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Outrage as Australian Leaders Tell Muslims to Fit In

 


S3nd K3ys
Patrick Goodenough, CNS News wrote:

Outrage as Australian Leaders Tell Muslims to Fit In
Patrick Goodenough, CNSNews.com International Editor, September 05, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - Australian Muslim representatives are voicing outrage at comments by the country's two top politicians, who urged immigrants from Islamic societies to fit in, learn English, treat women with respect, and shun extremism. An Islamic leader warned that the remarks could antagonize Muslims and lead to a repeat of incidents such as the rioting in a Sydney beachside suburb last December, when groups of youngsters -- described as having a Middle Eastern background -- fought with whites. Prime Minister John Howard late last week said migrants should integrate into the way of life in their new country but that a minority of Muslims was opposed to accepting Australia's values.

"Fully integrating means accepting Australian values -- it means learning as rapidly as you can the English language if you don't already speak it," he said in a radio interview. "People who come from societies where women are treated in an inferior fashion have got to learn very quickly that that is not the case in Australia." Howard's remarks drew a swift and critical response from Muslim leaders. Ameer Ali, chairman of an advisory group set up by the government to combat extremism in the 300,000-strong Muslim community, told a radio station the remarks could stoke violence. "We have already witnessed one incident in Sydney recently in Cronulla," he said in reference to last December's riots. "I don't want these scenes to be repeated because when you antagonize the younger generation ... they are bound to react."

Other Muslim community representatives said the line adopted by Howard was encouraging racial tension. But Howard stood by his position, denied he was singling out Muslims, and refused to apologize. "No matter what the culture of the country from which they came might have been, Australia requires women to be treated fairly and decently and in the same fashion as men," he told reporters later. "If any migrants coming to this country have a different view, they'd better get rid of that view pretty quickly." Howard said while "99 percent" of Muslims in Australia had integrated, it was "self-evident" that a small section was unwilling to do so. "It's up to all of us to try and overcome that resistance." He said the critical Muslim spokesmen were "missing the point."

Howard also addressed the issue in an op-ed piece published Saturday, in which he said those who reject integration viewed calls to integrate "as some kind of discrimination." "It is not. It is commonsense and, importantly, it is also a powerful symbol of a new migrant's willingness and enthusiasm about becoming an Australian." Howard's number two and possible successor, federal Treasurer Peter Costello, endorsed the prime minister's comments, and added some of his own. Costello said in a television interview Sunday that Australia's successful integration of migrants was attributable to "the attitude that when you come to Australia, whatever arguments you might have had in the old country, we start again and we start again with a common set of values and a common language."

He also said Islamic leaders should be more public and unequivocal in denouncing terrorism being perpetrated "under the cover of religion." They should also make it clear to prospective converts to Islam "that when you join this religion you do not join a radical political ideology," Costello added. His comments brought additional condemnation from Muslim representatives, who said they would only further alientate the community. Writing in Sydney's Sunday Telegraph, conservative columnist Piers Akerman denounced what he called "shrill cries of outrage from self-described leaders in Australia's Islamic community." In Australia, he wrote, as was the case in the U.S. and Britain, "Muslim organizations have deliberately installed themselves as permanent aliens and adapted a culture of constant carping about the majority, from whom they maintain their isolation with such bitter determination." Source

Heavens to betsy, antagonize a mohammenan, moslem or whatever, just 'cuz they act like neurotic idiots? The very idea. Treat women with dignity, respect and equality? Use a common language? Denounce terrorism? Although we know who the animals are, this makes me wonder who's pokin' who with the sharp stick. Howard and Costello make me proud. They also make me wish we had leaders with such courage.
LukeakaDanish
Usually im majorly against saying anything that might tense the muslim/non-muslim relations...

However i think the Australian leaders have caught it spot on.

I doubt anyone can come up with a logical reason why muslims shouldnt have to treat women propperly.

Also learning english is a reasonable demand - it shows that they actually want to give something back to the society they are moving to.

