The United States is 18th out of 24 in terms of education effectiveness among developed countries. For a country that spends so much on war, our education standards are pretty bad. Maybe we have our priorities mixed up, eh?
http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52 | joshumu wrote: |
The United States is 18th out of 24 in terms of education effectiveness among developed countries. For a country that spends so much on war, our education standards are pretty bad. Maybe we have our priorities mixed up, eh?
http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52 |
You're right. We should be educating ourselves. Fighting fake wars against imaginary enemies is killing this country.
BRILLIANT!
I smell feet.That was a really stupid question and the associated response.
Fake wars? Last I checked people really die every day, that makes it very real. Imaginary enemies? Last I checked those people dying every day didn't kill themselves the enemy did.
Maybe you should start the education right there in your own house first.
| essentialmedia wrote: |
That was a really stupid question and the associated response.
Fake wars? Last I checked people really die every day, that makes it very real. Imaginary enemies? Last I checked those people dying every day didn't kill themselves the enemy did.
Maybe you should start the education right there in your own house first. |
Yep. Fake wars. There's no reason to be at war, hence a "Fake War".
Yep. Imaginary enemies. What, exactally, has Islam done to the US (or the rest of the free world for that matter), to promote our going to war with them? They are not going out of their way to kill innocent women and children in stores, schools, churches etc,... the US military is doing that. The US is making up enemies to promote it's war machine to grab up all the oil and conquer the world and take away everyone's freedom and their rights to an elected government without the threat of being exterminated.It's all karma, the CIA funed the mujahedin and the al qeada against the soviets in afghanistan. Now all that funding is coming back to them in terms of terrorism.
I think the administration thought Iraq would be EASY, following their campaing there back in 1991. But they never expected an insurgency, they didn't plan fir the after part. Thats why they got screwed so badly.
I remember reading once that war is too important to be left to politicians. And too serious to be left to generals.
One should care first for his country than what the neighbours are doing in their... Unless they are obviously and deeply threathened. Neglecting your people leads, over time, to loosing wars that you could have won. The great majority of people tire of being left aside for so-called "greater matters".
I think the basis of war is lack of education, think about it... countries with stable economies ( a result of education ) an informed (educated) populace that are democratic haven't really ever fought wars with each other.
Yes, we definitely have our priorities mixed up. Iraq NEVER tried to hurt us, nor did they ever pose a threat to us.
But 18th out of 24th in education...that is sad. Something must be done.
| vexation wrote: |
Iraq NEVER tried to hurt us, nor did they ever pose a threat to us.
|
Yes, well, in Michigan legislature has been passed to increase the number of graduation credits required.
Currently you need:
1) 4 years English
2) 4 years History
3) 2 years Math
4) 2 years Science
5) 1 tech-education
6) 1 physical education
And the rest varies per school district.
After the legislation has been passed, I believe the class of 2010 is required to have:
1) 4 years English
2) 4 years History
3) 4 years Math
4) 3 years Science
5) 2 years Tech Ed (including 1 online course)
6) 1 Phys Ed. (not sure about this still)
7) 1 Music/Arts
And I fail to see how comparing the government to failing students is relevant to anything. It's not the governments fault that students of today are so apathetic and don't care about education. And no matter how much money the government pumps into education, the apathy of the students remains.
It is relevant because we spend $56 Billion on education (2006) compared to $437 Billion on Military (2004). . Its not apathetic students it inherent flaws on our education system.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2006/education.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_budget
Lack of funding is not the only flaw on our education system. We are ranked 18th out of 24 because we try too hard to even up everyone's acheivement. Apathetic students are a problem, but the solution to THAT problem isn't to pump more money into crap like No Child Left Behind and standardized testing, but instead to leave them alone, off to the sides. Instead of working on dropout prevention, let them drop out. Send em out to learn how much their earning power had decreased. Get tough on the welfare system and stop the "welfare dependency" of these apathetic ones. Or pursue them alternately, via more vocational ed classes(which is where more funding can come into play, buying equipment, etc...). Funnel the money into not only more vocational classes, but also more opportunities for those who WANT to learn to advance. Everyone is never going to even up, thus, those who desire shouldn't be pushed down and the apathetic should be moderately left alone.
Also, you have to consider that regulating education is the job of individual states, with aid from the federal government whilst the military is primarily the job of the federal government when it comes to money. All the funding for the military comes from the federal government whilst most education funding comes from individual states. So although the federal government should provide more funding to states for education, education is recieving a lot more funding than what is pictured in that 56 billion, just 56 billion from the feds. But more funding from the federal government is a must.
