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Is a dolphin smarter than a dog?





samswop
Interesting thought - some dogs are pretty intelligent, but so are dolphins, any thoughts?
FunFunkyFritz
Dogs eat their own droppings, and Dolphins takes a dump in the very same water they breathe.

I'd say it's a draw Wink
linexpert
I always thought dolphins were the smartest animals. Chimps might come in second but dogs are not as smart. Very Happy


There's also another thread http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-46500.html that talks about the smartest animal.
jb2_86_uk
FunFunkyFritz wrote:
Dogs eat their own droppings, and Dolphins takes a dump in the very same water they breathe.

I'd say it's a draw Wink


If it wasnt for the invention of plumbing and toilets, we would take a dump in the same air we breathe Confused

JB
jon9314
i think Dolphins are far smarter than dogs. they can find people lost at sea and save them. i'd like to see a poop eating dog do that! now don't get me wrong i love dogs. they are mans best freind after all, but they can't compete with Dolphins. period
FunFunkyFritz
jb2_86_uk wrote:
If it wasnt for the invention of plumbing and toilets, we would take a dump in the same air we breathe Confused

JB
That would not be the most stupid things humans done (and still do).
But the topic of this thread is not about human intelligence - or lack thereof.
Majo
Personnally I have never tested or lived with a dolphin, many people say that they are really smart, however as far as my dog, sometimes I feel like he understands everysingle word that comes out of my mouth, so in my case I would consider my dog the smartest one Razz
Anticollie
I would definatly say, that Dolphins are smarted than dogs. Afterall, we have taught dolphins to paint, play the horn, speak, do many tricks, and save people. Now, we have also done the same with Dogs, however, Dolphins take to it more naturally, according to science articals found through google, further, I haven't heard or seen a dog paint or learn how to play a horn, hehe.

Anticollie.
QrafTee
You know many people mistaken me as smart to because I seem like I understand them (my mom, teachers, friends, girls, other family members, etc.), I don't know, all you really need to do is look at them and/or nod and they will believe you understand them and think you're the smartest of all. Very Happy
Majo wrote:
Personnally I have never tested or lived with a dolphin, many people say that they are really smart, however as far as my dog, sometimes I feel like he understands everysingle word that comes out of my mouth, so in my case I would consider my dog the smartest one Razz
Mannix
My dog eat's it's own crap... it can't be that intelligent.
grajpotti
As from me I can say DOLPHINS are smarter. But Dogs are more useful..

Dolphins can make u laugh and make you enjoy the day with them. If they are too close to you then its like a dream come true.

Dogs on the other hand will be always with us helping us out in the dark and EVEN in the day time.
Blaster
Dolphins are smarter then dogs. But dogs are smart. It all depends on how you train them and all. Some trained dogs are smarter then dolphins. So i say it is a draw too.
hofodomo01
i think it has more to do with the animal's personality. a dog has a strong sense of loyalty and group, thus it will sit, roll over, etc to try and please the group head (aka alpha male...the dog owner). lets also look at cats as an example...they are solitary creatures, so they see no purpose in obeying such commands (makes them seem "less intelligent"...)

the dolphin just simply have different motives...
Terrasis-Cian
Experts and researchers agree that bottle-nose dolphins exhibit a level of intelligence far greater than that of a dog, and even comparabole to that of some primates -- but NOT humans. Smile
I have heard on numerous occasions that dolphins are indeed the smartest of mammals (excluding humans). Dolphins may literally have big brains, but a South African-based scientist says lab rats and even goldfish can outwit them.
Here follows a quote from this scientist;

"We equate our big brain with intelligence. Over the years we have looked at these kinds of things and said the dolphins must be intelligent,"

This following example that I have found may explain this theory:

"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."

Why not? Because, Professors say, the thought would simply not cross their minds.

I have come to conclude that dolphins do have larger brains, and may have greater capacity and potential intelligence. However they do not use this brainpower as efficiently as many other creatures. I hope that you have all learned something valuable today. Goodbye for now. xxxxoxoxox

Wink
elincinerador
none of them thinks. animals do not think. so, how can one be more intelligent than anotherone? think...
ralphbefree
Which is smarter? I guess we would have to have some way of measurement of intelligence. IQ? Is this the measurement of problem solving capability as related to ones changing environment? Both animals a dolphin and a dog seem to adapt rather quickly to different situations and both are capable of learning complex behaviours. As they are both mammals of comparable brain size to body size ratios it would seem that they are equal. I am sure just as in the human population there are some dolphins that are smarter than other dolphins just as there are some stupid dogs out there, but for the most part at first glance i would think that they are fairly equal in IQ.
Shin
jon9314 wrote:
i think Dolphins are far smarter than dogs. they can find people lost at sea and save them. i'd like to see a poop eating dog do that! now don't get me wrong i love dogs. they are mans best freind after all, but they can't compete with Dolphins. period


I thought there are dogs (can't remember the name of the breed) that rescue people who are lost in the mountain or snow?

