Peace be Upon You all,
Crossaders and chritians who wanted to control middle east once , has arosed again , but now in another way.
USA,Erope and others are fighting muslims everywhere: iraq,afghanistan,falastene,egypt,sudan,sheshan,lebanon,syria,iran....(please pay attention to events happening in this world, all of them are in muslims contries and are fired by usa and europe) and it's real and not a fack.
every muslim today is being foughted not by swords but by claiming that he is a criminal and should be killed, and if any muslim don't follow USA or erope then he is a criminal or by the bush's words "torrists".
lets talk about this and find realy what is happening behind the scenes.
I wouldn't call it a crusade but there is some stupid shit going on. And it starts with the politicians (especially here in the US) who only care about Israel and oil. And of course there this "war on terror" (which is nothing more than words politicians use to get support like the "war on drugs," "war on crime" and all the other shit they spew out to get people to vote for them and there friends) which if you actually look at the history of the situation you'll find that the so called "terrorists" actually came about cause of the action of the US and other western powers and who they support(ed) (such as the Shaw of Iran, Saddam Husein, Israel and the Talaban light in Saudi Arabia)
I think one of the problems is Christens are afraid of Islam, I don;t mead afraid of Islamic extremists I mean Islam itself, not to the point where they won't to kill Muslims or forcefully convert Muslims (well, Pat Robertson but the vast majority don't) but they do fear Islam. And thats the reason so many support Israel.
Note: The Afghanistan war was justified and even if 9/11 never happened, some one needed to beat the shit out of the Talaban and there mentally ill ideology braced only in small part on the Qu'ran and mostly on insanity.
| abedalmged wrote: |
Peace be Upon You all,
Crossaders and chritians
|
I'm supposing you mean crusaders and christians...
| abedalmged wrote: |
who wanted to control middle east once , has arosed again , but now in another way.
USA,Erope and others are fighting muslims everywhere:
|
Yes, but notice that muslims are fighting the USA, Europe, and others everwhere
| abedalmged wrote: |
as well.iraq,afghanistan,falastene,egypt,sudan,sheshan,lebanon,syria,iran....(please pay attention to events happening in this world, all of them are in muslims contries and are fired by usa and europe) and it's real and not a fack.
|
By 'events' I'm supposing you mean 'wars'. Certainly things are happening elsewhere, but they are peaceful things.
| abedalmged wrote: |
every muslim today is being foughted not by swords but by claiming that he is a criminal and should be killed, and if any muslim don't follow USA or erope then he is a criminal or by the bush's words "torrists".
|
I wonder where you got that information. Have you any idea what the USA and europe, or 'erope' as you put it, have actualy said about that? Where have you heard that every muslim has now been branded as a criminal and been marked for arrest and execution? A terrorist recruitment center perhaps?
| abedalmged wrote: |
lets talk about this and find realy what is happening behind the scenes. |
What is happening behind the scenes? From what I can tell, you don't even have a clear notion of what's going on in front of the scenes. I think you'll find that if the terrorist strikes stopped, the level of hate towards muslims would drop dramaticly. | abedalmged wrote: |
Crossaders and chritians who wanted to control middle east once |
If' I'm not mistaken, the christians were there long before islam was even created. 
| Quote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: |
I think you'll find that if the terrorist strikes stopped, the level of hate towards muslims would drop dramaticly. |
|
The hate would drop of if only muslims would seperate themselves from the radicals. Terror doesn't need to stop for it to happen, terror in the name of islam needs to stop. | Quote: |
| I think one of the problems is Christens are afraid of Islam, I don;t mead afraid of Islamic extremists I mean Islam itself |
I'm not a Christian, so I can't speak for them, but I can speak for people I know in the UK. It's not exactly Islam that we are afraid of, but the extremists. It's only the extremists that wants to turn the UK into an Islamic country.
