Is the United Nations going the League of Nations way? The UN is turning out to be a joke? I mean its quick on sanctions when it concerns third world or developing countries but just look how long it took to convince Israel to declare cease fire. And even after that Israel is routinely ignoring the norms of truce. I don't blame Israel here though, it does whatever it can to protect its citizens but I'm questioning the UN's working. Isn't the UN supposed to be above all nations but now it seems its the play thing of a handful of nations. The Unifils are called a joke by all nations. What power does the UN retain in the face of all this. If the nations don't have anything to question their actions what is going to stop anarchy from prevailing. Isn't it about time much greater power was granted to the UN to make it stand above ALL nations of the world.
United Nations a failure?
| ainieas wrote: |
| Is the United Nations going the League of Nations way? The UN is turning out to be a joke? I mean its quick on sanctions when it concerns third world or developing countries but just look how long it took to convince Israel to declare cease fire. And even after that Israel is routinely ignoring the norms of truce. I don't blame Israel here though, it does whatever it can to protect its citizens but I'm questioning the UN's working. Isn't the UN supposed to be above all nations but now it seems its the play thing of a handful of nations. The Unifils are called a joke by all nations. What power does the UN retain in the face of all this. If the nations don't have anything to question their actions what is going to stop anarchy from prevailing. Isn't it about time much greater power was granted to the UN to make it stand above ALL nations of the world. |
Are you JUST NOW figuring this out?
Oh, I see, because you're somehow saying that the UN is actually FOR Israel? Is that why the UN has CONTINUALLY failed to protect Israel via allowing the ALREADY IMPOSED laws meant to disarm terrorists (hesbollah) in Lebanon?
Or do you see it because of their failure at just about everything else they've ever done?
Yes. The UN is (almost) a complete failure. But not so much for the reasons' you're claiming. What you're claiming is more propoganda than anything. Just as the propoganda hesbollah used to say Israel is to blame when Israel was just defending herself from an armed invasion across her border that killed her soldiers.
I think it can be summed up by Team America: World Police in the following quote from a U.N. officer:
The U.N. Inspector (Talking to Kim Jong-il, "president" of communist North Korea) says:
"You must let me search your palace for WMDs [weapons of mass destruction] or I will go back to the U.N. and write you a letter telling you how angry the U.N. is with you."
I think it has, for whatever reason (reasons aren't the issue I'm here to debate) become a joke. Iran, for instance, chooses not to listen to it... Perhaps other nations will soon follow suit.
The U.N. Inspector (Talking to Kim Jong-il, "president" of communist North Korea) says:
"You must let me search your palace for WMDs [weapons of mass destruction] or I will go back to the U.N. and write you a letter telling you how angry the U.N. is with you."
I think it has, for whatever reason (reasons aren't the issue I'm here to debate) become a joke. Iran, for instance, chooses not to listen to it... Perhaps other nations will soon follow suit.
To me, UN just nothing but a US spokesman. Mr Anan have nothing to do beyond US's say. Now a days it's completely a failure organization.
not yet but it could be soon!
I think that the latest threats from Syria that it would fire on UN troops in Lebanon if they come to close to the Syrian border is a pretty good indication of how much (or how LITTLE) people feel for the UN.
In general, rogue and bad-boy states feel free to ignore the UN which would indicate the level of their lack of respect or fear for this particular organization.
Interestingly enough, Adolf Hitler took Germany out of the League of Nations before building up his military and starting the Second World War. Now with countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea pretty much adopting a beligerent and disrespectful stance toward the UN, it's difficult to see how the UN can hold the world's respect or effectively implement its policies.
Any thinking person would long ago have realised that the UN looks good on paper, but effectively it's ineffective.
Where to next is difficult to say.
In general, rogue and bad-boy states feel free to ignore the UN which would indicate the level of their lack of respect or fear for this particular organization.
Interestingly enough, Adolf Hitler took Germany out of the League of Nations before building up his military and starting the Second World War. Now with countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea pretty much adopting a beligerent and disrespectful stance toward the UN, it's difficult to see how the UN can hold the world's respect or effectively implement its policies.
Any thinking person would long ago have realised that the UN looks good on paper, but effectively it's ineffective.
Where to next is difficult to say.