Still I think dolphins could be smarter than dogs.
bonestorm74
Dogs? Smart? Those words shouldn't be in the same sentence. Lovable, obedient, I'll give you that. Dogs are many things, but they don't rate too highly on the intelligence scale. Even the smartest ones.

Dolphins are a lot smarter in my book.
mephisto73
Dolphins are highly intelligent, at the level of schimps, or higher. That have been shown to possess creativity, self-awareness, ability to use tools, cultural learning and comparative cognition; all significant for what we define as intelligence.

Dogs fail in at least some of those catagories, so I would say that dogs are less intelligent. Though that doesn't make dogs less likeable.
the1991
"smart" is such a vague term...

do you mean:

smart = the ability to be trained

smart = the ability to develop independent thought

smart = the ability to solve problems

smart = high spatial awareness


you might answer dog or dolphin differently for each of those definitions.
Teezgaff
Isn't intelligence in animals measured on self awareness?

Put a mirror infront of a dog and they attack it thinking it's a rival.
Do that to a dolphin and they know it is they who they're looking at.
Do it to a baby and they are confused until the age of around 3yo when they become self aware.
Jumpy
Dolphins Hands down. They live in the wild but still have compassion. Every once a while you hear stories about dolphins saving humans stranded at sea. When was the last time you heard a wild dog saving someone? Most likely they'll attack you then save you.
zenkirevolutions
dolphins are smarter than humans.
cybernie
Dolphins are smarter than dogs cause a dolphin female isn't called a bitch.
benwhite
Dogs are cute and friendly, but they aren't all that bright. Dolphins by a landslide.
s43ros
I would definitely say dolphins, they have seemed to show far more intelligence than dogs. We teach dogs tricks and say that they are intelligent, when in fact they just replicate well. Wild dolphins, however, learn from others in their group, or maybe even on their own.
annahouck
I don't have enough knowledge about dolphins. But I believe they are smart. It's just that not smarter than dogs though. If a dolphin can perfectly dance, take a look at this video. There's nothing a dolphin can do that dogs can't. The smartest dog in the world!
ocalhoun
annahouck wrote:
There's nothing a dolphin can do that dogs can't.

-Recognize themselves in mirrors.
(Realizes that the reflection is itself, not a different dolphin)
-Understand basic sentence syntax.
(Understands the difference between 'bring the red ball to the green ball' and 'bring the green ball to the red ball'.)
Lemme see a dog do those things.
D'Artagnan
ocalhoun wrote:
annahouck wrote:
There's nothing a dolphin can do that dogs can't.

-Recognize themselves in mirrors.
(Realizes that the reflection is itself, not a different dolphin)
-Understand basic sentence syntax.
(Understands the difference between 'bring the red ball to the green ball' and 'bring the green ball to the red ball'.)
Lemme see a dog do those things.


that's because you havent met my dog, he shave him self in the mirror every couple of days... wait that's me? i guess dolphins and dogs are smarter then humans lol
ocalhoun
D'Artagnan wrote:

that's because you havent met my dog, he shave him self in the mirror every couple of days...


You should check your eyeglass prescription; I think you're being taken advantage of by an opportunistic homeless man.

Especially if your dog looks like one of these:
truespeed
The most common bird in the world,Chickens are meant to be pretty smart.
gverutes
Anyone see the movie "the Cove"? I think the info from this documentary really proves that dolphins are smarter and have more advanced brains than dogs.
macky
Quote:
Dolphins and dogs evolved from a common ancestor that was neither dolphin nor dog (just as humans and chimps evolved from an ancestor that was neither human nor chimp). The dolphins belong to the cetacea (a phylogenic classification) and dogs belong to the carnivora. Both of these have evolved from a group called the mesonychidae.


