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Emo does not exist.






does emo exist?
yes
62%
 62%  [ 25 ]
no
37%
 37%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 40

blackheart
I am just about sick of reading through all the "emo this" "emo that" "emo pathetic" "emo sucks" posts on this forum. So here's the story straight:

Some moron on MTV used the term incorrectly, and started one of the most annoying and infamous music terminology misconceptions in history.

Which brings me to the fact that:

Most importantly, the word “emo” is not short for “emotional”.

Emotive Hardcore was a mid eighties through early nineties sub-genre of hardcore. As far as I’m aware Rites of Spring started it, soon followed by Indian Summer, then Saetia, Funeral Diner, A Day In Black And White, Hot Cross, etcetera.

Holier-than-thou hardcore punk rawkers considered the genre too soft to be either hardcore or punk, and “Emo” became a bit of a derogative term for genuine listeners of Emotive Hardcore. No-one called themselves “Emo” - it wasn't cool, and to the masses it wasn't cool to think said people were uncool.

Now, how-ever, the genre (in a large-scale genre sense) has died out.

“Emo” does not represent kids in chequered pants, DIY black side-fringed hair and thick glasses with a depressive suicidal outlook on life. Nor does it represent whiny vocalists or kill-me-my-girl-friend-just-left-me lyrics written around “beautiful” rock.
All those kiddies listening to Panic! and Dashboard and Blink and what-ever the heck else, aren’t listening to emo. I won’t even start to try and give those bands a genre – because it’s all music politics – but they sure as heck aren’t Emotive Hardcore.


Just - why even "invent" the label for people anyway? Who cares?

If you ever meet anyone who's "behaviour" you don't agree with, then you're under no obligation to associate or socialise with them.

So leave 'em alone, labels are for soupcans.
Wahwah Man
eh. it still sucks
Pablo Diablo
Emo excists. Go listen to Death Cab for Cutie's album "Transatlanticism". This album is a Emo masterpeice.
blackheart
Pablo Diablo wrote:
Emo excists. Go listen to Death Cab for Cutie's album "Transatlanticism". This album is a Emo masterpeice.


Again, this is mis-conception of the genre. Go listen to Rites of Spring - anything by Rites of Spring - and compare it to Deathcab for Cutie. You can hear the difference.

Transatlanticism may be a masterpiece, but it is not Emotive Hardcore.

I don't know what to "label" it, and it's basically the same confusion that lead to people mis-using the term "Emo" in the first place. Some-one didn't know what emo was, and used it to describe bands like deathcab because I guess they thought it sounded better than melodic-bubble-gum pop-rock or melodic pop-rock or what-ever.
TarsajumaClan
Why all this hating on the emos lol. The do enough hating on themselves by definition.
blackheart
TarsajumaClan wrote:
Why all this hating on the emos lol. The do enough hating on themselves by definition.


Confused Read my post lol. The whole point is that "Emo" is not a bunch of depressant kids, but a genre of music that died out 10 years ago.
WeAlreadyHaveACult
What about Sunny Day Real Estate??
I don't think EMO exists. But, words are fluid.
So, now it does.

Now EMO does mean those kids in checked pants and whiny stuff like Alkaline Trio even. But Death Cab for Cutie?
They aren't and never even were emo.
Even all of those suicidal kids can call something more 'emo' EMO.
standready
blackheart wrote:

labels are for soupcans.

I agree. You either like or you don't. Just because I mainly listen to one genre, does not mean I hate all others. I listen to a little bit of almost eveything.
blackheart
WeAlreadyHaveACult wrote:
What about Sunny Day Real Estate??
I don't think EMO exists. But, words are fluid.
So, now it does.

Now EMO does mean those kids in checked pants and whiny stuff like Alkaline Trio even. But Death Cab for Cutie?
They aren't and never even were emo.
Even all of those suicidal kids can call something more 'emo' EMO.


