Pope speaks out on Jihad

S3nd K3ys

Pope Benedict XVI gave an address recently:

loyal

peace be upon you.

read this: http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-09/14/04.shtml

That pope is an ignorant person.. He is ignorant because he thinks jihad means holy war.

S3nd K3ys

ocalhoun

Soulfire

Lennon

Can someone please clarify this.

Is the Holy Qur'an meant to be absolute in taking it's message literally when it claims jihad on pagans, jews, christians, hindus' etc, or is jihad a supernatural personal theme, where you have to be strong in yourself with regard to pagans, jews, christians, hindu's etc.

Soulfire

aceflooder

loyal

loyal

Rico

You guys are arguing semantics here, nice but the point is that it seems were ever there is conflict on the globe somewhere it has to do with Muslim issues. This is only an observation, you Catholics and Muslims play nicely now.

loyal

achowles

The man's an idiot. They only elected him because they thought they needed a stopgap until they had a more suitable candidate. Now instead they have someone who's doing more harm than good at a time when we really can't afford that kind of blundering ignorance.

I think that he says far more about Catholicism than Islam. Islam is becoming more divided. There is much more of a clear line between the extremists and moderates and we should be using this to separate the two, by helping the moderates and removing the extremists.

Instead we've got people like him and Bush that can't tell the damn difference and are only making things worse.

At the end of the day, it's all too easy to use a few choice Bible quotes to shoot his speech down in flames.

darvit

Damn it, God and Allah are one and the same person; it just so happened that society and religion made us call Him [or Her, who knows] different names!

As for the current Pope, I do not know him enough to judge him. Not only the current Pope and Christianity is at error with defining such terms here, it's media, and society and cross-cultural gaps. It's a comples problem, so I think fighting about it is pointless. Why not work together to educate each other? Let's not talk of beheadings or idiotic leaders here. We've had enough of their presence in real life.

MadeinIndia

Islam means Submission to God. It broadly means that humans are created only to worship god and totally submit to him, they don't have a free will, they SHOULD NOT have a thinking mind and structure their entire life according to a book purportedly containing rules of the god.

A religion which discourages a free thought and reason, Islam, over the period of centuries has proved again and again that it does not think logic. Infact "thinking" in Islam is strictly prohbited as if it's not in the book, then it's not to be followed!

Many liberal muslims keep saying that some people are misintrepreting Koran in a wrong way. A book which actually leaves space to misintrepret it's messages, imagine it's authenticity. Such a powerful book should not have left anything to be misintrepreted.

All over the globe, Muslims are rigid in their thinking, hateful of other religions and not faithful to the country where they live. Take India for example. After Independence from British, Muslims demanded and got a seperate country called Pakistan for themselves. The Biggest mistake India has done is to say that even Muslims are welcome to stay in the new partitioned India along with Hindus.

In Pakistan, Hindu's were literally wiped out. Just "google" on Hindus conditions in Pakistan. Whereas in India, Muslims were granted every concievable opportunity and rights to prosper. They were given reservations in educational institutes. They had the freedom to follow their own civil law. (In Pakistan, Hindus, whatever small force remaining have to follow Islamic law)

Muslims were given equal opportunities in Business and Politics. A muslim has become the PRESIDENT of India!

But the strangest of things, Muslims in India recently refused to sing the National Song of India! Even though the stanzas that are in use of the song no way clashes with their beliefs.

I myself, have been a witness to one incident which refuses to go away from memory. When I was a child, After Pakistan won a cricket match against India, the muslims in my neighborhood took out a celebratory procession, dancing and singing praises to Pakistan.

Muslims in your country is like a Snake in your bed. You won't know when it will bite you.

Whether the so called Liberals keep harping about the peaceful nature and secularity by pointing you to some specific messages of Koran, it is undisputable that the whole world today is suffering due to Islam's intolerance towards other religions and other socities. They obviously don't believe in the saying "Live and Let Live"

The Czar

The Czar

The pope before Benedict was better, IS better ... madeinindia ... Thats the Pakistanis, doesn't apply to all Muslims ... Like in my country everythings fair ... I hope ... Laughing

. Yeah, India, Pakistan ... A whole lots of friction.

loyal

aceflooder

tingkagol

i think the existence of the vatican is stupid and unnecessary.