You've nailed it. The UN could just as well disband. They do nothing in the way of world peace keeping. Anyone could keep peace like the UN. Anyone that is a bit of a bully or terrorist...we'll just back off and beg them to listen. If they don't, then we'll try begging in a different way. Or, better yet, let's take their side and tell everyone to see why they are acting this way and try go say it's normal.
I think the UN should just fold and admit they accomplish nothing (without England or the U.S's leadership). Maybe they could go into the business of saving wildlife or something else.
By the way, your photos are kind of distracting. It took me several minutes of being mesmerized by the rotating babes until I find read the post. Good topic.
Thanks for bringing it up and keep it up.
I think the UN should just fold and admit they accomplish nothing (without England or the U.S's leadership). Maybe they could go into the business of saving wildlife or something else.
By the way, your photos are kind of distracting. It took me several minutes of being mesmerized by the rotating babes until I find read the post. Good topic.
Thanks for bringing it up and keep it up.
I think the UN started out to be a good idea and still is.
If you look at the accomplishments of the UN and compare them to the efforts of the world bank or some of the post-colonial countries in europe.
I would say the (especialy the 3.) world needs the UN.
If you look at the accomplishments of the UN and compare them to the efforts of the world bank or some of the post-colonial countries in europe.
I would say the (especialy the 3.) world needs the UN.
What has the UN been able to do about the Kashmir issue?
20 Indian Soldiers die in Kashmir everyday. What has the UN done about it. Has it been able to stop the terrorist camps in POK?
I accept UN is a failure. What can an organization do when, its own members run lacs of soldiers and spend billions on bombs?
20 Indian Soldiers die in Kashmir everyday. What has the UN done about it. Has it been able to stop the terrorist camps in POK?
I accept UN is a failure. What can an organization do when, its own members run lacs of soldiers and spend billions on bombs?
The point seems to be missed that the UN is only as strong as the membership allow it to be.
The US does not want a powerful UN because that would be a restraining influence on it's own foreign policy. The UN has no troops of it's own so can only act with the support of the member nations and their military assets. It is pointless to criticise the UN for inaction since it acts as directed by it's members. The US has consistently manipulated and undermined the UN for it's own political reasons.
Here is one example to support that assertion. Since 1970 the Russians have used the veto twice in the security council. Below is a list of the US vetos:
# 1972 Condemns Israel for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.
# 1973 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.
# 1976 Condemns Israel for attacking Lebanese civilians.
# 1976 Condemns Israel for building settlements in the occupied territories.
# 1976 Calls for self determination for the Palestinians.
# 1976 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians.
# 1978 Urges the permanent members (USA, USSR, UK, France, China) to insure United Nations decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security.
# 1978 Criticises the living conditions of the Palestinians.
# 1978 Condemns the Israeli human rights record in occupied territories.
# 1978 Calls for developed countries to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.
# 1979 Calls for an end to all military and nuclear collaboration with the apartheid South Africa.
# 1979 Strengthens the arms embargo against South Africa.
# 1979 Offers assistance to all the oppressed people of South Africa and their liberation movement.
# 1979 Concerns negotiations on disarmament and cessation of the nuclear arms race.
# 1979 Calls for the return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel.
# 1979 Demands that Israel desist from human rights violations.
# 1979 Requests a report on the living conditions of Palestinians in occupied Arab countries.
# 1979 Offers assistance to the Palestinian people.
# 1979 Discusses sovereignty over national resources in occupied Arab territories.
# 1979 Calls for protection of developing counties' exports.
# 1979 Calls for alternative approaches within the United Nations system for improving the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms.
# 1979 Opposes support for intervention in the internal or external affairs ofstates.
# 1979 For a United Nations Conference on Women.
# 1979 To include Palestinian women in the United Nations Conference on Women.
# 1979 Safeguards rights of developing countries in multinational trade negotiations.
# 1980 Requests Israel to return displaced persons.
# 1980 Condemns Israeli policy regarding the living conditions of the Palestinian people.
# 1980 Condemns Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories. 3 resolutions.
# 1980 Afirms the right of self determination for the Palestinians.
# 1980 Offers assistance to the oppressed people of South Africa and their national liberation movement.
# 1980 Attempts to establish a New International Economic Order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries and international economic co-operation.