We are angry when British born young people become extremist Islamics and get involved with terorist acts against their own countrymen (Brits)
It seems to the world that Muslims can only react to situations in an aggresive manner. Take for instance the Pope's recent remarks, which he probably should not have said. The protests and actions taken after this were way over the top. Unfortunately when this sort of thing happens, people tend to lump all Muslims together, which is unfortunate as I know the Islamic religion is one of peace.Well, I have came to the conclusion that Christan are afraid of Islam the religion. To them Islam threatens the dominance of Christianity or could even replace it but its more than that, Islam is different its unknown and people fear the unknown.
| Quote: |
| It seems to the world that Muslims can only react to situations in an aggresive manner. Take for instance the Pope's recent remarks, which he probably should not have said. The protests and actions taken after this were way over the top. Unfortunately when this sort of thing happens, people tend to lump all Muslims together, which is unfortunate as I know the Islamic religion is one of peace. |
Thats due to the situation. The same feelings that lead some to become extremists. The Crusaders (formerly the Canterbury Crusaders) are a New Zealand Rugby Union team based in Christchurch, New Zealand that competes in the Super 14 (formerly the Super 12). They are the most successful team in Super 14 history, having won the title six times. The franchise represents the Buller, Tasman, West Coast, Canterbury, Mid Canterbury and South Canterbury unions. Their home ground is Jade Stadium, and their biggest rivals are the Blues.
Yes the crusaders are going to beat the muslins at rugby.
actually, the 'facts' are that abedalmged is on his own anti-christian "crossade".. s/he spews rhetoric blaming the non-muslim world for all the conflicts that muslims are involved in.. yet s/he fails to provide any facts to back up his/her claim.. actually, I think it's safe to assume abedalmged is male, since female muslims are basically forbidden to express public opinions
yes, the christians were in the middle east long before muslims.. something easy to confirm since muslims didn't exist until about 600 years after christianity was conceived
the crusades were actually a retaliation by christians who decided several hundred years of subjugation, slavery and slaughter were enough to endure under muslim rule.. so they marched in and freed their christian followers.. they also knew that they had to stay in control or the situation would quickly revert back to the bloodbath that was so common under Islam.. very similar to our present situation, actually
if abedalmged can find one single case of a muslim being oppressed, let's hear about it.. he, being so connected to the muslim world, should be able to find at least one CREDIBLE source (ie, no al jazeera propaganda)
as it is, I could probably do a quick search and find a couple dozen cases of christians being killed, including one recent slaying of a nun in Somalia.. or how about the journalist hostages who were told to convert to Islam or end up headless
abedalmged, it's not a fight against you or other muslims.. it's a fight against terrorism, oppression and lies
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Quote: | | It seems to the world that Muslims can only react to situations in an aggresive manner. Take for instance the Pope's recent remarks, which he probably should not have said. The protests and actions taken after this were way over the top. Unfortunately when this sort of thing happens, people tend to lump all Muslims together, which is unfortunate as I know the Islamic religion is one of peace. |
Thats due to the situation. The same feelings that lead some to become extremists. |
That's what I was saying. Non-extremists (within any group of people) do not react in a violent way, so extremism must surely come first, and then the actions.
If anyone were to critizise my religion, or make eroneous remarks, I would not react violently because it's not my way, it's not the way of my religion.JoeFriday: Where do you get your information? The Kill Mohamed Fact Book?
First of all, the Christens were not as oppressed as you think and most of the Muslims at the time had Christan ancestors who converted AND the Christens in the middle east where not Catholics but eastern Orthodox and they did not recognise the power of the pope.
