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What if your beliefs are wrong?





We r the SYC
What if?????


Christiantity is fake?

Buddaism is fake?

Islam is fake?

Athistism(?) is fake?

Satanism is fake?

and so on, depending on which beliefs you have.

WHAT IF they are wrong......, im not saying they are.... what if Islam is really right and christianity is wrong? if hunduism is the way and satanism is not.... what would u think if all your life uve lived for somthing which suddenly turns out to be fake or a big lie, kinda like the davinchi code but on a more grand scale. the things so many cultures are built around.....some call it "religion" what if its all rubbish? suddenly the universe explodes and our meaningless lifes start all over again......,

I remember a classic show done my Rowan Atkinson (Comedy actor) where the scene is Hell and hes the Devil, and hes putting the people into their groups for entering hell...., and a rather crude line he says is "and over here finaly Christians, Im sorry the JEWS were right!"

Wouldent you be absalutly gutted ud given ur life to everything it demanded or asked of you......, given that the brain is "so powerful" God himself could be a part of the brain form by the big bang that speaks to us and makes us think we see and do things......, (unlikly)


If like from Men in Black, theres a lil ball hovering in a Lab and its really and entire world...... and in the end of MIB2 they open that locker and see theyr only inside a locker in the station of a way way bigger alien world......., realy quite a debatable topic.......... but not quite what i want this topic to be about.

Would u ever dream to imagine. YOU WRONG.... personaly ive ponderd this and given into blissful ignorance to just enjoy knowing and loving or "thinking" im knowing and loving God....,

Warning thuis is not a "all relgion/ beliefs a nonsense topic" athiests what if YOUR wrong, what if GOD IS REALL!!!!????? Shocked
Soulfire
Well, then if I am wrong - I'm no worse off, because I lived a life according to Jesus' teachings, such as love one another and treat others as you'd like to be treated. Things like that. Things that are generally accepted as "good".

There is absolutely nothing bad if Christianity is totally wrong, because we lived great and full lives.

But when we're right, we're in Heaven... and those less fortunate are not.

There's a lot of what ifs in the world, you know?
We r the SYC
lol, well... thnkx for boycotting the entire topic lol




This topic is more a question of Dout and Faith.......

which is higher for you....
xeroed
What if you actually didnt live a goog, full life, soulfire, because what if humanity is just wrong and generally accepted good is just wrong.

for me personallly, I know Im probably going to be in the ''wrong'' category when the shit comes down cause I made my own beliefs up and Im pretty sure Ill be the only one in my line too
druidbloke
There is no wrong or right with this, you have to work with whatever fits best with you personally, in their own ways all of the above are right. Some things arent a simple case of black or white, where one day you realise everything you believe is fake, it just doesnt work that way.
Fire Boar
I am a Christian.

If Christianity is wrong:
  • I will not have lost anything.
  • I will not be able to regret my religious decisions (because I would be ).
  • No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right (because they would be ).
  • I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.


If Christianity is correct:
  • I will have gained everything, and go to heaven in the afterlife.
  • Atheists will not be saved, and they will spend eternity in hell.
  • I will meet up with my departed relatives again. Hooray!


In conclusion, I see no good reason to be an atheist.
The Conspirator
And if Islam is right, you Christens go to hell. So saying that "If I'm right, I go to heaven" is stupid cause any one can say that If this religion or this version of Christianity is right, you go to hell regardless of how good a person you are.

No one is perfect and no one can know everything so I know I am wrong about something.
For instance God, it is possible (but very highly implausible) that there is a god out there. But such a god would not be the Christan God nor any god of any religion.
xeroed
this reminds me of the simpsons episode where bart and homer convert to catholosism vs protastantism and they said that different religions had different heavens... what if you all get your own heavens and they are just everyone elses hell?
Soulfire
xeroed wrote:
this reminds me of the simpsons episode where bart and homer convert to catholosism vs protastantism and they said that different religions had different heavens... what if you all get your own heavens and they are just everyone elses hell?

