I'm curious as to this one topic. I have grown-up around other Christians, so the only time I have exposure to non-believers is when I witness to them.
So I am intrested in your opinion. If you do not believe in the Christian God, what do you think about:
a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze?
b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc.
God bless,
pampoon
And, let the flaming commence!
Seriously, one Christian to another, this is a very anti-Christian board, just so you are aware. However, it's hard to give comebacks to those questions, or answers that are remotely credible, but I'm sure many people will try.
I remember talking to someone about how the Bible told us that "God hung the earth in space" which represented it's suspension in space that we know of - long before anyone knew of it. Little things like that all throughout the Bible.
| Soulfire wrote: |
And, let the flaming commence!
Seriously, one Christian to another, this is a very anti-Christian board, just so you are aware. However, it's hard to give comebacks to those questions, or answers that are remotely credible, but I'm sure many people will try.
I remember talking to someone about how the Bible told us that "God hung the earth in space" which represented it's suspension in space that we know of - long before anyone knew of it. Little things like that all throughout the Bible. |
Actually, that is what I am hoping for. I see this forum as a great place to excersise my evangalism skills. Also, I know greatly of the things that go on in this forum. I have been her quite a while just viewing the forums, and this one is the best of all.
God bless,
pampoon | Quote: |
Actually, that is what I am hoping for. I see this forum as a great place to excersise my evangalism skills. Also, I know greatly of the things that go on in this forum. I have been her quite a while just viewing the forums, and this one is the best of all.
God bless,
pampoon |
I thought so too, but it's been going less than desireable for me. People call me close-minded, yet they completely deny even the possibility of God. To me, they are being more close-minded than I am.
Good luck and God bless. | Soulfire wrote: |
| Seriously, one Christian to another, this is a very anti-Christian board, just so you are aware. |
I wouldn't call it anti-christian, just people who will speak of that they believe in, and challenge other people's thoughts with what they believe. Its no more anti-christian than talking to people who aren't christian and don't spend thier time in the church.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| I remember talking to someone about how the Bible told us that "God hung the earth in space" which represented it's suspension in space that we know of - long before anyone knew of it. |
Once again I have to say I think you're reading our modern understanding into an ancient text without looking at the actual context of the text you plucked.
| pampoon wrote: |
| I see this forum as a great place to excersise my evangalism skills. |
Its sad to me that you don't see people, only exercise for you and your "evangalism skills", one of the pervasive problems in modern evangelism. Don't be suprised if you aren't very welcomed on here coming in with that mind set. | a_dubDesign wrote: |
| pampoon wrote: | | I see this forum as a great place to excersise my evangalism skills. |
Its sad to me that you don't see people, only exercise for you and your "evangalism skills", one of the pervasive problems in modern evangelism. Don't be suprised if you aren't very welcomed on here coming in with that mind set. |
I don't see you as just excersise. I was talking to soulfire about the fact that this experience will be a great way for me to excersise my evangalism skills. I am sorry if I made it seem that my view towards you is anything less than an equal and a brother/sister in God's kingdom.
I don't expect to be welcomed anywhere. I don't mind being turned away or persecuted. It gets my adrenaline pumping, my heart racing, and my mind thinking; plus I get to show my strength in God by not giving up.
God bless,
Pampoon | pampoon wrote: |
I'm curious as to this one topic. I have grown-up around other Christians, so the only time I have exposure to non-believers is when I witness to them.
So I am intrested in your opinion. If you do not believe in the Christian God, what do you think about:
a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze?
b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc.
God bless,
pampoon |
Ermm...I'll avoid any temptation to ridicule or flame this if I can.
Point A. This is explicable in many ways - the easiest is in terms of the 'anthropic principle'. Simply put, the Earth HAS to be where it is or we would not be here to discuss it. Although this is a circular sounding argument, it is a counter to the opposite fallacy which is frequently assumed. It is best illustrated with a little example. A professional golfer hits a ball. Now we know he will land the ball somewhere in, say, a 40 yard square. Within that square are, say, 10 million individual blades of grass. The golfer hits the ball and it lands on one of these blades of grass.
WOW, says the observer, the chances of that happening are 10 million to 1 against. This is a common fallacy, even in science, and is caused by judging the probability AFTER the event instead of before. This is applicable to the question about the Earth. Life would only evolve on a planet which was in this position so the fact that there is life is not very odd and certainly not evidence of some freekish coincidence that needs divine explanation.
