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Metal Culture and Metal Kiddies





Tulkamir
Not sure if there are any metal heads out there, but if there are I was wondering if any of you have noticed a surge of little metal wanabe kiddies of late? Checking out HMV the other day in the metal section there was a group of young teens discussing metal. It was almost disgusting to listen to as a metalhead because they were all decked out in their "hardcore" gear (meaning they looked like idiotic emo/circus rejects) and had no clue what they were talking about.

Personally this kind of thing annoys the hell out of me. I'm very much a metal head, and know that metal and it's culture is largely looked down upon for unfair reasons. Kids like that only make it worse by giving metal an image that is not true to what it really is.

So, does anyone else see more of those kinds of "hardcore" kids around these days, and if so what do you think?
ThornsOfSorrow
Everyone seems to be a hardcore kid today. They all stretch their piercings so big that you can stick at least one finger through the hole, and they think it's fun to beat people up while listening to their favorite bands. I'm not as bothered by them as you seem to be, but it's annoying that, as you said, they know nothing about music. And the worst part is that hardcore bands have recently began to label themselves as "metal", when they're definitely not!

Also, this may make some people angry (and I'm sorry if it does), but I also can't stand the kids and teenagers who only listen to Metallica, Slayer, Pantera, Megadeth, etc. I know that those are the so-called "classic" metal bands, but it bugs me that these people can't move beyond that and discover all of the great, less popular bands out there! I did, and it made me realize that those bands that everyone listens to really aren't that great... Sorry for drifting slightly off-topic, but I really needed to rant about this.
Lusiphur
Local metal club, Schools Out came on. Me and mates sit back to chill out to a great song.

2 girls, in Pantera and a Cradle top walking to the dance floor saying "Someone has covered a Daphne and Celeste song, it better be good)"

.....

I'm a metaller, have been for many years now, and I agree with the annoyance of people that only listen to certain groups, what annoys me more though is ppl who listen to the likes of Linkin Park, CKY, Papa Roach or whatever nu-metal trash is doing the rounds and consider themselves metal. It makes the baby jesus cry, and when the baby jesus cries you know you've gone to far...
blackheart
I think every genre has it's scene kiddies. Punk, hardcore, metal, rock'n'roll... - and what I believe to be the worst affected genres - hip-hop, r'n'b and rap.

Hip-hop, etc, is not what it used to be. I'm lucky to know a few who take it back to the roots, and you should hear their frustration at all the chauvanistic "shake-your-thang" crime-gang wannabes on the radio and MTV.
Most people would never have heard what they consider to be "real" hip-hop/rap, but most people would have at least heard a bit of "real" rock music - of what-ever subgenre.

Even I don't really know much - Immortal Technique, Hilltop Hoods, and a handful of others are the extent of my knowledge.

But, I also believe every genre has it's genuin's. As for metal, I know a bunch of guys who are pretty fair-dinkum. Them and their Destroyer 666...
the_mariska
Lusiphur wrote:
I'm a metaller, have been for many years now, and I agree with the annoyance of people that only listen to certain groups, what annoys me more though is ppl who listen to the likes of Linkin Park, CKY, Papa Roach or whatever nu-metal trash is doing the rounds and consider themselves metal. It makes the baby jesus cry, and when the baby jesus cries you know you've gone to far...


Try to look at the matter from another point of view. For a few years I've been very strongly into underground hardcore punk stuff. One thing that annoyed me the most was the ignorance of all 'true' hardcore guys. But I've noticed that there's the same thing about all kinds of music - black metal, underground hiphop, gothic...

It really annoyed me horribly, that the true punkrockers had their own classification of what's hot or not. Hot were only the most underground and violent bands, that you had to know to be accepted within the crew. Not hot were all of the bands classified as 'commercial' [=known outside the exclusive circle of true hardcore punks], almost all of the bands that belonged to other music category, and definitely all of the bands that could be listened on the radio or tv.

I don't think that kids who listen to Linkin Park and call it metal are better than those who don't listen to anything but underground-true-black-death-satanic-metal. Both extreme sides are harmful as well. But these Linkin Park kids have a chance to grow up and start discovering really wonderful music. The other ones, who already think that they know the one and only 'true' music worth listening, are less probable to change their minds.

