power.. but granted, I'll admit that the US screwed up when we elected Jimmy Carter and his foreign policy was helpful in getting the Shah deposed and the middle east turned into a cesspool of religious intolerance |
Odd why you think that. because it's Tosh. The Shah ruled from 1941 to 1979 so let's see:-
Nov. 30, 1947 Skirmishing breaks out in Palestine between Jewish and local Arab armed groups.
May 15, 1948 The armies of Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan invade Palestine.
Jan. 7, 1949 A cease-fire is established ending first Arab-Israeli War.
July 23, 1952 Gamal Abdel Nasser leads revolution in Egypt.
March 8, 1963 The radical Baathist Party takes power in a coup in Syria.
May 15, 1967 Nasser deploys Egyptian troops in Sinai.
June 5-10, 1967 Israel attacks Egypt; defeats Arab armies in Six Day War; occupies West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula.
Oct. 6-26, 1973 The Yom Kippur War.
Not exactly peaceful I would say
| Quote: |
no point in going into the "Israel stole land" bullsh*t.. there are plenty of credible sources that explain how that never happened.. it was the palestinian state that refused to allow the refugees back, preferring to keep them in shantys as political fodder
|
Really ? Please give me a source you consider credible and I'll have a read.
| Quote: |
and the oppression and lack of freedom in the middle east is caused by the religious zealots in charge there.. not the other way around |
Err...fraid not old china. I think you should read up on your historyWhy is Islam imperialistic?
You guys are always doing that and i guess will do the same in future.
Please stop fighting and making foolish statments for each other.
This will simply worsen the situation and make the distances among ourselves more wider.
This world just needs peace so please stop fighting like barking dogs.
How does Islam envision the world at peace ?
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
| Surah 9:5 wrote: | | Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. |
| Quote: | | Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Surah 9:29) |
| Quote: | | Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other.(Qur'an 48:29) |
| Quote: | | "Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you." (Qur'an 9:123) |
Can we call Quran, the collection of "Satanic Verses". Does it not prove that the entity who preached Muhammada was not angel but Satan. |
General Rules section 1:h - Posts, avatars, signatures and usernames must not imply, in a derogatory or discriminatory manner, that your culture, religion, ethnicity, race, sexuality, country and/or language is superior to any other culture, religion, ethnicity, race, sexuality, country and/or language.
Your comments were/are out of line, read the rules before it becomes an official matter.JoeFriday: I had a big post yesterday but my connection cut out for some reason, heres a shortened version.
Most of the oil money made in the middle east dose not go to the people, and the vast majority of the people in the middle east live in poverty, even in Saudi Arabia.
The media is horrid on Islam, they mostly talk about the bad and very really say anything good about it. Honer killings and rapes are not as common as you think and do not come from Islam, they come from ancient pre-Islamic traditions and are not mentioned in the Qu'ran.
Israel has no legitimate clame to that land, that land belonged to the Palestinians for thousands of years then a bunch of foreigner decided to take it from them by force. Do some research on the subject using real reliable sources.
| tumbleweed wrote: |
| How does Islam envision the world at peace ? |
According to (apparently) everyone, the only way that there can be peace is if Islam is the only religion.
How do you get Islam to be the only religion? Apparently you kill people who are unwilling to totally submit to Islam. | Soulfire wrote: |
| tumbleweed wrote: | | How does Islam envision the world at peace ? |
According to (apparently) everyone, the only way that there can be peace is if Islam is the only religion.
How do you get Islam to be the only religion? Apparently you kill people who are unwilling to totally submit to Islam. |
No one has said that!
Ok one but that was in the way is there always wars topic (a point which I obliterated.)
But no one else. | Quote: |
No one has said that!
Ok one but that was in the way is there always wars topic (a point which I obliterated.)
But no one else. |
No one here has came out in the open and said that - but what other way is there to get everyone to be a Muslim? I know for damn sure I will never convert to said Islam, so therefore, they must be out to kill me, I mean... clearly I am a threat to Islam and deserve to die for my infidelity. *Sighs*
But at any rate, sorry if I stated it a bit liberally... Something I usually don't do. | Quote: |
The Conspirator wrote:
The media is horrid on Islam, they mostly talk about the bad and very really say anything good about it. Honer killings and rapes are not as common as you think and do not come from Islam, they come from ancient pre-Islamic traditions and are not mentioned in the Qu'ran.
Israel has no legitimate clame to that land,that land belonged to the Palestinians for thousands of years then a bunch of foreigner decided to take it from them by force. Do some research on the subject using real reliable sources.
|
Isn't the Qu'ran wrote about:
Jesus is the last prophet who send to Israelite.
where the most time Jesus spend to 'help' his people (Israel) in His life?