I understand what you mean, slang is slang, but...

In ten years, if the word "EMO" was generally thought to mean justin timberlake and britney spears, or mozart, or ac/dc, or 50cent - would that make it right by definition?
davidav87
Obviously the definition has changed.
That's not a crime.
What Emo means for you is different than what it means for the rest of the universe who that advanced.
Definitions are always changing!
Tac-Tics
Genres simply don't exist. When you label music with words, you're only serving to confuse others and cloud your meaning.

There are only two kinds of music. Music you like. And music you don't like.
There is nothing more to it than that.
HoboPelican
davidav87 wrote:
Obviously the definition has changed.
That's not a crime.
What Emo means for you is different than what it means for the rest of the universe who that advanced.
Definitions are always changing!


Sure definitions change, but when they change so quickly and so spastically does the word really have a meaning? From what I've seen here the only real definition (and it is really more of a connotation), is that EMO means only "music I don't like".

Music pundits make this crap up to make themselves sound more legit and we fall for it. Typically a label is created for a sound that applies to a handful of bands and then it gets stretched to cover a large group that it really doesn't apply to. Look at all the dissent as to what bands are EMO, punk, post-grunge, etc. If there is no consensus as to what goes where, what is the point of labeling it?
</rant>
Laughing
It's music. discuss the song, not the label.
shinnoyami
i copletely agree with you blackheart. i actually read a similar article on a myspace group. I know use it as an argument whenever someone calls me 'emo' or if they even just use the term. and they just shut up.
missmurder
Emo is short for emotion. Is there is any song or artist you think doesnt have emotion in their music? Well obviously. Emo is EVERYTHING! So the whole "emo" thing is super stupid, and I voted no since it sorta still goes together...
blackheart
missmurder wrote:
Emo is short for emotion. Is there is any song or artist you think doesnt have emotion in their music? Well obviously. Emo is EVERYTHING! So the whole "emo" thing is super stupid, and I voted no since it sorta still goes together...


The whole point (or at least a big part) of my article was that "emo" does not simply mean "emotional" (thereby identifiable to any form of music).
"Emo" is short for "emotive hardcore", a specific subgenre of hard core from late eighties to early nineties.
Please read a topic before replying. Wink
jds10912
for those of you who still think that emo bands include hawthorne heights and fall out boy, please visit www.youdontknowemo.tk
missmurder
blackheart wrote:
missmurder wrote:
Emo is short for emotion. Is there is any song or artist you think doesnt have emotion in their music? Well obviously. Emo is EVERYTHING! So the whole "emo" thing is super stupid, and I voted no since it sorta still goes together...


The whole point (or at least a big part) of my article was that "emo" does not simply mean "emotional" (thereby identifiable to any form of music).
"Emo" is short for "emotive hardcore", a specific subgenre of hard core from late eighties to early nineties.
Please read a topic before replying. Wink

Whatever dude Rolling Eyes
HoboPelican
missmurder wrote:

Whatever dude Rolling Eyes


Hmm, if you disagree, maybe you could post a little more thought on the issue. That short of a post would normally qualify as spam on this board. Instead, I'm encouraging you to actually post a thoughtful response.
missmurder
HoboPelican wrote:
missmurder wrote:

Whatever dude Rolling Eyes


Hmm, if you disagree, maybe you could post a little more thought on the issue. That short of a post would normally qualify as spam on this board. Instead, I'm encouraging you to actually post a thoughtful response.

Uhh I was saying whatever because I was annoyed with his response to me...I skimmed through his original post, voted, and then posted my message and I was told I pretty much didnt know what I was talking about. I didnt want to start an argument...am I not allowed an opinion?
HoboPelican
missmurder wrote:
HoboPelican wrote:
missmurder wrote:

Whatever dude Rolling Eyes


Hmm, if you disagree, maybe you could post a little more thought on the issue. That short of a post would normally qualify as spam on this board. Instead, I'm encouraging you to actually post a thoughtful response.