But there's also one sad thing about this all. Among these all classifications of what's metal and what's not we forget about the music itself. Which, in my humble opinion, should be the only criterium of choosing your favourite songs.
blackheart
the_mariska wrote:
Lusiphur wrote:
I'm a metaller, have been for many years now, and I agree with the annoyance of people that only listen to certain groups, what annoys me more though is ppl who listen to the likes of Linkin Park, CKY, Papa Roach or whatever nu-metal trash is doing the rounds and consider themselves metal. It makes the baby jesus cry, and when the baby jesus cries you know you've gone to far...


Try to look at the matter from another point of view. For a few years I've been very strongly into underground hardcore punk stuff. One thing that annoyed me the most was the ignorance of all 'true' hardcore guys. But I've noticed that there's the same thing about all kinds of music - black metal, underground hiphop, gothic...

It really annoyed me horribly, that the true punkrockers had their own classification of what's hot or not. Hot were only the most underground and violent bands, that you had to know to be accepted within the crew. Not hot were all of the bands classified as 'commercial' [=known outside the exclusive circle of true hardcore punks], almost all of the bands that belonged to other music category, and definitely all of the bands that could be listened on the radio or tv.

I don't think that kids who listen to Linkin Park and call it metal are better than those who don't listen to anything but underground-true-black-death-satanic-metal. Both extreme sides are harmful as well. But these Linkin Park kids have a chance to grow up and start discovering really wonderful music. The other ones, who already think that they know the one and only 'true' music worth listening, are less probable to change their minds.

But there's also one sad thing about this all. Among these all classifications of what's metal and what's not we forget about the music itself. Which, in my humble opinion, should be the only criterium of choosing your favourite songs.


mariska, Amen to that. You should see the exclusivity of (some of) the crews I know and/or have met/am in association with.

I like posts that make me think,
Cheers,
curnow
yeh scenesters have wrecked alot of things. u know what reallly annoys me? the girls that are wearing ramones shirts and dont even know who they are. i once asked one of these girls and they thought ramones was a fukin brand.
adpc88
There are new bands that label themselves as nu-Metal, some examples are Korn and Linkin Park, and people who hear them, they call themselve metal fans.

I think this is HOrrible, that bands are not meta, they just commercial rock, they just want to sell, and their music is crap.

Listen to some bands that are not so famous but they are really good.
Like Symphony x or Dragon Force.
blackheart
adpc88 wrote:
There are new bands that label themselves as nu-Metal, some examples are Korn and Linkin Park, and people who hear them, they call themselve metal fans.

I think this is HOrrible, that bands are not meta, they just commercial rock, they just want to sell, and their music is crap.

Listen to some bands that are not so famous but they are really good.
Like Symphony x or Dragon Force.


Far as I see it, their taste in music - or lack of it - doesn't affect yours. I'm guilty of having a whinge over "scene kiddies" myself, but maybe it's time we let it go.
As long as we support the bands that both need and deserve it, then that should be enough.

But... maybe you cold also just see this as an opportunity for humor, rather than frustration. Like when I asked a girl wearing a Ramones shirt if she liked the "Ram - O - Nays", and she said yes.

Heck, I guess we know-it-alls will never change... Razz.
Mannix
When you go to either extreme, in any genre, you are really just limiting yourself by not exploring anything outside of that. I'll listen to anything atleast, exept that god aweful "pimp my ho's" gang banger wannabe rap. Though I still have my favorites, what harm can come from exploring new music. Though it is limited, I recommend(though I'm sure many of you have already used it before) Pandora for finding new music. Put in what you like, and it will start playing music that has common qualities to what you put in, you can tweak it by giving songs thumbs up or thumbs down, or adding more music. Now to get back on topic, I think the ramones shirts have to come to a stop. Yes, they are a good band, but when so many people dont even know who they are when they wear a bands shirt, it really bastardizes the music... as do the people who falsely claim to be metal heads/punks when they only listen to the commercial bands.
Abysmo
In my opinion (that of a metalhead), Linkin Park, Papa Roach, Korn, etc are really no longer the threat to metal all around the world. Nu-metal has been on the decline for years and basically nowadays its not considered metal by even the people who listen to it. I think the large influx of the 'metalcore' genre is what grinds my gears. And despite being a fan of the early melodic death metal, I have to say some of the bands coming out nowadays slotting into that genre are terrible as well.