Jerusallem and around.
not only Jesus. that land also belong to Israel from the time of Abraham, Moses, David, King Solomon, etc who leads their people(Israel) all the time until Roman Empire (Jesus timeline) later continue by Byzantine Empire until the conquering by Islam.
you should say : "that land belonged to the Israel for thousands of years"
in fact that were the 'unknown' palestine who 'pop-up' around there centuries ago after the Islam conquer.
ok I have 2 questions?
that say Mohamed SAW has a lot of wife. are His family (His Family-Line) still exist until these day? I just feel strange that none of Mohamed SAW story mention about his family at all.
based on what the 'Moon-Star' is taken as the Islam sign/symbol?
I asking lots of my friends (Muslim). but nobody know about that.Soulfire: No one has even insinuated that, no one has posted anything near that here.
doomz: Israel is a country! Artificial lines that only exist people minds. That land is Palestinian, not Russian, German, Saudi Arabian, Pakistani, Italian, Egyptian or any one else who comes from some where else.
And they didn't just pope up! They come from the people who lived there, the people who moved there, the people who where there and had children, who has children, who had children and so on. The descend from people who lived in ancient Israel and the nations around it, the roman solder who lived and stayed there, basically any one who moved there and merged with the population have Palestinian descendants. The people who lived there since 10,000 bc and people to move there. They all merged together as people do. And at some point, they got the name Palestinian.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
(a point which I obliterated.)
|
Sorry ... I'm back. I had to change my drawers (I peed them) and had to go get my head bandaged up (I banged it on the floor when I fell over laughing) and I had to get the stitches in my side of course ... but I'm OK now. | The Conspirator wrote: |
Soulfire: No one has even insinuated that, no one has posted anything near that here.
doomz: Israel is a country! Artificial lines that only exist people minds. That land is Palestinian, not Russian, German, Saudi Arabian, Pakistani, Italian, Egyptian or any one else who comes from some where else.
And they didn't just pope up! They come from the people who lived there, the people who moved there, the people who where there and had children, who has children, who had children and so on. The descend from people who lived in ancient Israel and the nations around it, the roman solder who lived and stayed there, basically any one who moved there and merged with the population have Palestinian descendants. The people who lived there since 10,000 bc and people to move there. They all merged together as people do. And at some point, they got the name Palestinian. |
At no time was there a country called "Palestine." Occasionally the geographic region the Romans had designated as "Palestine" was used as a geographic term in the medieval Arabic geographies, but it had no political meaning whatsoever. As has already been noted, under the Ottomans the area was divided among 3 different administrations- the Province of Beirut; the Province of Damascus; and the Sancak of Jerusalem (comprising roughly today's southern coastal plain and the hills of Judea).
What the "Palestine" apologists ignore, is that the Palestine Mandate, which was created by the League of Nations at the San Remo conference solely for the purpose of establishing the Jewish National Home and awarded to Britain under those terms (which she violated), included all of the area which Britain then quite illegally separated into the Mintaqa (region) of Eastern Palestine or Transjordania- today's Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (which also, incidentally, does not allow Jews to be or become citizens- although, unlike the Saudis, the Jordanians permit Christians).
Could someone please explain convincingly why, in addition to already getting 4/5 of the only "Palestine" which has ever existed since Roman times, the very same Arabs- ethnically, religiously, culturally, and even tribally and familialy- should get yet another country in this tiny area?
The "Palestine" crowd were singularly unperturbed when the areas allocated by the U.N. Partition Plan of 1947 to an Arab state were swallowed up by Egypt and Jordan. One heard literally not a peep out of them. It seems that the only thing to which they object to is the exact same thing for which this whole extremely modern identity of "Palestinian" was invented: as a negation of Israel and the Jews. This is why the Arabs of the area have always rejected a state at every opportunity- most recently at Camp David in 1999; their goal is not to establish a state for themselves, but rather to destroy Israel. | doomz wrote: |
ok I have 2 questions?
|
Peace be upon you.
| Quote: |
that say Mohamed SAW has a lot of wife.
|
He had 9 wives i think in total over the years.
| Quote: |
are His family (His Family-Line) still exist until these day?
|
Yes. Directly-related by blood people still are alive. My cousins father (who is related to me by marriage not blood) is a descendant i think.
| Quote: |
I just feel strange that none of Mohamed SAW story mention about his family at all.
|
Of course they do. By marriage Abu Bakr is his father in law and Ali is his son in law. Ali's children are related by blood to the prophet and so are the children of his wives.
| Quote: |
based on what the 'Moon-Star' is taken as the Islam sign/symbol?