just saw this from some research... that the dophins and dogs has their common with each other...
repairit
jon9314 wrote:
i think Dolphins are far smarter than dogs. they can find people lost at sea and save them. i'd like to see a poop eating dog do that! now don't get me wrong i love dogs. they are mans best freind after all, but they can't compete with Dolphins. period


you also have to remember that the intelligence of dog varies from breed to breed. However from memory dogs cant recognise themselves in the mirror and dolphins can. I remember reading that somewhere.
Bikerman
My border collie, Maddie, almost certainly recognises herself in a mirror. It is difficult to be sure, but the first time she saw her reflection she was startled and went to investigate. She pretty quickly sussed out that it wasn't another dog though. Now when she walks past a shop window or other reflection and catches a glimpse she does a quick double-take but then seems to realise it is her....
There again Maddie she doesn't 'see' television but one of my other dogs (Max) loves to watch TV and you can tell he is following the action.
This is controversial since some experts say that Dogs cannot recognise images on the TV screen and simply see movement. We have tested Max in a number of ways. Firstly we ran a video clip with a small dog briefly appearing just for a few frames. He reacted immediately when the dog appeared. Next we showed two video clips - one with a passionate love scene and one with a fight (Max always reacts to fights or apparent violence and gets quite 'vocal' and jumpy). He watched the love-scene passively but became animated when the fight scene came on.
(In both cases we used no sound, so there could be no audible 'prompting' going on).
It isn't conclusive, but it IS persuasive.
If anyone has a good idea for a more definitive test, by the way, I'd be interested to hear and try it.
ato784
jon9314 wrote:
i think Dolphins are far smarter than dogs. they can find people lost at sea and save them. i'd like to see a poop eating dog do that! now don't get me wrong i love dogs. they are mans best friend after all, but they can't compete with Dolphins. period


Agreed.

You are correct that Dolphins are smarter, they might even be smarter than us, since they have a more complex language than we do, they simply have not had the correct tools and environment to develop to our level.
qwerty16
Terrasis-Cian wrote:
Experts and researchers agree that bottle-nose dolphins exhibit a level of intelligence far greater than that of a dog, and even comparabole to that of some primates -- but NOT humans. Smile
I have heard on numerous occasions that dolphins are indeed the smartest of mammals (excluding humans). Dolphins may literally have big brains, but a South African-based scientist says lab rats and even goldfish can outwit them.
Here follows a quote from this scientist;

"We equate our big brain with intelligence. Over the years we have looked at these kinds of things and said the dolphins must be intelligent,"

This following example that I have found may explain this theory:

"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."

Why not? Because, Professors say, the thought would simply not cross their minds.

I have come to conclude that dolphins do have larger brains, and may have greater capacity and potential intelligence. However they do not use this brainpower as efficiently as many other creatures. I hope that you have all learned something valuable today. Goodbye for now. xxxxoxoxox

Wink


Hi! I felt the need to reply. I agree with you completely. But, I think that the experiment just doesn't add up. You can't compare a rat, with a goldfish or a dolphin. It's not witty if a goldfish jumps out of it's bowl.. It's stupid. It's jumping out of water, where it can survive and into air where it can't. That's lime us, jumping from an 'air bowl', into neverending water. Except we can actually swim, they can't walk. That being said, it's intelligent for a rat or a gerbil. But, honestly, if a dolphin were to jump out.. where would it go? I'm just using logic.. I think it's smarter for the dolphin not to jump out, rather than be like the goldfish and go all suicidal.

Thank youu. xx
qwerty16
I'm just trying to bring this back to life. /:
busman
I felt like someone who has read EXTENSIVELY on the subject of animal intelligence might be welcome here.

Dogs, why'll not having the brain size of a dolphin have been to known to display EXTRAORDINARY intelligence on occasions, whether these are specific examples or indicative of the species as a whole is something that needs further researched but there is definitly an objective argument for saying that dogs can be damn smart on occasions. On a PBS (USA) special about dogs, they did an experiment judging the Emotional Intelligence of 3 respective creatures, i think it was between a dog, a toddler and a chimp (pretty sure its been awhile). Needless to say (due to the nature of this conversation) the dog dominated in being able to tell human emotion just from the slightest facial ticks of the humans, not always even giving a command in a certain tone or anything.

Then there's the fact that some dogs have been taught to read up to 30 words, and i say learned because the words can be in different colors and fonts and the outcome is the same exact outcome no matter what mixup of fonts and colors you could imagine. You can youtube both of these examples pretty easily - reading dog, and PBS Special Dogs.