Soulfire

nam_siddharth

loyal

nam_siddharth

MadeinIndia

Muslims are like Snakes, they bite the hand that feeds them. The sooner the world recognizes this, the better for the progress of humanity.

Muslims will keep projecting that they are the oppressed and they are just fighting against US/Israel Injustice! I feel that they just need a reason to keep fighting. They fight everywhere and anywhere. They are mad and evil.

People in India did not convert to Islam by their own will. They were converted by force and sword.

As one fool here mentioned that Muslims wanted a different country due to large number of temples in India, why the hell did a majority of them still remain in India? Why don't they leave? Why don't they go to Pakistan and let us Indians live in peace? You got your own country so JUST leave!

You got a problem with every country you live in. You got a problem with the US, you got a problem with India, you got a problem with France, you got a problem with the UK! Damn it! Looks like you guys were created by satan to keep this world fighting all the time!

They have a problem with a cartoon, they have a problem with a text book in India containing their god's image, they are intolerent if someone comments about their religion. They issue death threats to Salman Rushdie for writing what he feels like. If this is not a violent and evil religion, then what is?

schnitzi

I wish there was some sort of divine Thunderdome we could lock the extremists from both sides into and let them fight this out so innocent people would not be affected.

loyal

S3nd K3ys

MadeinIndia

Loyal, looks like you are really a moron. Hardly anyone was converted by sword? Look at your religion's history! I detest scum like you! If you say Islam is growing, maybe because they reproduce like rats. Their aim is simple, give birth to so many muslims, that the earth is infested by them!

I never said India and Pakistan should be one! Where did I say that? Moron read my postings properly...Ofcourse I will insult a fool! A fool who defends a religion that is gruesome, violent and unforgiving!

Do you guys know that if any Muslim leaves Islam, he will be punished? See how intolerant this religion is.

AND YOU DOUBLE EFFING STANDARD GUYS! YOU SAY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FRANCE BECAUSE OF HIJABS...IT IS THEIR COUNTRY, THEY HAVE A COMMON LAW! IF YOU WANT TO PRACTICE RELIGION, DO IT IN YOUR COUNTRY!

IF A FRENCH GIRL LIVING IN SAUDI SAYS THAT SHE WANTS TO WEAR A SHORT SKIRT TO SCHOOL AS HER CULTURE PERMITS IT...WILL YOUR MORON MUSLIMS PERMIT IT? THEY WILL KILL THAT GIRL IMMEDIATELY!

NOW MORON, LETS DISCUSS ABOUT THE CARTOONS. IF YOUR RELIGION IS REALLY PEACEFUL, IF SOMEONE REALLY DID DRAW A CARTOON, A PEACEFUL RELIGION WILL IGNORE, KNOWING THAT THE PERSON WHO HAS SINNED WILL GO TO HELL AND JUST FORGET THE WHOLE THING! A VIOLENT AND EVIL RELIGION WILL CREATE RIOTS AND KILL PEOPLE!

THERE WERE MANY INSTANCES OF HINDU GODS BEING PRINTED ON SHOES AND CARPETS ETC IN WESTERN COUNTRIES BUT DID YOU HEAR ANY HINDU RIOT OR KILL OVER THIS? WE PROTESTED PEACEFULLY AND GOT IT WITHDRAWN, TELLING THE COMPANY MAKING THOSE THINGS THAT SUCH THINGS HURT OUR SENTIMENTS AND THEY UNDERSTOOD AND IMMEDIATELY WITHDREW THE PRODUCTS! THIS IS CALLED PEACEFUL RELIGION YOU DIRTY EVIL MORONS!

COMING TO SALMAN RUSHDIE..SO YOUR RELIGION SAYS KILL A PERSON WHO TALKS BAD ABOUT ISLAM EH! HOW INTOLERANT ANYONE CAN BE? IS ISLAM SO WEAK THAT THEY GET WORRIED ABOUT ANYONE'S WORDS?