# 1980 Endorses the Program of Action for Second Half of United Nations Decade for Women.
# 1980 Declaration of non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.
# 1980 Emphasises that the development of nations and individuals is a human right.
# 1980 Calls for the cessation of all nuclear test explosions.
# 1980 Calls for the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.
# 1981 Promotes co-operative movements in developing countries.
# 1981 Affirms the right of every state to choose its economic and social system in accord with the will of its people, without outside interference in whatever form it takes.
# 1981 Condemns activities of foreign economic interests in colonial territories.
# 1981 Calls for the cessation of all test explosions of nuclear weapons.
# 1981 Calls for action in support of measures to prevent nuclear war, curb the arms race and promote disarmament.
# 1981 Urges negotiations on prohibition of chemical and biological weapons.
# 1981 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development, etc are human rights.
# 1981 Condemns South Africa for attacks on neighbouring states, condemns apartheid and attempts to strengthen sanctions. 7 resolutions.
# 1981 Condemns an attempted coup by South Africa on the Seychelles.
# 1981 Condemns Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies, and the bombing of Iraq.
# 18 resolutions. 1982 Condemns the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
# 6 resolutions (1982 to 1983). 1982 Condemns the shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier.
# 1982 Calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Heights occupied in 1967.
# 1982 Condemns apartheid and calls for the cessation of economic aid to South Africa. 4 resolutions.
# 1982 Calls for the setting up of a World Charter for the protection of the ecology.
# 1982 Sets up a United Nations conference on succession of states in respect to state property, archives and debts.
# 1982 Nuclear test bans and negotiations and nuclear free outer space. 3 resolutions.
# 1982 Supports a new world information and communications order.
# 1982 Prohibition of chemical and bacteriological weapons.
# 1982 Development of international law.
# 1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment .
# 1982 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development are human rights.
# 1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment.
# 1982 Development of the energy resources of developing countries.
# 1983 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 15 resolutions.
# 1984 Condemns support of South Africa in its Namibian and other policies.
# 1984 International action to eliminate apartheid.
# 1984 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
# 1984 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 18 resolutions.
# 1985 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
# 1985 Condemns Israel for using excessive force in the occupied territories.
# 1985 Resolutions about cooperation, human rights, trade and development. 3 resolutions.
# 1985 Measures to be taken against Nazi, Fascist and neo-Fascist activities .
# 1986 Calls on all governments (including the USA) to observe international law.
# 1986 Imposes economic and military sanctions against South Africa.
# 1986 Condemns Israel for its actions against Lebanese civilians.
# 1986 Calls on Israel to respect Muslim holy places.
# 1986 Condemns Israel for sky-jacking a Libyan airliner.
# 1986 Resolutions about cooperation, security, human rights, trade, media bias, the environment and development. 8 resolutions.
# 1987 Calls on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians.
# 1987 Calls on Israel to stop deporting Palestinians.
# 1987 Condemns Israel for its actions in Lebanon.
# 2 resolutions. 1987 Calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
# 1987 Cooperation between the United Nations and the League of Arab States.
# 1987 Calls for compliance in the International Court of Justice concerning military and paramilitary activities against Nicaragua and a call to end the trade embargo against Nicaragua. 2 resolutions.
# 1987 Measures to prevent international terrorism, study the underlying political and economic causes of terrorism, convene a conference to define terrorism and to differentiate it from the struggle of people from national liberation.
# 1987 Resolutions concerning journalism, international debt and trade. 3 resolutions.
# 1987 Opposition to the build up of weapons in space.
# 1987 Opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction.
# 1987 Opposition to nuclear testing. 2 resolutions.
# 1987 Proposal to set up South Atlantic "Zone of Peace".
# 1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories. 5 resolutions (1988 and 1989).
# 1989 Condemns USA invasion of Panama.
# 1989 Condemns USA troops for ransacking the residence of the Nicaraguan ambassador in Panama.
# 1989 Condemns USA support for the Contra army in Nicaragua.
# 1989 Condemns illegal USA embargo of Nicaragua.
# 1989 Opposing the acquisition of territory by force.
# 1989 Calling for a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict based on earlier UN resoltions.
# 1990 To send three UN Security Council observers to the occupied territories.
# 1995 Afirms that land in East Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.
# 1997 Calls on Israel to cease building settlements in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.
# 2 resolutions. 1999 Calls on the USA to end its trade embargo on Cuba.
# 8 resolutions (1992 to 1999). 2001 To send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
# 2001 To set up the International Criminal Court.
# 2002 To renew the peace keeping mission in Bosnia.
I think this illustrates my point.