I actually considered that. I thought that what if everyone's right, and what they believe happens? But I follow the Bible, which says everything other than Christianity is wrong. That's not to say I don't respect people, because as many of you on these forums know - it's very difficult, near impossible to change someone's beliefs.
supjapscrapper
Well, You're quite right asking this question.
It is really something everybody should ask himself everyday, if he's doingt the right things, if he's not blind and thinks he understands what he's doiing. This is what ot's all about because the feelling of doing the right thing does give us false impressions ... people wh kill other people thinking the do the right thing are not always right. But ot's not about killing it was just an extreme example. But if you see you really love the others (which is not easy at all, and certaily not just those love words they don't stop telling you at the chuurch, that almost no one really understands or applicates.....
i-morgan
Well... to be rather blunt to your question if all religion is wrong:

... then we just all rot in the ground. :/ It's as simple as that.
We r the SYC
We r the SYC wrote:
some call it "religion" what if its all rubbish? suddenly the universe explodes and our meaningless lifes start all over again......,



Exactly.......
parokya
Are you going to bet your life on a "what-if"?
ralphbefree
I am not trying to take credit for this quote but it is one of those quotes that become ingrained in my memory after reading it:
Quote:
It does not matter what you believe, because what is really going on is happening.

So what is REALLY HAPPENING?
Marston
HAHA LETS ALL TYPE IN CAPS LIKE IDIOTS!!??!!??1ONE!
We r the SYC
copycats aye.... Surprised
livilou
The question is a good one and people should ask themselves that. I'm always asking myself similiar questions.

Example: Am I really understanding the Bible correctly when I study? Are my interpretations correct?

If I'm taking the meaning wrong, I feel that God will correct me. I've also learned that some verses can have different meanings according to how you read it.

I guess that's one reason I don't like to state that anyone is absolutely wrong. If a person is following what they believe, who am I to judge if they are correct or not? It's not my job and truthfully, I don't want it.

I'd rather live my life believing there is a God and find He doesn't exists than live my life as if there isn't and find out He does.
Aredon
That, my friend, is a question no man of this world can answer for you. All I can tell you is that it takes FAITH to survive, no matter what it is, all of mankind can agree that faith is the most important thing in existance. Therefore, why trouble yourself with what-ifs? You'll spend your entire life searching for the answer to them if you dwell on such questions. It will consume your life. "A waisted life is worse than a life led in the wrong direction" - Aredon (RL - not me - vury long time ago)
mgumn
Soulfire wrote:

There is absolutely nothing bad if Christianity is totally wrong


except the millions of people who were prevented from using a condom by their christian sect (catholicism) and who have AIDS/HIV and other STI's as a result and the orphans of these people. The millions of children born every year into poverty because their parents had no access to birth control, because of their religion.

yeah absolutly harmless
xeroed
Soulfire wrote:
I actually considered that. I thought that what if everyone's right, and what they believe happens? But I follow the Bible, which says everything other than Christianity is wrong. That's not to say I don't respect people, because as many of you on these forums know - it's very difficult, near impossible to change someone's beliefs.


The Quran says the same thing and Im sure most other religious text do too... but I mean what is paradise for one religion could be Hell for another right? my point is... who is to say what is right or what is ultimate happiness... everyone has their own ideals

and you are right it is near impossible to change peoples beleifs... most of the time I like to debate for the sake of debating... If every one got along think about how boring the world would be ^_^
achowles
Given mankind's limited understanding and the enormity of the topic, it's fair to assume that nobody's completely right in this topic. It's therefore more a question of whether or not you're living your life in what is considered to be the right way, more than whether or not your understanding of life the universe and everything is 100% correct.
Fire Boar
The Conspirator wrote:
And if Islam is right, you Christens go to hell.


Actually, no. There's something in the Qur'an that quotes that the "people of the book shall not fear an eternity of suffering" (people of the book being Christians and Jews and anyone else who believes in the same principles as Islam; one God, holy book etc.). So there. If Islam is right, Christians are not doomed to hell. Very Happy

But regardless, atheism is the one sure-fire way of having a rotten afterlife. At least with Christianity you get a chance (and a thumping good one I might add); atheism there is no chance.

Oh, and it's spelt "Christians", not "Christens".

mgunm wrote:
except the millions of people who were prevented from using a by their christian sect (catholicism) and who have AIDS/HIV and other STI's as a result and the orphans of these people. The millions of children born every year into poverty because their parents had no access to birth control, because of their religion.