Uhh I was saying whatever because I was annoyed with his response to me...I skimmed through his original post, voted, and then posted my message and I was told I pretty much didnt know what I was talking about. I didnt want to start an argument...am I not allowed an opinion?


Sure, absolutely, that's why I encouraged you to elaborate. But the rules of this forum define spam as short posts that do not advance the discussion. I was trying to gently point out that your two word post was not up to the standards of the board.

I guess next time I'll just remove it and issue an offical warning. Thanks for setting me straight. Wink

Now, let's get back to Emo. Very Happy
Josso
I'd like to comment on the Emo society even though it is a little off topic. Apparently according to many sources Emo is the new Goth, although how is this so seeing that I pretty much hate every Emo I ever talk to and I had an ammount of respect for Goth's. They seem to be different things in our local enviroment! but everyone seems to think the name has just changed. Has Goth been drowned out by any chance? or have they actually merged together. The whole things rather confusing.
Marston
As I've stated before, Husker Du was (technically) the first emo band.

Here's a quote from wikipedia.org:
Quote:
In its original incarnation, the term emo was used to describe the music of the mid-1980s Washington, DC scene and its associated bands. In later years, the term emocore, short for "emotional hardcore", was also used to describe the DC scene and some of the regional scenes that spawned from it. The term emo was derived from the fact that, on occasion, members of a band would become spontaneously and strongly emotional during performances. The most recognizable names of the period included Rites of Spring, Embrace, One Last Wish, Beefeater, Gray Matter, Fire Party, and, slightly later, Moss Icon. The first wave of emo began to fade after the breakups of most of the involved bands in the early 1990s.


(I really don't have anything else to say about this subject, as I am incapable of forming my own opinions.)

Although, I'm not sure how you can claim that emo doesn't exist. I'm quite sure that Emo is short for Emotional Hardcore (or Emotive Hardcore, they're basically synonymous.), and emotional hardcore (ibid) is a genre of music, albeit a dead one. So technically it did exist. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that Ancient egyptians don't exist: technically, they exist because at one time, they were alive and well, but "ancient" prefixation allows you to argue that technically they don't exist because there are no ancient egyptians living anymore (in any meaningful sense- modern day egyptians will probably one day be consider ancient, but I digress.)


Hmm, looks like I can form opinions.
blackheart
Marston wrote:
As I've stated before, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCsker_D%C3%BC#Influence]Husker Du was (technically) the first emo band.

Here's a quote from wikipedia.org ... music of the mid-1980s .... early 1990s.

tantamount to saying that Ancient egyptians don't exist ... digress.)


Nothing in wikipedia contradicted me. I didn't say my list of bands was all inclusive Wink.
{1984's Zen Arcade was defintely a big step forward (lol, to back depending how you look at it) from hardcore (thrash punk hardcore - depending how you look at it).}

Also, they didn't contradict my time-frame. late/mid eighties to early nineties. Although ZA was 94, it took a couple years for a full music movement to move in.

And ancient egyptians don't exist anymore. I didn't say that emo didn't exist, I said that it doesn't exist. Just like you can't say ancient egyptians didn't exist, but can can say that ancient egyptians don't exist.

Josso wrote:
I'd like to comment on the Emo society even though it is a little off topic. Apparently according to many sources Emo is the new Goth, although how is this so seeing that I pretty much hate every Emo I ever talk to and I had an ammount of respect for Goth's. They seem to be different things in our local enviroment! but everyone seems to think the name has just changed. Has Goth been drowned out by any chance? or have they actually merged together. The whole things rather confusing.


Emotive Hardcore and goth have not merged.

I don't know much about "goth", but I do have respect for the genuine goths out there - the one's that are true to them selves, and don't just treat being gothic as an image... and treat it almost as a religion. And it certainly isn't even close to a genre of music. In fact, or all the people-stereotypes, even the stereotype would have the least musical genre connotation/watever attached to it.
Goth has not been drowned out either, they exist, they just don't ****** themselves in the media.

