FRIHOSTFORUMSSEARCHFAQTOSBLOGSCOMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


For Religionists: Which Holy Book Do You Subscribe To?





parokya
I am a Christian and have read the Christian Bible several times already. But I have also read the Bhagavad Gita, Lao Tzu's I Ching and right now I am reading the Koran (all in translations). Which Holy Book are you reading and why?

If you are a Christian, which books of the Christian Bible have you read completely?
cheeta
never thought about that before... hmm i cant remember i ever read any holy book... yeah i read mahabharata the Great Indian epic... but thats not a holy book at all... more like farytell... Shocked Shocked
mantasx
I don't know, when I'm going to read something more than Bible, I'm going to deside what is my favourite holy book.
mike1reynolds
Lao Tzu wrote the Dao Deh Jing, the I Ching, or Book of Changes, was written nearly a thousand years earlier, about the same time as the old testament, 3300 years ago. I have read all of the Bible, all Taoist scripture and a good chunk of Hindu and Buddhist scripture. I’ve also read the Koran, but I don’t even count that, the Qur’an was indeed dictated by an angel to Mohammed, but not an angel of Light. Of the genuinely holy scriptures I rank the I Ching as the most profound. Unlike every other religion, Taoism defies Marx’s criticism that religion is the opiate of the masses because Taoism was designed exclusively for the ruling class and educated elite, not for the ignorant masses, so it is the most coherent and lucid of any religious scriptures.
Soulfire
The Bible, I haven't been reading as much as I should. I'm not sure which books I've read completely, there's a few (and because I can't remember is the reason I am starting over, in Genesis 1:1)
parokya
mike1reynolds wrote:
Lao Tzu wrote the Dao Deh Jing, the I Ching, or Book of Changes, was written nearly a thousand years earlier, about the same time as the old testament, 3300 years ago. I have read all of the Bible, all Taoist scripture and a good chunk of Hindu and Buddhist scripture. I’ve also read the Koran, but I don’t even count that, the Qur’an was indeed dictated by an angel to Mohammed, but not an angel of Light. Of the genuinely holy scriptures I rank the I Ching as the most profound. Unlike every other religion, Taoism defies Marx’s criticism that religion is the opiate of the masses because Taoism was designed exclusively for the ruling class and educated elite, not for the ignorant masses, so it is the most coherent and lucid of any religious scriptures.


Whooah. That's a lot. How has your reading helped you become a better person? I am just starting to get interested in other holy books.
parokya
Soulfire wrote:
The Bible, I haven't been reading as much as I should. I'm not sure which books I've read completely, there's a few (and because I can't remember is the reason I am starting over, in Genesis 1:1)


But don't you think it would be better if you start with Mark, then afterwards to Matthew, Luke and Acts. Then the letters of Paul before going to John's Gospel? I don't think the Bible was meant to be read beginning from Genesis since we now know that even the Jews followed a kind of readership rating for the books of their Bible where they limited some parts of Genesis, Ezekiel and the whole of the Song of Songs for mature audiences only.
Traveller
parokya wrote:
But don't you think it would be better if you start with Mark, then afterwards to Matthew, Luke and Acts. Then the letters of Paul before going to John's Gospel? I don't think the Bible was meant to be read beginning from Genesis ...

Would you read a mystery by jumping straight to the trial and judgment without first learning what the crime was?

True, there are many potential sequences for reading the Bible, but there are some parts of the New Testament that are MUCH more clearly understood with the background of the Old Testament. For example, a study of the book of Hebrews can be wonderful, but is so much MORE fruitful if you study Deuteronomy at the same time.

As far as other books are concerned, I have also read the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, and the Tao te Ching (each a long time ago). I've never read the entire Qur’an, but a friend of mine is the formerly Muslim co-author of the book Answering Islam (not to be confused with the similarly named website), and his writings and lectures have been helpful.
haak_heu
well actually dont follow any holly book in true sense but i like KORAN
all books tell same things almost they teach about humanity and how
to be in ur life .... so i think there teaching is almost same
jipmerite
mike1reynolds wrote:
Taoism defies Marx’s criticism that religion is the opiate of the masses because Taoism was designed exclusively for the ruling class and educated elite, not for the ignorant masses, so it is the most coherent and lucid of any religious scriptures.


So what about the 'ignorant masses'? They don't deserve a religion, guidance or enlightment? Are they forsaken for being low class? Shouldn't a religion treat all people equally?