There are no set guidelines in the Bible about contraception; so it depends on the denomination of Christianity you're worshipping in. The CoE has nothing against contraception AFAIK. Of course, the Catholics don't like it, but they have a tradition of not liking anything.
The Conspirator
You missed the point of what I was saying, saying "If I'm right i go to heaven" is stupid because any one can turn the argument on its head ans say "if you don't believe this of this other religion you go to hell"

Quote:
But regardless, atheism is the one sure-fire way of having a rotten afterlife. At least with Christianity you get a chance (and a thumping good one I might add); atheism there is no chance.

thats only if Christianity is true which is very, very highly unlikely.
Fire Boar
The Conspirator wrote:
You missed the point of what I was saying, saying "If I'm right i go to heaven" is stupid because any one can turn the argument on its head ans say "if you don't believe this of this other religion you go to hell"

I'm sorry I haven't a clue what you're saying here. Perhaps it's the grammar.
The Conspirator wrote:
thats only if Christianity is true which is very, very highly unlikely.

We'll just have to agree to differ. Religion involves partly personal experience. And my personal experience with God has left me in no doubt of the sort of being he is: incomprehendable but trustworthy, powerful and loving. To suggest that He doesn't even exist is, in my experience, a laughable suggestion. Since you obviously have no experience or desire for experience of religion, you'll keep thinking that Christianity is very unlikely until you're ... by which time it'll be too late. Hard luck there.
The Conspirator
Saying "If I'm right I go to heavon" is stupid cause any one can turn that argumint on its head and say "If you don't beleve this religon your going to hell"
mgumn
Fire Boar wrote:
[

But regardless, atheism is the one sure-fire way of having a rotten afterlife...atheism there is no chance.


why? I live my life by a strict moral code, called conscience. i don't do it to keep god, or any other deity happy, i do it for myself because i believe it is right and just. Atheists arent running around having rampant sex, injecting drugs, eating babies etc. I think that i am a much nicer that alot of the people i know who call themselves "christian"
haak_heu
i m still search for right path , but i believe islam is better than all other
religions , i believ budhisim is Good religion it say for humanity.

if my believe get wrong i will change them and the believes which i see
are right ,i will follow them.

there is few things which are sure for me and i think they cant be wrong

There is only One GOD
Universe and all things in it are created havt created them selfs
ALL religions basics is humanity
( dont harm others , dont lie , dont drink alcohol or drugs dont do adultry
dont do what called wrong things)
So , i see things which are common in religion are certain
they will never change , they are true

but few religions have totally wrong believes that is satanism and few afirican other wise All say same basic things , but religous people and followers of religion say for that they and they only go to heaven and other not i dont believe in them

All people do good get good , do bad get bad .
The Conspirator
Quote:
but few religions have totally wrong believes that is satanism


You know satanism is not devil worship, satanists do not go out and kill little animals and children. Most satanists are LaVeyan satanists who don't believe in Satan or God, its basically an atheists, humanist philosophy. Why is it called satanism? Satanists will say its cause it was started in the 60's and LaVeay was a non conformist of something along those lines but I say he named hid book the Satanic Bible cause he know it would cause controversy and drive book sells and make him money.
There are those that worship Satan but thats called luciferianism and they don't worship the Christan idea of Satan, there mostly neo pagan who worship a go names Lucifer, Satan or Lucifer and Satan as separate gods.
TheSk8ingFreak
This would not be a bad thing at all, even in a small way! You said it yourself. You said something about, what if this thing that all culture had been built around was wrong. THAT'S EXACTLY IT! Its okay if our religion and beliefs are wrong as long as we never find out. Confusing? Totally! Let me explain. Where would we be if culture had developed differently? With no morals, worship, rights, or (most importantly) hope that there is something better to look forward to. Well I'll tell you what we would be like! Well actually I can't because we wouldn't "be". I'm meaning, we would certainly not exist! With those things that I mentioned before: With no morals, worship, rights, or (most importantly) hope that there is something better to look forward to.... No Morals: War like you wouldn't belive, theft, arsson, sabotage, etc. No Worship: you would have no knowledge of how to respect love or care! No Rights: Forget democracy or any type of government at all! No Hope: This is the most important, because if you had no hope of something better... what's the point of living (or reproducing the species) anyways? Eh?
Roald
I believe in what Jesus said, love everybody, this is in all religions the same, so if Christianity would be wrong, all other religions would be wrong, the basic is just always the same.
The Czar
Yay ... I believe in my religion Islam. Christianity and Islam have some stuff nearly same. Jesus is Isa, Mosses Is Musa, David Is Daud, Noah Is Nuh and much more ...

