This topic is come from my School Subject "Philosophy of Man" with an "Epoche" topic:
According to Ten Commandments of God written on Bible
(Exodus 20:2-17 and identical to Deuteronomy 5:6-21):
2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above...
Since this is directly written on the Bible, I'm very confused about what is happening on the Roman Catholic Religion. They have the Sculpture of Christ, Mary, Angel, and other Saints. And this is against the Eternal Law, right?
What would be you Comment about this?
I'm a Roman Catholic. And I'm Proud of it.
| monzoncf wrote: |
Since this is directly written on the Bible, I'm very confused about what is happening on the Roman Catholic Religion. They have the Sculpture of Christ, Mary, Angel, and other Saints. And this is against the Eternal Law, right?
What would be you Comment about this?
I'm a Roman Catholic. And I'm Proud of it. |
You will find many quotations in the bible that are not apparently observed in the modern era. You first need to understand what the Catholic position on the innerrancy of the Bible is (ie since the bible is divinely inspired then it must be inerrant (without error) but that does not mean it has to be interpreted literally).
The Catholic position is laid out in Dei Verbum, from Vatican 2. You can examine this here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dei_Verbum
In a nutshell the Catholic church has the position that the bible is divinely inspired and accurate but that since human agencies were involved then you have to be careful about interpreting the scriptures to get the intended meaning. The Church also goes on to state that the ultimate authority to decide correct interpretation rests with the Church through its apparatus in the magisterium.
If bible contradictions interest you then you can also have a look here for a list of apparently contradictory quotes from the Bible.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/short.html
Regards
Chrisi've made my own section of Bible problems and contradictions. It needs to be updated, when i finish doing other stuff, but it's okay: http://www.islamhope.co.nr/articles/corrupted1.html Maybe it's time for you to do a deep research about your faith. If you don't, you will be likely proselytized by other religion's faith.
It is also of note that Saints, Mary, and Jesus were are actual physical people so there are recreations of thier phyical form, if those are immoral, then by that standard we can't have pictures of people who have died or anything that is not of our physical world.
Just a thought.
| MyNameIsJim wrote: |
It is also of note that Saints, Mary, and Jesus were are actual physical people so there are recreations of thier phyical form, if those are immoral, then by that standard we can't have pictures of people who have died or anything that is not of our physical world.
Just a thought. |
^Exactly
Those particular verses were probably meant to guard against idol worship; which is something I think the catholic church has a problem with.Go find your roots brother – Catholicism was started by Constantine. Find out and find the truth – and the truth will set you free. | Rico wrote: |
| Go find your roots brother – Catholicism was started by Constantine. Find out and find the truth – and the truth will set you free. |
where do you take your ideas from? you're saying constantine founded catholicism? read carefuly your sources.. even they confirm that catholicism already existed by the times of constantine...so please, don't invent stuff, people may believe it. | Rico wrote: |
| Go find your roots brother – Catholicism was started by Constantine. Find out and find the truth – and the truth will set you free. |
Yes, I actualy already knew that. However, just because they got off to that start dosn't mean they havn't changed... That was a long time ago.Thank You to all of you guys. I'll try my best to do my part in seeking the truth... Thanks once again... Peace!
Truth aside, I don't see how that is on topic with helping with the idolatry debate at all. And as for the Catholic church having a problem with idolatry, I don't think it's any bigger of a deal for Catholics than it is for any other devotion. Sure some Catholics worship wrong and confuse the shadow for the form, but so do other people, I think its just easier to pick on catholics for it.
Cool, I just got off of a Koran contradictions site. Every religion has one.
I don't understand why people can't stop trying to poke holes in peoples' beliefs. If you are honestly a Muslim - why would you care so much about tearing down the Bible if you're right. Is it because you are afraid that the Bible is true, that you seek to discredit it? | Soulfire wrote: |
Cool, I just got off of a Koran contradictions site. Every religion has one.
I don't understand why people can't stop trying to poke holes in peoples' beliefs. If you are honestly a Muslim - why would you care so much about tearing down the Bible if you're right. Is it because you are afraid that the Bible is true, that you seek to discredit it? |
peace be upon you.
After the Christians spent hours studying the Qur'an and realised they could not find any contradictions, they had to half quote verses, twist meanings, use bad translations to create contradictions.
There are no real contradictions in the Qur'an.
http://www.submission.org/answering-Islam.htm shows the response to these 'contradictions'.
may God bless you.It is important to understand the context and culture in which this command was given.
When you think of the example of the Golden Calf, you quickly understand
why God had given this law to His people.
The issue then becomes are you looking to and seeking help from the object or are you
looking to that which it represents?
I personally own many different images and icons but neither pray to them or seek them for help.
They stand as a reminder and nothing more. They do not contain magical powers. They are certainly not my God.
Therefore, in short, it is not a breaking of the second commandment to have a crucifix
or "image" of God. It is a breaking of the commandment if you begin to worship it.
I hope this helps mono, and a longer post concerning the subject can be made if needed.
| monzoncf wrote: |
This topic is come from my School Subject "Philosophy of Man" with an "Epoche" topic:
According to Ten Commandments of God written on Bible
(Exodus 20:2-17 and identical to Deuteronomy 5:6-21):
2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above...
Since this is directly written on the Bible, I'm very confused about what is happening on the Roman Catholic Religion. They have the Sculpture of Christ, Mary, Angel, and other Saints. And this is against the Eternal Law, right?