BASICALLY IN A NUTSHELL...LETS NOT WASTE OUR TIME ARGUING WITH THIS FOOL "LOYAL". EVERYONE KNOWS ISLAM IS EVIL. EVERYONE KNOWS THEY NEED A REASON TO CREATE TERROR AND VIOLENCE. A RELIGION WHERE THEY OPPRESS WOMEN AND PUBLICLY CLAIM THAT ISLAM GIVES EQUAL RIGHTS TO WOMEN! WHAT AS**OLES MAN!

A WOMAN WHO IS RAPED SHOULD PROVIDE FOUR MALE WITNESSES IN THE COURT TO PROVE THAT SHE IS RAPED!

A MAN CAN MARRY FOUR TIMES! HE CAN FK AROUND ANYWHERE...BUT IF A WOMAN IS SEEN ON THE ROADS WITH A NON-RELATIVE, SHE IS KILLED!

A MAN CAN DIVORCE A WOMAN BY SAYING TALAQ FOUR TIMES! THATS IT! NO QUESTIONS ASKED! JUST SAY THE MAGIC WORD AND THE MARRIAGE IS OUT! WHAT A FOOLISH AND DIRTY RELIGION IS THIS?

BUDDIES...UNDERSTAND THE THREAT BY THIS SATANIC RELIGION. UNDER THE GUISE OF PEACE, THEY ARE BRAINWASHING EVERYONE, TRYING TO CREATE AN EVIL RACE ON THE EARTH. UNDERSTAND THE DANGER.

loyal

[quote="S3nd K3ys"]

ocalhoun

S3nd K3ys

S3nd K3ys

Gazans warn pope to accept Islam

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913651799&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

S3nd K3ys · Tuesday , September 19, 2006

Lennon

The reduction of Jihad terrorists from society involves a cultural war, not military. All military strikes so far have only provoked the anger and hatred against the U.S. The new philosophy on war is that war will not achieve objective in foreign societies any longer, as it will not tame the violent spirit. Instead military war is being used in modern societies as a deterrant, distraction or policing behind a more powerful strategy, usually cultural war. For example, the chinese military only suppresses and polices the citizens with the emphasis on cultural aspects, including praise of the communist system etc. Increasing the enemy moral towards your benefit works best.

So in that saying, the Pope is calling for a modernisation of it's traditional approach of "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" and "defend Allah's name at all costs". He want's open discussion on the matter, which is really an open mind of Islam instead of a closed-minded, arrogant religion which deems itself completely righteousness and no-one else is. He calls for a change of heart in Islam, to open out to the rest of the world. This will allow cultural change once the Islamic states become open minded.

doomz

livilou

Do you not realize that we want to open dialogue? That is what the Pope was trying to say. Some Muslims here seem to understand that, why can't they over there? In order to have dialogue, a person has to be open-minded. Most of the ones I've seen don't seem to be that way. (Not all, but most).

I understand that we all worship the same God. So we do it differently, big deal!

Why get offended over ignorance? That's all those cartoons are. Ignorance of any religion isn't new. When I see it over Christianity, I pray for that person. I pray that one day they might understand, but that's not my decision on weither or not they do. Instead of listening to the whole speech and trying to find out what was meant by it, people take bits and pieces and get offended over that part.

adredwood

S3nd k3ys, im wondering if you could give me a straight answer as to what exactly you hope to achieve? Ive read a fair few of your posts, verging from casual bigotry to vicious racism, which you coat in a thin veneer of subjective opinion dressed up as fact -none of it makes sense to me. Your rhetorict seems to be one a personal hatred towards an entire race of people - do you consider youself a racist? Perhaps your interest in semantics will extend this far.

Racist:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Just what did the Arab world do to you? Do i need to provide the meaning of hypocrisy as well? The western world, in particular the US and UK, have been involved in the violent suppression of freedom for as long as anyone can remember, overthrowing democratic governments in favour of dictatorships that eradicate popular social reform, as with the CIA's overthrow of Mossadegh in 1953 Iran. The current hatred of Western foreign policy (not the West as you believe) in the Muslim world has been fomented by decades of support for Israel, the placing of military bases on Muslim holy land and attacks made on Iraqi people (not Saddam).