If Islam was wrong then what religion is correct?

I will stay loyal and will not stray from my religion.
Roald
The Czar wrote:
Yay ... I believe in my religion Islam. Christianity and Islam have some stuff nearly same. Jesus is Isa, Mosses Is Musa, David Is Daud, Noah Is Nuh and much more ...

If Islam was wrong then what religion is correct?

I will stay loyal and will not stray from my religion.
Indeed all religions are the same, so they can't be wrong.
althalus
I'm an atheist. If my religion (or rather, lack thereof) proves to be wrong, then all the better. I feel I'm missing out in not belonging to any religious clique, where I'd be surrounded by people feeling the same way about things as myself (generalised).

On the other hand, I wouldn't force any religion upon myself, hence, it'd be a win win situation.
novisdesign
If Christianity is fake, Jesus would still be a great man that I would like to be like.

Makes no difference really.
-GS
Winterborne
I'm actually amazed how many christians post in the forums. It's kind of amusing to me how much of my former reasoning shows up in each one of their posts.

I use to be a christian. Now... I wouldn't even call my beliefs a religion. I have my own path.

I won't get into how or why I no longer concider myself a christian, as that is not the point of this topic. However, I do realize that Christian's (including me when I was one) avoid answering the entire question. It's what if you're wrong? What if you wake up and find out one day that everything you had known or supported in life was not the way you were supposed to be living to get to heaven, or whatever the ultimate final resting place would be. What if you didn't find out until 'judgement day?'

This is not an attack, so put down your razor sharp tongues. I'm just trying to get a real answer out of some of you.

As for me, I've thought about this topic alot since I left christianity. What if I was right to begin with, and now i'm going to hell? Well, I guess I deserve it. Once I know it's going to be too late to change it. Then again what if some other religion is correct and I was wrong either way? *shrugs* I'm not actually sure if I would really care that much. I mean, I would at the time I found out I'm sure. But in the grand scale of things... does it really matter?
silentlythinking21
I, like others, believe in a combination of religions and my own ideas. I don't think that I might be wrong, I know I'm wrong somewhere. However, i believe that whatever God or Gods is/are up there, they would understand the fogginess that surrounds religion, and hopefully forgive me in some way. The real problem is what happens when people think their religion is the only way. I looked at ebaumsworld, and went directly to the complaint email page (nothin else was interesting). Half of them were berating him for his horrid site, and the other half were trying to convert him to christianity. I think that whether or not we are wrong, it is not our right to force our beliefs on anyone else.

of course, christianity isn't the only religion that has people who do this, and I'm not implying it is inferior or superior to any other religion
a_dubDesign
novisdesign wrote:
If Christianity is fake, Jesus would still be a great man that I would like to be like.

me too.

I've thought about this numerous times actually. If I end up in in some place of everlasting torment because what I believed was wrong, I can take comfort in the fact that those beliefs led me to love and help others throughout my (hopefully)long life.
Roald
If my believes are wrong, it wouldn't be bad: I haven't done anything very bad (yet).
nopaniers
If my beliefs are wrong then I will change them.
Roald
nopaniers wrote:
If my beliefs are wrong then I will change them.
This is a good one Cool .But I think that you will only know that your believes are wrong (if they are wrong) when you die, when you appear before God, Satan, Allah ,... (if they exists)
Rethink

I have to say that even if you are a athist you are still living under the span of Christianity by living in the united states, due to the fact that our social norms are based on the key beliefs of Christianity. So if you believe that what are social norms say are "good" or "right" then you are therefore saying that the key beliefs of Christianity are correct. Example Murder is "un-Just" Wink
Captain Fertile
If my ideas are wrong then I will be no worse off but I will have lived a happier, more rewarding life, rewrding for me and rewarding for others due to me different outlook.

