here's an interesting site that gives a pretty good idea of what is considered traditional values in muslim countries.. stonings, lashings, genital mutilations, taking photos of babies propped up with automatic weapons
WARNING: contains graphic images
http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/ hmmm, i dont like the way you put it. This article or whatever it is, the only thing it does is highlight what is seen as bad. I think it's ignorant to say that this site gives a pretty good idea of what is considered traditional values in muslim countries. It only highlights what we see on TV, which is mostly the bad, and we are so brainwashed by the media that we don't even take the time to think of the good things. Don't believe everything you hear, or go ahead and jump off a cliff.
well yeah, I admit it's very biased and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.. my comment about 'traditional muslim values' was mostly tongue in cheek.. however, this is all an example of the ultra-conservative view that radical muslims take
I will disagree with your comment about this being what we see in the media.. because the media tend to whitewash or ignore the harsher realities of living in muslim countries.. in fact, if you based your impression of muslim countries solely on US tv, you'd think the people were just very enthusiastic about their religion.. you won't know anything about the frequency of honor killings, children being used as human shields in armed battles, school textbooks that give examples of how jews kill palestinians and drink their blood (yes, that is really what books say), or child abuse in the form of religious practices.. such as the day when all the males march through town slicing their heads with machetes and letting the blood run down their faces.. parents encourage their kids as young as 3 years old to participate
some might call this traditional or disturbing.. others might call it psychotic
Last edited by JoeFriday on Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
And someone will post with "but what about the good things in these countries."
I'm sorry, but something "good" doesn't cover up acts like these.
I was always taught that Muslims practiced love and acceptence, but one must admit they are also capable of acts of absolute brutaly. The US is no better (I am a US citzen). It seems that in just about every country in the world is capable of brutality whenever religion comes into play.
I am not getting down on any religion, but it seems people the world over will, and do, things they normally wouldn't do if they believe it will bring them closer to God.
you think christians in underdeveloped countries have much better traditions? it's not the religion, it's simply living in the bronze age (remeber the christian medieval times?)
Christians have done some horrendous things (and in some cases still do) in those times...but this is not the Bronze Age anymore.
| JoeFriday wrote: |
\
.. in fact, if you based your impression of muslim countries solely on US tv, you'd think the people were just very enthusiastic about their religion.. you won't know anything about the frequency of honor killings, children being used as human shields in armed battles, school textbooks that give examples of how jews kill palestinians and drink their blood (yes, that is really what books say), or child abuse in the form of religious practices.. such as the day when all the males march through town slicing their heads with machetes and letting the blood run down their faces.. parents encourage their kids as young as 3 years old to participate. |
Actually I do already know all of that, and I know it through the media. Nice oint, but while the media does washout the bad IMAGES, that is mostly what they talk about. The Quran never says anything about killing, what they do is NOT a religious act, only because they say it is, it doesn't make child abuse, killing or such act a religious act. One--because it's not in their bible. If you disagree, well I disagree with you. I'll give you a simple example. A person who claims to be a christian kills someone and also claims to have done it in the name of God. Would you call that a religious act, a christian act? I don't think so. The Holy Bible forbids it, and therefore that act is not a christian act. Such acts are also forbidden in the Quran.
If what they do is really a religious act, then it must be some other religion that no one has cared to give a name, but don't blame the muslim religion for the bad causes. If you are wondering, no I am not a muslim. | Soulfire wrote: |
And someone will post with "but what about the good things in these countries."
I'm sorry, but something "good" doesn't cover up acts like these. |
It's not every body that does this. Why should a bad thing be used to relate every body else in that country or group? Stop generalizing, why does the entire middle east have to be bad?? or at least all of Iraq, or Iran, etc... Newsflash!::: People over there DO good things too, and those things don't have to cover up anything.All I can say about JoeFriday and the likes of him is that they are brainwashed people. It is very easy to critisize Islam as there is a global movement going on against this religion. So every Tom, Dick and Harry finds it convenient to critisize Islam when he finds nothing else to speak about.
These people are so much concerned about what happens in some parts of Muslim countries, while they never find time to find out what happens in civilized Christians countries. Because hating and criticizing Islam is the HYPE in the western media, these people never miss an opportunity to take part in this hype, as it also makes them look educated and civilized among their own people.
If these people are shameless enough to blame Islam for lashings, mutilations, and babies with weapons in some coutries of the world, then let us see in how many ways Chritanity can be blamed for much worse brutalities:
here I am only going to list just a few things which may be related to christanity.
How many children are abused and women are raped in Christian countries each year? Has anyone tried to find out? maybe christanity teaches rape!
We have seen in news countless number of times that a child is kidnapped, raped and buthchered by a grown up christian. Christanity is so brutal, isn't it?
How many kids attempt or commit rape in chriatian countries? According to a US Amanac of the 80's, about 1000 12 year olds comitted rape in USA alone, maybe rape is encouraged for kids in christanity.