All of these have been stated and restated by ordinary Muslims and extremists as the reason for both hatred of US policy and attacks made against them (see above link.)

Im also curious how you would justify your statement that the world's Muslim population stands idly by while atrocities are committed in their name. In fact the opposite is true, as you would find if you talked to a representative number of Muslims, and your statement that they have not spoken out publicly against attacks is an outright fallacy:

Muslim Condemnations of 9/11

Scholars object to violence

Qaradawi Condemns Violent Cartoon Protests

What you mistake for global absence is merely absence in your sphere of media, i would recommend this site for anyone looking for open discussion of these issues.

Besides, by this logic the citizens of the West are directly complicit with attacks made on Iran, Vietnam, Cambodia, Greece, Iraq.... - which is just not the case. In reality, the mainstream media presents just as biased a perspective on international conflict as on Muslim reactions to terrorism, obscuring a fact here, leaving one out there...

So back to my original question, what do you hope to achieve by spreading hateful, baseless accusations that apply to only a tiny minority of a group? Are Christians a homogenous group, one statement fits all? Are Jews? Sihks? Buddhists? Of course you can come up with examples of evil Muslims, the same as any fool with web browser can find fundamentalist Christian sects, Buddhist who kill or Jews that bulldoze villages of innocent people, but that doesnt make their entire religion evil now, does it?

Look, perhaps we can come to some kind of arrangement here. You agree to give up any pretence of rationality or logic in your posts and revert to the kind of name-calling knee-jerk reactionary bully you plainly aspire to be, and the rest of the world will leave you to your own desires. It like the media - in the UK we have The Sun, which is openly racist and ignorant, and The Daily Mail, which hides its bigotry behind a sheen of middle-class respectability. I dont know in the US, perhaps the National Enquirer and the Washington Post? Either way, when you dress up lies as truth and attempt to convince people you are touting objective opinion, sooner or later people will object. Im objecting. So are many other people from a look at your postings.

Peace be upon you my friend.

Andy

Jinx

S3nd K3ys

S3nd K3ys

adredwood

S3nd k3ys - So youd like to hear Muslims speak out against the atrocities that occur "in their name"...but youre not willing to accept the links i gave you as valid. Listen to this carefully - a majority of Muslims condemn the violence carried out in their name (see this link) but are not given a platform with which to voice their indignation. The media will always be more interested in Muslim firebombings, raping, killing and violence than they will in Muslims urging non-violence and peace. There is just no contest here. Add this the fact that (particularly in the US), homogenizing perceptions of the Muslim population as radical serves the interest of the wealthy elite and their foreign policy objectives (control of oil wealth in the middle-east being key). If the media is constantly telling us how evil the Muslims of the world are, there will be less resitance (they hope) to warmongering.
Anid it's working.

Even the right-wing Washington Post seems to have its finger somewhere near the pulse on this issue:

"Conservative and liberal experts said Americans' attitudes about Islam are fueled in part by political statements and media reports that focus almost solely on the actions of Muslim extremists" (ibid.)

Exactly what youre alluding to with the "i know why they're here" stuff im not sure, ditto, your friend shot in the back. As for the plethora of links on radicalism, i think you can refer back to my previous post - anyone can find examples of violence in the media from any radical group, and this fact cannot be overcome by the quantity of violence you point to. You write that:

"I want action. I want peaceful Islamics to defend their religion against the terrorists with the same vigilance (but less flames, destruction and death) as they have when protesting cartoons!"

So do you accept that Muslims do not support the violence? And is this really what you want? Because this is not backed up by, well, any of your posts, which are generally as vitriolic as the Cliff May article you quote so admiringly. Posts such as

"Last I remembered, I'm not the one strapping bombs to my children in the hopes of killing a couple of infidels. I value life."

equate normal Muslims with the extremists in a deeply offensive way. If you really wish for Muslims to be seen to oppose violence then perhaps you should be the one finding quotes from those condemning the violence instead of fuelling hatred with misprepresentation. I see a future calling for you...

Andy

S3nd K3ys