But to me, just as annoying as wannabe's are, zealots are just as bad. Hell, "The Inner Circle of Black Metal" is a perfect example of the other end of the spectrum. And the shit those funny Norweigans got up to is laughable.
achene
i know what you mean. all these kids listening to metal because they think it makes them cool or something. Ok, I can accept that but when they start calling themselves goth and wear black clothes because they listen to marilyn manson and slipknot etc i think its silly. Well, i listen to metal myself but i think that to many kids listen to "mainstream metal" (mostly nu-metal) like slipknot and when they start saying that bands like judas priest, black sabbath etc. isnt real metal (havent really heard anyone say it, but i could imagine that they say something like that, hehe) it would be to much.
Of cause its they same about other genres like hip hop.

Achene
Boles Roor
Thank you achene. I just hate it when stupid people call themselfs goth when they listen music such as Epica, After Forever, Nightwish, Evenscense and Within Temptation... I'm a goth myself, and it really annoys me when they ask me what kind of music I listen to, and then call me "wannabe" because they think Within Temptation etc. are goth. And the retarded media won't help either, displaying all those crappy images of people with panda faces and calling them goths.

There are estimates that there are about 2000-3000 "genuine" goths where I live(Holland). When you also take the "guffics"- as I like to call them - there are over 100.000. It just sucks. Sure, you can make fun of them really easy, like when they come to goth parties. Cool But beeing flocked by them idiots isn't nice either. Rolling Eyes

(yes not metal, but I still like to rant 'bout it)
Andrew426
Wow - alot of hate in this thread.

Although I do agree with many of the posts.

My friend Kelly is a good example of one of these 'scenekiddies. She has dyed black short hair, ushually some tight black tshirt, black jeans and thigh high black boots and basically all her friends dress exactly the same. She is obcessed with being non conformist, she even started a band and named it 'Kill the conformist' (their tagline is the 'enemy of individuality'). She recently saw vampirefreaks.com on tv (in relation to that canadian shooting massicare) and immediately joined it and told everyone how great it was and how special she was for joining it.

I have no problem with this, she can do whatever the hell she wants.

But I cant help but laugh when she calls me a freak because I am almost always wearing jeans and a tshirt, and often have grease stains over my hands and fingers from working on bikes, and because I listen to more than 1 genre of music.
the_mariska
Boles Roor wrote:
There are estimates that there are about 2000-3000 "genuine" goths where I live(Holland). When you also take the "guffics"- as I like to call them - there are over 100.000. It just sucks. Sure, you can make fun of them really easy, like when they come to goth parties. Cool But beeing flocked by them idiots isn't nice either. Rolling Eyes

(yes not metal, but I still like to rant 'bout it)

Well, there's one thing I still don't understand. I love Nightwish, could do with After Forever, don't feel like a goth, have never called myself a goth and don't want to, but still hear from my gothic friends "Leave this crap, this is not gothic, you should get into some more gothic stuff, blablabla, blablabla." The most funny thing is that I remember the same people in the very difficult age of 15, when they were fanatics of Nightwish and HIM. Maybe they hate these bands because of bad childhood memories?
arkebuzer
the_mariska wrote:
Boles Roor wrote:
There are estimates that there are about 2000-3000 "genuine" goths where I live(Holland). When you also take the "guffics"- as I like to call them - there are over 100.000. It just sucks. Sure, you can make fun of them really easy, like when they come to goth parties. Cool But beeing flocked by them idiots isn't nice either. Rolling Eyes

(yes not metal, but I still like to rant 'bout it)

Well, there's one thing I still don't understand. I love Nightwish, could do with After Forever, don't feel like a goth, have never called myself a goth and don't want to, but still hear from my gothic friends "Leave this crap, this is not gothic, you should get into some more gothic stuff, blablabla, blablabla." The most funny thing is that I remember the same people in the very difficult age of 15, when they were fanatics of Nightwish and HIM. Maybe they hate these bands because of bad childhood memories?