Now this is not taking anything away from dolphins which have been thoroughly studied as well and it has been realised that they have a complex form of language on par with that of a humans. (Working off of like 2 1/2 hours sleep i will post the links in another reply-I promise Very Happy ) There is a is a 45 degree slope downward in language of words used the most to words used the least. Words like the and to etc, would be on the top of this slope and words like onimonapea would be on the bottom end of the slope. A pretty simple concept actually when you come to think of it, anywho, dolphins (bottlenose) were found to have that same form of slope in there clicks and whistles, some being far more common than others and slowly becoming a slope downwards. Dolphins can be trained to do damn near anything as well making them exceedingly useful creatures (lookin at you US Military Sad ).

As on the eating of the poop, dogs do that so there is no evidence of them being at that spot at any given time. Its a defense mechanism from other animals who may wish to harm the dog, hence why cats bury theirs (although the cats solution is far less disgusting both achieve the same effect).

Negatively speaking for dolphins; dolphins have been known to attack other baby porpoises for ABSOLUTELY no reason leaving their carcasses to wash up on beachs around the world. They have been known to do the same to sharks even though sharks tend to be solitary hunters and in ALL ACTUALLITY do not pose that much of a threat to dolphins. Dolphins HAVE been known to attack humans as well, including but not limited to raping humans on occasion. (Can be youtube'd with hilarious results ensuing).

All in all animals are FAR MORE intelligent than we give them credit for i.e - bee's being able to solve complex mathmatical equations in the realm of spatial distance, and the quickest way to make it between the two points, within instants of giving the problem (super computers can't do it as fast); Gorilla's painting of a dead pet dog named Apples, which the gorilla had named Chasing Apples, a game they used to play; Dogs being able to read; Dolphins affinity for complex language etc etc. I could provide you with numerous others and all these are EASILY verifiable using Google for less than 3 minutes. ( I will post links in my next reply, have to get ready for work now haha)

Anyway what i'm saying is that we know so far little of how the animal brain works, much less our own you cannot definitively say that animal X is far smarter than animal Y just based on the short amount of time we have studied them.
jajarvin
Man has tamed wild dogs, as well as wild horses.
So my opinion is that dogs and horses are the Earth's wisest animals (after, of course, the human being)
Bikerman
Strange definition of wisdom - being tamed.....one might think that a wise animal would avoid being used by other species...?
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
Strange definition of wisdom - being tamed.....one might think that a wise animal would avoid being used by other species...?

Depends on how you view it...

In a long term perspective... well, horses would probably be on the verge of extinction if not for being domesticated, but instead, now there are more of them on the planet than ever before.
Bikerman
Hmm, but if we start assuming that animals can make long-term strategic decisions like that then the question of which is most intelligent goes out of the window because they would clearly be way more intelligent than the species trying to judge.....
fouadCh
samswop wrote:
Interesting thought - some dogs are pretty intelligent, but so are dolphins, any thoughts?

They are both "intelligent", and so are every other still surviving species on this Earth.. no matter how "dumb" it would seem to you..

When trying to compare living organisms, one should come up with something a bit more relevant and meaningful than what you're trying to do : "some dogs" vs. "dolphins".. about a notion that might be misconceived when not defined appropriately...
Bikerman
Indeed. I don't see a huge amount of point in trying to ascribe and quantify anthropocentric notions of intelligence to other species, unless there is a particular point. Intelligence is still relatively poorly defined (though much better than it was when IQ tests first appeared) and we know that there are several components to human-type intelligence. Some of these may be of interest in a particular species but it is unlikely that we would be interested in measuring all of them to give a human-comparative value - even if we could do so....
johans
I have a dog and she is smart but i have not experience a dolfin. But study say dolfin is the smartest animal.
Bikerman
Did you bother to read the previous postings?
Yes, one study apparently classifies dolphins as the most intelligent animal next to us - or does it?
We see a headline :
Science: Dolphins Declared Second Smartest Animals In World

Sure looks like science, doesn't it? Looks like there is scientific evidence, yes?
Well, hold on a moment pilgrim............Only a naive wally believes such headlines - particularly when they concern scientific studies. Press departments have a nasty habit of taking the results of a scientific paper WAY further than the scientist would be comfortable with - and sometimes they just plain make stuff up. Happens all the time. Whenever a science paper is dumbed-down into a headline or snappy title then you can bet your sweet ass that it doesn't say what the headline would have you believe.

Digging deeper we find this is mainly based on a couple of studies by S at Atlanta University.
She bases her assessment on brain size and an estimate of the complexity of the neocortex.