A third thing to consider(I know, this post is getting long but I was stimulated) is that not only does the federal government have its priorities mixed, but so does American society in general. I know, so do other countries, but more value and importance placed on education in areas besides the federal government is a must for anything to work out. Well if i could cuss i would be cussing worse than a salor.. becuase that is complete and utter...... yeah... because if war is more important than edu. then who the heck is going to run the government when the war is over? If war is more important than edu. who is going to teach the kids once the war is over? Everybody would be dead, if war were more important than edu. because everybody would be putting their heart and soal into war and going over there thinking they had what it took to go to war and see what you see over there and then they woudln't and then there would be one person that coulda been a great lawyer or somthing.... i mean come on people use your common sence!
| Donutey wrote: |
| I think the basis of war is lack of education, think about it... countries with stable economies ( a result of education ) an informed (educated) populace that are democratic haven't really ever fought wars with each other. |
Exactly, that is why George W is setting up a democracy in Iraq.
Anyway, this subject is stupid! Yeh, lets move all our funding from “war” to “education”.
Sounds good in my warm living room.
Just remember WAR is a culmination of that which threatens our existence, number crunching pellet feed university drowns. | horseatingweeds wrote: |
Yeh, lets move all our funding from “war” to “education”.
Sounds good in my warm living room.
Just remember WAR is a culmination of that which threatens our existence, number crunching pellet feed university drowns. |
You are SO wrong on so many levels....
It's pellet FED, not FEED, and it's DRONES, not DROWNS! 
My point is that it will NOT matter how much we give schools, the students have to want to learn - and the majority (overwhelming majority) are so apathetic to school that it doesn't make a difference.
And so we spend money on our military? Sorry we want to be safe. If we don't spend money on military, we wouldn't have to worry about going to war, as war would come to us.
And then, should war come to us, people might have to ... *GASP* Actually make a sacrifice for their country! Say it ain't so!
[sarcasm]Freedom is free! I should be able to just sit in my home happy and not have to care about the world, it should be all about me, as long as I'm comfortable![/sarcasm] | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
You are SO wrong on so many levels....
It's pellet FED, not FEED, and it's DRONES, not DROWNS!
|
Thanks for the inglish lesson! But that is but won level. I’m not saying we should just cut out the military. But most of the military spending is going into the war. Money, I would say, better spent on positive things. The war in Iraq is not protecting us from a war in the States, if anything is going to provoke one, from outside or within.
As for apathetic students, I’m not sure how old you guys are but I'm 21, and my experience in high school (Colorado Springs) sounds different from your perception of our public school system. We were extremely under funded (we had to make paper bag covers for our worn and outdated text books in every class). The teachers (also under paid) were often more apathetic then most of the students. And the students were under stimulated, and the educational stimulation they got was outdated and biased.
But vex, I agree with you on most of your points. No child left behind is BS and in most public schools the students are taught more how to take and answer the standardized tests then actually learning the principles.
why spend less on War?
why all the fuss about education?
we'll just outsource all the thinking jobs to India where people actually do care about education...
...and then we'll just outsource all the muscle jobs to China - cus, you know cheap labour.They work hard and pay less.
...and then when there is rising unemployment and companies don't want to hire because nobody has enough education...
...we'll protest in congress about all the Outsourcing thats being done.
Ditch education.
War is business.
Well its business if you're employed in Halliburton.
Our Educational system has many flaws and unless we improve it, then I_am_mine may be correct and we will produce employees for Halliburton and Walmart of course.
1. On average in the US students go to school 180 days but in most other countries. In Japan they have a 6 day school week.
http://www.myshortpencil.com/articleheaders/5thyearform.htm
Japanese students, for example, spend 245 days a year in school and consistently score higher on many tests than U.S. students who typically spend only 180 days a year in the classroom.
You figure that if you have longer school days, and you have 60 more days, then you should learn more, but there is an obvious cost involved for salaries, maintenance, etc...
2. We have NCLB which is supposed to guarantee that all students have a certain level of proficiency but instead it guarantees that teachers spend many hours teaching to the test since they and their school will be judged according to test results. States can set standards for their own state tests for a passing grade, in California (http://cahsee.cde.ca.gov/)the passing grade for Math is 55% and English is 60%, I wonder if we can get away with that in the workplace!!
3. In other countries many of the students are not able to choose what they want to take as a major, they take a proficiency test that puts them into an area of study whether they like it or not.
4. I agree money is an issue but money is not the only issue, parents, community leaders, school boards, etc... all have to realize the system is broken and can't be fixed, it needs to be replaced. | Quote: |
Our Educational system has many flaws and unless we improve it, then I_am_mine may be correct and we will produce employees for Halliburton and Walmart of course.