Point B. A combination of delusion, natural remission, psychologically induced symptoms and myth. Case in point - Catholics in particular like to take sick people to Lourdes because of the reputation for miraculous healing. When proper analsysis is done, however, we find that the rates of cure from cancer are only 45% of that which one would expect without any intervention and resulting from natural remission. The same story can be told about most religious 'miracles', which is, of course, why in the modern scientific age the occurance of miracles has strangely dried up; wheras a couple of centuries ago miracles were almost daily occurances.
Best wishes
Chris | Bikerman wrote: |
Point A. This is explicable in many ways - the easiest is in terms of the 'anthropic principle'. Simply put, the Earth HAS to be where it is or we would not be here to discuss it. Although this is a circular sounding argument, it is a counter to the opposite fallacy which is frequently assumed. It is best illustrated with a little example. A professional golfer hits a ball. Now we know he will land the ball somewhere in, say, a 40 yard square. Within that square are, say, 10 million individual blades of grass. The golfer hits the ball and it lands on one of these blades of grass.
WOW, says the observer, the chances of that happening are 10 million to 1 against. This is a common fallacy, even in science, and is caused by judging the probability AFTER the event instead of before. This is applicable to the question about the Earth. Life would only evolve on a planet which was in this position so the fact that there is life is not very odd and certainly not evidence of some freekish coincidence that needs divine explanation. |
Though you confused me some 
(i later figured it out), I think that you did an excellent job at using analogies to prove your point. Me and my dad are big golfers, so that one was pretty relevant to me 
.
| Bikerman wrote: |
Point B. A combination of delusion, natural remission, psychologically induced symptoms and myth. Case in point - Catholics in particular like to take sick people to Lourdes because of the reputation for miraculous healing. When proper analsysis is done, however, we find that the rates of cure from cancer are only 45% of that which one would expect without any intervention and resulting from natural remission. The same story can be told about most religious 'miracles', which is, of course, why in the modern scientific age the occurance of miracles has strangely dried up; wheras a couple of centuries ago miracles were almost daily occurances.
|
I too believe that there seem to be those who spread rumors of their miracles that turn out to be made-up or made-out (they created the actual thing themselves). This could be one reason the Catholic church has decided to accept few to nay actual supernaturl experiences.
Thank you for your opinions, though I would have been fine with "flaming" .
God bless,
Pampoon | pampoon wrote: |
I'm curious as to this one topic. I have grown-up around other Christians, so the only time I have exposure to non-believers is when I witness to them.
So I am intrested in your opinion. If you do not believe in the Christian God, what do you think about:
|
Wel first of all this 'christian God' is not really christian at all. He is universal.
Judiasm follow this 'christian God' and calls Him 'YHWH'.
Christianity follows Him and calls Him 'the Father/God'
Islam follows Him and calls Him 'Allah'.
(Note: it's interesting because the word Allah comes from the word Elah in hebrew which means God. And since the word Elohim, plural form of Elah, is used in the Bible, Allah is in the Bible! e.g. Let us create).
Sikhism also i think follows Him.
Bahaism too.
Ismalisim too.
As you can see many religions follow this Ultimate Being.
| Quote: |
a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze?
b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc.
God bless,
pampoon
|
In response to a, God did it through His creation which we call science.
In response to b, it's because of devils. People use the devils powers' to this sort of stuff. The actual real thing from God is rare.
| Quote: |
I don't see you as just excersise. I was talking to soulfire about the fact that this experience will be a great way for me to excersise my evangalism skills. I am sorry if I made it seem that my view towards you is anything less than an equal and a brother/sister in God's kingdom.
I don't expect to be welcomed anywhere. I don't mind being turned away or persecuted. It gets my adrenaline pumping, my heart racing, and my mind thinking; plus I get to show my strength in God by not giving up.
|
Please practice on me. I like christians trying to convert me, because it ends in a debate, and debates are fun fun fun, and you always learn something. So PM me, and see if you can convert me.
I'm a Muslim.
May the Universal Being bless you.
Last edited by loyal on Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total | Soulfire wrote: |
Seriously, one Christian to another, this is a very anti-Christian board, just so you are aware. However, it's hard to give comebacks to those questions, or answers that are remotely credible, but I'm sure many people will try.
|
This is not an antichristian board. I've seen much worse. There are simply alot of atheists and non-christians.
| Quote: |
I thought so too, but it's been going less than desireable for me. People call me close-minded, yet they completely deny even the possibility of God. To me, they are being more close-minded than I am.
|
Well you are a bit close-minded, aren't you?