Regards
Chris.
The US does not want a powerful UN because that would be a restraining influence on it's own foreign policy. The UN has no troops of it's own so can only act with the support of the member nations and their military assets. It is pointless to criticise the UN for inaction since it acts as directed by it's members. The US has consistently manipulated and undermined the UN for it's own political reasons.
Here is one example to support that assertion. Since 1970 the Russians have used the veto twice in the security council. Below is a list of the US vetos:
# 1972 Condemns Israel for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.
# 1973 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.
# 1976 Condemns Israel for attacking Lebanese civilians.
# 1976 Condemns Israel for building settlements in the occupied territories.
# 1976 Calls for self determination for the Palestinians.
# 1976 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians.
# 1978 Urges the permanent members (USA, USSR, UK, France, China) to insure United Nations decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security.
# 1978 Criticises the living conditions of the Palestinians.
# 1978 Condemns the Israeli human rights record in occupied territories.
# 1978 Calls for developed countries to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.
# 1979 Calls for an end to all military and nuclear collaboration with the apartheid South Africa.
# 1979 Strengthens the arms embargo against South Africa.
# 1979 Offers assistance to all the oppressed people of South Africa and their liberation movement.
# 1979 Concerns negotiations on disarmament and cessation of the nuclear arms race.
# 1979 Calls for the return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel.
# 1979 Demands that Israel desist from human rights violations.
# 1979 Requests a report on the living conditions of Palestinians in occupied Arab countries.
# 1979 Offers assistance to the Palestinian people.
# 1979 Discusses sovereignty over national resources in occupied Arab territories.
# 1979 Calls for protection of developing counties' exports.
# 1979 Calls for alternative approaches within the United Nations system for improving the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms.
# 1979 Opposes support for intervention in the internal or external affairs ofstates.
# 1979 For a United Nations Conference on Women.
# 1979 To include Palestinian women in the United Nations Conference on Women.
# 1979 Safeguards rights of developing countries in multinational trade negotiations.
# 1980 Requests Israel to return displaced persons.
# 1980 Condemns Israeli policy regarding the living conditions of the Palestinian people.
# 1980 Condemns Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories. 3 resolutions.
# 1980 Afirms the right of self determination for the Palestinians.
# 1980 Offers assistance to the oppressed people of South Africa and their national liberation movement.
# 1980 Attempts to establish a New International Economic Order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries and international economic co-operation.
# 1980 Endorses the Program of Action for Second Half of United Nations Decade for Women.
# 1980 Declaration of non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.
# 1980 Emphasises that the development of nations and individuals is a human right.
# 1980 Calls for the cessation of all nuclear test explosions.
# 1980 Calls for the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.
# 1981 Promotes co-operative movements in developing countries.
# 1981 Affirms the right of every state to choose its economic and social system in accord with the will of its people, without outside interference in whatever form it takes.
# 1981 Condemns activities of foreign economic interests in colonial territories.
# 1981 Calls for the cessation of all test explosions of nuclear weapons.
# 1981 Calls for action in support of measures to prevent nuclear war, curb the arms race and promote disarmament.
# 1981 Urges negotiations on prohibition of chemical and biological weapons.
# 1981 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development, etc are human rights.
# 1981 Condemns South Africa for attacks on neighbouring states, condemns apartheid and attempts to strengthen sanctions. 7 resolutions.
