The rise of Islam
During the last 20 years, the number of Muslims in the world has been increasing steadily. Statistics for the year 1973 indicate that the world population of Muslims was 500 million; now, it has reached 1.5 billion. Today, every fourth person is a Muslim. It is probable that the Muslim population will continue to increase and that Islam will become the world's largest religion. This site presents and evaluates these important developments.
JackIts not only quite possible but looks like its going to happen. Much to the dismay of Christan's.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Its not only quite possible but looks like its going to happen. Much to the dismay of Christan's. |
So what? Do you think that the rise of islam can represent a threat for the world or for democracy ? | sarapicoazul wrote: |
| The Conspirator wrote: | | Its not only quite possible but looks like its going to happen. Much to the dismay of Christan's. |
So what? Do you think that the rise of islam can represent a threat for the world or for democracy ? |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| 2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Very intelligent answer. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Wrong.
Muslims have always denounced evil actions such as 9/11. If you claim we did not denounce it then you are very ignorant. Muslims HEARD it being denounced in their own mosques and denounce it themselves and i read an article every few weeks condeming some sort of evil action from any Muslim website.
It's also ironic how you think Muslims are violent yet say we should stand up for ourselves and declare ourselves not violent.
By the way, the Qur'an does not allow killing except in war and self-defence:
Glorious Qur'an [4:29]: O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.
Thus 4:29 says no sucide bombing.
Glorious Qur'an [4:89]: They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.
Thus 4:89 gives permission to kill in war the enemies.
Glorious Qur'an [17:33]: You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice (e.g. self-defence). If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped.
Thus 17:33 declares life sacred and no-one shall be killed (except in the course of justice).
May God bless you. | loyal wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Wrong.
Muslims have always denounced evil actions such as 9/11. |
Really? I haven't heard of that. Perhaps you could enlighten me with facts? You know, a link or something the rest of us non-Islamics can see? Because we haven't seen it.You're missing a very fundamental point here. But it's probably no use trying to explain it cos it just falls on deaf years. The West has been programmed for so long to believe that Islam is a backward, violent religion that anything contrary seems impossible. But I'll say it anyway, hoping someone might benefit.
Islam is a peaceful religion. The millitants who fight against your so called 'infedals' today are not fighting for their religion. They are fighting for their country and freedom and against policies that are harmful to them and their countries.
When America was attacked, supposedly by Al-Gaeda on 9/11, America has gone on a "War on Terror", claiming to be fightng against all groups who are a threat to her National Security.
The difference is that when the wars and war crimes of the US and it's allies are debated, the question of religion is never an issue. But whenever an Arabian nation is concerned the media makes it a point that terms like Islamists, fundamentalists, extremists are told again and again. These labels have been sold for so long and so often that people have forgotten what they actually mean and it's become synonimous with Islam.
The difference is that US and it's allies have this right to fight against threats to their National Security but the countries they attack are not given that right. Every country has a right to fight to defend itself. The truth is that America does not have grounds to attack them in the first place.
If you do a research on Bin Laden, you would see that even the American CIA believes he is not fighting for Islam.
If you have read recent news, you would know that a US Congressional comission has found no link between President Saddam Hussain and Al-Gaeda. This was the excuse America gave for attacking Iraq in the first place. With that claim, they attacked and brought down a Nations government with no respect for International laws. But ofcourse America is not new to it.
Now if we bring to mind or care to mention that America is a Christian nation, you would see what kind of backward people they are, going around killing people from countries far away without proper justification.
If you care to research on the September 911 Truth movemeent, you might ask yourself what kind of barbarous people would kill thousands of their own people for economic and political gains.
This is also not new to Christians. I have had people argue that the Crusades were not religious but if the Pope gave them sanction, why should it not be religious?
| Quote: |
| During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships, killing 140 Christians in order to kill ten times as many Muslims. |
[Source]
And here's an interesting little fact:
| Quote: |
| Hezbollah suicide bombers in the period 1982-1986 were 71% Christian, 21% Communist/Socialist, 8% Islamist (204-07). |
[Source]
Now if we want to generalise that some religion or the other is backward and barbaric, which religion do we target?
So for people who bother to actually think for themselves rather than have a world view controlled by the media that says one day that US should back Afghanistan against Russia and then bomb them the next.
For people who refuse to be misguided by the same America that gave Chemical weapons capability to Irag in the first place, the America that has still not signed the UN treaty against using Incidiary weapons while most of the rest of the world has.
For people who listen to the Media controlled by Jews who themselves have not shown any respect for UN resolutions, breaking 60 of them even at this moment and people who don't bother to search for the real truth.
For these people, the truth is just a book store away. And since so many people are fed-up of being treated like zombies who are expected to believe whatever they are told, and have come to realise that they themsleves are smart intelligent people, they have finally started to break free of this programming and started to learn the real truth about Islam. And that is why Islam is on a rise.
May God guide us all to the true path. | jack_sanders wrote: |
The rise of Islam
During the last 20 years, the number of Muslims in the world has been increasing steadily. Statistics for the year 1973 indicate that the world population of Muslims was 500 million; now, it has reached 1.5 billion. Today, every fourth person is a Muslim. It is probable that the Muslim population will continue to increase and that Islam will become the world's largest religion. This site presents and evaluates these important developments.
Jack |
Peace be upon you.
Thank you for the site, mate. I will look at it. By the way, if you want statistics, here:
-209,020,000, (1935), World Almanac and Book of Facts
-700,000,000, (1983), Readers Digest Almanac and Yearbook
-0.951 billion, (1993), The Cambridge Factfinder
-0.700 billion or more, (1993), Barnes & Noble Encyclopedia
-0.817 billion, (1996), The Universal Almanac
-1,126,325,000, (1996), 1997 Britannica Book of the Year.
-1.100 billion, (1997), The World Almanac*
-1.200 billion, (1999), CAIR (Council on American-Islamic relations)
-1,188,242,789, (2000), David A. Barrett, World Christian Encyclopedia,
2001, p 13-15 (according to bible.ca)
-1,400,000,000, (2006) 1.4 Billion Muslims, Average made by me between
Christians claiming 1.3 and Muslims claiming 1.5
*note: these figures are randomly taken from different sources. At no point did Islam start loosing Muslims more than it gained. It's a difference of statistics. If i claim 1.3 Muslims in the world and you claim 1.2 next year, it does not mean they decreased.
The word population growth per year: 1.14% (2000) (figure obtained from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_population)
The Muslim population growth per year: 2.96%** (figures 2000 and 2006 used to find population growth.)
**Note: 9/11 happened in 2001, so a 2002 statistic is needed for a more accurate percentage. 9/11 may have increased (possibly from amount of attention Islam recieved then) or decreased (possibly from people hating Islam by connecting it with terriosm) the percentage growth rate.
May God bless you.
Last edited by loyal on Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total | jipmerite wrote: |
| You're missing a very fundamental point here. But it's probably no use trying to explain it cos it just falls on deaf years. The West has been programmed for so long to believe that Islam is |
The West did not know what "Islam" was until 5 years ago. 
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Really? I haven't heard of that. Perhaps you could enlighten me with facts? You know, a link or something the rest of us non-Islamics can see? Because we haven't seen it. |
I do not want to waste time doing something, anyone could do with GOOGLE.
But look at these websites which i quickly got:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1152453459678&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
this hyperlink talks about no compulsion in Islam (i.e. no spread by the sword )
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015684&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
it waffles a bit but mentions that terror is not a part of Islam and mosques condemed 9/11 or whatever it said.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html
many links and articles. | loyal wrote: |
I do not want to waste time doing something,
|
Thanks for the links, I've seen a few like them. But I think you and the other muslims are too lazy to proclaim they're not not supportive of OBL or other terrorist groups.
What you linked is not main stream media. What I'm asking is where is the PUBLIC outcry? IMNSHO, if a group of as few as a hundred muslims went out in 5 large US cities and notified the press, they'd show up and they'd get air time. But it's NOT HAPPENING.
Instead what we're seeing is things like small vocal groups IN FAVOR of OBL making the news.
Why are you not willing to seperate yourselves? It really won't be that hard, and it will do you a lot of good, (if you do, in fact, not support terrorism) | loyal wrote: |
Muslims have always denounced evil actions such as 9/11. If you claim we did not denounce it then you are very ignorant. Muslims HEARD it being denounced in their own mosques and denounce it themselves and i read an article every few weeks condeming some sort of evil action from any Muslim website.
It's also ironic how you think Muslims are violent yet say we should stand up for ourselves and declare ourselves not violent.
By the way, the Qur'an does not allow killing except in war and self-defence: |
But the quotes, you provided proves the opposite, what you said.
| Quote: |
| Glorious Qur'an [4:29]: O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you. |
The above quote is stopping muslims to kill each other, ie. other muslims. It is not saying anything about killing or not killing non-muslims.
| Quote: |
| Glorious Qur'an [4:89]: They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies. |
The above quote is disallowing muslims to make nonmuslim friends. It is allowing muslims to kill nonmuslims in war. But it is never saying that muslims should not kill nonmuslims during non-war period.
| Quote: |
| Glorious Qur'an [17:33]: You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped. |
The above quote depends on, what is justice for Islam. Is it unjustice to kill nonmuslims for muslims? At least, it is not unjustice to kill nonmuslims in Islamic rule.
| Quote: |
| Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. |
| Quote: |
| In states ruled by Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية) is a per capita tax imposed on non-Muslim adult males, known as dhimmis. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JizyaOne thing that concerns me about the who religious growth thing is the importance and weight that is placed on this concept of my God vs. your God(or discipline of worship of said God(s)) as well as the importance of growth in numbers of followers.