You said in my thread, Islam is not a fast growing religion, let alone the fastest. Then you paste an article from someone who says Islam actually is fast growing, but it iss because of births.
Then i bring many statistics and show Islam is growing faster than the world population meaning many of those are converts.
Yet your only reply is, you hate it when people say Islam is a fast growing religion, because it is not.
That's as far i am concerned, pretty close-minded. | loyal wrote: |
Wel first of all this 'christian God' is not really christian at all. He is universal.
Judiasm follow this 'christian God' and calls Him 'YHWH'.
Christianity follows Him and calls Him 'the Father/God'
Islam follows Him and calls Him 'Allah'. |
I do not mean that He is only the Christian God, I am simply stating that I follow the God that my Christian church teaches about. I think that it's great we have found many different ways to worship the same God!
| loyal wrote: |
(Note: it's interesting because the word Allah comes from the word Elah in hebrew which means God. And since the word Elohim, plural form of Elah, is used in the Bible, Allah is in the Bible! e.g. Let us create).
Sikhism also i think follows Him.
Bahaism too.
Ismalisim too. |
See I learned something new today. I read the bible a lot, but I probobly would have never learned that if I hadn't talked to you.
May God bless,
Pampoon | pampoon wrote: |
Actually, that is what I am hoping for. I see this forum as a great place to excersise my evangalism skills. Also, I know greatly of the things that go on in this forum. I have been her quite a while just viewing the forums, and this one is the best of all.
|
| Soulfire wrote: |
| I thought so too, but it's been going less than desireable for me. People call me close-minded, yet they completely deny even the possibility of God. To me, they are being more close-minded than I am. |
Ehh, if you have an attitude to convert a person you are talking to, don't be shocked that he/she would probably have enough of you. If you wish to prove someone that he is close-minded, don't be shocked that he would like to get rid of you as soon as possible. If you try to prove someone that he is wrong, don't be shocked that he would hate you, even if you had good intentions doing that. No discussion would make actually any effect if both sides don't try to respect and understand each other's points of view. A Christian should not be a person converting the others to Christianity, he should be showing with his whole life how beautiful is this way of life.
Of course, it's not possible to do this on a web forum. But we could base even forum discussions on respect, on listening attentively to what the others tell us, on the fact that no one of us has the monopoly for the truth and that we can learn something valuable from everyone [though they sometimes hide it very deep inside, being very rude at first ]. Believe me, our conversations would be much more interesting and valuable then... 
| the_mariska wrote: |
Ehh, if you have an attitude to convert a person you are talking to, don't be shocked that he/she would probably have enough of you. If you wish to prove someone that he is close-minded, don't be shocked that he would like to get rid of you as soon as possible. If you try to prove someone that he is wrong, don't be shocked that he would hate you, even if you had good intentions doing that. No discussion would make actually any effect if both sides don't try to respect and understand each other's points of view. A Christian should not be a person converting the others to Christianity, he should be showing with his whole life how beautiful is this way of life.
Of course, it's not possible to do this on a web forum. But we could base even forum discussions on respect, on listening attentively to what the others tell us, on the fact that no one of us has the monopoly for the truth and that we can learn something valuable from everyone [though they sometimes hide it very deep inside, being very rude at first ]. Believe me, our conversations would be much more interesting and valuable then... |
Wow. That is an excellent observance. I see that too in this forum a lot, people having heated fights over topics they believe. I learned quickly that you can't do much through the internet. It's like on MySpace, people are always trying to pick fights with me over the stupidest things (of course, the things people get in fights over here are more important to at least on of the members).
I have decided to try to listen to other's opinions for my own gain, even if they do strike me down for what I believe. I've realized that we are going to get nowhere just being narrow-minded and ignoring that opinion of the other.
God bless,
Pampoon | pampoon wrote: |
| the_mariska wrote: |
Ehh, if you have an attitude to convert a person you are talking to, don't be shocked that he/she would probably have enough of you. If you wish to prove someone that he is close-minded, don't be shocked that he would like to get rid of you as soon as possible. If you try to prove someone that he is wrong, don't be shocked that he would hate you, even if you had good intentions doing that. No discussion would make actually any effect if both sides don't try to respect and understand each other's points of view. A Christian should not be a person converting the others to Christianity, he should be showing with his whole life how beautiful is this way of life.
