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Mexican Elections and the Greg Palast article (VOTE by VOTE)






In your own opinion, what is the best answer for the postelectoral uncertainty that Mexico lives today?
The recount vote by vote, ballot by ballot
75%
 75%  [ 3 ]
To ratify Calderon (from the 'official' party) as winner without a recount
25%
 25%  [ 1 ]
The Cancellation of the elections
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Revolution
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 4

diablera
Well, it is well knowed that the U.S. Elections (Florida, 2000 and Ohio, 2004) weren't that 'clean' at all. I haven't posted any article in here in ages, but I'd love to let you all guys know what is happening in my country.

It is quite sad the current situation in Mexico nowadays. First of all, the so called 'Guerra Sucia' (Dirty War) that the media and the transnational companies began against Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO), the most popular leftist politician in Mexico and probably in the whole Latinoamerica nowadays. They all, along with the official right party (PAN), started telling people that AMLO represented the most dangerous thing (only comparable to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela) that could ever happens to Mexico.

This negative campaign against AMLO, regards the failure that it meant, made some people think twice about voting for him the presidential elections. Eventhough the campaign made these people think twice, most of all of us did vote for him. We really know that he won. The media tried so hard to make us believe that there was a little possibility that Calderon (PAN) could win, though all of the Surveys and polls previous the election showed that AMLO would comfortably win (42% vs. 37%) that day.

Then the 2nd of July came and eventhough ALL THE EXIT POLLS reconfirmed the previous ones (AMLO-42% vs. Calderon-37.5%), the IFE (Electoral Federal Institution) at 11:00pm was saying that it was impossible to declare certainly a winner!!!!

Then the fraud came twice... The first one that same night and the second one on Wednesday night. It was a flagrant fraud that stole the hope of millions of mexicans that week...

Look at this graphic --what horrifies me is the 'perfect' simetry that exists between the two candidates that lead the elections, because asuming that is a random counting of votes, the graphics should have shown something different--:


Translated in real numbers, the difference between AMLO and Calderon was 0.5% = 240.000 votes from 42.000.000 - average= 1.8 votes more for Calderon each ballot (400 votes each ballot aprox)
(for those who know a bit of Spanish, my whole article about it HERE)

Now what we fairly demand is for a re-count of the total of votes. The re-count vote by vote should be made by common citizens.

Please, for those who simpatize with this movement, support with sending letters to your nearest mexican councils in your countries... let them know that it looks not good at all the antidemocratic ways they're taking these days...

p.s. Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying hard to improve Razz
Soulfire
I recently visited Mexico, and a few people gave me some insight into the corruption of their government. Mexico could be a very rich nation if it had proper management. The people, or the majority we talked to, don't care (because the president doesn't really affect them) enough to do anything about it.
maclui
Wow Diablera here comes the tons of lies. Now these unawares (I had another word but this one is fine) perredistas are here at frihost to mourn the fall of this charro candidate AMLO. Come on, why do you keep telling lies about this election? I think people like you and the hundreds (yes hundreds most of the times) at Paseo de la Reforma should try to get information by yourselves, do not be like little cubs following this obssesed man in his persuit of power. Where did you get the idea of a fraud pal? Because AMLO said so? Do you really understad advanced mathematics and statistic to question, or deny IFEs procedures and graphs? Make no mistake pal, the election was planned and executed by one of the best reputed institutions in Mexico and World Wide! Did you know that the IFE was asked to train iraquies for their elections? did you know that IFE has helped 52 foreign countries to build and strenghten their democratic elections? Do you know that the indelible ink is mexican invention and its exported to several latin american countries?. Pal it is people like AMLO and his followers that keep this country paralyzed, impairing the progress, saying No to everything, refusing our institutions, contradicting and acting against all laws again and again. People like AMLO is truly a danger for any country, why? because he only wants to be part of history, he is a lier and compells people to do irresponsible and vandalic acts in the name of democracy, he has called himself a fighter for the mexican democracy, (man you do not have to defend our democracy), I think better informed people rejects him as a guardian of the democracy, Mexican democracy is OK, there is not need to defend it exept of AMLO himsef.
PS. About your article it must be tons of bulls***t and stuff like that is what many perredistas feed of. So I think it is biased and based on a lies and stubborn arguments.
diablera
maclui wrote:
Wow Diablera here comes the tons of lies. Now these unawares (I had another word but this one is fine) perredistas are here at frihost to mourn the fall of this charro candidate AMLO. Come on, why do you keep telling lies about this election? I think people like you and the hundreds (yes hundreds most of the times) at Paseo de la Reforma should try to get information by yourselves, do not be like little cubs following this obssesed man in his persuit of power. Where did you get the idea of a fraud pal? Because AMLO said so? Do you really understad advanced mathematics and statistic to question, or deny IFEs procedures and graphs? Make no mistake pal, the election was planned and executed by one of the best reputed institutions in Mexico and World Wide! Did you know that the IFE was asked to train iraquies for their elections? did you know that IFE has helped 52 foreign countries to build and strenghten their democratic elections? Do you know that the indelible ink is mexican invention and its exported to several latin american countries?. Pal it is people like AMLO and his followers that keep this country paralyzed, impairing the progress, saying No to everything, refusing our institutions, contradicting and acting against all laws again and again. People like AMLO is truly a danger for any country, why? because he only wants to be part of history, he is a lier and compells people to do irresponsible and vandalic acts in the name of democracy, he has called himself a fighter for the mexican democracy, (man you do not have to defend our democracy), I think better informed people rejects him as a guardian of the democracy, Mexican democracy is OK, there is not need to defend it exept of AMLO himsef.
PS. About your article it must be tons of bulls***t and stuff like that is what many perredistas feed of. So I think it is biased and based on a lies and stubborn arguments.