# 1981 Condemns an attempted coup by South Africa on the Seychelles.
# 1981 Condemns Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies, and the bombing of Iraq.
# 18 resolutions. 1982 Condemns the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
# 6 resolutions (1982 to 1983). 1982 Condemns the shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier.
# 1982 Calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Heights occupied in 1967.
# 1982 Condemns apartheid and calls for the cessation of economic aid to South Africa. 4 resolutions.
# 1982 Calls for the setting up of a World Charter for the protection of the ecology.
# 1982 Sets up a United Nations conference on succession of states in respect to state property, archives and debts.
# 1982 Nuclear test bans and negotiations and nuclear free outer space. 3 resolutions.
# 1982 Supports a new world information and communications order.
# 1982 Prohibition of chemical and bacteriological weapons.
# 1982 Development of international law.
# 1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment .
# 1982 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development are human rights.
# 1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment.
# 1982 Development of the energy resources of developing countries.
# 1983 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 15 resolutions.
# 1984 Condemns support of South Africa in its Namibian and other policies.
# 1984 International action to eliminate apartheid.
# 1984 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
# 1984 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 18 resolutions.
# 1985 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
# 1985 Condemns Israel for using excessive force in the occupied territories.
# 1985 Resolutions about cooperation, human rights, trade and development. 3 resolutions.
# 1985 Measures to be taken against Nazi, Fascist and neo-Fascist activities .
# 1986 Calls on all governments (including the USA) to observe international law.
# 1986 Imposes economic and military sanctions against South Africa.
# 1986 Condemns Israel for its actions against Lebanese civilians.
# 1986 Calls on Israel to respect Muslim holy places.
# 1986 Condemns Israel for sky-jacking a Libyan airliner.
# 1986 Resolutions about cooperation, security, human rights, trade, media bias, the environment and development. 8 resolutions.
# 1987 Calls on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians.
# 1987 Calls on Israel to stop deporting Palestinians.
# 1987 Condemns Israel for its actions in Lebanon.
# 2 resolutions. 1987 Calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
# 1987 Cooperation between the United Nations and the League of Arab States.
# 1987 Calls for compliance in the International Court of Justice concerning military and paramilitary activities against Nicaragua and a call to end the trade embargo against Nicaragua. 2 resolutions.
# 1987 Measures to prevent international terrorism, study the underlying political and economic causes of terrorism, convene a conference to define terrorism and to differentiate it from the struggle of people from national liberation.
# 1987 Resolutions concerning journalism, international debt and trade. 3 resolutions.
# 1987 Opposition to the build up of weapons in space.
# 1987 Opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction.
# 1987 Opposition to nuclear testing. 2 resolutions.
# 1987 Proposal to set up South Atlantic "Zone of Peace".
# 1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories. 5 resolutions (1988 and 1989).
# 1989 Condemns USA invasion of Panama.
# 1989 Condemns USA troops for ransacking the residence of the Nicaraguan ambassador in Panama.
# 1989 Condemns USA support for the Contra army in Nicaragua.
# 1989 Condemns illegal USA embargo of Nicaragua.
# 1989 Opposing the acquisition of territory by force.
# 1989 Calling for a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict based on earlier UN resoltions.
# 1990 To send three UN Security Council observers to the occupied territories.
# 1995 Afirms that land in East Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.
# 1997 Calls on Israel to cease building settlements in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.
# 2 resolutions. 1999 Calls on the USA to end its trade embargo on Cuba.
# 8 resolutions (1992 to 1999). 2001 To send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
# 2001 To set up the International Criminal Court.
# 2002 To renew the peace keeping mission in Bosnia.
I think this illustrates my point.
Regards
Chris.
But doesnt anyone think we need to empower the UN. All countries need a big brother. Let UN have its pick from the elite military units and make them answerable to the UN only. Free the workers of the UN from all tags of nationality. Make them answerable only to the UN. And when it comes to rogue nations set them free, I mean the UN. Whatever action they want. No matter what country it is. Because in the end rich/poor countries all have the same requirements. Take out their fuel supplies or something and watch they economy fall to its knees. Will definitely stop countries from abetting terrorists or acting like terrorists.
| ainieas wrote: |
| But doesnt anyone think we need to empower the UN. All countries need a big brother. Let UN have its pick from the elite military units and make them answerable to the UN only. Free the workers of the UN from all tags of nationality. Make them answerable only to the UN. And when it comes to rogue nations set them free, I mean the UN. Whatever action they want. No matter what country it is. Because in the end rich/poor countries all have the same requirements. Take out their fuel supplies or something and watch they economy fall to its knees. Will definitely stop countries from abetting terrorists or acting like terrorists. |
LOL...nice idea but can you really see the US agreeing to any of those suggestions. I suspect even mentioning them would bring cries of Loonatic and Commie.
The US opts out of anything it likes (treaties on torture, the Geneva convention, global warming treaties) so it is hardly likely to allow the UN to gain more power.
Here in the UK we have just extradited British citizens to the US for trial over some financial case. Can we extradite US citizens here ? Guess!
Can US troops be tried in an international court like the rest of the world military forces ? Guess!
Who defines what terrorism and torture mean ? The UN ? Nope. Guess !
I admire your idealism and wish it were a nicer world so that we could try to implement it. Unfortunately it isn't and we can't.