I personally think itīs all about their "image".
Many try to be very "metal" in their way and looks, probably just to fit in. Iīm not saying thatīs something negative, so no pun intended, I just mean that many listen to metal and wear piercings and leather just to look cool.
Personally I love metal, everything from nightwish to agathodaimon, hatebreed, defleshed and so on. Thing is that I enjoy some techno too, and I dont have any piercings and such.
My point is just that some people start listening to "softer" and not so extreme metal, like nightwish or so, and then when time passes they change into more extreme metal/goth. Since they think thatīs cool they dont want to even touch less "hard" music such as nightwish...
Just my view Wink
I dont say thatīs the trouth all the time, but from what I have seen this is often the case.

Regards
actualeffection
Quote:
Everyone seems to be a hardcore kid today. They all stretch their piercings so big that you can stick at least one finger through the hole, and they think it's fun to beat people up while listening to their favorite bands. I'm not as bothered by them as you seem to be, but it's annoying that, as you said, they know nothing about music. And the worst part is that hardcore bands have recently began to label themselves as "metal", when they're definitely not!


Heh, a few things first missy! Hardcore scene kids don't get stretched peircings. They get lip peircings, wear tight black girl pants with patches on them, have their hair dyed black, their hair is short in the back and long in the front, and they wear many belts. Just pointing all that out is all =P. It's funny though... How some would go through all that trouble to look like they are hardcore while missing out on what hardcore truly is. While the real hardcore kids just wear moshing hats and wear what is comfortable for circle pits, =). Heh.

As for metal... I think the common thing is people thinking Nu-Metal is Metal. Rolling Eyes I'm not really into metal or the metal scene, but I do know a few things. Most metal scene people tend to wear a lot of black clothes. Because metal is aparently gothic? I'm not sure, Embarassed . Heh...

Yeah I don't know much about the metal problem but I do know lots about hardcore. Because I, once upon a time, was a hardcore scene-ster. =( I survived these hard trials.
Lusiphur
the_mariska wrote:
Lusiphur wrote:
I'm a metaller, have been for many years now, and I agree with the annoyance of people that only listen to certain groups, what annoys me more though is ppl who listen to the likes of Linkin Park, CKY, Papa Roach or whatever nu-metal trash is doing the rounds and consider themselves metal. It makes the baby jesus cry, and when the baby jesus cries you know you've gone to far...


Try to look at the matter from another point of view. For a few years I've been very strongly into underground hardcore punk stuff. One thing that annoyed me the most was the ignorance of all 'true' hardcore guys. But I've noticed that there's the same thing about all kinds of music - black metal, underground hiphop, gothic...

It really annoyed me horribly, that the true punkrockers had their own classification of what's hot or not. Hot were only the most underground and violent bands, that you had to know to be accepted within the crew. Not hot were all of the bands classified as 'commercial' [=known outside the exclusive circle of true hardcore punks], almost all of the bands that belonged to other music category, and definitely all of the bands that could be listened on the radio or tv.

I don't think that kids who listen to Linkin Park and call it metal are better than those who don't listen to anything but underground-true-black-death-satanic-metal. Both extreme sides are harmful as well. But these Linkin Park kids have a chance to grow up and start discovering really wonderful music. The other ones, who already think that they know the one and only 'true' music worth listening, are less probable to change their minds.

But there's also one sad thing about this all. Among these all classifications of what's metal and what's not we forget about the music itself. Which, in my humble opinion, should be the only criterium of choosing your favourite songs.


Sorry for delay in responding to this post, not been online in a while.

I don't object to the music, hell on my MP3 player I have linken park and some papa roach, and if it's played in my metal bar I'll be on the dance floor within seconds. Same thing with Panterra, Metellica, Maiden or whatever.

I think the point I was trying to make was that I was annoyed at the group that thought that they are metal for listening to groups that aren't considered metal, the group that wouldn't listen to any explanation and just cursed their way out off arguements. Wonder was I like that when I was younger (god I sound old, am only 23 and I'm talking about the "good old days")...

On your punk point I agree, I'm not a huge punk fan, but i would listen to it, I was talking to a few punks recently and mentioned a passing liking of the music. On saying that I liked listening to teh DK's and Ramones better than the Exploited I was told I had to idea what the hell I was talking about. I laughed and walked off.