That sounds like the caste system in Hinduism where I am better than you because of birth when you cannot help who you are born to.
crimson_aria
I've read many pages from the Holy Bible. But, I'm not sure if I've read the books completely. I skip. Except for Revelation, I'm quite sure I've read it from first page to last.
Soulfire
parokya wrote:
Soulfire wrote:
The Bible, I haven't been reading as much as I should. I'm not sure which books I've read completely, there's a few (and because I can't remember is the reason I am starting over, in Genesis 1:1)


But don't you think it would be better if you start with Mark, then afterwards to Matthew, Luke and Acts. Then the letters of Paul before going to John's Gospel? I don't think the Bible was meant to be read beginning from Genesis since we now know that even the Jews followed a kind of readership rating for the books of their Bible where they limited some parts of Genesis, Ezekiel and the whole of the Song of Songs for mature audiences only.

It's true - the Bible doesn't really go chronilogically from Genesis to Revelations, but I was just going to do Genesis and work my way through for the sake of simplicity.
Dj_Dan
I'm a Christian and I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I'm curious about other religions, but never to the point that I'm inclined to read their scriptures.
silliman
I’ve read the bible several times, the Bhagavad-Gita, parts of the Qur’an, the Book of Mormon, Lao Tzu, the Upanishad, Sufism, some Buddhist teachings, and the apocrypha. I find them all intellectually stimulating, but I don’t think it’s my intellect that’s going to heaven, hell or wherever.

The greatest satisfaction and spiritual “knowledge” comes from mediation. As soon as the spiritual essence that has motivated the authors to write becomes “The Word”, something is lost – which brings up a burning question I have always wanted to know. Why didn’t Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, and other spiritual leaders write their own teaching down? Both Buddha and Jesus of Nazareth, for example, came from the education class of society and knew how to write. Yet, they chose not too. I think their decision not to write down their teaching was not a “careless” mistake. I believe it was for a very good reason. What do you think that reason is?
mike1reynolds
parokya wrote:
Whooah. That's a lot. How has your reading helped you become a better person? I am just starting to get interested in other holy books.


I think moral character is largely genetic and the part that is nurture rather than nature is set at a very young age, before religion has a chance to significantly influence people. In terms of morality I don’t think that I am the slightest bit different than I was during the atheism of my adolescence.

Studying other theologies has helped me to understand Christian theology much more clearly. Christendom has a greater diversity of profoundly conflicting theologies than any other religion. Hinduism has much more diversity of form, but the underlying theology of all Hindu sects is dramatically more uniform than in Christianity. Buddhism only has about five major sects while Judaism and Islam have three or four, and Taoism only one unless you count Zen which is a synthesis of Taoism and Buddhism. I don’t know how many hundreds of denominations there are in Christianity. If you can see the underlying pattern in all theology it gives a lot more context and insight to the irreconcilable theological conflicts between denominations.

I believe that the Devil has had a hand in every religion, some more than others. Christianity was turned against the Messiah’s own race even though the Bible warns Christians not be conceited because more of them will follow the Second Coming than people who claim to be Christian (Romans 11). The Bible says that real believers can heal and cast out demons, but there is no record of this happening after the post-Apostolic era outside of rare individual saints, so clearly the most important aspects of Christianity are lost. The only way to resolve this is to look at the way God approached every culture and piece them all together to fill in the gaps and weed out the discrepancies.

For example, Christians say that Jesus died for our sins, but they can give no answer as to why God required a murder to forgive our sins. Why not just forgo the murder and get straight to the forgiving? How did a heinous crime prompt God to decide NOT to destroy the world? If you try to dig more deeply into Christian theology you just don’t get anywhere, so Christian expressions of faith are formulaic and cultish, not reasoned and deeply thought out. But if you add elements of Eastern theology to fill in the gaps the picture suddenly looks much more complete and perfectly self-consistent:

A spiritual master can take on the karma of a disciple and transmute it through their own personal suffering. A really powerful spiritual master like the master Jesus can take on a huge chunk of the whole world’s karma and transmute it. If Jesus had not, I’m convinced there would have been an antichrist as the emperor of the 1st Reich, Rome, rather than the 3rd Reich. Instead of the Jews he would have persecuted the early Christians with genocidal intensity stomping them out, as well as any memory of Jesus.