They crusaders where nothing but fanatical Catholics, much like the people trying to blow us up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
Read | Quote: |
| Crossaders and chritians who wanted to control middle east once , has arosed again , but now in another way. |
Crusaders and Christians don't seek to control the Middle East. They seek an end to the terrorism that comes from the middle east.
| Quote: |
| USA,Erope and others are fighting muslims everywhere: |
What about the Muslims fighting us? What about the jihad declared on us? What about your holy war against the United States? You're not naive enough to think that if you declare a war on us, we will not fight, are you?
| Quote: |
| iraq,afghanistan,falastene,egypt,sudan,sheshan,lebanon,syria,iran....(please pay attention to events happening in this world, all of them are in muslims contries and are fired by usa and europe) and it's real and not a fack. |
I wonder if the "events" happening in those countries are due to the fact that people from those countries are attacking us, or plotting to attack us.
| Quote: |
| every muslim today is being foughted not by swords but by claiming that he is a criminal and should be killed, and if any muslim don't follow USA or erope then he is a criminal or by the bush's words "torrists". |
What on earth gives you this idea? The only thing that needs to happen is Islam needs to seperate itself from terrorism, something Islam has not tried to do.
Desperate times call for desperate measures, and until so called Muslims stop killing innocent Americans, we won't leave it alone. Sorry, we don't lie over dead and let the terrorists dance around on us.Soulfire: The west started it, I've already said how. And there not terrorists, terrorism is to subjective, call them what they are, fundamentalist extremists, like the crusaders of the past, they are on a crusade (a the crusades where holy wars against Islam, jihad means holy war) against the west.
Note to those who is going to twist my words and say I support them, I don't, I'm explaining why things are happening. And knowing the "why" makes you much closer to salving it. Which would be to stop doing the shit that makes them think that we won;t to kill all Muslims and start repairing the reputation of the Us and the west.
| Quote: |
| Soulfire: The west started it, I've already said how. And there not terrorists, terrorism is to subjective, call them what they are, fundamentalist extremists, like the crusaders of the past, they are on a crusade (a the crusades where holy wars against Islam, jihad means holy war) against the west. |
Perhaps you should tell me just how again. The way I see it, our mere existance is the only reason these Muslim Terrorists are trying to kill us.
Terrorism is NOT subjective - I am not saying that it is Islam's fault, but I am saying they are terrorists. To them, that may be a good thing, to us, it's not. Beat around the bush all you want - when it comes down to it, killing innocent people (at least in my opinion) makes you a terrorist.
Notice that the CRUSADES WERE IN THE PAST. Why do people keep using it as if it hurts Christianity? Or why do they use it to oppose Christianity? It happened in the past, something I nor any other modern day Christian can change. You learn from histories mistakes. Apparently Muslims haven't learned quite yet.
Blow up our buldings, we come into your country - simple as that.[quote="Soulfire"] | Quote: |
Notice that the CRUSADES WERE IN THE PAST. Why do people keep using it as if it hurts Christianity? Or why do they use it to oppose Christianity? It happened in the past, something [b]
|
because they(the PEOPLE you mean about) can not find any other
Holy War of Christian to BLAME!!! or to giving them 'good reason' to fight with the Christian and something related with Christian like Jewish.
this is eternity war since their book start:
Cursing Jewish and claiming HolyBible(InJiil) is not orginal anymore. Soulfire: Yes terrorism is subjective, because theres no solid definition of it, its like evil, both you and I agree on that they are evil, they disagree just as they dis agree that the are terrorists. People who do evil never call them selves or believe them selves to be evil, the same goes for terrorism, those are why its subjective.
Why do they won't to kill us? cause they think we are evil imperialist who won't to conquer the world, kill all Muslims and only really care about two things, Israel and oil. Why? Look at my previous posts in this topic.
The crusades represent the worst of Christianity, they represent the horrid past and potential future. Yes Christens have changed over the century's but there is still the hard core fundamentalist faction and if they take roots and grow the crusades can happen again.
And you know what scars me? It has taken root. If you look around you can see it, you can see it in the Evangelicals. Evangelical Christianity, fundamentalists with buzz wards attached. And the most powerful Christan leaders in this country are fundamentalists and won't America to become a theocracy. Cause they hold the damn bible as the absolute literal word of God and above every thing else.