Best wishes
Chris
You're quite late to note it. UN is defenitely a dummy organization as far as it's intentions are concerned.
| desertwind wrote: |
| You're quite late to note it. UN is defenitely a dummy organization as far as it's intentions are concerned. |
As already stated, the UN cannot act without member state approval and support since it has no resources/troops of it's own. I really don't understand why people spend so much time criticising the UN. It is the equivalent of criticising a car for being late when it's driver is still in bed....doesn't really make any sense.
Chris
I agree Chris. This all seems like a pointless. People critisize for not fixing this or that, but in reality it comes down to the will of it's member states. Although it is true (as the original post pointed out) that the UN is dominated by the victors in WW2 who have a disproportionate influence.
Personally I would like to see direct elections for the UN - one person, one vote. Of course that will never happen... but I'd still like to see it.
Personally I would like to see direct elections for the UN - one person, one vote. Of course that will never happen... but I'd still like to see it.
| nopaniers wrote: |
| I agree Chris. This all seems like a pointless. People critisize for not fixing this or that, but in reality it comes down to the will of it's member states. Although it is true (as the original post pointed out) that the UN is dominated by the victors in WW2 who have a disproportionate influence.
Personally I would like to see direct elections for the UN - one person, one vote. Of course that will never happen... but I'd still like to see it. |
A good first step would be very very simple...abolish the veto.
Chris.
Definitely! Now that is a reform I would like to see...
| nopaniers wrote: |
| Definitely! Now that is a reform I would like to see... |
Yeah, on the surface that seems like a good idea. I wonder what negative repercussions it might have.
| HoboPelican wrote: | ||
Yeah, on the surface that seems like a good idea. I wonder what negative repercussions it might have. |
It would stop the US vetoing otherwise unanimous motions. That is about the only downside that I can see...The record of past vetos is available if you scan around - I posted the US record which is by far the worst - and I think you will find that they are pretty much all based on national self-interest at the expense of wider good.
If you find any counter examples I'll be happy to reconsider :-)
Chris
| Bikerman wrote: |
|
It would stop the US vetoing otherwise unanimous motions. That is about the only downside that I can see...The record of past vetos is available if you scan around - I posted the US record which is by far the worst - and I think you will find that they are pretty much all based on national self-interest at the expense of wider good. If you find any counter examples I'll be happy to reconsider 
Chris |
I'm not disagreeing with you at all, B-man. I know it is a big problem and the US is an major abuser of this . But I'm just not gonna jump on the bandwagon completely until I see if others can post a downside. Basically, I'm encouraging further comment to see if I'm missing something.
| HoboPelican wrote: |
|
I'm not disagreeing with you at all, B-man. I know it is a big problem and the US is an major abuser of this . But I'm just not gonna jump on the bandwagon completely until I see if others can post a downside. Basically, I'm encouraging further comment to see if I'm missing something. |
Hey, no problem....I really don't know the answers and I could well be missing something (I'm only sarcastic when I spot a creationist lurking in the tall grass ready to pounce on passing prey, otherwise I'm normally fairly straight-up in my meanings :-)
Cheers
Chris
Unfortunately, I doubt ever happen. It would be vetoed. Once a country has power like that, it is very difficult to get them to give it up. The permanent members of the security council aren't very representative of the world. Japan (although admittedly they are one of the non-permanent members at the moment), Germany and India aren't permanent members. There's no permanent member from the Middle East, Africa, Australia or South America, although there are elected members.
Perhaps the only way to do it is to gradually increase the powers of every other country, rather than decrease the powers of the permanent members. Add more pemanent members (India, the world's largest democracy seems like it deserves this for example) and slowly make it more representative.
Perhaps the only way to do it is to gradually increase the powers of every other country, rather than decrease the powers of the permanent members. Add more pemanent members (India, the world's largest democracy seems like it deserves this for example) and slowly make it more representative.
| nopaniers wrote: |
|
Perhaps the only way to do it is to gradually increase the powers of every other country, rather than decrease the powers of the permanent members. Add more pemanent members (India, the world's largest democracy seems like it deserves this for example) and slowly make it more representative. |
I'm even more pessimistic to be honest.
The US made their intentions pretty clear when they appointed Bolton to the UN - holding action with reform to ensure US autonomy and, if necessary wreck it.
Regards
Chris
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