I fervently believe my faith makes me a better person than I was without it.

Whether or not a God exists living a life by a code of morals is usually a better thing in my experience - certainly better than lving without a thought or care for others which is kind of the way I lived before.
Aredon
Winterborne wrote:
...avoid answering the entire question. It's what if you're wrong? What if you wake up and find out one day that everything you had known or supported in life was not the way you were supposed to be living to get to heaven, or whatever the ultimate final resting place


This is becuase christianity has one major aspect to it:
Quote:
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Quote:
John 3:15
that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Quote:
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Quote:
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Quote:
John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.


All these say basicaly the same thing and are only a small portion of a slew of them. It is said over and over again, by doubting your faith you have abandoned it. In truth if you ever get a christian to answer your question the way you are looking for. They are not a true christian.



Rethink wrote:

I have to say that even if you are a athist you are still living under the span of Christianity by living in the united states, due to the fact that our social norms are based on the key beliefs of Christianity. So if you believe that what are social norms say are "good" or "right" then you are therefore saying that the key beliefs of Christianity are correct. Example Murder is "un-Just" Wink


Wrong, "social norms" such as the one you posted are shared by many religions. In almost every religion there is a value of human life, IE no murder. What is "good" and "right" is shared by nearly every religion on the face of the planet. What is good and right is common sence and is defined by the society in which it exists. Though christianity may have had some influence on the laws of our world, it does not affect someone who is not christian who wants to think that something is right and something else is wrong.

Aside from that your point is invalid. They don't claim a religion, that doesn't mean that they don't recognize the influence of religion.
LovE-RicH
Fire Boar wrote:
I am a Christian.

If Christianity is wrong:
  • I will not have lost anything.
  • I will not be able to regret my religious decisions (because I would be ).
  • No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right (because they would be ).
  • I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.



Wrong answer. If Christianity is wrong and one of the other thousands of religions is correct, you will lose everything. You will go to their hell for not believeing in their God and suffer an eternity of torture. Don't be so naive by saying "I will not have lost anything". Other religions can easily use Pascal's wager, too.
rvec
Wouldn't it be the best thing to just live life and be nice to everybody? That way you would have the best life possible if there is nothing after this life.

And by being nice I think you would have the greatest chance going to heaven.
Captain Fertile
rvec wrote:
Wouldn't it be the best thing to just live life and be nice to everybody? That way you would have the best life possible if there is nothing after this life.

And by being nice I think you would have the greatest chance going to heaven.


Well said and a good way to live your life.
silkmesh
We are all confused.

Those who have faith are still unsure

Those who say they disbelieve ask for gods help when their in a dangerous situation.

An atheist is likely to ask forgiveness before he dies just in case there is a heaven.

None of us can be sure as we are scared.

Don't worry what ever happens, happens, meanwhile just live your life the best way you can. If you need a supernatural being to lean on because you are scared, so be it.

We are all so unsure of ourself's, most of us put on a false front and say we are not. The universe is so big and we are but a small carbon based being on a grain of sand.

Regards
Whong
Faith is not seeing or hearing or knowing that it is true, because faith has no proof! But faith is believing that the things that you believe are true no matter what anybody says no matter how odd it seems. Faith is more then knowing and faith is an important part of our lives.

Jesus is the way to heaven, who ever has faith in him won't perish! Wink
This is what I believe! Idea And it is a very important thing for me!
silkmesh
Your brainwashed.

Your a slave to the Roman Empire.

Your thinking is 2000 years old and you have been indocrinated into a cult that was devised by people that were less inteligent than you.

Read the bible from cover to cover, with an open mind and your realise if you are wise that it's myths, contridictral, full of laws and that it depicts vidictive jeolous god playing games with mere mortals. Just an update, revamped religion that follows similarities to the old religion such as dipicted by greek mythology.

Hark at you you have been brainwashed into brainwashing others its like an infective virus. The cure can be found at the source of the infection THE BIBLE. Read it properly my friend and you will be cured.

