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Landis never could have won without doping probably. Its sad that such a good cyclist ends like this. The tour de france is overshadowed with cheating cyclists this year and previous years also.
Where is the real sport and where are honest sportsmen, women?

Of course,not. Landis would have never won without doping. Let's no talk about Lance Armstrong...

What is interesting is how many big names from US sports have been caught lately:Marion Jones, Montgomery, Landis and now Gatlin. I forget probably other ones but I am more interested in Athletics. It seems that the US Track and Field Federation finaly decided not to cover them anymore it it was done in the past. I think it's a great improvement for sport in general.

If you want to find a sport without doping, maybe you have a chance to find it for sports where there is no money involved but I am even not sure of that.
MixNMatch DJ
Cycling has turned into a sport in which the person who can hide the doping the best wins...
MixNMatch DJ
Oh, and has the second test come back yet?
I don't think cycling is the only sport concerned with doping, some other sports are much more. But on cycling and athletics there are controls and then they succeed to catch some people.
But in many sports there are almost no controls at all and the doping is implicitely autorised. Specially when sports requires strength and speed. Have you seen a lot of people controled positive in NBA, NFL, NHL ?
It's too sad that cycling is the only sport that has the doping atention on it. There are a lot of cases in athletics and they are not so noriceable.

And by the way, someone knows if the results are final? I'd love to see a Spanish winnin the Tour again
I just checked and the results will be public in 2 days (5th of August). Let's wait until then...
He is busted and the fact that he denied it so vehemently only makes him look worse.
It's now official, Landis is convicted.

But we'll have to wait a couple of months until everything is really cleared
I wanted to believe. It seemed like a great feel-good story, but in the end he was no different. Furthermore, do any of you think that any of the cyclists are clean?

I heard an interview with Greg LeMond who one three Tours and coming into his last tour he was in the best shape of his life, posting his best rides, times, etc. and he said that year was like something was wrong. All the cyclists were blowing him away. He would have not suspected as much if he wasn't in the best shape of his life. He felt the entire tour was at another level and he was convinced it was some kind of drug enhancements. Ever since rider after rider keeps getting busted.

I think Armstrong too was in on it. Yeah, he got away clean, but there is enough doubt. I bet Paireiro was on the juice too, but did a better job of hiding it. I could be wrong but that's what I feel.

Regarding other sports, I think the NHL is the cleanest. There are a few who take roids, or HGH and whatever else, but overall, it doesn't have the problems of baseball, football or basketball.

Competition is too fierce at the top levels of sport and any edge one can get and get away with it, they seem to take it.

It's too bad since it send a very bad message to the kids coming up. However, the worst might be us as fans allowing it.
It is from all times that people use 'enhancements' to increase their ability to win.
But these days, the cyclists also put themselves in danger!
The tour de france should stay heroic. It is a shame that Armstrong never got caught while he was using dope. But of course besides that he was a great sportsman, no doubt about it.

Landis was proven wrong with the beta test. Paireira wins the tour, but without taste!

Landis has been convicted by a lab that has previously demonstrated unreliability.

No one has ever lost their job at the French lab when they leaked propriatary confidential info in the past. No one lost their job at the same French lab that made bogus alligations about Armstrong, then lost the B samples in the mail, yeah right. The employee's at the French lab have no fear about losing their jobs even if they accept bribes to falsify results.

The threashold on testoserone ratios were lowered almost in half this year.

Alcohol consumption does skew testing results.

The biggest mistake any team could make would be to not maintain their own test lab and collect samples witnessed at the same time as the French lab collects samples.
well it's pretty sad what's going with Landis. probably Ferrero will win the tour cos at the 2 objections Landis was fault.... sad.
As a cyclist myself I think the sad thing is that all this attention on our sport is actually damaging us greatly and this is unfortunate as we are being very proactive about our drug testing whereas other sports are trying to bury their heads in the sand. Perhaps the problem is that we are being too succesul in identifying our cheats and this makes us look worse but I think this is the right approach and in the long run it will pay off for us as well will be as clean as we can be while others are still wresting with the issue.

Like many people in cycling I wished that Landis's efforts on his stage win in the tour de france were all off his own doing and not aided but it looks likely that he is just another cheat and that really disappoints me however this hasn't been decided yet and I will reserve my final judgement until all his avenues for contesting it have been exhausted.
It is hard to believe that cycling is that rife with druggies that they can bust several competitors from the top-10 for the same drugs... and yet other major sports have trouble finding anyone doing anything wrong.
Cycling is no more full of cheats than any other sport. The fact is that cycling tests more riders more often than any other sport and it could be argued that the cyclings seeming "drug problem" is due to the success of that drug testing program. We could stick our heads in the sand like a lot of other sports but we have taken a clear stance that cheats aren't welcome and they will be ruthlessly pursued. That is the right approach.