I saw that joe, but figured if I posted it I'd get called a racist.
That's a great bobble-head.
*Image removed by wumingsden* oh, I'm not condoning that novelty item.. that would be wrong to do anything that might in some way offend any other person on the planet.. and if I did offend someone in any way, that person who was offended, would have just cause to call out a death wish on me for being intolerant
but I was just saying that's where I got mine in case you wanted one, too
and I'm definitely not in any way suggesting that you or anyone else use that image for their avatar
My post are mostly accurate and are based on logic reasoning and evidence, your are based on an irrational fear and hatred of Islam.
I don't see the world as this group or that group, I see it as it really is, a series and actions and reactions, every action being a reaction. Thus I look at the reasons why people do what they do and why they think that way, and what lead them to there conclusions.
I don't see them as evil inhuman animals as you do, I see them a people who think they are doing the right thing.
They believe that that the US is an evil empire who wonts to take over the world, wonts to kill all Muslims and only cares about Israel and oil. They think of the other European nations in a similar light.
Islamic militant fundamentalism was burn out of the actions of the west, the primary cause id the Palestinian Israeli conflict, started by the Israelis (who are supported by the west from the begging) another large factor was the Iranian revolution, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan helped too.
Those are just some of the factor, there are many more.
Religion was injected into the conflicts through oppression and poverty, oppression and poverty causes hopelessness and hopelessness leads people to religion.
The situation is far more complicated that we are the good guys and they are the bad and the answer is even more complicated.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| My post are mostly accurate and are based on logic reasoning and evidence, your are based on an irrational fear and hatred of Islam. |
Your posts ignore facts repeatedly. Even when they're posted over and over and over and over. If you don't agree with them, you dismiss them or claim they're in-accurate. You do it all the time. It's almost funny how much you get away with as far as not providing proof for your statements.
| Quote: |
| I don't see the world as this group or that group, I see it as it really is, a series and actions and reactions, every action being a reaction. Thus I look at the reasons why people do what they do and why they think that way, and what lead them to there conclusions. |
Actually, this makes a lot of sense. Because when you talk, you always seem to take the position that those killing women and children purposely and repeatedly are somehow not responsible for their actions. It's always the "West's" fault.
| Quote: |
| I don't see them as evil inhuman animals as you do, I see them a people who think they are doing the right thing. |
You have just sealed your alignment with them. It's nice to know what side you're on. The side with the same people who fly stolen planes into buildings full of women and children, killing thousands with no regard for life, or for honor, respect, or any shred of decency whatsoever. It's ok in your opinion to strap a bomb to your kids and send them off to a market to kill other kids and thier mothers.
| Quote: |
| They believe that that the US is an evil empire who wonts to take over the world, wonts to kill all Muslims and only cares about Israel and oil. They think of the other European nations in a similar light. |
They????
I thought you didn't see them as groups? Then why do you clearly and repeatedly group them?
But you're right, we want to kill all muslims. 
We do not allow Muslims to live in our country. We do not allow Muslims to have Mosques in our country. We do not allow Muslims to vote, to run for office, to pray, to eat sleep or shit. We just don't allow it. We hate them all. All over the world. We hate them everywhere we sacrifice our own lives to protect theirs. We hate them with all the money and support we give them in times of need, like disasters or dictators or mass murder by their so-called Peaceful and Tolerant leaders.
We hate them all and will not tolerate them in our society. EVER! . (You're a ****ing moron for believing that crap, Con. You make me sick.)
| Quote: |
Islamic militant fundamentalism was burn out of the actions of the west, the primary cause id the Palestinian Israeli conflict, started by the Israelis (who are supported by the west from the begging) another large factor was the Iranian revolution, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan helped too.