I asking lots of my friends (Muslim). but nobody know about that. |
about the symbol: The symbol of Islam (which is NOT Holy) is the crescent moon and the star. They did not originate in the prophet Muhammed's, peace and blessings upon him, time but originated much later. It is not a Holy symbol.
Islamonline.net answers excellently: 'there is no revealed or specific symbol for Islam, as a religion. Islam is a monotheist religion with a pure concept and understanding of The Creator as a transcendental God. It is fully against incarnation. That is why the Islamic art and architecture is very distinct and you would not find any statues or even pictures of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Even the messenger of Allah was considered a man, who simply conveyed a message and was never considered an icon of Islam.
A simple symbol is quite different than an icon. A symbol refers to a meaning, while an icon tries to capture a transcendental meaning by turning it into an incarnated form. This idea also is very much related to the Christian claim of Trinity and the claim of the incarnation of God in Jesus. That is why icons have a “holy” interpretation in Christian practices and the “embodiment” of meaning is a common feature, even in their ceremonies. This case is completely the opposite in Islam, which is highly transcendental; symbols are symbols! They are just pointing to a meaning and are never attempting to turn it into an immanent presence. They are neither trying to capture the sacred into an icon, which embodies it.
What prompted some Muslims to use the crescent, as a symbol on their flag, was the starting of the fast during the month of Ramadan, when the crescent appears. The crescent marks the beginning of the Islamic months, as Muslims follow the lunar calendar, not the Gregorian calendar. The crescent is not a “holy symbol”. Islam does not believe in any “holy idols” or symbols to be worshipped!'
Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015782&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE
may God bless you.JoeFriday: get you nose out of Israels ass and look at reality, Palestinian is a name for a people who lived in a certain area. How they got it, why there called it is,, why they have a certain culture is not important, whats important in the people, the Palestinians that Israel stole there land from where descendants of people who lived there 10,000 years ago and people who immigrated there, ancient Jews, Romans, Arabs even crusaders are in there blood line. They have every right to that land. The majority of Israelis came from foreigners from around the middle east and Europe, the majority of which went there in the 30's 40's and 50's. They do not have any right to that land.
| loyal wrote: |
9:4]: If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
This is talking about WAR.
The treaty ends after the sacred months which is then talked about:
[9:5]: Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. |
This treaty apears on sided. Muslims will not kill pagans only during sacred months, if pagans agree to not attack during these period. But after the sacred months, there are only two options for pagans, die or convert to Islam.
| loyal wrote: |
| Also, it's talking about pagans. Not Christians, or atheists or whatever. |
80% of Indians are pagans, so I am related to it. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
One thing I'd like to know... why isn't Islam more vocal when it comes to those using Islam to kill women and children in the name of Allah? |
Still waiting for an answer to this. Anyone?
An answer besides something along the lines of
| The Conspirator wrote: |
Quite being a bigot and look at the situation! |
and
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| And if you ever won't to say something stupid like that again, |
Yes....... I think I am still waiting for an answer,,, well at least an answer from the asker of the initial question, I had the same answer as ....
| Soulfire wrote: |
| tumbleweed wrote: | | How does Islam envision the world at peace ? |
According to (apparently) everyone, the only way that there can be peace is if Islam is the only religion.
How do you get Islam to be the only religion? Apparently you kill people who are unwilling to totally submit to Islam. |
.... in the back of my mind , I had heard that answer somewhere before, but I had never really believed it, because thats just down right madness !!!
Is'nt it ??? | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
One thing I'd like to know... why isn't Islam more vocal when it comes to those using Islam to kill women and children in the name of Allah? |
Still waiting for an answer to this. Anyone?
An answer besides something along the lines of
| The Conspirator wrote: |
Quite being a bigot and look at the situation! |
and
| The Conspirator wrote: | | And if you ever won't to say something stupid like that again, |
|
Anyone?....................... is'nt it 
| tumbleweed wrote: |
| ....................... is'nt it |
I guess not. 
islam doesnt kill women and children, the jews and english kill women and children.
also visit: al-islam.org, alislam.com, u research
and hey, dont trust google with religion. if u want to find info on islam, go to your local mosque and peacefully walk in and ask them where u can purchase a book of The Quran
| skinnykhalida wrote: |
and hey, dont trust google with religion. if u want to find info on islam, go to your local mosque and peacefully walk in and ask them where u can purchase a book of The Quran |
Again, he's correct, just start reading the Quran and make up your own mind. I swear every day I read I little of it and every day I see more and more hatred, more and more talk about killing those non-believers etc.
Yeah, yeah, I'm taking it out of context. I know. You've said it a million times.