1. On average in the US students go to school 180 days but in most other countries. In Japan they have a 6 day school week.
http://www.myshortpencil.com/articleheaders/5thyearform.htm
Japanese students, for example, spend 245 days a year in school and consistently score higher on many tests than U.S. students who typically spend only 180 days a year in the classroom.
You figure that if you have longer school days, and you have 60 more days, then you should learn more, but there is an obvious cost involved for salaries, maintenance, etc... |
So the Japanese spend more time in school? If we add 60 more days and put more time onto the days, students will only hate school more, and the problem (student apathy) would not be solved, but aggrivated. Besides, most schools in the U.S. aren't equipped to handle that much, and many lack air conditioning for the summer months. It's not that feasibly right now.
| Quote: |
| 2. We have NCLB which is supposed to guarantee that all students have a certain level of proficiency but instead it guarantees that teachers spend many hours teaching to the test since they and their school will be judged according to test results. States can set standards for their own state tests for a passing grade, in California (http://cahsee.cde.ca.gov/)the passing grade for Math is 55% and English is 60%, I wonder if we can get away with that in the workplace! |
Yeah, I've never agreed with some of the standards. In math a 50% is passing I believe (It may be 60%) in my school. Now, I understand that math should be weighted because the concepts are much harder to grasp right on than in some other subjects (and that depends on the person too), but not weighted so much that people can pass without doing any work (like people can do in our school right now).
| Quote: |
3. In other countries many of the students are not able to choose what they want to take as a major, they take a proficiency test that puts them into an area of study whether they like it or not.
|
See, I don't like that at all. Good thing in America we have the freedom of choice. The whole "You can do it if you put your mind to it" thing comes to mind here.
| Quote: |
| 4. I agree money is an issue but money is not the only issue, parents, community leaders, school boards, etc... all have to realize the system is broken and can't be fixed, it needs to be replaced. |
The question is: replaced with what?
And did anyone take into consideration that military costs are just MORE expensive than school? I mean a nuclear-powered submarine will most likely cost more than a bunch of paper and supplies for the school. Perhaps $400 million in the military is the equivalent of $50 million in the school systems. It's just a thought that crossed my mind, and I'm not saying that more effort for education shouldn't happen, because it should.The reason the world mostly HAS war is because of a lack of reasonable education and acceptance of other people. It is because they have been educated from a young age to believe false ideals, warped versions of reality, and race/sex/etc/ism. So, logically, if all the money was poured not into war but education then there would be very little war. Similiarly, if the money was poured into war there would be little good education.
Thus, the choice is simple. Which is better: War, which kills millions of people and innocent victims, ruins lives, destroys and defeats OR Education, which shows people how to live in peace and build and create for the betterment of the human race?
I think the answer speaks for itself.
| Nameless wrote: |
| The reason the world mostly HAS war is because of a lack of reasonable education and acceptance of other people. |
Yes, definitely the lack of proper education is a problem. The education is forced to the children. There's no educating of the psyche. There's no listening of the childrens needs. Children needs attention.It makes sense to invest more in public education if we are the richest nation. The only problem is that government contracts aren't handed out to private companies nearly as much as if they were spent on the army.
It also makes sense to provide a better education for our society but the problem is that people might learn about foreign policy rather than stupid flag amendments. Another bad thing is that public education isn't allowed to teach religious doctrine. That could effect the church membership.
Many things are said already.
The resumee is: What is education?
Is it learning? Learning what? Learning for what?
Look at all the educated people around the world,
they all shut up confronted with a less educated
society fighting wars and killing people!
Why are they shutting up? They have less weapons
to defend! Is this intelligent? Is it intelligent of the
EU to shut up, because they know, they can't defend
themselves?
What is learning? Repeating non-universal formulas
until they're inside the brain ? Knowing by heart
all the dump from people in charge?
What's about creativity? Where is it?
Is it coming from educated-obedient people or from
illiterates?
I realized that education is very good, learning is very good.
Only you should not go into schoools......
Fribee
Schools is not the only place to learn education. Nature. And People. But well, you should really be careful who you mix around with. Education is important but it is a WIDE topic here. It could also mean that people skills are important to survive. Who cares if you have a Degree in Business? You need EQ, my friend! IQ doesn't cut it anymore. War, why talk about it when we couldnt even get our most fundamentals right?! Geez.
Why do we even have to ask this question? It's stupid to say that war is more important than education. It seem like you can prevent war with education or you could start one through it. I say education either way...