Why is it that the people of the world seemingly have this innate drive/desire to focus on the differences to a degree that human cooperation moves to the back burner? Instead of uniting on the 90%+ similarity we focus on the <10% difference to segregate. I wish that I read more articles discussing the millions of humans worldwide who have become a teacher, doctor or scientist or the percentages surrounding increased eradication of illness rather than the current barrage of countless zealot converts of Christianity and Islam.
Now before bashing, I am not saying that religion is bad or that all Christians and Muslims are zealots hell-bent on disruption of cooperation; that would be narrow-minded and ignorant. What I am saying is that there is too much energy spent on specific differences and that often times, as a result of these religions and their followers, a great deal of resource is wasted and many, more important, issues are left unaddressed.
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
But the quotes, you provided proves the opposite, what you said.
|
No they do not.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Glorious Qur'an [4:29]: O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you. |
The above quote is stopping muslims to kill each other, ie. other muslims. It is not saying anything about killing or not killing non-muslims.
|
It's not supposed to say anything about killing other people because it is about killing yourself. I thought it was pretty obvious when i highlighted it in bold. Plus it does not say here 'do not kill Muslims'. It just says 'you shall not kill yourselves'. This means sucide bombing is forbidden in Islam.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Glorious Qur'an [4:89]: They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies. |
The above quote is disallowing muslims to make nonmuslim friends. It is allowing muslims to kill nonmuslims in war. But it is never saying that muslims should not kill nonmuslims during non-war period.
|
Wrong. It does not say you are not allowed to make non-Muslim friends. It says you are not allowed to take hypocritical Muslims in war as friends or allies.
That's very specific. Only in war, do not take hypocritical Muslims as friends or allies.
It allows Muslims to kill non-Muslims yes, but this is in WAR. Didn't you read the next verse i quoted which is 17:33? "you shall not kill any person...except in the course of justice".
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Glorious Qur'an [17:33]: You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped. |
The above quote depends on, what is justice for Islam. Is it unjustice to kill nonmuslims for muslims? At least, it is not unjustice to kill nonmuslims in Islamic rule.
|
Justice is easy to understand. Justice is charity, helping others, and so on. In this context, it says in the course of justice. The word justice means roughly 'to act or do the right thing' (from my head). It is not justice to kill a child, therefore it's not justful. Since it is forbidden to kill anyone except for two reasons in the Qur'an, we can assume the Qur'an means those two things. Self-defence is the first one. That is justful, so the word 'justice' fits it. War is the second one. The Islamic rules and strict in the war rules, making sure peace is the highest aim. This is also justful.
So in summary to this, justice is self-defence or war. This means no Muslim can kill any non-Muslim except in self-defence or war.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. |
| Quote: | | In states ruled by Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية) is a per capita tax imposed on non-Muslim adult males, known as dhimmis. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya |
[/quote]
It's not imposed. It's a choice. You either don't get protection of the state, have to join the army, and loads of other bad stuff, or you pay a tax to the goverment. Muslims have a similar thing, which is not really a tax, but still must be payed (to charity not goverment). It's called Zakat. Both Muslims and non-Muslims pay something. The Jews and Christians lived peacefully under the Islamic empire for centuries while paying Jizyah.
Also 9:29 is a war verse.
So what i said was right: sucide bombing is forbidden, killing anyone except in self-defence or war is forbidden.
May God bless you. | loyal wrote: |
Also 9:29 is a war verse.
So what i said was right: sucide bombing is forbidden, killing anyone except in self-defence or war is forbidden.
|
So when Bin Laden declared Islam was at war with Western Civilization, all bets are off. 
Am I going to have to grow a beard? And why is that?
| Rico wrote: |
| Am I going to have to grow a beard? And why is that? |
Isn't it required as part of Sharia Law? 
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Thanks for the links, I've seen a few like them.
|
It seems you have contradicted yourself:
I said: "Muslims have always denounced evil actions such as 9/11."
You said: "Really? I haven't heard of that. Perhaps you could enlighten me with facts? You know, a link or something the rest of us non-Islamics can see? Because we haven't seen it."
But now you claim you have not seen it!
| Quote: |
But I think you and the other muslims are too lazy to proclaim they're not not supportive of OBL or other terrorist groups.
|
That's just your opinions. Muslims are doing many things such as Islamic awarness weeks, new websites talking about Islam, and denouncing terroism. By the way, mosques often denounce terriosts.
| Quote: |
What you linked is not main stream media. What I'm asking is where is the PUBLIC outcry? IMNSHO, if a group of as few as a hundred muslims went out in 5 large US cities and notified the press, they'd show up and they'd get air time. But it's NOT HAPPENING.
|
Well you'll find it in magazines, and newspapers but this is the west. There will be very few Islamic magazines here. Also, i don't care about the media. I'm not that sort of guy who likes the media. So if you want media quotes, ask another Muslim.
| Quote: |
Instead what we're seeing is things like small vocal groups IN FAVOR of OBL making the news.
Why are you not willing to seperate yourselves? It really won't be that hard, and it will do you a lot of good, (if you do, in fact, not support terrorism) |
The media portrays what it wants often just to sell money. It's partly the medias fault 'Islam' and 'terriost' are in the same sentence often.
Could you please explain your second paragraph.
May God bless you. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
So when Bin Laden declared Islam was at war with Western Civilization, all bets are off. |
Bin laden is a hypocrite plus he's not allowed to declare war. It has to be the state, with scholars backing them up. Bin laden is not a state and is not a scholar. | Rico wrote: |
| Am I going to have to grow a beard? And why is that? |
Muslims recommend growing beards, but you can shave your hair off if you want. | loyal wrote: |
It seems you have contradicted yourself:
|
No. You just don't realize that when I say "I hadn't heard of that", I meant on the news.
That's my point entirely. I realize there are a few that do. But very few, and rarely publically. | loyal wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
So when Bin Laden declared Islam was at war with Western Civilization, all bets are off. |
Bin laden is a hypocrite plus he's not allowed to declare war. It has to be the state, with scholars backing them up. Bin laden is not a state and is not a scholar. |
Then why are there tens of thousands of Islamics at war with US?? I guess what he says really doesn't matter, does it? (please note sarcasm)The numbers of Muslim is growing and will keep on growing. That should not be a concern. The concern is how many of them subscribe to extremist view and how many of them becomes understanding, peaceful and moderate thinking.
In an Islamic country it is easy to convert to Islam. But it would be hell for a muslim even to consider converting to other religion. Plus the fact that religious education often starts early vs secular education in the west. Normally a muslim would be better grounded in their religion.
All religion claims themselves to be peace loving. I haven't heard of one yet that openly declares that they are blood thirsty, unfair and violent. Can't get converts that way.
I suppose the test is in how the people that profess a religion behaves. Action and words may not tally. And action speaks louder than words. The religion may not be at fault, but if time after time the actions of the followers contradict the good religion's word, then the perception of the masses cannot be blamed.
One may also argue that violence is only an act of a small group. But bearing in mind that the act of this minority gains higher publicity which equals advertisement. Then the perception of the masses could not be blamed. That is the power of advertising | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
No. You just don't realize that when I say "I hadn't heard of that", I meant on the news.
|
That's playing with your words.
| Quote: |
That's my point entirely. I realize there are a few that do. But very few, and rarely publically.
|
The media can't be trusted. Besides, when was the last time you saw an Islamic media program not a western one? Probaly never. So no wonder you have not heard an Islamic news program on telly declaring it wrong. Anyway, it does not matter what Muslims says really. It matters what the Qur'an says. If Christians kill, it does not make Christianity a bloodthirsty religion. Same with Islam.
| Quote: |
Then why are there tens of thousands of Islamics at war with US?? Rolling Eyes I guess what he says really doesn't matter, does it? (please note sarcasm)
|
jipmerite told you that if you did research even the american CIA believes he is not fighting for Islam.
Besides, there's no tens of thousands. It's a couple of hundred.
Anyway, we are not at war with the us.
May God bless you. | loyal wrote: |
The media can't be trusted. Besides, when was the last time you saw an Islamic media program not a western one? Probaly never. So no wonder you have not heard an Islamic news program on telly declaring it wrong. |
You've got to pay attention...
1) if the media said a million muslims marched in protest of bin laden and/or terrorists, I'm sure it would be believable. Don't blame your lack of action on the media. If you do it, they will report it.
2) I could care less about Islamic stations. ANY stations would be fine. From CBS to Fox to Reuters to Al Jazeera. I don't care. Just do it!
| Quote: |
| Besides, there's no tens of thousands. It's a couple of hundred. |
Oh. Really? You mean a couple hundred thousand?
The International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates Hezbollah forces alone comprise of 600-1000 active fighters (with 3,000 - 5,000 available and 10,000 reservists) That's not including Hamas, Al Quada, and the numerous other copycat factions.
Care to count again? | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
You've got to pay attention...
1) if the media said a million muslims marched in protest of bin laden and/or terrorists, I'm sure it would be believable. Don't blame your lack of action on the media. If you do it, they will report it.
|
If the media said the moon was made of cheese you're sure it would be believable. That's your argument basically.
Once again you accuse me and Muslims doing little. You haven't the faintest clue what're doing. We are doing lots. It's just people like you don't want to listen.
Islamic websites, adverts on arabic channels, awarness weeks, speaking out in mosques, speechs to the public, and so on.
I saw an advert on one of the iraqi channels that told people not to sucide in a very convincing way.
| Quote: |
2) I could care less about Islamic stations. ANY stations would be fine. From CBS to Fox to Reuters to Al Jazeera. I don't care. Just do it!
|
Why would the media say Islam is a peaceful religion? We already do it on jazeera. Try watching.
| Quote: |
Oh. Really?
The International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates Hezbollah forces alone comprise of 600-1000 active fighters (with 3,000 - 5,000 available and 10,000 reservists) That's not including Hamas, Al Quada, and the numerous other copycat factions.
