Imagine I make a batch of cupcakes and one of the cupcakes has a special ingredient. Gran Marnier for that special adult taste. I put all the cupcakes on a plate and put the plate on the table. I call the kids in for the party and I warn them that they can eat any of the cakes but not the special cake on top of which I have put a cherry so they know which one it is. I tell the kids to enjoy themselves and I leave.
Uncle Barry arrives and sees the special cake on the table. He asks why the cake hasn't been eaten. The kids tell him why. Uncle Barry doesn't think that is reasonable and encourages each of the kids to have a bite. I return, see what has happened to the cake. I cancel the party and send everyone outside to clean up the back yard until dinner which is brocolli and brussel sprouts. I'm so angry that there will never be any parties ever again and from now on the kids will have to go out into the yard and clean up after the dog before I will let them eat dinner. In addition even though he hasn't been born yet, the new baby brother due next month will also have to clean up the yard before meals as soon as he is old enough. Uncle Barry is never to visit ever again. I'll teach them not to disobey me. Am I a good father?
Ask yourself what your kids are learning from all this.
You are terrible father. And I see your analogy
| ludio_ wrote: |
Imagine I make a batch of cupcakes and one of the cupcakes has a special ingredient. Gran Marnier for that special adult taste. I put all the cupcakes on a plate and put the plate on the table. I call the kids in for the party and I warn them that they can eat any of the cakes but not the special cake on top of which I have put a cherry so they know which one it is. I tell the kids to enjoy themselves and I leave.
Uncle Barry arrives and sees the special cake on the table. He asks why the cake hasn't been eaten. The kids tell him why. Uncle Barry doesn't think that is reasonable and encourages each of the kids to have a bite. I return, see what has happened to the cake. I cancel the party and send everyone outside to clean up the back yard until dinner which is brocolli and brussel sprouts. I'm so angry that there will never be any parties ever again and from now on the kids will have to go out into the yard and clean up after the dog before I will let them eat dinner. In addition even though he hasn't been born yet, the new baby brother due next month will also have to clean up the yard before meals as soon as he is old enough. Uncle Barry is never to visit ever again. I'll teach them not to disobey me. Am I a good father? |
You're a bad father for punishing an unborn child. That's very bad. You'll make him into a bad person.
Here's what you do. Make the children apologise. And ALWAYS explain your reasons. Like 'don't eat this cake because...'.
Ask your children only to trust you and their mother deeply. No-one else. But don't over emphasise that or they will be unable to trust anyone.
may God bless you. | Rico wrote: |
| Ask yourself what your kids are learning from all this. |
I expect that the kids will learn not to ignore my directions and the next time I tell them to do something, they'll know there are consequences for not doing as they are told.
What should I do next? | loyal wrote: |
Here's what you do. Make the children apologise. And ALWAYS explain your reasons. Like 'don't eat this cake because...'.
Ask your children only to trust you and their mother deeply. No-one else. But don't over emphasise that or they will be unable to trust anyone.
may God bless you. |
These look like good ideas but explaining things to kids is a bit tricky. I have my reasons for making various decisions but the kids are too young to understand many of them. What should I do?i expect eventually your children will debate if you exist, some will blindly follow your cupcake rule, and others will simply make their own decision using logic and reason.
The kids are very young and don't know how to behave. They need supervision a lot but I'm very busy. I have a lot of responsibilities and I can't spend all my time supervising the kids. They didn't seem to learn much from the cup cake incident because they still don't do as I say when I'm away and I'm pretty sure uncle Barry has been visiting secretly and giving them more cupcakes. How can I make sure they know how to behave when I'm not around?
Ha-ha I see it know; you’re a clever bugger aren’t you. You had me going nicely, friggen good one man. I like it a lot. 
I do think you should add that there was one kid (the one who wasn’t born yet) who when he was old enough said that he would take all the blame for that incident and he would clean the yard by himself as well as the car and the kitchen and the front yard and the street and the city, the entire world in fact if you would only forgive his brothers and sisters and give them the freedom to play a little before dinner. | Rico wrote: |
| Ha-ha I see it know; you’re a clever bugger aren’t you. You had me going nicely, friggen good one man. I like it a lot. I do think you should add that there was one kid (the one who wasn’t born yet) who when he was old enough said that he would take all the blame for that incident and he would clean the yard by himself as well as the car and the kitchen and the front yard and the street and the city, the entire world in fact if you would only forgive his brothers and sisters and give them the freedom to play a little before dinner. |
You were slow on the uptake Rico, but you got there in the end. 
I too thought it very clever | ludio_ wrote: |
| The kids are very young and don't know how to behave. They need supervision a lot but I'm very busy. I have a lot of responsibilities and I can't spend all my time supervising the kids. They didn't seem to learn much from the cup cake incident because they still don't do as I say when I'm away and I'm pretty sure uncle Barry has been visiting secretly and giving them more cupcakes. How can I make sure they know how to behave when I'm not around? |
They're not keeping the yard very clean but still coming in for their meals. What to do now, father? Deny their meals and hose down the yard?You forgot to mention that the uncle gets his arms and legs chopped off and is forced to eat dust for the rest of time. Isn't that how it goes?