I'm just going by what it says, not by what you say it's supposed to mean.I'm currently taking a World Religions class in my high school and geez, I must say that I've learned SO much about Islam that I never knew. It's aamzing.
| missdixy wrote: |
| I'm currently taking a World Religions class in my high school and geez, I must say that I've learned SO much about Islam that I never knew. It's aamzing. |
It absolutely can be a great religion. Unfortunatly, there are a large minority of Radical Islamics that have taken the Quran at it's word (at least from what I've seen of it so far), even if seemingly mis-interpreted, and twisted it into evil and death for the non-followers.
And the majority of Islam, for some strange reason, won't denounce those that are demonizing it.This could have the makings of a superb thread but it seems to have become a little lost and confusing.
Rather than the passing to and fro of information and opinions it has become somewhat of a slanging match, although some well informed and most entertaining slanging has been seen.
I looked upon this as a chance to ask questions about Islam from someone, presumably, who practices said faith although abedalmged does not state what qualifies him to answer questions in a fair, honest and informed way.
I am at this moment trying to make quick sense of the blocks of info hurled at me by this thread to try and sort out the truth from the political rhetoric, religious opinion and even, dare I say, lies.
This thread is absorbing and educational but maybe not in the ways I had envisioned.
Thanks everyone for posting on this thread, I am learning things I never would have without it.
Regards
The Captain
I have read the Quran many times. I have talked to many muslims and they tell me that the Quran is the last of Gods revelations to man. The Quran teaches that it is easy and straightforward to understand. Muslim scholars such as Zakir Naik teach that the Quran made spoke of many scientific facts hundreds of years before those facts were discovered by scientists... ie embryological, cosmological etc.
But why is it that Muslims have to go to the Hadith and tafsirs (commentaries) of islamic scholars to not only explain the Quran but even to complete their religious faith and worship?
Why is it that the Quran is very very repetitive and tell the same stories over and over again?. Also, why is it very vague and mixes up the persons to whom it is referring to in its teachings?
Why is it that when I read the "scientific verses" of the Quran by the earlier English translators, their words are totally different then the newer translations which are used by Zakir Naik and other modern day islamic Scholars to justify scientific passages in the Quran?
I am not trying to be disrespectful toward the Quran, as my interest in studying it stems from my friendship with several muslims who invited me to study their religion with them. Unfortunately I do not like taking things at face value but rather, I like to study "the small writing" of what is presented. While the Quran has many nice and interesting surahs and ayats, I find that it is seriously lacking in many of the claims that muslims make about it.
| dlougha wrote: |
I have read the Quran many times. I have talked to many muslims and they tell me that the Quran is the last of Gods revelations to man. The Quran teaches that it is easy and straightforward to understand. Muslim scholars such as Zakir Naik teach that the Quran made spoke of many scientific facts hundreds of years before those facts were discovered by scientists... ie embryological, cosmological etc.
But why is it that Muslims have to go to the Hadith and tafsirs (commentaries) of islamic scholars to not only explain the Quran but even to complete their religious faith and worship?
|
Peace be upon you.
You're not correct. I am a Muslim. I don't need the hadiths whatsoever to do anything religiously connected. Infact i could destroy the hadiths, and still live happily.
| Quote: |
Why is it that the Quran is very very repetitive and tell the same stories over and over again?.
|
It uses the stories as examples. When it repeats the stories, you're reading it wrong. You're not supposed to read and enjoy the story. You're supposed to see the meaning behind it. So if the Quran is talking about hypocrisy and mentions the pharoah of egypt, it's trying to show what happened to the pharoah because of his hypocrisy and lies to the Isrealites.
| Quote: |
Also, why is it very vague and mixes up the persons to whom it is referring to in its teachings?
|
I've never come across that.
| Quote: |
Why is it that when I read the "scientific verses" of the Quran by the earlier English translators, their words are totally different then the newer translations which are used by Zakir Naik and other modern day islamic Scholars to justify scientific passages in the Quran?
|
It depends. Some early translations are almost identical to later translations. Others weren't translated accurately because the translator was unsure what the verse MEANT! In a rare case, such as the verse about Iram, some Quran commentators were embrassed because there was never even a mention let alone a record of Iram in history. Later however they discovered it did exist! So the Quran was proved again, but before it was, the comentators were unsure.
The main reason however is because usually the translator either doesn't understand exactly what the verse is talking about and so tries a literal or very metaphorical translation.
| Quote: |
I am not trying to be disrespectful toward the Quran, as my interest in studying it stems from my friendship with several muslims who invited me to study their religion with them. Unfortunately I do not like taking things at face value but rather, I like to study "the small writing" of what is presented. While the Quran has many nice and interesting surahs and ayats, I find that it is seriously lacking in many of the claims that muslims make about it.
|
Like what?
may God bless you.