At present you can not even think for your self its a form of insanity.

Best regards
SyncM
The most important is not what religion you belive the important is the way you belive. Most religion have way that will make pepole better to other pepole. The way that you evolve in your belif and find solace is important.
Soulfire
I could give you the "real" answer and say we, as Christians (using the word Christian lightly here), are the only correct ones and everyone else is going to Hell.

That stuck-up attitude is an underlying tone in Christianity, even if most won't admit it. Let's face facts: it's based on the fact that "we know everything" and that "our laws come from the Bible" etc.

But in reality, if we're wrong, I see a couple things happening:
1) Nothing (i.e. no life after death)
2) Some other religion is right and the Christians are in their Hell

At any rate, believe what you're going to believe. I will always be a God-fearing man, but I believe that God loves ALL of us, not just a select few called "Christians."
silkmesh
Hi TheSk8ingFreak,

There is war and wars have been between religious groups. Kings, Emperiors, dictators have always used the term "God is on our side".

Morals and good laws, however are very important, its them that makes us humans civalised. Religious doctrine, brainwashing is not the backbone of society, reality is better than false hopes and false faiths.

Modern man must rid it self of religous trash and grow up and face reality, man made gods are not on the side of man but hinder peace and freedom of thought

Regard

Bob
paul_indo
Any belief "could" be wrong.

That is why it is called belief rather than knowledge.

We try to base our beliefs on knowledge for sure, but the belief continues where the knowledge runs out.

I agree with those who say that living a good and fulfilling life will provide a satisfactory outcome even if our beliefs are incorrect.
dwinton
I believe it was Rene Descartes who said "I believe in God because if God doesn't exist then I have lost nothing but if he does and I do not believe in him I will go to hell." I, however, do not have religion. I have a slew of arguments against the existence of God but I don't think there is any value in these arguments as you will not change a persons views on the subject.

Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything just give him time to rationalize it. Forgive me for being blunt. ~ Robert Heinlein

From that quote, I know that I will not convince the other person to come to atheism. Similarly, I know I cannot be convinced to come to faith.

Ultimately, religion cannot be argued by logic. Religion is supposed to hold you when logic tells you that you are lost. For this reason it does not matter if religion is false, what matters is that we believe.

As a final note, I would like to quote Voltaire. "It is religion that keeps man from committing those private crimes."
silkmesh
its religion that makes man able to commit crime as man thinks he can be forbidden or that war is okay as gods on the side of the winner

of course the losers think gods on their side too

the church mosque synogog and temples are more filled up by sinners than non sinners

the laundry: dirty linen in and clean out

its all crazy

man needs to stand on his own two feet and not have false staffs to lean on
cvkien
see how you determine how wrong was it. but i believe someone believe on some belief to pray god. i think not a problem because as long as there is god in your heart. with god, you may do things good, be nice to everyone and so on. unless that belief asking you to not believe in god, or doing harm to people.
silkmesh
A human is able to be a non believer in god and still be a good human acceptible to all those whom feel they have god in their hearts

Would someone born deep in a jungle or high in the mountain that never heard about any god, but of whom led a good life, did little wrong a very good man. He would be still worthy by any faith to have an entrance to heaven just as you should have.

A man that does not have God in his heart but a knowledge of what is right or wrong and leads a good life, is in fact a better than a man that has god in his heart and stumbles sins once or twice. He that man has a better chance at the gates of heaven.

I am not of your religion, but I understand it

Best Wishes

Bob Johnson-Perkins
Soulfire
But I would always err on the side of caution.

That is to say, if you're an atheist - congratulations, you've damned yourself!

If there is a God - why not take a chance on God? Instead, people choose atheist, which is a lose-lose situation (or at best a lose-tie situation). Whereas if you, like I earlier said, err on the side of caution (though that phrase doesn't do justice), it could be a win or lose kind of thing.

There is no rational, any whatsoever, to deny the existence of God.
silkmesh
I can not understand myself the scientific view that leads Atheism, some of the worlds scientific brightest minds could not consider, or say they consider there is an ultimate creator.