How many kids in christian countries take drugs and alcohol? maybe christanity encourages drug abuse.
And what about the use of children in pornography? it needs no more elaboration as there are hundreds of websites to explain that
And these people are worried about Muslim kids photographed with guns, and what about kids with guns entering their schools and mercilessly killing other kids? This is something not found in any other religion of the world, including Islam.
And about torture, how many torture centers are operated by christian countries around the world where the most gruesome torture methods are applied on human beings to cause them maximum pain. these countries have developed a science of torture which is taught to their agents and millitary people.
And when it comes to killing people, we should count them from the crusades and colonialization and world wars in between till the Iraq war.
And who invented the Nuclear weapons, Huge sized bombs and used them on humans and continue to "Modernize" them and continue to use them on one pretext or other?
So much more can be blamed on christanity that it requires volumes of books to write in detail. But for any sane person, even the above facts are more than enough
| JoeFriday wrote: |
well yeah, I admit it's very biased and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.. my comment about 'traditional muslim values' was mostly tongue in cheek.. however, this is all an example of the ultra-conservative view that radical muslims take
I will disagree with your comment about this being what we see in the media.. because the media tend to whitewash or ignore the harsher realities of living in muslim countries.. in fact, if you based your impression of muslim countries solely on US tv, you'd think the people were just very enthusiastic about their religion.. you won't know anything about the frequency of honor killings, children being used as human shields in armed battles, school textbooks that give examples of how jews kill palestinians and drink their blood (yes, that is really what books say), or child abuse in the form of religious practices.. such as the day when all the males march through town slicing their heads with machetes and letting the blood run down their faces.. parents encourage their kids as young as 3 years old to participate
some might call this traditional or disturbing.. others might call it psychotic |
Funny thing is that some of those text books and most of the radical islamic books were printed first, right here in the USA.
University of Nebraska to be exact. Back in the 70's.
Our government built radical islam to fight the commies by proxy. Thought they were real clever. Now they use it to frighten us into sumbission. | Soulfire wrote: |
And someone will post with "but what about the good things in these countries."
I'm sorry, but something "good" doesn't cover up acts like these. |
Excellent point.
Bad is bad.
I don't really care myself. It's their children. It's their country. As long as they stay there and only do it to their own, I will be uneffected.People from all walks of life can, and do, commit atrocities daily, and some use religion as an excuse for thier actions. The media and the government have done a fine job at giving us someone to point a finger at and say "look how bad they are, and they call themselves religious", when in fact real religion plays little or no part in it.
I comes down to a bunch of people trying to force themselves, or beliefs, on another group of people and using religion as an excuse for thier own misdeeds.
hmmm, i like where this is going
| carlospro7 wrote: |
| hmmm, i like where this is going |
Towards spam posts? | Vrythramax wrote: |
Towards spam posts? |
why would you call it that? while people here post to keep their websites up, they're also expressing themselves. I hope... | JoeFriday wrote: |
| give examples of how jews kill palestinians and drink their blood (yes, that is really what books say |
yes , this is true
but not related with muslims and middle east
in middle ages , europen people used to believe this story
they used to believe jews do this kind of thing in jews holly days.
because of this , they killed millions of jews between 1200 and 1945.I checked out the site and the creator/editor of the site, a Mr. Daniel Katz. By all appearances he is a Jewish and as such very pro-Israeli with an address in Germany. It is not surprising to find that the site is very slanted in one direction. I am not defending what the pictures show but pictures can be misleading as everyone knows. I am sure that we could show examples such as Wounded Knee or My Lai, Russian Gulags or interrogations by the Massad that would be equally chilling.
This is an excerpt from a historic journal about a place called Sand Creek.
| Quote: |
Black Kettle ever trusting raised both an American and a white flag of peace over his tepee. In response, Chivington raised his arm for the attack. Chivington wanted a victory, not prisoners, and so men, women and children were hunted down and shot.
With cannons and rifles pounding them, the Indians scattered in panic. Then the crazed soldiers charged and killed anything that moved. A few warriors managed to fight back to allow some of the tribe to escape across the stream, including Black Kettle.
The colonel was as thourough as he was heartless. An interpreter living in the village testified, "THEY WERE SCALPED, THEIR BRAINS KNOCKED OUT; THE MEN USED THEIR KNIVES, RIPPED OPEN WOMEN, CLUBBED LITTLE CHILDREN, KNOCKED THEM IN THE HEAD WITH THEIR RIFLE BUTTS, BEAT THEIR BRAINS OUT, MUTILATED THEIR BODIES IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD." By the end of the one-sided battle as many as 200 Indians, more than half women and children, had been killed and mutilated. |
I am sure that if we took this detailed account and added pictures we could make a plausible argument that Americans are heartless butchers.
My point is to say that websites that are created with their own agenda and their own narrow perspective, without any attempt at balance, should not be taken as accurate since they withhold any data that does not support their viewpoint. they are not all the same one, at least i dont think so. every muslam do this kinds of things? i think not.