Maybe my perception is clouded from living in Belfast, our alternative scene is very small, and to be honest it is a bit narrow minded, I like to think I can look at things from others people point of view, maybe I should try more often.

I just felt that your post deserved a reply Smile
Luse.
tingkagol
genres sicken me. music is music.

For a lack of mainstream knowledge i'll use linkin park. by the way, linkin park AIN'T that bad if you look closer. They're a pretty decent band with decent lyrics for a pop-act if you ask me. I find their songs simple and catchy--- and that's ok in my book.

Underground bands are good too if you're looking for something refreshing. Not really into the death metal thingy or whatever... but i can listen to anything as long as the music is good.

i really hate people who namedrop bands they barely even listen to.
Boles Roor
the_mariska wrote:
Boles Roor wrote:
There are estimates that there are about 2000-3000 "genuine" goths where I live(Holland). When you also take the "guffics"- as I like to call them - there are over 100.000. It just sucks. Sure, you can make fun of them really easy, like when they come to goth parties. Cool But beeing flocked by them idiots isn't nice either. Rolling Eyes

(yes not metal, but I still like to rant 'bout it)

Well, there's one thing I still don't understand. I love Nightwish, could do with After Forever, don't feel like a goth, have never called myself a goth and don't want to, but still hear from my gothic friends "Leave this crap, this is not gothic, you should get into some more gothic stuff, blablabla, blablabla." The most funny thing is that I remember the same people in the very difficult age of 15, when they were fanatics of Nightwish and HIM. Maybe they hate these bands because of bad childhood memories?

I have no problem with people that listen any kind of music I don't like. Just don't call it goth when it isn't. The media just ****** with everything. I have many friends who like Within Temptation etc, and I'm fine with that. To be honest, I really like the first album of WT. But it isn't goth. And that's the problem. Razz

Just why would they hate those bands for bad childhood memories? Are they ashamed they used to like it? I used to like Metallica, but kinda grew out of it. I still like listening to an odd song, but not more. People shouldn't be ashamed of those things. There's nothing wrong with it, you were young, you've grown up now. Act like it.
tingkagol
you should think less about labeling and think more about the music. let them label their sh**- it doesn't make any difference-- hey, many people think UFOs exist.
Bakera
The only thing I'm sick of is listening to people judge one another with things like, "They don't know anything about music". Who is anyone to say someone you see at school or a concert doesn't know anything about it. 95% of the time people just say this because they can tell that they don't like the same type of music, and therefore, they know nothing of music. My best friend is a metal head, and I hate almost every bit of it, just as he hates what I listen to. Jungle Rot, Blood for Blood, Slipknot, whatever else he listens to I don't really know. One thing I do know is that he knows what he's listening to, he likes, and it makes him happy. That's enough for me. The only kids that should be insulted are the ones that actaully do beat people up and all that jazz. But I have straight edge friends who love Hardcore music and are the nicest people I know, even though they know I smoke and drink.

And just because someone may dress differently, you shouldn't assume anything about them. I know plenty of kids with double zero sized peircings and whatever else who wouldn't harm anyone, and who you would be surprised when you hear their music. All in all, it's about finding good people, and anyone who is assumptuous is a poser/wanabe/whatever.

Note, this isn't an attack at anyone, just me venting on how I feel, just like everyone else here.
the_mariska
Bakera wrote:
The only kids that should be insulted are the ones that actaully do beat people up and all that jazz. But I have straight edge friends who love Hardcore music and are the nicest people I know, even though they know I smoke and drink.


Haha, you must be very lucky. Most of the straight edges I know act a bit superior to others, and during half an hour of conversation they can insult everything about me - my religion, opinions, music, food preferances [2 moths ago I gave up vege, after 4,5 years of not eating meat]. Yeah, I know I'm generalising, I have some friends that are sxe and I feel good in their company, but generally those guys who act like they're somehow better, made me have enough of straight edges.