Imagine what the world would be like today if Hitler had won total victory 2000 years ago and destroyed Christianity before it could get off the ground? It would be like the novel 1984, but with a demon worshiping religion that exalted the antichrist instead of Christ for millennia. Instead of political indoctrination like in 1984, it would be a world wide satanic state religion. If everyone were brainwashed by a satanic state religion who would have a chance at salvation?

This matches every element of the basic professions of Christian faith but it is completely devoid of any of the ambiguity that causes so much conflict and disagreement among denominations and it does not cast God as being either pathological or totally unfathomable. This casts God in a light that is fathomable, logical and just.

God can never be fully fathomed of course, but in too many instances Christians refer to the weaknesses in their theology as being an unfathomable mystery of God. That is just an excuse for being too proud to admit that they must be missing something basic, so they blithely assume without a second thought that the answer must be far flung and beyond human comprehension, because if they can’t understand it then clearly no could possibly understand it.
mike1reynolds
jipmerite wrote:
So what about the 'ignorant masses'? They don't deserve a religion, guidance or enlightment? Are they forsaken for being low class? Shouldn't a religion treat all people equally?
The ignorant masses have plenty of religions for them, it is the highly educated who would otherwise not have a religion specifically for them, although Judaism is the second best in this regard.

jipmerite wrote:
That sounds like the caste system in Hinduism where I am better than you because of birth when you cannot help who you are born to.
Just because some people are less intelligent than others doesn’t mean that we should get rid of all colleges in order to enforce an egalitarian ideal.
The Czar
mike1reynolds wrote:
Lao Tzu wrote the Dao Deh Jing, the I Ching, or Book of Changes, was written nearly a thousand years earlier, about the same time as the old testament, 3300 years ago. I have read all of the Bible, all Taoist scripture and a good chunk of Hindu and Buddhist scripture. I’ve also read the Koran, but I don’t even count that, the Qur’an was indeed dictated by an angel to Mohammed, but not an angel of Light. Of the genuinely holy scriptures I rank the I Ching as the most profound. Unlike every other religion, Taoism defies Marx’s criticism that religion is the opiate of the masses because Taoism was designed exclusively for the ruling class and educated elite, not for the ignorant masses, so it is the most coherent and lucid of any religious scriptures.


WT? Angel of what then darkness? It was 'dictated' by Jibril (Gabriel).
mike1reynolds
When Muslims stop killing each other in God's name I'll believe that it was an angel and not a demon that dictated the Qur'an to Mohammed. I've studied all world religions and Islam is the only one that is thoroughly demonic. Actions speak louder than words, the Qur’an is a book of religious bigotry that drums up hated and violence.
The Czar
I don't understand. Which Qur'an are you reading. If you read the arabic one plainly then of course it isn't understandable. Please tell me where you got your copy. The one I read contained stuff about alcohol, drugs. Respect of women. Equality and good stuff.
mike1reynolds
I've read two different translations, one was from a Muslim neighbor, the translation was from a Mosque in Saudi Arabia. The other version I got from an imam at the King Fahad mosque.

Respect for women? There is no other part of the world where women have fewer rights than in the Muslim world. A Persian co-worker was in a terrible state because her brother would not allow her mother to sell her own home. Women are not allowed to make decisions like that. “Honor” killings are common place in Islamic countries. If a girl is abducted in Iraq she will be killed by her family on her release because the abductors MIGHT have raped her. Heaven in the Qur’an is basically a brothel for men. The best that a woman can hope for in heaven is to share a man with 90 other hot young virgins.

What does the Qur’an say about most Jews and Christians? They are evil people who are trying to trick you into doubt. That is why Muslims always ask this paranoid question about where I got my translation from. Christians never ask that because the Bible doesn’t fill them with paranoia that everyone else in the world is Satanic and wants to alter the Bible. Muslims will believe any conspiracy theory on the topic, I once talked to a Muslim who was convinced that Bush was trying to pressure Saudi Arabia to alter the Qur’an. As much as I hate Bush, that is an utterly absurd accusation, no Christian would desire or even think of such a thing. Muslims might want to change the Bible because that is what the Qur’an is, an adulteration of the Bible, but no Christian would ever dream of such a thing. Why would a Christian even care what is in the Qur’an? The whole notion is just loony toon.

It is all about drumming up hate and distrust of others. The Qur’an portrays most Jews and Christians as being essential Satanic. It sounds like the Hellfire and damnation sermon of an ignorant conservative fanatical Christian preacher who preaches the same kind of religious bigotry and intolerance that Islamists do. That is why the only significantly large Fascists group in the world to day is Islamo-fascism.