Hmmm......this is now sounding more like speculation than science.....We don't have a good understanding of the relationship between neocortical complexity and intelligence, let alone good metrics for such complexity, so it seems to me that Marino is making an awful lot of assumptions in her papers. In fact she is pushing beyond what I would call science and into advocacy - as she freely admits on her website. She has an agenda, and however noble or laudable that agenda might be, it should raise red flags when considering summaries or headlines about the scientific publications of such a person. She is hardly going to publish something showing that dolphins are dumb-asses because she is an advocate for the contrary position.

So what do we do when faced with this potential conflict of interest/confusion? We check the actual research, where it was published, what it concluded, and how much circulation it received in the professional field concerned (ie how many experts in the field have cited the study).
She has published several papers on dolphins but the most widely cited paper is titled
'Mirror self-recognition in the bottlenose dolphin: A case of cognitive convergence

The abstract reads:
Quote:
The ability to recognize oneself in a mirror is an exceedingly rare capacity in the animal kingdom. To date, only humans and great apes have shown convincing evidence of mirror self-recognition. Two dolphins were exposed to reflective surfaces, and both demonstrated responses consistent with the use of the mirror to investigate marked parts of the body. This ability to use a mirror to inspect parts of the body is a striking example of evolutionary convergence with great apes and humans.


So, she is comparing a particular ability - notice that she doesn't claim any greater intelligence for dolphins than for, say, chimps, gorillas and other great apes....Indeed all the great ape species are known to be capable of MSR (Mirror self recognition).

So, this little exercise was really intended to make people aware and properly skeptical when considering reportage of scientific studies, papers and conclusions, particularly when considering popular and fairly shallow consideration of such work....

So what do I say about dolphin intelligence? They certainly seem to be at the top table, if we are looking at the sort of things we consider intelligent in humans. I don't think it has been established, or anywhere near it, that they are more intelligent than other species such as the great apes, and I think that many of the claims being made for 'dolphin person-hood' are based on very scant and very 'extrapolated' and speculative data.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
Hmm, but if we start assuming that animals can make long-term strategic decisions like that then the question of which is most intelligent goes out of the window because they would clearly be way more intelligent than the species trying to judge.....

Hey, I'm just building on your own anthropomorphism, there, when you question their wisdom in being used.

And if you're going to ask what's wise or not, then...
If you can't be the dominant species no the planet, it may be wise to follow the adage, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." ^.^
biolu
Well humans score quite good on the intelligence scale Razz
ocalhoun
biolu wrote:
Well humans score quite good on the intelligence scale Razz

The one made by humans, for humans, you mean?

Of course we do well on it.
fouadCh
ocalhoun wrote:
biolu wrote:
Well humans score quite good on the intelligence scale :P

The one made by humans, for humans, you mean?

Of course we do well on it.

Well said !..
descent_of_man
I recently read a scientific study that pretty convincingly shows that dolphins are able to respond to individualized names. They surmise that dolphins have personal whistles that they learn when they are young, and that these whistles become a sort of identifier. Other dolphins then call using that whistle, and the dolphin then responds, hearing its 'name'.
Geko
definitely smarter. Dog has smart moments but dolphins are really amazing.
12phabie
dolphins are great and beautiful beings. I heard they can sense when a woman is pregnant and they can show rescue workers about someone in trouble at sea. dogs can save lives too but I mean I think that's pretty cool.
harrer
If you would like an analogy:

Dogs have about the same level of intellect as a 10 month old baby.

Dolphins have a level of intellect equal to a 2 year old baby.
Bikerman
I would like to see some SUPPORT for that analogy because it seems to me that it is far too glib to be based on science.
Pippo90
If I remember correctly, dolphins should be far more intelligent than dogs.
Bikerman
Remember WHAT? Where do you get this stuff?
harrer
Bikerman wrote:
I would like to see some SUPPORT for that analogy because it seems to me that it is far too glib to be based on science.


There's no science.

Dogs learn stuff by conditioning, i.e. associating stimuli with memory, same way babies learn.

Dolphins can remember faces and people and also know who's family.
Ankhanu
harrer wrote:
There's no science.

Given that this is a science forum, you might want to rethink the content you attempt to post here.
harrer
Ankhanu wrote:
harrer wrote:
There's no science.

Given that this is a science forum, you might want to rethink the content you attempt to post here.


It's not Science as in the conventional bookish way that everyone uses these days.

It's analytic thinking, which is scientific. Just not based on the book.
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