Those are just some of the factor, there are many more. |
Islamic militants have been doing this crap for centuries. Don't try to blame the west for it. The west used to do it too, but they grew out of it. The west realized it was wrong. What's the problem with these militants? They never grew up? Never got an education? How many excuses can you come up with to try to justify their barbaric actions and ideals?
Islam has literally been at war with all other religions since its inception. It looks at the world as being divided between Islam (Dar es Islam) and the world of the infidel, (Dar es Harb) the unbeliever, the world of war. The central prayer of Islam, the Kalima, spoken daily, states "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet." Mohammed said, "The sword is the key to Heaven and Hell." By contrast, six hundred years earlier, Jesus said, "He who lives by the sword shall perish by the sword."I haven't' ignored any facts, you are the one who ignore the facts, the real facts in place of unsubstantiated claims on biased web sites. How many times have you posted some quote from the Qu'ran only for some one to to post a much bigger quote that contains your quote and what it says above it and below it. You ignore brutal honest facts in place of your propaganda,
I don't justify any killing what so ever. Causing unnecessary death is the biggest wrong you could do and that is what the fundamentalist militants are doing. I try to understand why they do it cause by understanding the cause and effect, that gives you an understanding of how to salve the problem. And yes, I see them as people doing what they believe is right, but so where the nazis, crusaders, Stalin and Charles Manson. Dose that make them good? Hell no! Are they evil? Yes! Very evil!
I didn't say we wonted to, I said that what they believe.
And Islam has not been at war with other religion's for century's, fundamentalist Islamic militant haven't been doing this for century's. This is a modern things.
The ancient Islamic empires where some of the kindest in history, I they didn't force Christan's and Jews to Convert and when there were no moscs in a city they prayed in churches and synagogues. When the crusaders took Jerusalem's they killed every Muslim man woman and child that they could find, they killed many Jews as well but when the Muslims took it back, they let the captured crusaders go.
At its height the Muslim world was the center of knowledge and learning, we wouldn't have the story's by Homer, the writings of and about the grate Greek philosophers Plato, Societies, and Aristotle if it weren't for the Islamic empires.
Why don't you start learning instead of repeating anti Islam propaganda!
The situation now is caused primely by the west, the actions of the US and other country's.Look at the world around you, look at why there doing and why they believe i what they believe and the events that lead to the currant situation. Only in doing that could you find the answer to it.
*edited by wumingsden*
| woundedhealer wrote: |
| It's only the extremists that wants to turn the UK into an Islamic country. |
Incorrect. A recent Government survey fount that over 60% (I forgot the whole figure and the source) of Muslims would like the UK to be an Islamic country.
| woundedhealer wrote: |
| It seems to the world that Muslims can only react to situations in an aggresive manner. |
I see your point of view but the media only shows the bad reactions, nothing else. I have a lot of Muslim friends and although they weren't happy about "the speech" they did not get aggressive.
| woundedhealer wrote: |
| Take for instance the Pope's recent remarks, which he probably should not have said. |
In my opinion everyone should have their own opinion. Although I didn't like the speech (note that I know just about nothing about it), I think he should be allowed to say what he wanted.
| woundedhealer wrote: |
| which is unfortunate as I know the Islamic religion is one of peace. |
Yes, it is unfortunate. Its just the selected few that think killing non-muslims is not a Sin. But like all things, different people interpret different things in different ways.
Mod-Hat:
I have had to edit some posts in this thread. If you wish to continue with this discussion then please do so maturely | Quote: |
woundedhealer wrote:
It seems to the world that Muslims can only react to situations in an aggresive manner.
I see your point of view but the media only shows the bad reactions, nothing else. I have a lot of Muslim friends and although they weren't happy about "the speech" they did not get aggressive. |
That's why I used the phrase "it seems to the world". Although most rational people know these acts aren't representative of all Muslims, there are many blinkered and racist people who believe all Muslims are either terrorists or terrorist sympathisers.Enough, please post in the proper thread.
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