Mohammed himself said that alcohol does some good but a lot of harm. It doesn’t do nearly as much harm to people who have any self-discipline, and instead being deprived of this extremely useful medicine and relaxant can be something profoundly evil. Alcohol reveals your true self. If you are jerk then alcohol will make you look really bad and do horrible things. If you are a good person then alcohol will simply make you relaxed. Every non-Muslim that I’ve ever talked to who went to a Muslim country says the same thing about Muslims attitudes about alcohol: they are completely nuts and totally full rage and condemnation towards anyone who drinks alcohol. And it is total hypocrisy, the Qur’an describes there being alcohol in Heaven, but in order to get around the fact that alcohol is haram, the Qur’an only describes alcohol without naming it and says that this wonderful “new” drink won’t give you a headache no matter how much you drink. No other drink besides alcohol will give you a headache, and the implication is that you can get rip roaring drunk, without limits, with no spiritual or physical harm. Of course, every other religion on the planet implicitly understands that there is nothing physical in Heaven, but for some reason Muslims think this is really profound.
nondormo
I thought only geek "things" were discussed here... Laughing

I am a baptized Catholic but I haven't been paying too much attention. Most of the Scriptures I know come from listening at Mass. I do have a Moslem friend but we keep religion away from our dealings with each other. I haven't read from the Holy Books of other religions, and this is not because I don't like them. It is just that I'm not interested.

I have been spending some time following the drift of the discussion. And I do understand one thing: if it is true that the unreflected life is not worth living (Socrates ?) then we all need the occassions for reflection that books give. I prefer the books of philosophers -- at least, they won't incite me to war.
The Czar
Yo mike1reynolds. I am from Brunei. No honor killings here. Of course I will think that Islam is great here. It is the best religion in my country.
parokya
Traveller wrote:

Would you read a mystery by jumping straight to the trial and judgment without first learning what the crime was?

But the Bible is a library of books, not a mystery novel. Of course, I understand what you mean. But you see, if the whole point of reading the Scriptures is getting to know Christ, it is best to start with the Gospels. But I won't argue the point further.

Traveller wrote:

As far as other books are concerned, I have also read the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, and the Tao te Ching (each a long time ago). I've never read the entire Qur’an, but a friend of mine is the formerly Muslim co-author of the book Answering Islam (not to be confused with the similarly named website), and his writings and lectures have been helpful.


Very interesting. I started reading other Scriptures because I was told to (school requirement, you know.) So how did you get started on these holy books?
parokya
nondormo wrote:
I thought only geek "things" were discussed here... Laughing

I have been spending some time following the drift of the discussion. And I do understand one thing: if it is true that the unreflected life is not worth living (Socrates ?) then we all need the occassions for reflection that books give. I prefer the books of philosophers -- at least, they won't incite me to war.


I understand what you mean. I read the philosophers too. But if you are serious about your faith, you should read the Scriptures. You said:

nondormo wrote:

if it is true that the unreflected life is not worth living (Socrates ?) then we all need the occassions for reflection that books give


And you are right. But it would also be true that a religious life to be well lived must be nourished by the reading of one's holy books, at least.
silliman
I see a lot of discussion that debates the merits of different religion and even more discussion about all of the difference of each religion. It is sad that our educational indoctrination and socialization teaches us to first see the differences in life. Rarely do we break the mold and seek similarities or that which unifies us. The scientific method divides the “observable” world into domain, kingdom, phylum, subphylum, class, order, family, genus and species – each order differentiating itself and the object studied by marking the “differences.”

No wonder that when we look at each other or when we look at each other’s religion, we quickly see difference that make us discriminate against each other. If we could only be taught to see the many infinite things that we have in common and the binds us together as human beings, the world might be truly a paradise.
Related topics
FOR WAR OR NOT
Cricket Star :: converted to Muslim ::
was Hitler a Christian?
What would it be like to die?
islam is...
terrorism
religion issues
Conditions to give up jihad
What the Crusades Were Really Like (Part 1)
NATO in final stages of prepping for strikes against Iran
Quran in drain
India: 40 Police probed over death of 2,500 Muslims in riots
Athiests just may have it right
Sin, original sin, devil;Fantasy or real?
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Lifestyle and News -> Philosophy and Religion

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.