Again, Please read through my article. I know you said your reply was off-topic, but it was also indicative of not reading what I had to say in the first place.

And in regards to your "hate" of "emo's", most prejudice if born of ignorance. I know alot of people who regard themselves one of the "modern emo's", and although I don't understand their choice/etcetera, I don't hate them. I'm friends with a tonne of "them".
Some are annoying, but that can be said of any denomination/minority/etcetera.
Marston
blackheart wrote:
Marston wrote:
As I've stated before, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCsker_D%C3%BC#Influence]Husker Du was (technically) the first emo band.

Here's a quote from wikipedia.org ... music of the mid-1980s .... early 1990s.

tantamount to saying that Ancient egyptians don't exist ... digress.)


Nothing in wikipedia contradicted me. I didn't say my list of bands was all inclusive Wink.
{1984's Zen Arcade was defintely a big step forward (lol, to back depending how you look at it) from hardcore (thrash punk hardcore - depending how you look at it).}

Also, they didn't contradict my time-frame. late/mid eighties to early nineties. Although ZA was 94, it took a couple years for a full music movement to move in.

And ancient egyptians don't exist anymore. I didn't say that emo didn't exist, I said that it doesn't exist. Just like you can't say ancient egyptians didn't exist, but can can say that ancient egyptians don't exist.
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.
Ozzy
I wish emo never started to exist in the first place..............
blackheart
Marston wrote:
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.

Okay. It's a mistake on their part, but one has to remember that wikipedia relies on user-submitted articles. Anyone could have written that.
holo256
i dont mean to sound like a n00b but WTF is an emo????
Marston
blackheart wrote:
Marston wrote:
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.

Okay. It's a mistake on their part, but one has to remember that wikipedia relies on user-submitted articles. Anyone could have written that.
But are you aware that emotive and emotional are virtually the same thing?
rightclickscott
holo256 wrote:
i dont mean to sound like a n00b but WTF is an emo????


It's were teenagers belt out how their girlfriends left them in whiny voices. This topic is about how the original term has been changed into something that wasn't emotive in the first place. In my own opinion, it's not the most pleasing form of music to my ears, but the only reason I went into this topic was because it's been around for a long time, and I wanted to read exactly what was here, the smart people who knew where the term originated from, and the people who insist that their MTV definition is all that's there anymore.
blackheart
Marston wrote:
blackheart wrote:
Marston wrote:
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.

Okay. It's a mistake on their part, but one has to remember that wikipedia relies on user-submitted articles. Anyone could have written that.
But are you aware that emotive and emotional are virtually the same thing?


Well, yes, but the term is emotive hardcore, if you let it slide to "emotional hardcore", then it slides to "emotional", and then it can be completely misconstrued.

Also, emotive is to evoke emotion (in this context all else is drowned out by a usually angry vocalist), whereas emotional is purely to be, well, emotional - which is everything.
anxiety1
emo dont have much to do with music these days

its faishon and trying to look like everyone else you no?
blackheart
anxiety1 wrote:
emo dont have much to do with music these days

its faishon and trying to look like everyone else you no?


In a more modern (and mindlessly incorrect Wink) sense, yes. That's what it's become slang for.
Dwyer17
In my town, emo kids get beat to a pulp.
blackheart
Dwyer17 wrote:
In my town, emo kids get beat to a pulp.


In my town, we've learnt there's no point beating what's already going to pulp-fiction itself.