To my thinking thats a bit stupid as the Big Bang theory only starts at the Big Bang, there has to be an answer how all this star dust our Universe appeared from an explosion or implosion. To a logic point of view you just cant make something out of nothing, something, some super inteligence or entity must be behind the creation of the Big Bang.

But no to them a set of equations, theories prove there is no God

If I was an atheist, maybe I would be shallow minded as they are, but perhaps most people call themselfs Atheist to shock others or could be to look scietifically brain modern world thinker.

But there again if God does exist and he is evercaring and ever forgiving an Atheist that leads a good moral life will be let in to Heaven.
Indi
Soulfire wrote:
But I would always err on the side of caution.

That is to say, if you're an atheist - congratulations, you've damned yourself!

If there is a God - why not take a chance on God? Instead, people choose atheist, which is a lose-lose situation (or at best a lose-tie situation). Whereas if you, like I earlier said, err on the side of caution (though that phrase doesn't do justice), it could be a win or lose kind of thing.

You sound quite sure of yourself. What if, hypothetically, it came to pass that everyone died and appeared before the creator - "God" - and he looked at us and said: "What the f**k is the matter with you people? i gave you an entire universe to explore, millions of brothers and sisters to get to know and enjoy, limitless potentional... and you wasted your lives in baroque old buildings worshipping an idea of me you heard from a lunatic criminal in ancient times? You know what? Everyone who was stupid enough to believe that crap, over there. No eternity for you because i don't want stupid, gullible people in my eternity. The rest of you, those of you that believed only what was reasonable, you guys can come with me."

The problem with Pascal's wager is that it requires a failure of imagination to actually accept it as valid. It requires you to believe "it has to my way... or no way!" There are not just two possibilities. There are infinite possibilities. You say the options are "believe and survive vs. don't believe and be damned", i say why not "don't believe and survive vs. believe and die". The only answer you can give: "faith".

Soulfire wrote:
There is no rational, any whatsoever, to deny the existence of God.

Actually, that's true. But incomplete.

As a matter of fact, there is no need to deny the existence of god. You don't need a reason to do it because you don't even need to do it at all. The non-existence of god is the default assumption. There is also no rational reason to deny the existence of trolls. Or smurfs. Or leprechauns. If you ask me if i deny the existence of god, i answer: "No. i just don't care about the question." One of my favourite atheist quotes is: "An atheist doesn't have to be someone who thinks he has a proof that there can't be a god. He only has to be someone who believes that the evidence on the God question is at a similar level to the evidence on the werewolf question."

However, there is no rational reason to assert the existence of trolls, smurfs, leprechauns... or god.

silkmesh wrote:
I can not understand myself the scientific view that leads Atheism, some of the worlds scientific brightest minds could not consider, or say they consider there is an ultimate creator.

Atheism has nothing to do with science, and vice versa.

silkmesh wrote:
To my thinking thats a bit stupid as the Big Bang theory only starts at the Big Bang, there has to be an answer how all this star dust our Universe appeared from an explosion or implosion. To a logic point of view you just cant make something out of nothing, something, some super inteligence or entity must be behind the creation of the Big Bang.

And where did the intelligence or entity come from?

This is a form of the cosmological argument, that says that for all effects there must be a cause, so the big bang must have had a cause - that is, god. But what caused god? If you can say that nothing caused god, or that god always was... why can't you say that about the big bang?

It's an empty argument.

silkmesh wrote:
But no to them a set of equations, theories prove there is no God

There are no equations or scientific theories that prove there is no god.
mike1reynolds
I agree with Indi that atheists dont automatically go to hell. However, when I was an atheist I did not argue in an attempt to convince anyone ever. I considered it a curse to convince anyone that atheism was true. I argued in an attempt to find a good counter argument, but if I knew I wasnt going to get one I would slam my opponents very quickly and move on.

However, if I did get a good counter argument, which only happened on three occasions, each progressively better over the course of about 2 years, then I did not give a knee jerk bigoted reply, I simply sat there wordlessly.