Actually I think that the story goes that not only did the kids eat the cupcakes, but they wouldn't fess up to it either, first the boy blames his sister for giving it to him and then she blames Uncle Barry but neither one admits it was thier fault or says they were sorry. So how does that figure in?
I thought maybe if I make some rules that the kids could follow, then they would know when they were doing the wrong thing and would understand what was going on when they were punished. Even better, if they simply obey the rules, there would be no need for punishment. The difficult thing is to come up with rules that are simple enough for the kids to understand. Rules about cupcakes are OK but they can't be very widely applied to everyday situations all the time. I need rules that are adaptable and can be used all the time. Any suggestions?
Simple solution. Don't put the cupcake with alcohol in it where the kids can get to it in the first place.
If you want kids to follow your rules, and they are too young to understand the reasons, don't set them up for failure.
And I get your analogy, very clever.
perhaps the whole thing never happened, and the so called story is an allegory for the atttitude of a vengeful god
what kind of pervert puts the "Cake" with the other cakes anyway
Don't forget about the time father came home to find that a large group of the kids were in the kitchen. They had eaten all the sweets and were throwing great handfulls of flour at one another, making a huge mess. All but two of them, who were sitting quietly in the corner doing their homework.
Father then asked the two who were being good to leave the kitchen, then, without another word to the other kids, he locked the doors and just torched the kitchen. That'll teach them.
Of course, it was unfortunate that the girl who was being good looked back at the burning kitchen and had to be turned to salt.
Or there was the time before that when he decided to start over and so he drowned all the kids in the bathtub. Except for his favorite.
OK, now we get to the part where I forget about cupcakes and ask any believers out there to explain, if they can, why any real god who is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent would set us up for failure and then punish us for doing so. What would be the point?
My guess is that God had nothing to do with this but that whoever wrote the story was trying to teach us something, but what?
By reading the scriptures you might learn something about the people who wrote them and what they thought about how the world came to be the way it is. Also we might learn some good ideas about how to live together. If they had limited their terms of reference thusly and not claimed divine inspiration or authority perhaps their work would be more widely read and respected.
I think the thing that really gets me going is the notion of eternal damnation in hell. That is a threat so frightening and horrifying; but we tell it to children! We tell them, here are the rules, if you break them you will suffer unbearable torment throughout eternity. Who wouldn't be scared by that? But we are still set up to fail against impossible standards and told that the only way to avoid punishment is to be forgiven. Would an all powerful god really treat us mere humans like this?
I don't think so, but a person writing a set of rules might use the threat to make sure the rules were followed and to set himself up as mediator.
Am I going to hell?
Last edited by ludio_ on Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total
As a none christian, I would say you are spot on.
| ludio_ wrote: |
OK, now we get to the part where I forget about cupcakes and ask any believers out there to explain, if they can, why any real god who is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent would set us up for failure and then punish us for doing so. What would be the point?
My guess is that God had nothing to do with this but that whoever wrote the story was trying to teach us something, but what?
By reading the scriptures you might learn something about the people who wrote them and what they thought about how the world came to be the way it is. Also we might learn some good ideas about how to live together. If they had limited their terms of reference thusly and not claimed divine inspiration or authority perhaps their work would be more widely read and respected.
I think the thing that really gets me going is the notion of eternal damnation in hell. That is a threat so frightening and horrifying; but we tell it to children! We tell them, here are the rules, if you break them you will suffer unbearable torment throughout eternity. Who wouldn't be scared by that? But we are still set up to fail against impossible standards and told that the only way to avoid punishment is to be forgiven. Would an all powerful god really treat us mere humans like this?
I don't think so, but a person writing a set of rules might use the threat to make sure the rules were followed and to set himself up as mediator.
Am I going to hell? |
You go where you choose to goIt's the uncles fault for disbelieving the children who had specific orders from their parents not to eat the cup cake. It was a simple and just order. But because Uncle's ignorance and the childrens lack of will to defent that order, they must be punished as well.
-MAKING A BRIDGE-
As for the child enutero, it will now be born into a world that contains both the knowlege of good and evil. Beings that it now has a choice, it must choose to pay for it's forefather's sins, ask for forgiveness and be admonished to recieve eternal life. Or it can choose the path of eternal damnation...
It's the uncles fault for disbelieving the children who had specific orders from their parents not to eat the cup cake. It was a simple and just order. But because Uncle's ignorance and the childrens lack of will to defent that order, they must be punished as well.
-MAKING A BRIDGE-
As for the child enutero, it will now be born into a world that contains both the knowlege of good and evil. Beings that it now has a choice, it must choose to pay for it's forefather's sins, ask for forgiveness and be admonished to recieve eternal life. Or it can choose the path of eternal damnation...
| Quote: |
As for the child enutero, it will now be born into a world that contains both the knowlege of good and evil. Beings that it now has a choice, it must choose to pay for it's forefather's sins, ask for forgiveness and be admonished to recieve eternal life. Or it can choose the path of eternal damnation
|
What if the child does not agree with having to pay for the forefathers sins? The mistake was the forefathers, not theirs. The forefathers would surely have dealt with this themselves after they passed from this realm into the next.