Care to count again?
|
First of all, i never said hypocrites. I said a couple of hundred Muslims are at war. Al Quada is not a Muslim group. Neither is it fighting for Islam; it is fighting for the middle east but they say they are doing it in the name of God.
Second of all, not all of Hezbollah is bad. There's lots of different types. Including the types that build hospitals. There's another type that goes to fight off wars.
Third, where did they get these statistics from?
Fourth, this still does not make Islam a terriost religion.
You're acting very silly. You think Muslims are bloodthirsty people, then tell us to defend ourselves. Plus, i really don't want to waste time talking with you when it's becoming quite obvious you're not interested in knowing Islam is a good peaceful religion.
May God bless you. | loyal wrote: |
If the media said the moon was made of cheese you're sure it would be believable. That's your argument basically. |
:sigh:
No. I believe about 1/2 of what the media tells me. I'm intelligent and can do my own research, (and have extensively on this subject).
YES, IF ONE MILLION MUSLIMS MARCHED, IT WOULD BE REPORTED, and Yes, I would beleive it. Please stick to the subject and quit trying to distract other readers from the truth you're so desperately trying to hide. FACT IS, there are NOT a bunch (or even more than a few) muslims denouncing terrorism. Watch how Christians do it.
There is a major difference between radical Christians and radical Muslims.
When some nut blows up an abortion clinic, we (Christians) hunt him down and throw his a$$ in jail.
When some other Islamic nut blows up a bus or a train station or an airplane full of people, they (Islamics) hang his picture on a wall and make a Martyr out of him.
Its not hard to see the difference, unless you really don't want to see it.
| Quote: |
| Once again you accuse me and Muslims doing little. You haven't the faintest clue what're doing. We are doing lots. It's just people like you don't want to listen. |
Again, the proof is in the pudding. Perhas a couple calls to CBS and NBC are in order if you want poeple to see what you're doing.
| Quote: |
Fourth, this still does not make Islam a terriost religion.
|
No. Your lack of defending Islam from those using it's name for terror is making Islam a terrorist religion.
| Quote: |
You're acting very silly. You think Muslims are bloodthirsty people, then tell us to defend ourselves. Plus, i really don't want to waste time talking with you when it's becoming quite obvious you're not interested in knowing Islam is a good peaceful religion.
|
I'm not acting.
I don't think Muslims are bloodthirsty, then tell you to defend yourself. I think (a very large number) of radical Islamics are bloodthirsty, and am telling you to defend yourself from their using Islam for thier cause.
How many times do I have to tell you that? Are you aware that every time I DO tell you that and you dodge me, I believe less and less that you're not a terrorist. It's by your innaction that I and most of the rest of western civilization think the way we do.
Like I said, "There is a major difference between radical Christians and radical Muslims.
When some nut blows up an abortion clinic, we hunt him down and throw his a$$ in jail.
When some other nut blows up a bus or a train station or an airplane full of people, they hang his picture on a wall and make a hero out of him.
Its not hard to see the difference, unless you really don't want to see it."S3nd K3ys: Stop trying to spread hatred! The last thing this world need is you, this is a time when we need communication between peoples not bigots spreading hatred! People like you are the cause of all this shit in the world. Arab Muslim bigots who spread hatred by saying the the west wonts to kill all Muslims, Western bigots like you who spread shit about all Muslim supporting "terrorism", Muslim bigots that say that the Christens are evil infidels, Christens bigots who say that Islam is an evil religion and Ala is a pegon god.
If you bigots would just shut the hell up this would would be a much better place. we need communication and understanding NOT bigotry!
There is only two true enemy's, two enemy's that are the enemy's of all, the greatest enemy's of every person in existence. Fear and ignorants. And you give in to them both. Like the frightened child you are.
I still maintain that the only reason Islam is growing as fast as it is (which, to your surprise is NOT as fast as Christianity), is because of high birth rates in the poor nations that are mostly Islamic.
Wheres many Christian people are converted - educated and intelligent.
But we aren't here to discuss superiority, are we? I guess I fail to see how this brings up much discussion...
Let the flaming commence!
| The Conspirator wrote: |
S3nd K3ys: Stop trying to spread hatred! The last thing this world need is you, this is a time when we need communication between peoples not bigots spreading hatred! People like you are the cause of all this **** in the world. Arab Muslim bigots who spread hatred by saying the the west wonts to kill all Muslims, Western bigots like you who spread **** about all Muslim supporting "terrorism", Muslim bigots that say that the Christens are evil infidels, Christens bigots who say that Islam is an evil religion and Ala is a pegon god.
If you bigots would just shut the hell up this would would be a much better place. we need communication and understanding NOT bigotry!
There is only two true enemy's, two enemy's that are the enemy's of all, the greatest enemy's of every person in existence. Fear and ignorants. And you give in to them both. Like the frightened child you are. |
As harsh as he says it, I agree. I don't see the point in argueing like this, both religions have thier bad points, past and present. For example, in Afganistan before it was invaded, a woman could be beaten half to death for being on the street alone, or for showing thier ankles. There are also a number of atrocities commited by christians(mostly during the inquisition and the crusades), as in the instance quoted earlier, and during the reconquest of spain, where the christians killed indiscriminately. Their reasoning was simple. God will know his own(Yeah, that's pretty messed up). | loyal wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Wrong.
Muslims have always denounced evil actions such as 9/11. If you claim we did not denounce it then you are very ignorant. Muslims HEARD it being denounced in their own mosques and denounce it themselves and i read an article every few weeks condeming some sort of evil action from any Muslim website.
It's also ironic how you think Muslims are violent yet say we should stand up for ourselves and declare ourselves not violent.
By the way, the Qur'an does not allow killing except in war and self-defence:
Glorious Qur'an [4:29]: O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.
Thus 4:29 says no sucide bombing.
Glorious Qur'an [4:89]: They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.
Thus 4:89 gives permission to kill in war the enemies.
Glorious Qur'an [17:33]: You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice (e.g. self-defence). If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped.
Thus 17:33 declares life sacred and no-one shall be killed (except in the course of justice).
May God bless you. |
?watching this topic grow has finally brought me to a point where ill try to change somw misconceptions..
I know that after this post there will be people that will start quting parts and commenting on it. but as a request, plz think before you comment on anything and the whole passage before making any decision !
as you the the media today, especially CNN and BBC, are a world wide influence. People have taken these 24x7 news channels as their ultimate source of knowledge, and i tell you that this media is the only thing that is turning the world into a global battlezone.
As this topic is about Islam i will get to the point. Islam is the youngest present religion on the world. Only about 1400 yeasr of age it is spreading throughout the world as wild fire. And i tell you it not is not high birth rate !!
[quote=Soulfire]I still maintain that the only reason Islam is growing as fast as it is (which, to your surprise is NOT as fast as Christianity), is because of high birth rates in the poor nations that are mostly Islamic.
[/quote]
Islam is a religion of purity and peace. And because of its honesty and greatness people are "Converting" to it without many questions.
well ill tell you what exactly is Islam..
As you see that God, Allah, has not sent just one religion to the planet. There are a total of 4 religions that are Divine and are sent down to man by Allah, unlike Budhism, Hinduism etc. These 4 religion have their own Respected Holy Books that are also sent down by Allah to the Prophet of that religion. For example Jesus Christ was blessed with Bible for Christianity or Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was Blessed with the Holy Qur'an for Islam.
My point here is that these sacred religions are actually new versions of the old one. As in todays world if a software is found with a bug that is present in CD's worldwide, the owner or producer fixes the bug and sells out the new version. Similarly Islam is the latest version of the last 3 religions as bugs started to form in those religion.
But the main theme behind all these religions was the same:-
Allah is one, He has no parents or children, He is the owner of this Universe, He is the createor of everything and is the All Knowing.
as Quran is the last version to be revealed Allah said about it that He, Himself will protect this religion and hence no man power can ever change it, thus no need for another version will be required.
So i hope you guyz now know what Islam ios now, i will clear some points..
many people belive that things such as Honor Killings etc, exist in the Islamic society, but i tell you that Islam does not allow shedding of blood in any situation except war. And belive me Islam religion is go Great that it even asks Muslims to respect other people and pray for them as they are also creations of Allah. Islam tells us to pray for the dis-believers that may Allah guide them to the right path, and if Allah wants to He can do it. You wont even see it coming before become a devote Muslim.
I have also seen post about the incident of 9/11 about which the media has declared Muslims responsible. An the people that beilive in this are actually blinded by these news channels... ok y do i say so.. well its because of this:
1) America is extremely developed in technolgoy that everyone believes. For security reasons a security camera is set up on terminals on the airport the record every persons entry into the air plane. when on 9/11 incident, the planes were hijacked, no such footage was made public..
2) World Trade Center's towers were declared to be the best construction of its time. And the construction team even stated that even if one section of side of the building is removed, the other sid is strng enough to hold the bulding uprigth. So what happened to that technology of latest lab tested steel and cement on 9/11.
3) Some investigation teams told the public that because of the explotion the steel melted hence causing the building to collapse.... im not really sure, but according to me steel requires about 3000 C of heat to melt (not sure of this value) and sure enough that explosion was not nuclear !
4) supposedly, if the plane chared on lvle 80 - 100 of the building, meaning only 10 - 15 floors were weakened or damaged... do you think the total wight of 15 floors was enough to take down with it a total of 80 other floors that contained about 10's of 1000's tones of materials.