I checked out the site and the creator/editor of the site, a Mr. Daniel Katz. By all appearances he is a Jewish and as such very pro-Israeli with an address in Germany. It is not surprising to find that the site is very slanted in one direction. I am not defending what the pictures show but pictures can be misleading as everyone knows. I am sure that we could show examples such as Wounded Knee or My Lai, Russian Gulags or interrogations by the Massad that would be equally chilling.
This is an excerpt from a historic journal about a place called Sand Creek.
| Quote: |
Black Kettle ever trusting raised both an American and a white flag of peace over his tepee. In response, Chivington raised his arm for the attack. Chivington wanted a victory, not prisoners, and so men, women and children were hunted down and shot.
With cannons and rifles pounding them, the Indians scattered in panic. Then the crazed soldiers charged and killed anything that moved. A few warriors managed to fight back to allow some of the tribe to escape across the stream, including Black Kettle.
The colonel was as thourough as he was heartless. An interpreter living in the village testified, "THEY WERE SCALPED, THEIR BRAINS KNOCKED OUT; THE MEN USED THEIR KNIVES, RIPPED OPEN WOMEN, CLUBBED LITTLE CHILDREN, KNOCKED THEM IN THE HEAD WITH THEIR RIFLE BUTTS, BEAT THEIR BRAINS OUT, MUTILATED THEIR BODIES IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD." By the end of the one-sided battle as many as 200 Indians, more than half women and children, had been killed and mutilated. |
I am sure that if we took this detailed account and added pictures we could make a plausible argument that Americans are heartless butchers.
My point is to say that websites that are created with their own agenda and their own narrow perspective, without any attempt at balance, should not be taken as accurate since they withhold any data that does not support their viewpoint. diverden: i totally agree with you
THIS IS NOT AN ILLUSION.
I repeat... THIS IS NOT AN ILLUSION
Some of you are out of your minds thinking he made this up.
See the UN's official report on the situation.
http://www.middle-east-info.org/league/somalia/fgh-who.pdf
These practices are carried out, FGM in particular by millions of people worldwide.
If you think this is an illusion you haven't the slightest clue what crazy Shlt people get up to. Don't just believe what you wanna believe, you have to know what's happening in the real world, if you care about the rest of the people in this world.
Think of all the people dying from hunger, or the human sacrifices that are still taking place, or child rapes that are legal, or women abused or homosexuals killed, all for what. It's really happening. That's a fact and if you don't care you can tell yourself it's not real. Many women around the world are treated as pets or worse and genital mutilation, rape, stoning, etc... are just s few of the ways this is done. No one would defend the rights of anyone to do that to anyone else, no matter the reasons, but it is an awful broad brush that paints entire cultures as evil due to this. Until women have rights, and have power to change things cultural change will not happen. With men running most of the third world countries it is unlikely to change on its own. Many of these countries have a few "haves" who get richer by supporting the other "haves" and there is a large majority of have-nots, in which women are most often at the bottom of the food chain.
Western countries, especiallly the US are the largest arms suppliers in the world and many of these arms allow the leaders in the countries that are abusing women/children, to stay in power. If we empower the wicked then are not equally to blame? Edmund Burke said it best I think:
| Quote: |
| The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. |
| Quote: |
| It's not every body that does this. Why should a bad thing be used to relate every body else in that country or group? Stop generalizing, why does the entire middle east have to be bad?? or at least all of Iraq, or Iran, etc... Newsflash!::: People over there DO good things too, and those things don't have to cover up anything. |
So we're just to overlook the bad, throw some sugary sprinkles on it, and pretend it's all okay? | Soulfire wrote: |
| Quote: | | It's not every body that does this. Why should a bad thing be used to relate every body else in that country or group? Stop generalizing, why does the entire middle east have to be bad?? or at least all of Iraq, or Iran, etc... Newsflash!::: People over there DO good things too, and those things don't have to cover up anything. |
So we're just to overlook the bad, throw some sugary sprinkles on it, and pretend it's all okay? |
Actually, if you care your own problems
it will be better for you and for the rest of the world
if you search in google,
http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/violence/
you find how many women raped in a day in usa. | Lennon wrote: |
THIS IS NOT AN ILLUSION.
I repeat... THIS IS NOT AN ILLUSION
Some of you are out of your minds thinking he made this up.
See the UN's official report on the situation.
http://www.middle-east-info.org/league/somalia/fgh-who.pdf
These practices are carried out, FGM in particular by millions of people worldwide.
. |
yessssssssssssss
THIS IS NOT AN ILLUSION.
that is the big discovery
discovery of the 21. century
sory but where do you live
and how can you be so sure
these things happen in midde east by watching from ireland
i live for 32 years in this region
personally
i didn't see these kind of things
maybe those thing can be individually but
not generally