What would be you Comment about this?
I'm a Roman Catholic. And I'm Proud of it. |
First, I'd ask you to read Numbers 21 where Yahweh commands Moses to have the likeness of a saraph sculpted in bronze. Whoever looked upon that sculpted image was to be cured from snake bites. This is one case in the Bible where God himself orders the making of a sculpted image. This means that not all sculpted images are against the religion of Yahweh.
What is actually prohibited is idolatry: to treat images as if they were God. I don't think any Catholic would say that he/she is worshipping a sculpted image. Catholics like three-dimensional pictures and they use it even in worship as an admission that they are human beings who need the aid of such images so as to fix their gaze on heavenly things.There is always a line that must be drawn between using a picture, statue, icon, or what have you as an aid in worship and it becoming the object of worship. I'm going to agree with the people who have said before that it is idolatry that the sin. If you care to read some more about idolatry newadvent.com has a article I thought was pretty good about it. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07636a.htm Check it out if you have time. Whenever there are contradictions, I consider the subject of contradiction null. It doesn't make sense to babble over these silly things. What we should be doing is finding the commonalities in all holy scriptures and forming a universal belief system for our planet. It's easier than it sounds.
| Rico wrote: |
| Go find your roots brother – Catholicism was started by Constantine. Find out and find the truth – and the truth will set you free. |
Wrong, it was long before that, it was established as the religion of ROME by constantine and as such was spread by their exploits. He did NOT start it, he played a major part in establishing it as a religion, yes, but he did not invent it.People should be spending time figuring out how to live their lives better. How to make happiness for themselves and others through the teachings of God, whoever they choose to think God is. A contradiction is only a contradiction when you think two things have opposite meanings. Just because you think they have opposite meanings doesn't mean they do. And just because a particular body of text is without contradiction doesn't mean that it wasn't just carefully written or based on false premises.
Premise 1: The sky is red.
Premise 2: All things red are dangerous.
Conclusion from premises 1 and 2: The sky is dangerous.
The conclusion is "valid" because the logic is fine and it is without contradiction. However, it is not "sound" because the premises are false.
To understand perfectly the word of God is to claim his knowledge and wisdom falsely. I would encourage everyone to recognize their own deficiencies in understanding and work on them to do their part to make the world a better place.
This thread has gotten tremendously off topic. Shame too, I thought it could have created some very good dialouge.
Thank you guys for your opinions and for the resources. May God guide you and bless you forever. 
2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above...
--------------------
Hi, am happy to know that you're confused about what Roman Cathilic did because it's my pleasure to share on what I have read in the Bible..You know monzoncf, this practice is being followed not only for Roman Catholic but also in other religion. Sculpted image was done even before Christ like hard headed Israelites and pagan.
Because God gives them freedom, this practice is being followed until now even if they know that God prohibits them. Roman Catholic priests know that this practice is wrong but because it's a tradition, they never correct it. It's just like on other traditions followed by some people such as Christmas, Valentine's Day, Birthday, All saint's day, fiesta, etc. This traditions are not written in the Bible that we need to celebrate it, but because this is done by majority, people practice it without considering if these traditions are pleasing to the eyes of God or not.
Bible said that there are only 2 ways, for life and for death. People said that there's no true religion, but how can we know if the way that we follow is to life if our religion never taught and practice on what is written in the Bible? They said that we can find it by ourselves and we will be saved through our deeds. But do you believe that we can follow the right way if the religion that we have never practice on the law of God? I think it's imposible. Religion is our way. Therefore, we need to know if our religion follows on what is written at James 4:4..
I think you're taking that line out of context.
The complete Verse Exodus 20:4-6 From the New International Version:
| Quote: |
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
|
To just say that you can't make a sculpted image of anything in the heavens of earth would mean than any statues or sculptures would be in violation of this rule. That is not how I interpret the above verses because it's not the whole thing. It's the part about not bowing down to them or worshipping them that is important.
As a Catholic, we are not worshipping the sculpture or image. It doesn't say we can't create them to help remind us of God and help us to worship Him. Even if we bow down to pray in front of a crucifix, we aren't bowing down to the Crucifix itself. We are bowing down to God and using the Crucifix as a spiritual aid. What do you want us to do, turn in a direction that has no sculptures or pictures and THEN bow down to pray? | bluedragon wrote: |
| Whenever there are contradictions, I consider the subject of contradiction null. It doesn't make sense to babble over these silly things. What we should be doing is finding the commonalities in all holy scriptures and forming a universal belief system for our planet. It's easier than it sounds. |
Don't worry. Near the time of the rapture that will happen. Anybody read the Left Behind novels? Puts Revelations into an easy to see perspective. Dr. Tim Lahaye writes alot about interpreting prophecy, google some of his stuff. | DeanOlicious wrote: |
| Don't worry. Near the time of the rapture that will happen. Anybody read the Left Behind novels? Puts Revelations into an easy to see perspective. Dr. Tim Lahaye writes alot about interpreting prophecy, google some of his stuff. |
Tim Lahaye and the Left Behind crap is a joke. Your time would be better spent poking your eye with a fork. If you're interested in getting a time tested (older than the past 100 years or so) understanding of Revelations do some reading up on Jewish Apoctolyptic Literature, and some studying about the 1st century christian church under roman occupation.