5) if the building did have to fall... why do you think it has had to fall within 30 meters of its base.. y didnt it tilt even a centimeter. y did it have to be so damn perfect !!
what i m trying to proove here is that America itself is reponsible for the incident just so that it could start its own "Anti-Terrorism movement" and take over countries.. it wanted iraq for oil.. it persauded isreal to attack Palastine and Lebenon so that they would buy America's weapons etc...
all by framing one religion Islam, the religion that is innocent .. only prooved guilty by brain washing the world.. using the influence of BBC and CNN America and allies of it have stuffed hatred Islam in peoples mind...
Awake people.. get out of this darkness.. come over and live with a Muslim family... and you will know yourself.............................................................................
Please, no stupid conspiracy theory's. The Freemasons are not ruling the would, the world isn't run by a cabal of Jewish business men, we know who killed Kennedy, aliens didn't crash at Roswell, the moon landing was real and 9/11 was not done by the US.
| Quote: |
| 2) World Trade Center's towers were declared to be the best construction of its time. And the construction team even stated that even if one section of side of the building is removed, the other sid is strng enough to hold the bulding uprigth. So what happened to that technology of latest lab tested steel and cement on 9/11. |
Even the strongest of structures has its weaknesses.
| Quote: |
| 3) Some investigation teams told the public that because of the explotion the steel melted hence causing the building to collapse.... im not really sure, but according to me steel requires about 3000 C of heat to melt (not sure of this value) and sure enough that explosion was not nuclear ! |
The steel didn't melt, it the fire caused by the crash comprimised the integraty of the steel.
Even a small nuclear explosion would be many kilotons in size and would have destroyed the towers and the surrounding buildings and people in an instant and thats just the fireball, adding the shock wave and many more buildings would be destroyed and many, many, many more would be dead. First of all i would like to say that to not make comments and statements when your not sure of em, and offence to another person staements is very unethical, so plz be a litle more contained and learn to respect.
Secondly, there is no proof available that states that the moonlanding was real. Infact your own television channel, Star World, showed the whole studio in which the film was shot. Some questoins. why would a flag be waving on the moon and y whould it be as stiff as cardboard.. Why would the sand settle so quickly after Niel Armstrong would kick it into the air.. y would the moon buggy not be air lifted after it jumped off hills.. Most of all why would there be the sound of the bugy !!! there is no medium... no air nothing ! y would the landing of the ship and running of the buggy cause so much noise !
Thirdly there is proof at hand that world trade center incident was a set-up... you only stated one thing against this incident... "comprimised the integraty of the steel" and y would the best available construction material be affected by just a fireball, as you call it. And by the point of nuclear explosion...i meant that it was indeed just a fireball... and not a nuclear bomb that brough down the whole 2 towers crashing down and gathering into a perfect heap...
and about Kenedy... im not sure but i doubt it was a Muslim.. if the guy stated soo, he was framing us.... i think even that was a set-up.. why was that guy killed imediately after he was caught... dont you think he was hiding something at a poilice agent himself shot him....
think !!!
The answer to everything is just beside the corner.... you just need to decide or rather find out which corner it is.... 
| The Conspirator wrote: |
Please, no stupid conspiracy theory's. The Freemasons are not ruling the would, the world isn't run by a cabal of Jewish business men, we know who killed Kennedy, aliens didn't crash at Roswell, the moon landing was real and 9/11 was not done by the US.
| Quote: | | 2) World Trade Center's towers were declared to be the best construction of its time. And the construction team even stated that even if one section of side of the building is removed, the other sid is strng enough to hold the bulding uprigth. So what happened to that technology of latest lab tested steel and cement on 9/11. |
Even the strongest of structures has its weaknesses.
| Quote: | | 3) Some investigation teams told the public that because of the explotion the steel melted hence causing the building to collapse.... im not really sure, but according to me steel requires about 3000 C of heat to melt (not sure of this value) and sure enough that explosion was not nuclear ! |
The steel didn't melt, it the fire caused by the crash comprimised the integraty of the steel.
Even a small nuclear explosion would be many kilotons in size and would have destroyed the towers and the surrounding buildings and people in an instant and thats just the fireball, adding the shock wave and many more buildings would be destroyed and many, many, many more would be dead. |
People around the world saw the second plain fly into the building. And a crash like that plus the fire would bring down any building, there are Muslim fundamentalist militant extremists who see no problem with suicide attack and think all Americans are infidels who wont's to kill all Muslims.
All the evidence is there. You just choose not to see it.
When it happened, I didn't assume some Muslim extremists did it, thats a mistake but evidence came out that says Muslim extremists did it.
On the moon landings, been discussed
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-50852.html why do you think Muslim extremist whould want to destroy the building that controls world trade?
and i've already pointed all the points..... y werent there any detailed investigations... the world most famous building collapsed... why did the story ended within a few moths from the disaster.....
why werent there any records of any of the conversation the pilot would have had... even if, as people say, it was hijacked.. y the pilot never even spoke to the air tower....
you know why....because it was a complete set-up.... the planes were radio controlled and targeted for WTC itself..... why do you think the airforce did not take immediate action after the plane took the wrong turn.... y do u think the airfirce didnt bring the plane down when they say it headed straight for WTC..
and how can u even presume a terorist to infiltrate US airbase, hijack a jet plane and kamikaze into the pentagon.... it was ALL a set-up !!!
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| Rico wrote: | | Am I going to have to grow a beard? And why is that? |
Isn't it required as part of Sharia Law? |
That shows that you are well ... Uneducated ... | The Czar wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | | Rico wrote: | | Am I going to have to grow a beard? And why is that? |
Isn't it required as part of Sharia Law? |
That shows that you are well ... Uneducated ... |
I'm pretty sure he wasn't being serious. | salman_500 wrote: |
| why do you think Muslim extremist whould want to destroy the building that controls world trade? |
Would trade center was just a name, it was not the center
of world trade.
Why did Timothy McVay blow up the Oklahoma city federal building? Why did Eric Rudolf plant a bomb at the 2000 Olympics. Why was Tsar Alexander II killed by suicide bombers belonging to a group calling them selves the people will, he started radical reforms that could have lead to democracy in Russia but they apparently though, "hay lets kill him, that will help the people, the only tsar in Russia's willing to share power and start positive reforms that help the people.
They think that America is an evil empire who's sole concerns in the middle east are Israel and oil and who wonts to kill Muslims. And the world twin towers was a symbol of Americas power, that why they attacked it, twice.
They are fundamentalist Muslim extremists. The key word s are fundamentalist and extremists. Like any fundamentalist group they have a very strict, a very limited view on the world and morels, they think God is on there side and any questioning of there belief is a horrid sin. And like any extremist groups they are willing to go to the extremes to defeat there perceived enemy's.
Fundamentalist extremist groups are always possible but in the right situation's they will flourish and grow and right now (dew in large part to the actions of the government) were in such situation's.
| Quote: |
| and i've already pointed all the points..... y werent there any detailed investigations... the world most famous building collapsed... why did the story ended within a few moths from the disaster..... |
No you havn't. there where detaled investigations and it didn't end a few munth after.
| Quote: |
why werent there any records of any of the conversation the pilot would have had... even if, as people say, it was hijacked.. y the pilot never even spoke to the air tower....[/quoe]
If it was hijacked, do you think they would have let them tell the sir traffic controllers? The pilots doer didn't have a lock (or a good one) and they don;t monitor whats happening in the passenger sections of the plain. And do you really think that they would have looked for the black boxes in the ruble? No they looked for people and a black box is not indestructible.
|
and how can u even presume a terorist to infiltrate US airbase, hijack a jet plane and kamikaze into the pentagon.... it was ALL a set-up !!![/quote]
They hijacked a passenger plain, not a military plain.
Seriously, where did you get your information?
Do some resech on the subject and not from where you got your information before. You need a biest source.
Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_report http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05aug20041050/www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf http://911.gnu-designs.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theorieswel.. first of all.. even if you guyz do blame Muslim responsible for the terrorist attaks... they are not for religion... they are for political issues... there were attacks by various people of various reagions when America declared war on Iraq.... that is political.....
and by the way... no passenger airline crashed into the pentagon... well even though it is what media tells the world... a detailed investigation by a voluntaree group, showed no signs of a passenger plane... it was infact a missle launched by a mlitary plane that was spotted by many people....
the media tells that the passenger plane crashed into pentagon, slidd on the groud.. took a few light poles with it and then banged into the pentagon.... but as this voluntary group investigatied.. no signs of some skiddin down the grass road or plaza's where found... the poles that were on the ground had no dents no danaged... even the light bulbs still worked... and the place that is considered to be the ost bomb resistant place was attacked on... the place where it hit had no signs of any passenger planes... not evena single piece of the two 6 tonne engines.. no burnt bodies, no melted part of hull.. absolutely nothing...
and about the world trade center.....if you have a movie of it crasshing down to earth..... play it in slow motion... and notice the tiny explosions that place 20 stories below the faling tree..... there very easy to notice... just watch with open eyes !!
everyone know the world trade center had gold about $200 million US dollars in its safe in the cellar... but just 1 day back.. all the gold was taken out and deposited somewhere else.....
a few days back befor the incident.... giving a reason of security the whole building was evacuated... most probably to plant explosives for the BIG day.....
MAN IT WAS A COMPLETE SET-UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree with you Salman ... What did you watch? Loose Change? Anyways ... Suicide is forbidden actually yet they think that they are dying in Syahid ...
salman_500: I don't blame Muslims, I said it was fundamentalist Muslim extremists who where burn put of and thrive in a situation caused in large part do to the the actions of the government and the other western powers.
I don't see the world in the form of religious, ethnic and racial groups, it see the world in terms of actions and reactions and every action is a reaction. If you see the world as ethnic, religious and racial groups than its easy to blame some religious, ethnic or raceial group but I don't see the would in that way.
The fundamentalist Muslim extremist militants believe that the US only care about Israel and oil and wonts to kill all Muslims.
And if you would do some research you will find it was done by Al Qada.
Do research.