But don't call them emo. To me, that misused label is like nails on a blackboard.
Dwyer17
Well sincere apologies
curnow
Quote:
“Emo” does not represent kids in chequered pants, DIY black side-fringed hair and thick glasses with a depressive suicidal outlook on life. Nor does it represent whiny vocalists or kill-me-my-girl-friend-just-left-me lyrics written around “beautiful” rock.
All those kiddies listening to Panic! and Dashboard and Blink and what-ever the heck else, aren’t listening to emo. I won’t even start to try and give those bands a genre – because it’s all music politics – but they sure as heck aren’t Emotive Hardcore.
you dont know how much i agree with you. in terms of general people they think the word means what it doesnt (side fringed stoogecidal kids) i personally think the stereotype and meaning of the word emo now has been started by scenesters who like to fukin wreck everything.
Dwyer17
Well hey quick question then.

Ok, so most people think that emo means those "gothic" like kids. Well, you know what I mean, I can't describe it any better. Right?
And some of you think that the term "emo" does not mean that at all.

Well can you consider this?
Gay mean happy right? Or homosexual.

Some people use the term "gay" to describe someone, not that he's really gay, but that he's a loser I suppose. Something like that.

I use the term gay to describe things alot. Like "this homework is gay" or "I hate that kid he's so gay".

Make sence? Well, just a thought.
tomahawk19
blackheart wrote:
Marston wrote:
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.

Okay. It's a mistake on their part, but one has to remember that wikipedia relies on user-submitted articles. Anyone could have written that.


So does that make you the one and only expert on the subject matter? Definitions evolve. Such as the unfortunate evolution of the term "Goth". Also on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths is information about the origins of Goth, from what I've understood, their origins have nothing to do with what people commonly refer to them as. They are not necessarily dressed in all black, sadistic, suicidal, etc. The same problems that wiccans run into is there is this tie between wicca and goth. The goths were a people basically like any other country, they were a kingdom however. Wiccans have been persecuted as well because people don't understand everything, and thanks to the media, definitions get changed, facts become fiction and vice versa. Now before you go and tell someone they are wrong, and if you are going to use something for reference, make sure you don't contradict that same source later claiming that

blackheart wrote:
Anyone could have written that.
blackheart
tomahawk19 wrote:
blackheart wrote:
Marston wrote:
Actually, wikipedia contradicted your allegationt that emo is short for emotive hardcore. That's really the only reason I posted the quote.

Okay. It's a mistake on their part, but one has to remember that wikipedia relies on user-submitted articles. Anyone could have written that.


So does that make you the one and only expert on the subject matter? Definitions evolve. Such as the unfortunate evolution of the term "Goth". Also on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths is information about the origins of Goth, from what I've understood, their origins have nothing to do with what people commonly refer to them as. They are not necessarily dressed in all black, sadistic, suicidal, etc. The same problems that wiccans run into is there is this tie between wicca and goth. The goths were a people basically like any other country, they were a kingdom however. Wiccans have been persecuted as well because people don't understand everything, and thanks to the media, definitions get changed, facts become fiction and vice versa. Now before you go and tell someone they are wrong, and if you are going to use something for reference, make sure you don't contradict that same source later claiming that

blackheart wrote:
Anyone could have written that.


I don't think I referred to wikipedia as a source. And I agree on gothic and wicca.

Emotive hardcore is hardly the only term to have evolved into incorrect terminology.
BroknHope
Theres a few flaws in what ppl say
First of all you cant use wikipedia as a reliable source bc anyone can add what they think is right and edit whatever
Second Emo was originally intended to be a classification of music (emotive hardcore) but, as some say, it didnt die out. the genre may have changed slightly to remain in existence and now most true emo music is underground
Although i do believe emo is not exaclty what it used to be, it still exists.
The people classified as emo are just people that the majority of other people decided look like they would listen to emo music
The only reason emos hate being called emo is because of the common misconception that emo is emotional... see what stupid mistakes on tv do... make fights over stupid things like labeling people and music
catscratches
Well, why shouldn't it exist?

Then metal doesn't exists since some band that usualy formed metal does not exist any longer.
And classical music does not exist since Mozart died.
And RnB, Punk, Folk music doesn't exist.