Come on, mclui, you should know what the hell I am talking about. There is a huge uncertaintiy, and as I said before: if you're really sure about Calderon's victory, this re-count thing shouldn't be refused by anybody at all. It certainly should not be an obstacle to Calderon to be ratified by a new recount.

The re-count vote by vote can bring us more certaintity about the elections, and if Calderon is the real winner, please, all of us will accept it. Promise.
maclui
OK, I agree with you all at some point. There were many mistakes during the election, to be fair, there are solid arguments to ask for a recount, but a partial one, just as the TFPJF ordered. Why? because there are rules to be followed, because there is a procedure and a set of requirements to be fulfilled in order to ask for a full recount. AMLO could not prove that there were mistakes or fraud in everyone of the voting sites, so that is why it cannot be done. And that is something AMLO and the gang around him do not understand: the law is the law, they think the law is like a good or service which can be exchanged or used to get something else. They think the law lies in one single man in the whole country: "The president". They think that Calderon has the right and the obligation to decide the full recount. AMLO and his gang do not have a bit of respect for the institutions, they do not see them as authorities, they see it as paperwork, as obstacles to get what they want. They think that above all should always be the president. That is scary because it shows what he thinks of what a president should be, an almighty being with all the power in the country, no one except him can decide what is to be done, the law, would be AMLO himself.
Instead Mexico has been working to have independent institutions, autonomous powers doing each of them their respective tasks. The TEPJF has made a decision, a righteous and unbiased decision, why do we have to question its authority? why do we have to ask for something else? If they make their judgements upon the law and what is fair to everyone. They are not against anybody nor allied to nobody. So the partial recount is fair, the authority has decided so, lets wait for the results, and please all you people at paseo de la reforma GET A LIFE, go home, do something productive, or at least let the ones that really work continue doing that, because they are the one who pay the taxes for second levels in highways, and of course the money government gives to the elder, etc.
suntzu3500
I belive a recount is nessicary to insure the stability of the country. In the long run a recount will be cheaper than the economic damage the protesters are doing to the country. If he really won, there should be nothing to fear. That said, the left wing canidate, Obrador, poses a potential threat to US economic interests in the region in my opinion and I am strongly supporting Calderon.
maclui
suntzu3500 wrote:
I belive a recount is nessicary to insure the stability of the country. In the long run a recount will be cheaper than the economic damage the protesters are doing to the country. If he really won, there should be nothing to fear. That said, the left wing canidate, Obrador, poses a potential threat to US economic interests in the region in my opinion and I am strongly supporting Calderon.


It is NOT.
What we need is to respect the law and the authorities. Simple as that. AMLO is a dictator, we are tired of power sick freaks.
diablera
maclui wrote:
suntzu3500 wrote:
I belive a recount is nessicary to insure the stability of the country. In the long run a recount will be cheaper than the economic damage the protesters are doing to the country. If he really won, there should be nothing to fear. That said, the left wing canidate, Obrador, poses a potential threat to US economic interests in the region in my opinion and I am strongly supporting Calderon.


It is NOT.
What we need is to respect the law and the authorities. Simple as that. AMLO is a dictator, we are tired of power sick freaks.


I'd like to ask you, do you really think the election was fair and totally clean? If you read newspapers you'll realize that it was not. Even Diario Reforma has reported lots of anomalies during the whole re-count.

This is a fact: 90% of the ballots in Jalisco were found with ripped seals. How could you explain that? And what about 1203 votes difference that AMLO won after the recount in only three districts in Veracruz?

And actually, let me tell you that the legal procedure afterwards is the cancellation of all those ballots, which, in real numbers, would mean that AMLO would win for about 1.000.000 votes...

But, c'mmon, keep smiling, we already won!!! Cool
maclui
The facts have not been released yet. Those numbers you are giving do not come from another source but AMLOs gang itself. So there is not much about it. How ever if lots of boxes were previously opened it was because the TEPJF ordered it to fullfil the requierements for the lawsuits presented by the political parties. That is not a secret nor illegal. So lets wait for the final results, we will see what really happened although many of us already know, and many others refuse to accept. That is democracy.

Quote:
But, c'mmon, keep smiling, we already won!!!


That is totally correct Mexico won for not choosing the bad president. Very Happy
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