I personally think the whole world would be better if everyone was Islamic, its laws and rules/guidelines are very strict, and if everyone was Islamic it would be a perfect peaceful place, now there is some corruption with it, as there is a lot of Religions, but Islam is still a relatively new Religion, and need to be given a chance, now extremism is a different matter, and to my knowledge is not a true part of Islam, but you do get extremists in ALL religions,
I just want to point out, I am not a Muslim, I believe in a higher plane of existence, and the only way to get there is through knowledge, but that the Idea of Islamic beliefs are to me mainly about overcoming all the "sins" of man.
If every one was Buddhist, there would still be rape, murder, wars and genocide. And Buddhism is the mot peaceful religion in existence.
If every one was of the same religion no matter how peaceful it is, humanity would still be violent and aggressive.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
If every one was Buddhist, there would still be rape, murder, wars and genocide. And Buddhism is the mot peaceful religion in existence.
If every one was of the same religion no matter how peaceful it is, humanity would still be violent and aggressive. |
Thats true, but it Islam has got a good way of combatting itIf Islam was as violent and hate carrying as some people say here, I guess there wouldn't be so many new Muslims over the world he people.
I guess, well actually I KNOW that Islam is NOT like that.
THAT is why Islam is still growing and will continue to do so.
The problem is that some people see this as a danger for their every day live and carry out attacks (physically or verbaly) against Muslims.
You want examples ? I will give you examples:
Lebanon was attacked in the name of "War against terrorism"
Iraq was attacked in the name of "War against terrorism"
Palestinians are attacked in the name of "War against terrorism"
AND if I where to grow a beard and try to fly from Belgium to America I will be picked out of the long qeue and be interrogated.... in the name of "War against Terrorism"
WHY ? ? ? ? What do people have against Muslims ? ? ?
Is this an old Phobia you guys still have from the Dark Ages ? ? ?
I don't know.
| Simulator wrote: |
| The Conspirator wrote: | If every one was Buddhist, there would still be rape, murder, wars and genocide. And Buddhism is the mot peaceful religion in existence.
If every one was of the same religion no matter how peaceful it is, humanity would still be violent and aggressive. |
Thats true, but it Islam has got a good way of combatting it |
It doesn't work though. Just look at the fundamentalist extremists. All it take is one line that when taken on its own could mean kill, kill, kill.
Thats how Christens and Muslims justified killing through out there history's. | The Conspirator wrote: |
| Simulator wrote: | | The Conspirator wrote: | If every one was Buddhist, there would still be rape, murder, wars and genocide. And Buddhism is the mot peaceful religion in existence.
If every one was of the same religion no matter how peaceful it is, humanity would still be violent and aggressive. |
Thats true, but it Islam has got a good way of combatting it |
It doesn't work though. Just look at the fundamentalist extremists. All it take is one line that when taken on its own could mean kill, kill, kill.
Thats how Christens and Muslims justified killing through out there history's. |
Well under that logic, no Religion works, so should we get rid of all Religions?I don't see how its possible. people hold on to there religions even when it goes against logic and reason.
| salman_500 wrote: |
and by the way... no passenger airline crashed into the pentagon... well even though it is what media tells the world... a detailed investigation by a voluntaree group, showed no signs of a passenger plane... it was infact a missle launched by a mlitary plane that was spotted by many people....
|
| salman_500 wrote: |
MAN IT WAS A COMPLETE SET-UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
dude, do you believe everything you are told, or are you just one tool short of the set. Except for fear, what exactly would the american government, or anyone else in this conspiracy theory, have to gain from 9/11, very little. Fear could have been acheived in a much easier fashion, and have been maintained, by regular smaller attacks, don't you think
on the other hand muslim extremists had everything to gain, destroying a potent symbol of american supremacy in the heart of the most famous city in the US, indelibly changing the NY skyline
dude you need a head test | Quote: |
| It allows Muslims to kill non-Muslims yes, but this is in WAR. Didn't you read the next verse i quoted which is 17:33? "you shall not kill any person...except in the course of justice". |
| Quote: |
| So in summary to this, justice is self-defence or war. This means no Muslim can kill any non-Muslim except in self-defence or war. |
thanks for saying that.... we hear from a muslim: that they think they can kill people in some situations... So you show that muslims are allowed to kill non-mulslims...
The fact is that for muslims, we live in a PERMANENT WAR, for that reason they kill many non-muslims, specially Christians...
for muslims, this world is divided in two parts, the muslims and the non-muslims, and they consider that there is a permanent war between us.. | Simulator wrote: |
I personally think the whole world would be better if everyone was Islamic, its laws and rules/guidelines are very strict, and if everyone was Islamic it would be a perfect peaceful place, now there is some corruption with it, as there is a lot of Religions, but Islam is still a relatively new Religion, and need to be given a chance, now extremism is a different matter, and to my knowledge is not a true part of Islam, but you do get extremists in ALL religions,
I just want to point out, I am not a Muslim, I believe in a higher plane of existence, and the only way to get there is through knowledge, but that the Idea of Islamic beliefs are to me mainly about overcoming all the "sins" of man. |
It could be a good idea if you can look for testimonies of x-muslims, then you will have a real idea about islam.. specially woman....
personally, I think that it would be really sad if everybody in this world is a muslim, JUST IMAGINE!! to not see the face of any woman any more, all them with veils on their heads....
Islam was spread in the world (since the beginig) by FORCE, just read a bit of history....ok first of all thnx to:
"Simulator" and "Rafifaisal" to support Islam.. really i really appreciate it.. and i belive that God will reward you appropriately..Inshallah..
secondly, im glad that conspirator is also cooled .... well i still have a couple of things to say... just like simulator said... every religion has extremist.... kepping away all thing like al-qaida etc..... i say that it doesn t always have to be Muslim extremists that have to be the terrorists... i say that because American Media has developed and impressin of this around the globe... other real terrorist parties are actually doing there stuff whereas framing us innocent people....
i think its time people started to think out of the box....
welll for this guy who still thinks that the 9/11 was a terorist atack... well foirst ill ask u a question.... when was American "Anti-Terrorist" movement started....... well if you dont know... i think it was immediately after the 9/11 attacks.....
ok when was Iraq attacked on name of "Anti-Terrorist Act" ..... welll it was after the 9/11 incident wasnt it....
well you see... like we say... no pain no gain..... so you see wasting the twin towers worth a couple billion dollars to convince the world that it is good..... and Muslims are bad.... was like no loss to it..... and now that it convinced the world with what it wanted.... it can atak iraq for free oil...worth BILLIONS ! ... it can persuade Israel to attack lebonan and palastine so they buy armour and weapons off America... again... profit worth BILLIONS !!!
Practically America can attack any nation on this planet... and everyone will be ready to aid for him... supposedly if it attacks Pakistan tommorow... India will be ready to allow thae army to stay in India or use the airforce base.... and alos it has its armies in Afghanistan... and can attack any time.... and i think it has enough proof to convince the world that Pakistan is terrorist homeland....
well personally.. i think that this is alll a complete PLOT..... i dont even belive in the existance of Usama-Bin-Ladin.... I think either he is already dead... or never existed.... but America is using that personality to create more proof against Muslims......
if you see the footage of Usama-Bin-Ladin that ws shot after the 9/11 incident.... the guy looks nothing like Usama... infact the person who made the movie even reduced its quiality to be less clear of the fact that its fake !!
cmon guyz.... just do some research...... its all a PLOT !!! every thing is SET-UP...... if your too busy to research.... i can tell you everything... but you guyz are so badly suffering from "Media Influence" that you dont even belive what your PARENTS say !!!
seriously guyz...
BBC + CNN + OTHER MEDIA = CRAZY PEOPLE ! + BRAIN WASH !
and for this guyz
| molinas wrote: |
| Quote: | | It allows Muslims to kill non-Muslims yes, but this is in WAR. Didn't you read the next verse i quoted which is 17:33? "you shall not kill any person...except in the course of justice". |
| Quote: | | So in summary to this, justice is self-defence or war. This means no Muslim can kill any non-Muslim except in self-defence or war. |
thanks for saying that.... we hear from a muslim: that they think they can kill people in some situations... So you show that muslims are allowed to kill non-mulslims...
The fact is that for muslims, we live in a PERMANENT WAR, for that reason they kill many non-muslims, specially Christians...
for muslims, this world is divided in two parts, the muslims and the non-muslims, and they consider that there is a permanent war between us.. |
your 100% wrong dude... thats all im gonna say....... | mgumn wrote: |
| salman_500 wrote: |
and by the way... no passenger airline crashed into the pentagon... well even though it is what media tells the world... a detailed investigation by a voluntaree group, showed no signs of a passenger plane... it was infact a missle launched by a mlitary plane that was spotted by many people....
|
| salman_500 wrote: |
MAN IT WAS A COMPLETE SET-UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
dude, do you believe everything you are told, or are you just one tool short of the set. Except for fear, what exactly would the american government, or anyone else in this conspiracy theory, have to gain from 9/11, very little. Fear could have been acheived in a much easier fashion, and have been maintained, by regular smaller attacks, don't you think
on the other hand muslim extremists had everything to gain, destroying a potent symbol of american supremacy in the heart of the most famous city in the US, indelibly changing the NY skyline
dude you need a head test |
do you believe everything you are told, dude? dude do YOU need a head test possibly?
who has what to gain?
AMERICAN MEDIA---------THE RATINGS SOAR! $$$$
AMERICAN CORPS--------OIL, WEAPONS MANUFACTURING, ECONOMY! $$$$
AMERICAN CITIZENS----------EMOTION! ENTERTAINMENT! MEDIA! MORE!
welcome to america. it is a crazy world.salman_500: Like bluedragon said, don't believe everything you here. There is no conspiracy here and if you would stop listing too who ever told you that and look at the information you'll see that.