Emo exists, as well as classical music, RnB, Punk, Folk music and metal. It's a good genre.
jayrelle
Here in the Philippines, when you heard the word "emo" for them its fashion. I really hate seeing bunch of kids hanging around the streets wearing black shirt,jeans and "converse" shoes with their one sided hair! Uh! it makes me sick! I mean, I really don't care because its their life but they really had no idea what emo means... Shocked Shocked
frozenhead
Well, this topic is an informative one. Thanks for this sensible post blackheart. Wink
pudovkin
"Emo does not exist" = emo is a sci-fi product. hahahaha
catscratches
Everything depends on in which way you see it. Tables does not exist since they're not the same as what they were. Emo has evolved and changed, as well as everything else. Everything exists from one point of view, and nothing exists in another point of view. Internet does not exist, since it's not the same as it were yesterday.
dalewazhere
in a way, it exists. in another way, it doesn't. It depends on what kind of person you are. Alot of depressed people call theirselves "emo". it's not always quite that way. Most people who say they're emo say it to fit in. Rolling Eyes
Drawingguy
I think that there are a couple of ways to look at this.

In one sense, you can say that those old bands that you mentioned from the nineties and eighties were the true emo. In that sense, you would regard emo as an absolute, objective synonym. On the other hand, if you think of emo as a more subjective term, then you can define both the old music and the new music as 'emo'.

Think about the usage of words. If you were to look back, so many words have changed or lost their meanings ( http://www.write101.com/W.Tips261.htm ), so couldn't emo just be one of those words. Why can't emo, like all of those words, just completely change its meaning?

On another note, what, therefore, would you label the faux-emo bands? In no way am I a fan of them (I actually really, really dislike the generical format), but I just want to know what you would say. Disregarding the fact, of course, that labels are unnecessary.
dark_Pandemonium
Emo does exist, it started in the 80's with Rites of Spring (horrible band by the way). And it's a term for music that's full of emotion (hence the name emo). But I hate emo, and I hate the people who label everything as emo, because now everyone lables everything emo.
catscratches
It exists, it has changed though.
Quote:
And it's a term for music that's full of emotion (hence the name emo).
It's still there. Many bands... Senses Fail, Saves the Day, Thursday, Just Surrender, Silverstein and so on...

The king doesn't exist, since he doesn't rule th country anymore. (this statement could be both true and false, but I would say that it's false, here in Sweden we still have a king (yeah, Sweden sucks)).
fiendskull9
thank you so much for posting this

i have had this argument so many times with so many people

i've always disagreed with the label emo, but after getting some tapes from my uncle, which included Rites Of Spring - End on end, Swing Kids mix tape, and a Moss icon mix tape

this all turned me on to the whole genre of real emo

the one thing i do sort of disagree on is the statement that emo is dead

their are a few bands that keep the real genre alive (leaning towards husker du and fugazi)

bands like Transistor Transistor, La Quiete, Reversal Of (F*cking) Man, and the (now broken up) Wow, Owls!

but all in all, this article was a breath of fresh air
blackheart
Wow, I can't believe this topic is still getting replies.

To all those picking up on my statement that emo does not exist, then I should clarify I meant it's existence as a thriving genre. There will always be a band for any genre that's previously been around at any given time.

But emotice hardcore is no longer common knowledge, it's not at the height of the music scene, and it has relatively few known names that still play.


Someone used metal as a comparision - in fact, metal is the one genre that has not digressed, in my opinion, and is perhaps the worst genre to try and debunk my point with. New bands in similar if not identical styles to the groups that emerged in the seventies-eighties are still forming regularly. Older groups are still around. Big names in the industry produce quality music... puristically for metal.
Even the crap is listenable.
ca222
I get labelled at school as an emo, O_O

Which is only because I like rock music and my hair is black with a side fringe, but.. really?
Labelling is a sign of descrimnation is it not?
I am not emo ;(

I'm me!! :]
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