The reason why people cheat is because they think it will give them an advantage so it isn't that suprising that those that have been identified are among the most highly ranked.

It is so sad the actions of these individuals makes us question everyone and that isn't fair to those that have done no wrong and put in many, many hours of training to give them the chance of riding, or even winning the toughest sporting event in the world.
Landis has been convicted by a lab that has previously demonstrated unreliability.

It's ridiculous to accuse the lab. It's obvious that Landis took illegal products.
As did Gatlin who was tested by a different lab (maybe again a bad lab ) Smile

Anyway some people escape from this controls even if they obviously take illegal products. When somebody is obviously much stronger than other people it's very strange. Because as we know that there are some people that uses doping among the competitors if you are much stronger than them it means either that you take better products or that you come from a different planet.

I will always remember Florence Griffith Joyner winning the 100 meters beating the world record smiling and finishing several meters in front of others. She doubled her body volume in one year and never tested positive. But she died at 39... So that was a worst punishment.
By the way how old is Lance Armstrong...
What's even more depressing is that suspicion is so rife in some sports that anyone who is deemed successful is rumoured to be taking drugs. Athletics is a case in point - I remember talking to a parent of a young 400-metre hurdler who told me in all seriousness that anyone finishing in the top three of a national sports competition in the UK was most probably taking drugs - it's ridiculous - where's the incentive for young sportsmen and women to go as far as they can if the level of cynicism is this bad? The problem however, is two-fold: firstly, the reasons why most drugs are banned in sports like athletics are because of the perceived health risks - not the fact that they help you to perform better - if that was the case then stuff like creatine and even bicarbonate of soda would also be on the banned list - but they're not and many leading athletes are using these legitimately and happily. Secondly, many (possibly most) of the so-called performance-enhancing drugs that are being used by athletes illegally do not in themselves help the athlete to win races - so you could argue that on one level they are not cheating when they take them. Many of these drugs enable athletes to recover more quickly and easily from high levels of training enabling them to train even harder and hence improve their performances, so it's not like they train less for better results but rather the opposite.
And besides all this, we haven't even got onto blood doping yet - anyone with a view on that? Laughing
Its quite unfortunate that a few people have ruined the athletics arena. Case in point is america's MLB. Steriod issues have become rampant. Any player who bounces back from a poor year to a good year is constantly scruitinized. Its the astrix era, unfortunatly we cant do much about it.
I am not so sure that so many forbidden drugs are not used to enhance performance but more to help recovering.
In a testimony, a former professional cyclist who took doping products said that the difference (with and without the doping product) was like riding a motorcycle instead of a cycle! I think that could help quite a bit specially on a steep hill ! Very Happy

For blood doping it existed a very long time ago. Lasse Viren who won the olympics (5000 m) in 1970 I guess (i am not sure of the date) used the "self blood transfusion". It was not forbidden at that time. It seems that this old doping technic came back into favour lately (several people have been caught) but now it's forbidden...

The future is clear, it's genetic doping (it's not science fiction). Then it' will be probaby impossible to detect and we will have contests between mutants.
We're probably not too far off from genetic doping now... using drugs in sport goes back almost 100 years - it's well known that cyclists in the early years of the Tour de France were routinely given a liquid mixed with cocaine during the race. I know one cyclist who told me it would physically impossible to complete the Tour in the times that they are completed by the top riders without the use of doping products of some sort or other to enable them to recover each day and 'ride like they're on motorcycles'! The problem is ultimately, what makes some drugs illegal and others not? Blood doping is a case in point - you can get the same benefits from training at altitiude for a couple of months or sleeping in an oxygen tent every night and both those are fine. The biggest problem is that there is a complete lack of clarity about what exactly these drugs and substances do to the body and what the benefits or pitfalls are. Only when there is a proper and clear understanding of what they are will we be able to tackle the problem effectively and perhaps even put a stop to it... eventually.
You can say cycling is doing something about it, but clearly they have as big a problem as all the rest. Just look at what happened prior to this years Tour. They were not all American's. it's cyclists in general. Endurance and speed sports seem especially vulnerable.

Hockey doesn't seem to have as much a problem as say Baseball and Football, but you know many of those athletes are probably looking for an edge.

Also, take Barry Bonds. He was a Hall of Famer before he started taking roids and he couldn't resist. The worst part is they are all claiming not too and then they get busted. It makes the clean ones look bad even if they are clean as someone always suspects the best athletes are juicing.

I agree they can't give up (with the testing) and must always keep chasing. At least some of them will get caught and perhaps a majority of them will get caught some day and in a way ruin a career not making it worthwhile in a number of ways.

Maybe that could be a new sport they could start. Drug Cops! Number of athletes caught and gold medals for catching a certain number of cheats. How about that?
...Now I like the sound of that...!
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