There are people who won;t us dead, they won;t America and Americans dead, they think of the uS as the US as an evil nation that wants to kill all Muslims and emboldened bay a few line (taken by them selves with out even thinking about what it says above and below and in the rest of the Qu'ran) from the Qu'ran.
Dear Brothers,
Thanks a lot for the Frihost.com for this excellent opportunity to discuss this hot issue.
Also thanks for all sincere participants who make others aware of this issue.
Expecting more regards
i do believe the rise of islam is completed andit was at its peak on the day the prophet Muhammaed (SA)'s demise.
from that day islam didnt rise at all but was going down in its application as foretold by the prophet himself.
it is true that muslim are increasing in number but the majority of them is runnuing away from the true meaning of islam.
this is stated by the prophet as a sign for the dooms day.
Muslims increase is be due to many reaons. the three mian reaons are
1. Their commitment to the sound and healthy faily system.
2. They are against preventing the natural way of human reproduction.
3. Religious conversions.
Muslims increase is be due to many reaons. the three mian reaons are
1. Their commitment to the sound and healthy faily system.
2. They are against preventing the natural way of human reproduction.
3. Religious conversions.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
salman_500: Like bluedragon said, don't believe everything you here. There is no conspiracy here and if you would stop listing too who ever told you that and look at the information you'll see that.
There are people who won;t us dead, they won;t America and Americans dead, they think of the uS as the US as an evil nation that wants to kill all Muslims and emboldened bay a few line (taken by them selves with out even thinking about what it says above and below and in the rest of the Qu'ran) from the Qu'ran. |
???????? | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| sarapicoazul wrote: | | The Conspirator wrote: | | Its not only quite possible but looks like its going to happen. Much to the dismay of Christan's. |
So what? Do you think that the rise of islam can represent a threat for the world or for democracy ? |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Can you really seperate people into two groups that easily? | baqavi313 wrote: |
Muslims increase is be due to many reaons. the three mian reaons are:
2. They are against preventing the natural way of human reproduction.
|
HMMMMM aren't Jews and Christians against anti-conception too ? ? ?
Where is their increase. 
Baqavi313 don't make me laugh and please come with stronger arguments, my dear friend. | billys wrote: |
Can you really seperate people into two groups that easily? |
For the purpose of this thread, using the actual number of those willing to stand up for thier religion against those that would soil it, yes.
You see, there are more admitted radical Muslims than peaceful Muslims who openly or publically denounce these admitted barbarians.
If the PEACEFUL Muslims don't speak up and speak loudly, soon, it will be too late...If the peaceful muslims went onto the streets, burnt flags, shouted slogans and held rallies and made a noice against the "admitted radical Muslims" like you would like them to, how will they be peaceful muslims anymore?
Perhaps if the western media (proven again and again to be controlled by the Jewish Lobby) would focus their news telecasts more on the peaceful denounciations of Muslim officials rather than the street protests of the general public their message would make more impact.
But now we see the statement of those officials given a small mention AFTER showing prolonged videos of more aggressive reactions. So by the time the viewer hears the news of the 'peaceful muslims' the image is already burnt onto his brain of 'admitted radical Muslims' as you put it.
And it seems you yourself has fallen for this trick.
| jipmerite wrote: |
| If the peaceful muslims went onto the streets, burnt flags, shouted slogans and held rallies and made a noice against the "admitted radical Muslims" like you would like them to, how will they be peaceful muslims anymore? |
I never said to go and burn shit.
Did I?
xalophous? is that you?
Except for the burning things, I have NO PROBLEM with what you're saying. Go in the streets, shout slogans, hold rallies and make noise against the radical barbaric 6th century idiots.
Do it.
Go on... Do it now.
S3nd: Do you believe everything you hear or don;t hear in the news media?
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| S3nd: Do you believe everything you hear or don;t hear in the news media? |
I believe if PEACEFUL muslims really were protesting en'masse against terrorists, we'd hear about it. Fact seems to be, they're not. In fact, I remember seeing a poll that like 64% of Muslims are supportive of Bin Laden and terrorists..
BTW, Con, (not sure why I still try to dialog with you, but oh well), if you'll take a look at http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-23425.html you'll see that i don't typically stick with just one news outlet. In fact, I've probably cited well over a dozen different news sources in that link alone.
So don't try to play me for some kind of fool that only listens to CNN. If Muslims ARE rising up against terrorists, I'll see it.Peaceful demonstrations will never get the press that blood and violence get. The Media outlets are big buisness, they will show the news that gets them ratings. To paraphrase Don Henly, "We want Dirty Laundry!"
There are three main reasons for fighting that I can see. Greed, feelings of inferiority, and self defense.
If a group wants to fight for one of the first two reasons, which are not honorable reasons to fight, they will find an excuse to justify it to themselves and to the world. Unfortunately that reason is, all too often, religion.
Whether you are talking about the Crusades (greedy European nobles who wanted the riches of the Moors and used "liberating the Holy Land as an excuse") or Iran taking hostages in the 80's (The West is the Great Shitan and we must teach them a lesson) or the current conflicts, religion is just an excuse.
There are billions of people on this planet who feel strongly about their respective faiths, and can do so without killing people over it.
If people want to hate, they will find a way, even if it means twisting their own religion to do so.
| Jinx wrote: |
| Peaceful demonstrations will never get the press that blood and violence get. The Media outlets are big buisness, they will show the news that gets them ratings. To paraphrase Don Henly, "We want Dirty Laundry!" |
Plus most of the world dose not have freedom of speech so protests are not allowed unless there government agrees to it.
And, there has never been a protest against "terrorism" by people who has not been directly effected by it. | The Conspirator wrote: |
| Jinx wrote: | | Peaceful demonstrations will never get the press that blood and violence get. The Media outlets are big buisness, they will show the news that gets them ratings. To paraphrase Don Henly, "We want Dirty Laundry!" |
Plus most of the world dose not have freedom of speech so protests are not allowed unless there government agrees to it.
And, there has never been a protest against "terrorism" by people who has not been directly effected by it. |
I'm talking about FREE MUSLIMS.
American Muslims are free to say what they want. I believe India, England and several other countries are the same. So where are the ones protesting against terrorists murdering women and children in the name of thier peaceful religion Islam??Name one group that has ever protested so called "terrorism"
You won;t find any. Why? Cause protests don;t work on militants.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
Name one group that has ever protested so called "terrorism"
You won;t find any. Why? . |
I already told you why... they're either afraid they'll be killed by said terrorists, or they support them, or they don't care.
Only the first is forgivable.
(pssst, it's "dialog" that doesn't work with terrorists.
I'm not saying to do it (protest) to stop the terrorists, I'm saying to do it to stop western civilization from painting the broad picture of Islamics being terrorists, because I don't believe it's true.)You are painting a broad picture of Islam as terrorist. You are part of the problem.
No one has ever protested terrorists.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
You are painting a broad picture of Islam as terrorist. You are part of the problem.
|
YOU can't read.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| because I don't believe it's true. |
YOU are part of the problem because you apparently think it's OK for terrorists to murder in the name of Islam.
| Quote: |
No one has ever protested terrorists. |
My point exactally. I don't believe its right to murder any one. I don;t like the word "terrorist" a word that in the modern would has the soul purpose of demoniozing people.
And yes you are part of the problem, you paint all Muslims as terrorist or supporters of terrorists by what you say. You try to paint Islam as an evil, violent religion by taking single lines from the Qu'ron (which you get off the internet and not by actually reading the Qu'ran) that taken on there own beam kill, kill, kill but if you look at what it says above, below and on the rest of the page, it dose not mean that. You talk about Muslims not protesting against "terrorism" when no has ever protested against terrorism, any where, of any religion. You don;t present Islam as what it truly is, a religion meant to be a peaceful religion but is being manipulated by zealots in order to justify there evil actions. You focus only on Islam and none of the other factors that lead to the currant situation, you never said anything about the poverty in the middle east, the oppression by the government there, the actions of the US and other western powers that make it seem (accurately so) that all they care about is Israel and oil, the formation Israel, the existence of Israel and the actions of Israel. All of which and more comes together to create an environment where radical fundamentalists flourish.
| Quote: |
| because I don't believe it's true. |
Go back and read you own posts, you comments say differently.
And don't put words in my mouth! Good Dicussion.
Here is another Muslim. and saying Islam is, yes Islam is a religon of piece. my friends saying that muslims do not protest against terrorism. I ask when ur childern and women are killed in Afganistan and Iraq, Palastine and Kashmir how we can protest against 'so called' terrorists which we think are freedom fighters. now a strong question the killers are freedom fighter?. i say yes what do u think mean a freedom fighter. it means one who fighting for his rights. true? now see in palastine in kashmir in Afganistan in Iraq they are struggling to get out foreign soldiers and armies. u can say Afganistan and Iraq were the "Roots Of Evil" i agree they were. but why after 5 years there is still evil. because the foreighnes are doing evil there. they make bomatment on marriage ceremanies, they made carpet bombatment on children and women ( some of my friends saying about poeple and childeren killed by islamic terrorists my question what would u say about this killing). my dear when ur relatives would be killed by armies what would be ur feelings??
i tell you if it is done with me i would not afraid of getting a gun and starting fight against that group/ army what u say. it is simple tit for tat. if u will talk to us with gun we will repay with gun. same thing is being done with muslime. u can see lebnon. what was the happning there. in 1 month israeilian bomabtment all infrastructure is destroyed, thousands of civilians are killed , and severals thousands are wounded and disabled for whole life. the women and chlideren killed there what u like to say about it, is it not 'terrroistm'. and what would be the result of this state terrorism. the lebnonies will join hizbullah the socalled terrorist organization. and they would start fighting against israel. what u say about the feelings of a lebnoni who lost his child, of wife or mother. he will present a bukay of flowers to israeil no he will kill himself and several others in some city of israeil and media will call it a terrorism. no doubt it is strongly prohibited in Islam. i can gurantee you and provide u the prooves it is not permitted in islam to kill civilians but we are humans also. try to think to feel what are the thoughts of a muslim who lost his family in socalled war against terrorism (while he was not the guilty) and what would be the result of these thoughts.