"shun extremism"...that can be read in two ways:

1: dont be terrorists...i think we all agree thats a reasonable demand...Wink

2: dont believe very strongly in your religion...i dont think that should be disallowed - that makes people mad, and how can you stop a person believing his god fully - its just not something that can be controlled (or should be in my oppinion)

As to your comments s3nd k3ys:

I do actually, for once, agree with your comment HOWEVER i dont like the way you put it

Frankly - that kind of wording is what starts the problems - the australians where clever enough to say it without being agreesive towards muslims themselves - only to certain aspects of their lives. Saying they are animals is ridiculous - i have several muslim friends and if you wish to call them animals then your a racist. - infact, dont call anyone animals - because were all humans (yes, even the terrorists are actually human!) and no one likes the degredation of being called an animal.
Nameless
I'm from Australia... and I say good 'ol Johnny Howard deserves a good 'ol boot up the behind. I have no problems with muslims, or any race/religion coming into Australia and living with their own culture. Ordering people to become 'more Australain' is a complete load of bull****. Sure, some of the things muslims commonly act I personally believe is not the right thing, but if they want to do so - and as long as everybody agrees with it (if women don't WANT to wear the clothing for example, they shouldn't be forced to, but if they do, who cares?) there's no problem. Plus, a large majority of things they're so 'well known' for doing are the terrorists only, and there's just as many evil Australians, if not more, than evil muslims. The whole thing is a load of crap. As long as people are following the laws, they can do what they want. And if the government doesn't like that they don't have total control, screw them. [/end heavily biased rant]

So, summarise, I am strongly against forcing immigrants to conform to anything that isn't a legal requirement. Multiculturism is a Good Thing(tm).
Soulfire
Quote:
treat women with respect, and shun extremism


Quote:
So, summarise, I am strongly against forcing immigrants to conform to anything that isn't a legal requirement. Multiculturism is a Good Thing(tm).


Now wait a second, does this mean you support the degredation of women and terrorism? I'm a bit confused now.

Anyways, I totally agree. If Muslims want to desrespect and mistreat women, do it in a country that supports it, not a country that frowns upon it.
Bondings
Soulfire wrote:
Anyways, I totally agree. If Muslims want to desrespect and mistreat women, do it in a country that supports it, not a country that frowns upon it.

I wouldn't advise anyone to disrespect and mistreat women, not even in a country that supports it. Wink
bangala
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Heavens to betsy, antagonize a mohammenan, moslem or whatever, just 'cuz they act like neurotic idiots? The very idea. Treat women with dignity, respect and equality? Use a common language? Denounce terrorism? Although we know who the animals are, this makes me wonder who's pokin' who with the sharp stick. Howard and Costello make me proud. They also make me wish we had leaders with such courage.

I'm highliting part of your quoted article:
Quote:
Howard said while "99 percent" of Muslims in Australia had integrated, it was "self-evident" that a small section was unwilling to do so.

So if 99% of Muslims are ok, is it a proper English to ask all Muslims to behave well? Do you expect 100% of all other non-Moslim Australians to be fully integrated in Australia? If your Jewish neighbor rob your house, should you ask all Jews in the country to stop robbing houses? This looks straight forward except for those who
Quote:
act like neurotic idiots


Soulfire wrote:

Quote:
treat women with respect, and shun extremism

Quote:
So, summarise, I am strongly against forcing immigrants to conform to anything that isn't a legal requirement. Multiculturism is a Good Thing(tm).

Now wait a second, does this mean you support the degredation of women and terrorism? I'm a bit confused now.

You're confused? Nameless said,
Quote:
that isn't a legal requirement

Are you still confused?
S3nd K3ys
Quote:
So if 99% of Muslims are ok


No.

I expect 100% of ANY immigrent to do it. Learn the language and culture, and use it when appropriate. Use what you want in your neighborhood, but I don't want to pay for ballots and street signs to be in spanish or arabic or any ****ing other language. There are rules to become a citizen, respect them. It's not that hard. Else don't come.