BTW. Wow, we've gone so far from the topic of music... Wink
Ducksteina
I also listen to 'kiddie metal' like Slipknot or KoRn, but does that make me a metal kiddie? I hear what sounds good to me. This does not include only Nu Metal, but also Death Metal, some Metalcore, Black Metal and especially Melodic Death Metal.
Just let the people hear what they want to hear... This whole discussion is stupid.
Cephalic_Carnage
I just say leave them alone, to every man their peice. But I won't deny that I dislike what they do. I have had people tell me "Slipknot is the heaviest metal band". But when I played Deicide in their ears, they shut up real fast. "WTF was that"?

but what I hate more then anyone are those Black Metal Elitists that think that they are so cool and "kvlt" because they listen to satanic music. I love Black metal myself, but I try to keep an open mind of what is out there.
Otherwise I just mainly stick to my precious death metal, Deathgrind, and Goregrind.
carcasskind
I think a lot of the "scene kiddies" exist due to, as others have inferred, the idea of non-conformism and image. What the hardcore crowd doesn't realise is that they are conforming anyway (Marilyn Manson fans...), and they don't realise that they aren't the first ones to listen to something brutal/satanic/insanely fast. The thing that really annoys me though, is when people try and objectify music, like art, music is a subjective form of expression - and I don't think it's fair to put down other peoples tastes because frankly, we aren't them. Others have mentioned black metal "inner circles" etc, and I agree that they are stupid. As I said before people who rate music according to their viewpoints and then force their views on others are unacceptable. However, personally I've never experienced arrogance from others due to music taste - except from those scene kiddie types (the one's who think Cradle of Filth is black metal... hint hint nudge nudge). I listen to tech/brutal death metal, namely Cryptopsy, Psycroptic, Anata, Nile, Aborted, Abysmal Torment and a bit of Deicide.
achene
I find the socalled metal-culture extremely annoying. Not because they actually cause me any bad, but they give the worst kind of image of metal-heads.
I might listen a lot to metal myself but you don't have to reflect your musical taste in your look.
There's a lot of things i dislike about them. First: I do not like when they thing they have to wear black clothes and get piercings all over their face. First of all it is pretty ugly (in my oppinion), but it also creates a lot of prejudice towards people who listen to metal and hard rock.
Second: Someone mentioned earlier that they all listened to metallica, slayer etc. I do not find that true. Most goth's listen to Slipknot, Korn, Trivium etc. (nu-metal and metalcore). And i find that nu-metal might be the worst kind of metal out there, but that is only my oppinion. But generally a lot of these "goths" don't know about anything else than that. Even though they don't know a lot about that either. Personally i like most kind of hard rock and metal (prog, power, NWOBHM etc..) i also like a lot of older rock'n roll and i enjoy classical music so it is not that i only listen to metallica myself.
TheMasterCheaif
Never seen anybody like that, but I agree most peaple think that heavy metal is bad.But i do not agree with that statement, I mean just the other day I was listining to some Disturbed, Metallica, Nirvana. and i song i like called 99 red balloons. Peaple need to stop trying to look the part and go rock out.
arkebuzer
Tulkamir wrote:
Not sure if there are any metal heads out there, but if there are I was wondering if any of you have noticed a surge of little metal wanabe kiddies of late? Checking out HMV the other day in the metal section there was a group of young teens discussing metal. It was almost disgusting to listen to as a metalhead because they were all decked out in their "hardcore" gear (meaning they looked like idiotic emo/circus rejects) and had no clue what they were talking about.

Personally this kind of thing annoys the hell out of me. I'm very much a metal head, and know that metal and it's culture is largely looked down upon for unfair reasons. Kids like that only make it worse by giving metal an image that is not true to what it really is.

So, does anyone else see more of those kinds of "hardcore" kids around these days, and if so what do you think?


People dress like they were hard core death metal fans, while they arenīt. And they say they like Dimmu Borgir when they secretly listen to britney when no one sees...
So what??? Seriously! Most kids are looking for an "Image", they want to be someone and all that... let them do it, who cares?
I listen to metal, but I dont have any "metal outfit" or such, but I dont get offended if someone has it or if someone talks about metal even though he/she has no clue what so ever what he/she is talking about.
Well, at least thatīs what I think about these "metal kiddies" Wink
love2infekt
I personally have seen those kinds of people who try being "posers" or "wannabes" but I really do not worry about it cause I see it as a phase for them and they usually just move on to the next fad or phase that comes along.
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