Regards[/i]
| The Conspirator wrote: |
. I don;t like the word "terrorist" a word that in the modern would has the soul purpose of demoniozing people.
|
Sorry 'bout offending you with the word terrorist to describe how these radical islamics act... well, not really, cuz it's somewhat true. But not to worry, it will change soon. The War On Terror will soon become the Holy War or the War of Civilizations soon if peaceful Islamics dont stand up and be heard.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | because I don't believe it's true. |
Go back and read you own posts, you comments say differently.
|
I wrote them, and can't remember off hand saying that I believe all Muslims are terrorists, perhaps you'll show me?
Perhaps not. | Simulator wrote: |
| The Conspirator wrote: | If every one was Buddhist, there would still be rape, murder, wars and genocide. And Buddhism is the mot peaceful religion in existence.
If every one was of the same religion no matter how peaceful it is, humanity would still be violent and aggressive. |
Thats true, but it Islam has got a good way of combatting it |
As in...
steal someone's salary because your family's starving (desperation) and then get your hands cut for it?
Violence is not the answer to a crime.
Criminals would exist anywhere... it's basic human nature to destroy each other in the pursuit of power and influence. Deal with it. If not for religion, we'd just find other reasons to hate each other, and claim superiority.
Anyway, I fail to see why a thread about Muslim population explosion has transformed into an almost flamey goop of rants about which religion is better, and how Islam is going to destroy the world.
I just have one question to ask...
loyal, where do you live?
I personally find it very nice that there are speeches against terrorism in mosques as well as pamphlets being given out, etc etc... there's a possibility that S3nd K3ys in America hasn't had a chance to view any of these activities while they could be happening in an Islamic country in which you live.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| American Muslims are free to say what they want. I believe India, England and several other countries are the same. So where are the ones protesting against terrorists murdering women and children in the name of thier peaceful religion Islam?? |
As much as the American world (read Christian world, if you will) is against Islam, I'm inclined to believe that there's no blood lost the other way either. After the Iraq invasion, the Muslims are wary of America, they're stuck between crying out against terrorists and hating America.
Note, I read the following post after writing the above, but I'm quoting it to prove my point:
| Quote: |
Good Dicussion.
Here is another Muslim. and saying Islam is, yes Islam is a religon of piece. my friends saying that muslims do not protest against terrorism. I ask when ur childern and women are killed in Afganistan and Iraq, Palastine and Kashmir how we can protest against 'so called' terrorists which we think are freedom fighters. now a strong question the killers are freedom fighter?. i say yes what do u think mean a freedom fighter. it means one who fighting for his rights. true? now see in palastine in kashmir in Afganistan in Iraq they are struggling to get out foreign soldiers and armies. u can say Afganistan and Iraq were the "Roots Of Evil" i agree they were. but why after 5 years there is still evil. because the foreighnes are doing evil there. they make bomatment on marriage ceremanies, they made carpet bombatment on children and women ( some of my friends saying about poeple and childeren killed by islamic terrorists my question what would u say about this killing). my dear when ur relatives would be killed by armies what would be ur feelings?? |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| sarapicoazul wrote: | | The Conspirator wrote: | | Its not only quite possible but looks like its going to happen. Much to the dismay of Christan's. |
So what? Do you think that the rise of islam can represent a threat for the world or for democracy ? |
I guess that depends of what type of Islamics we're talking about here, doesn't it?
See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
and
2) the kind that sit quietly and idly by, and claim that Islam really is peaceful when confronted by non-muslims questioning the actions of the kind of muslims that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels, yet refuses to denounce what other Islamics are doing to women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killin Infidels. |
Ther is maby 1000 muslims who is number 1. And you said it yourself, ther is around 1.5 billion muslims in the world. Do the math. Not many "terrorist"it is media who representing all muslims terrorists. and there is not definition of terrorist. in my last post i discussed some thing. terrorist is every one who violate against the human rights, violates the civilians.
so we can see only individuals and muslims are not socalled terrorists. the us army, uk army and nato forces doing in afganistan and iraq, isareil doin in lebnon and palastine is also terrorism.
u may do not agree with me as u think it is "self defence". but who is responcible for the murders of thousands of civilians in iraq, afganistan and palastine. they attacked on established govts. and now cannot controle violance, now soldies are also killed and civilian are also in a same bomb blost. who is responsible.
only muslims??????????????????
| patrickrapp wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | See, there seems to be two kinds of Islamics,
1) the kind that kills women and children while hiding behind them in the hopes of killing Infidels.
|
Ther is maby 1000 muslims who is number 1. And you said it yourself, ther is around 1.5 billion muslims in the world. Do the math. Not many "terrorist" |
I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public by being off by some factor of 10 or 100... but it's ok because it's not so much the actual number of terrorists (which is in the 10's if not 100's of thousands), its the number of non-terrorists not complaining about what the terrorists are doing to their religion. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public by being off by some factor of 10 or 100... but it's ok because it's not so much the actual number of terrorists (which is in the 10's if not 100's of thousands), its the number of non-terrorists not complaining about what the terrorists are doing to their religion. |
Evidence ? Sources ? You cannot, of course, include Iraqi and Afghani insurgents in this because they are fighting in their own countries against a foreign occupying force - the US classifies all it's enemies as terrorists, of course, but they also refuse to endorse the UN definition of terrorism and (shock horror) have vetoed discussion on it twice.
Thus we get statements like this one about terrorism in the Middle East for 1999.
| Quote: |
| "there were 423 international terrorist attacks in 2000, an increase of 8% from the 392 attacks recorded during 1999". |
In the whole of the middle east ? Wow...how come ? Well, because the US have a definition of terrorism that suits them very well since it excludes Israel and themselves from consideration.
| Quote: |
| Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant* targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience." |
Notice the 'subnational'. Nice. That of course means that in 2001 there were NO terrorist incidents in Saudi Arabia, but there were 3 unexplained bombings and 2 shooting incidents. In the same year there were 152 terrorist attacks in Columbia. The reason, of course, is plain - these were attacks on the transnational Oil Pipeline - therefore important to the US.
The US also include off-duty military personell in the list of 'non-combatants' which is another nice little scam. It means that any military casualities on their side will normally be counted. They even take it further by declaring :
| Quote: |
| "We also consider as acts of terrorism attacks on military installations or on armed military personnel when a state of military hostilities does not exist at the site, such as bombings against US bases." |
So, basically, terrorism, by US definition, is any act against the US or US interests, but is definitely NOT any act by the US or US client states against anyone for any reason anytime.
Similarly, using this definition, all Palestinian rocket attacks are terrorist but any Israeli assassination, gunship attacks, artillery bombardment or whatever are not terrorism.
Fortunately the rest of the global community is slightly more honest on this issue.A reasonable definition of terrorism would probably be the UN academic submission, thus :
[quote]"Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperilled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought" (Schmid, 1988).[quote]
The US will not, of course, accept this because it does not exempt them. Indeed, by this definition the US is guilty of terrorism on numerous occasions.
Back to the main question...
In 2003 the US office on this matter said :
| Quote: |
| 190 acts of international terrorism occurred in 2003 -- a slight drop from 198 attacks the previous year and the lowest total since 1969. |
Interesting.
For anyone wanting to look at a serious report on the issue then the following may be of interest. (Adobe PDF format).
http://camres.frih.net/resources/2004-MIPT-Terrorism-Annual.pdf
Regards
Chris.Hi Chris,
I couldn't agree more with you.
I think the whole definition of the word "Terrorism or terrorist" has been changed BY the US FOR the US.
Any country that has nuclear capability is defined as a "Terrorist" country. like Iran f.e. but where does it leave Israel and the US ?
Any attack carried out by so called muslim activists is defined as an act of terrorism but the barbaric attacks by Israel on Lebanese civilian targets are defined as "Act of self defence or the War against Terrorism"
Nice wouldn't you say ? ?
This naturally misguides the public oppinion.
ALL terrorist acts are linked to Islam by a lot of people. ----> Uncorrectly of course.
Chris, it looks like you have a fair amount of knowledge on this topic. What do you do in your daily life ? If I may ask so. | Bikerman wrote: |
You cannot, of course, include Iraqi and Afghani insurgents
|
I can, and they're terrorists, many of them foriegn.
More Iraqi and Afghan civilians are dying at the hands of the terrorists there than Americans are.
:edit: just because they're not killing Americans doesn't mean they're not terrorists. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: |
You cannot, of course, include Iraqi and Afghani insurgents
|
I can, and they're terrorists, many of them foriegn.
More Iraqi and Afghan civilians are dying at the hands of the terrorists there than Americans are.
:edit: just because they're not killing Americans doesn't mean they're not terrorists. |
sources ? Ahh...never mind...
Well, so Nelson Mandela of course is a terrorist, as are all the French and other European resistance movements from WWII. All the Palestinians are terrorists and Fair enough, it's one view. I find it a bit too pacifist for me, but it's certainly a view. It could be summarised as the collectivist pacifist viewpoint.
Personally I take a rationalist non-pacifist view and would probably be chucking whatever I could get my hands on at anyone who invaded my country, terrorism or not.
Of course the best course would have been to stay out and then no terrorists and no insurgents (like before the invasion). But how was Bush to know...err...actually....he did. Intelligence told him. We (Amnesty) told him, the CIA told him and even Toady Blair probably mentioned the fact.