Soulfire wrote:
Anyways, I totally agree. If Muslims want to desrespect and mistreat women, do it in a country that supports it, not a country that frowns upon it.


Quote:
Now wait a second, does this mean you support the degredation of women and terrorism? I'm a bit confused now.


Soulfire, what would you do with the women there who don't want to be there? Tell them "Too bad so sad"? Sounds like you're condoning it as well. I am suprised. Disapointed, but suprised.

*/me looks at quote in sig, looks at soulfire's quote...
paul_indo
bangala wrote
Quote:
You're confused? Nameless said,

Quote:
that isn't a legal requirement

Are you still confused?


OK let's move back a step.

Nameless wrote
Quote:
So, summarise, I am strongly against forcing immigrants to conform to anything that isn't a legal requirement. Multiculturism is a Good Thing(tm).


Now the point here is this. Who is trying to force immigrants to do anything that isn't a legal requirement?

Let's go back another step.

S3nd K3ys wrote quoting CNS NEWS .COM
Quote:

learn English, treat women with respect, and shun extremism. An Islamic leader warned that the remarks could antagonize Muslims

"People who come from societies where women are treated in an inferior fashion have got to learn very quickly that that is not the case in Australia."


Now here's my point.

Learning English is not, I believe a legal requirment for all immigrants, although I may be wrong.

Treating women with respect is a legal requirment.
Sexual discrimination is a criminal offence under Australian law.
Shunning extremism? Well yes I believe extremist religious views to the point where other religions or cultures are abused or denigrated or inciting violence against them is also an offence under Australian law.

So I think that Soulfire's confusion is justified and that Nameless should indeed remain that way as he seems to be talking a lot of the proverbial to me.

note "proverbial" = aussie slang for what comes out of the back of caows.
nopaniers
It's not just muslims who complained about his comments. Here's what the Age said about his comments:
Quote:
History has seen the scapegoating of religious minorities. Christians and Jews have suffered from political assault in the past. Today it is the turn of the Muslims, in Australia.... Nearly two millenniums later, the Prime Minister of Australia has chosen the same two tools of political propaganda used by Nero, concocting scapegoats and inciting moral panic to further his political interests. The targets this time are not Christians, but their Abrahamic brothers, the Muslims... Of greater concern is the blatant attempt to scapegoat Muslims and infuse mass panic into the community by using events not pertinent to our society.


I'm also Australian. I think that multiculturalism is the best thing to happen! Having travelled a lot recently I think it's one thing that makes Australia so cool. I love the fact that I can get quality food from all over the world, have different opinions and different people... and let's face it - we have cuter girls because of it.

Howard and worse, Costello, want the country to become like some type of 1950's Canberra. It's not going to get him very far because most of us have grown up with people from all around the world as our neighbors. A politician trying to manipulate public opinion isn't going to change that. He should take a trip to Brisbane or Melbourne, or just get away from the Lodge and his snobby Sydney suburbs. He's just out of touch.
nopaniers
Quote:
Learning English is not, I believe a legal requirment for all immigrants, although I may be wrong.


You're right. If it's not a legal requirement as far as I know, but it is effectively impossible to move to Australia if you don't. To become a permanent resident in Australia is extremely difficult and if you did not speak English you have no legal chance of qualifying. You need 120 points (and there are not many more than 120 points available... you get say 5 points for bringing in $100,000, around 50 for having a university degree). You can be a qualified translator, speak perfect English, has a Bachaelor's degree, Masters and PhD in science (all from Australian universities) and still cannot become a permanent resident.

In fact, Amanda Vanstone, the Australian immigration minister would not qualify to become a permanent resident in Australia if she applied. Our immigration system is screwed up.
nopaniers
Nameless wrote:
Plus, a large majority of things they're so 'well known' for doing are the terrorists only, and there's just as many evil Australians, if not more, than evil muslims. The whole thing is a load of crap. As long as people are following the laws, they can do what they want. And if the government doesn't like that they don't have total control, screw them.


So true.
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