Of course, it's not possible to do this on a web forum. But we could base even forum discussions on respect, on listening attentively to what the others tell us, on the fact that no one of us has the monopoly for the truth and that we can learn something valuable from everyone [though they sometimes hide it very deep inside, being very rude at first ]. Believe me, our conversations would be much more interesting and valuable then... |
Wow. That is an excellent observance. I see that too in this forum a lot, people having heated fights over topics they believe. I learned quickly that you can't do much through the internet. It's like on MySpace, people are always trying to pick fights with me over the stupidest things (of course, the things people get in fights over here are more important to at least on of the members).
I have decided to try to listen to other's opinions for my own gain, even if they do strike me down for what I believe. I've realized that we are going to get nowhere just being narrow-minded and ignoring that opinion of the other.
God bless,
Pampoon |
Plus, you can also learn something to make your faith stronger. That's what it's done for me anyway.I don't give a lot of thought about the position of this planet. What is there to consider. It's placed in just the right position to sustain life as we know it. If it didn't we would be living on some other planet.
As I'm a Druid and not a Christian I don't know enough about stigmata or tongues to comment. I know stigmata is a Christian phenomina. I have no idea if other religions talk in tongues. I have no idea what reading the conscience is or what is included in your etc.
You must remember that although you and other Christians know exactly what you're talking about, others may not. If you want to know my views on certain topics I would be happy to give them.
| pampoon wrote: |
I'm curious as to this one topic. I have grown-up around other Christians, so the only time I have exposure to non-believers is when I witness to them.
So I am intrested in your opinion. If you do not believe in the Christian God, what do you think about:
a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze?
b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc.
God bless,
pampoon |
If you're going to profess FACTS, you should first PROVE that the Earth was PLACED there. Something I seriously doubt you have the capacity to do.
Yes, it's a FACT that the Earth IS here now. But the means by which it got here is likely nothing more than a COINCIDENCE.
Also, the Earth is NOT in the ONLY place that can contain life...
| Derek Lovley wrote: |
| Dozens of different species, including Strain 121, a microbe that grows at 121° Celsius (250° Fahrenheit)the highest temperature currently known for life. |
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/05/0526_040526_geobacter3.html | pampoon wrote: |
I'm curious as to this one topic. I have grown-up around other Christians, so the only time I have exposure to non-believers is when I witness to them.
So I am intrested in your opinion. If you do not believe in the Christian God, what do you think about:
a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze?
b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc.
God bless,
pampoon |
i have no intentions of offending anybody here thats christian. i'm a humanist. i'm 15. my purpose in life is just to help others with no expectancy of a payback in the afterlife.
A. you could think of it differently like i do. The earth is just a lucky planet out of the billions out there. Take all the possibilities and its going to happen sometime or another in the universe. and while luck sounds a bit preposterous lets think about the odds of a giant invisible guy who went *poof* and then earth was there.
b. honestly cant give you a good explanation for that one. my only argument against most religions is that why should we believe in a religion created 4.6 billion years after the earth was formed and billions more years after the universe.
but thats just an opinion | Quote: |
| a. The fact that Earth is exactly placed; closer and burn, farther and freeze? |
We're extremely lucky. Our planet is well positioned to support one possible method of life. The universe is indescribably colossal, and unlikely though it is in any individual case, it was bound to happen somewhere.
| Quote: |
| b. Holy factors; stigmta, tounges, reading the conscience, etc. |
Simply enough, I don't believe in them.
I've never witnessed them, or heard any unbiased or remotely credible accounts of them. I see no reason why I should believe in them. the planet being in the perfect place is not an argument for god, citing the anthropic principle is a good start, but this is just the start. The problem is being looked at backwards, life evolved on earth, so chances are that even if earth was a fair bit closer life would have evolved to survive.
This isn't an argument against god per se; as he designed/created life, and the earth, surely if he placed it closer/further from the earth, he would have designed/created life to survive there/here?
this seems to me to be a no starter in terms of proof, even in the twisted logic of the religious
| Quote: |
| When the toast has burned, all the milk has turned, Captain Crunch is waving farewell. When the Big One finds you, may this song remind you, that they don't serve breakfast in Hell. |
says WHO?