Late news....
I see that the US has finally began to admit the obvious today - that the world is a more dangerous place because of Iraq...Duh...do you think so ?
Of course Bush is panicking and has firstly tried to rubbish the report (not wise with his IQ) and then changed tack and has just offered to release the report in full so the public can decide for themselves...LOL...in Europe this is the common view and is not even really debated since it is a statement of the bleedin obvious.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5375064.stm
There are bad people
in every communities.
9/11 is surely an act of
evil. Muslims around the
world had always condemned
such actions.
But if one analyseshe will find that
Islamic extremismflourishes
because of the immoral foreign
policy of the Western
Government (US and UK).
On the contrary, I would like
to say most of the people of
the West never raise questions
against their government for
waging wars in Iraq or supporting
Israel to commit massacres
in Lebanon and Palestines.
Muslims have seen hundreds of
thousands of muslims die because
of the immoral foreign policy of
the western Government and the
people did not say anything against
Israel which has been killing innocent
civilians including children, occupying
lands and demolishing houses.
I would like to ask how many more
children has to die and houses to be
demolished before the people in the
West would accept what Israel is doing
is notthing but "Terrorism".
| sarfaraz wrote: |
[size=18]
[b]There are bad people
in every communities.
9/11 is surely an act of
evil. Muslims around the
world had always condemned
such actions.
|
Really?Did people in the US care when thousands of Japanese where killed when the US nukes Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Would they care now? Whats the deference between now and then? Hatred that came out of war and ignorants.
What dose this have to do with Islam? Millions of Muslims around the world hate us. Why? I've explained that a dozen times so you know. How to stop it? Stop doing the shit that makes them hate us!
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Did people in the US care when thousands of Japanese where killed when the US nukes Hiroshima and Nagasaki? |
Of course we did.
That was one of the hardest decisions we've had to make as a nation. (You really need to do research.) We knew what we were unleashing. But it worked out for the best (as we calculated it would) and saved countless lives on BOTH sides. The Japanese people before that point were 100% ready to die for their idiotic leader (whom they foolishly looked at as a God), and the US would have lost untold thousands defeating Japan.
Also keep in mind that, up until the Japanese attacked us, and even afterwards, the vast majority of Americans (I'm talking over 80%) were NOT IN FAVOR OF WAR.
The US was an Isolationist country at that time and only entered the war when it was absolutely and completely un-avoidable.
Honestly, Con, your rhetoric about the US (especially it's history) is getting old. You constantly bring up nukes and who used them half a century ago, with no regard for the real situation OR the real outcome. (i.e. go research how the Japanese feel about America today)No religion whether Islam or Christianity is bad. Its upto people like us who make it good or bad. So we should not say or call other religions wrong or whatever we wish. But there are few people that make the name of Islam, Chrisitianity, Hinduism or Jewism dirty by making some foolish acts and spreading violence.
I hope that we would stop fighting in future and just think positive because it is the only way to make this world a good place instead of calling names and fighting with each other for the name of religion, race or ethinicity.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| The Conspirator wrote: | | Did people in the US care when thousands of Japanese where killed when the US nukes Hiroshima and Nagasaki? |
Of course we did.
That was one of the hardest decisions we've had to make as a nation. (You really need to do research.) We knew what we were unleashing. But it worked out for the best (as we calculated it would) and saved countless lives on BOTH sides. The Japanese people before that point were 100% ready to die for their idiotic leader (whom they foolishly looked at as a God), and the US would have lost untold thousands defeating Japan.
Also keep in mind that, up until the Japanese attacked us, and even afterwards, the vast majority of Americans (I'm talking over 80%) were NOT IN FAVOR OF WAR.
The US was an Isolationist country at that time and only entered the war when it was absolutely and completely un-avoidable.
Honestly, Con, your rhetoric about the US (especially it's history) is getting old. You constantly bring up nukes and who used them half a century ago, with no regard for the real situation OR the real outcome. (i.e. go research how the Japanese feel about America today) |
Huh? You must be from an alternate dimension cause in this one they horded the Japanese Americans into concentration camps, destroying thousands of lives who's jobs businesses and even homes were no longer there for them and at that time there where many, many, racist cartoons and propaganda put out that depicted all Japanese ass looking exactly alike and all being against the US and the comic books at the time depicted only two versions of Japanese, buck toothed and fanged and all evil and no to mention all the racism and antisemitism at the time allot of it during the war against the Japanese.
So no they didn't care, they didn't care when they unlawfully and wrongly interred the Japanese in the US cause they were afraid of them all being spy's (despite the fact that the vast majority of them would have fought for the US even aginst Japan,) they didn't care when Tokyo was fire bombed and they didn't care when Japan was nuked and it wasn't hard, in fact it was quite easy, thats what they planed to do with the bombs when they where trying to invent them, in fact they planed to start with Germany, then nuke Japan but Germany had already serenaded.A very good answer indeed, Conspirator. 
The Conspirator, Adnan, what are you talking about? That's the US you're talking about. They're all angels and what ever they do is instantly forgiven. You can't point fingers at them like that. They don't have to sign the kyoto proptocol. They don't have to follow the geneva convention. Their people don't need to have the rights that a democratic people have a right to have. They just make sure that everyone else follows those conventions and regulations and have a democratic government as long as it is useful to them. If a democracy is against their own desires they bring down that democratic governement and put up a dictator or monarch. If that monarch comes against them it's time for a civilised democracy and human rights again. They don't have to follow any regulations that are meant for the benefit of humanity if it hinders their own progress. It's everyone else who has to follow them for better or worse. Otherwise they let those people know who has the most bloody nukes on earth right now.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| The Conspirator wrote: | | Did people in the US care when thousands of Japanese where killed when the US nukes Hiroshima and Nagasaki? |
Of course we did.
That was one of the hardest decisions we've had to make as a nation. (You really need to do research.) We knew what we were unleashing. But it worked out for the best (as we calculated it would) and saved countless lives on BOTH sides. The Japanese people before that point were 100% ready to die for their idiotic leader (whom they foolishly looked at as a God), and the US would have lost untold thousands defeating Japan.
|
i really wonder how many japan baby died in that bombing
probably thousands.
and
i really wonder again
if
someone asked to us president
"burn those japan babies yourself"
and you will win the war,
what will be the answer.Peace be upon u!
Islam is a growing religion, first of all Islam means Peace in the arabic language, Muhammad (pbuh) was the founder of islam. Islam has nothing to do with terrorism or suicide its totally against that.
The Quran is the holy book revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) by the angel Jabraeel. People say that terrorism revolves around the quran, but it doesnt, totally wrong, Islam is a system therfore we dont need Governments, Islam has got it all in Peace.
all i am saying is Brothers and sisters is that Islam is Misinterpretted by the Media,
Wassallam
| Muslim4life wrote: |
Islam has nothing to do with terrorism or suicide its totally against that.
|
Then why do leaders of AQ and other RIMs say it is? Perhaps the people of Islam should have a chat with their leaders and tell them to stop lying then, eh? There are references all over from people like OBL, Almond Dinner Jab, and many other high ranking Islamics that beg to differe with your assessment that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism.
| Quote: |
| Last month, American al-Qaeda operative Adam Gadahn issued a “convert-to-Islam-or-die message to U.S. President George W. Bush, Daniel Pipes, Michael Scheuer, Steve Emerson and Robert Spencer. This attempt at forced conversion to Islam followed the “conversion” at gunpoint of the two kidnapped Fox News reporters Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig. |
Long live Freud who said all religions are psychical disorders.
I thought this thread might have been closed because it wasn't a civillised tea party.
Why oh why do people keep banging on about how current terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. Can any Muslim here speak honestly and declare that if that is so, all terrorists who claim to be Islamic are not Muslims at all? I think not, because they would then feel like they were insulting a brother.
And as for peace, if you insult Jesus to the average Christian he might be a bit peeved, but to insult Muhammed often invites a death threat. So much peace.
| Muslim4life wrote: |
| first of all Islam means Peace in the arabic language, |
What does it mean in english? because when i hear 'Islam' i think about shit blowing up in the name of AllahI do not see the big deal. Islam has long surpassed my religion of Judaism, but it hasn't changed anything. If Islam surpasses Christianity, it will make no difference. Beliefs will be the same, however, in a sense, there might be a possibility that radical Muslims might gloat a little too much and it will go to their heads.
Indeed it will. The real battle is keeping religionists of any kind from forming big governments (and that includes George W Birdbrain). I don't want to live in a theocracy and that is precisely what Islam and 'The Rise of Islam' is after doing.
Europe went through the mill to become secular as democratic as possible and freethinking as possible. I'd hate the clock to be turned back because some people can't have thoughts outside of a group mentality.
| Billy Hill wrote: |
| Muslim4life wrote: | | first of all Islam means Peace in the arabic language, |
What does it mean in english? because when i hear 'Islam' i think about ****** blowing up in the name of Allah |
What do you think of when you hear Judaism? Do you thinks of a cabal of evil bankers that run the world? What do you think when you here Satanist? Do you think evil cult members that sacrifice children and animals?
Get some help. | The Conspirator wrote: |
| Get some help. |
how do you not get banned? are you Bondings kid brother?
you constantly insult people, call them liars, tell them to shut up, and on and on and on. you're an angry, nasty little boy in a grown up world and you fail to communicate rationally on any level. the hatred that spews from your foul mouth is consistant and deliberate and I often wonder why it is that you haven't been banned several times over for the way you treat people that don't accept your jibberish. you repeatedly try to bait people into getting mad and saying things that will get threads closed. you never answer questions unless you can dodge the truth because you're afraid and uninformed.
you're no better than those people that hold up signs reading "behead those who insult islam" Right, I think this is enough insulting for one topic.
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