While I dont think Soulfire has a point in general, Indi, I think that he does have a point with regards to you. It is like you have a personal vendetta against God. You arent just arguing to test out ideas, you are an atheist evangelist of the worst sort. I think Soufire is right, your can expect about the same treatment that bigoted fundamentalist preachers will get on judgment day, which will be quite harsh I suspect.
socialoutcast
Quote:
But no to them a set of equations, theories prove there is no God


I think this just may be it. Theories, That's all they are. Theories constantly being tested against our current knowage and new discoveries of the things around us. Such explenations have done wonders the human race. I mean that people are living longer, diseses being cured, we are even understanding how might we control things before they begin. Well, knowlegde has certainly increased to the point that we can back anything up with anything discovered--even our beginnings. With such an increased in this knowledge we can even reinforce old theories or invent new ones to our satistfaction. It could be said that we are like gods with the abililty to prolong long death but not stop it. One reality that exists is that death is an end.

We as humans have gained so much of this knowledge that we don't even know what to make of all it; how can we possible comprehind it it all even as a collective human? There are indeed accounts of unexplainable things happening long ago that still cannot be explained by our current set of knowledge. So what do we do? We use what we already know to disprove events that already happened or deny there exsistants. So consider this. How much is that we do not know?

Death is an end to it all, exept for one man, if you call Him a man, but really He was both man and God. The thing about God is simply, well He's God. As what God does is anything he wants to. It does not matter what we know. Our human minds are finite, they die. Anyway, this Man this God, Jesus, the Son of the all powerful God beyond our comprehension is not bound by human limiits. Thus he not bound by death. Sure you can refute the resurrection if you want to, but it's pointles, why? Because He's God. If God wants to create a universe out of nothing He can. We don't need to understand how He does it for we understand it fully.

The good news is that we can know how to find understand for ourselves and how we live. This does not take rocket science or quantum physics, but a personnal relation with Jesus. This is something that cannot be explained by science or equations. To get to know the ways of God is not a to look for Him here under a rock, but what is said about Him. This requires a more personnal study of Him. If you want to find God don't go looking under things which He is not bound to or what other people have said for this is not person. That is only research. To search for that relationship, to fill the void of what if missing you must go directly to the source.

This may not sound "logical" to most of you, but if you devoldge into the task to unravoling the mistories of the universe, you'll end up with a fat head that will only die in the end because death is unavoidable.

Love God, love people, drink coffee
www.socialoutcast.co.nr

"wikipedia is not research."
silkmesh
Yes to your opinion



One logic answer is:

God

The other is

Nothing

Another is:

An accident

There is an answer and we will never find out as we are not that clever

But have you heard about the chicken and egg, which came first?

If you do not believe in evolution this also a problem thats hard to answer.

Your negitive remark shows that you have give into a textbook answer I wonder what you really think. I feel your not sure your right.

Its horrible to realise there is somethings scientific theories and maths end at a blank wall, we are not that clever with out witnesses to the event, we can only find something to our own mind that is exeptable.

The late Douglas Adams gave a better answer to the whole question why do we exist and the beginning of creation. Why not take time to read his great works and lighten up.

Have a very good day.
mike1reynolds
At the end of Adams' last book all the main characters are killed. Any "everybody dies" ending hardly seems light to me... The genocide of humans at the beginning of the first book is offset by a large number of truly humorous ironies, but by the last book it just isn't funny anymore. Adams gets progressively more morbid and his jokes get more and more pathetically silly rather than genuinely humorous, so that the final re-genocide of all Earths in all timestreams that were missed by the Vogons originally, is not counterbalanced by anything funny at all. It is just shockingly morbid and distasteful. You get the impression Adams died a bitter old man despite wealth, fame and fortune.
LovE-RicH
A heads up!

Christians and Atheists to Debate the Existence of God on ABC
Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort of the Way of the Master will debate Brian Sapient and Kelly of the Rational Response Squad in the first "Nightline Face Off"!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3130360&page=1

The discussion is set to be recorded on Saturday May 5th at 7:30 pm est. The discussion was supposed to air on ABC's website starting at 2pm est on Wednesday May 9th, but now it looks they changed their mind. Later that same night at 11:35 in your local timezone you can tune in to ABC TV to watch Nightline and you will see a recap of the discussion.

The Rational Response Squad will retain a copy of the recording and be able to distribute it to you for free viewing at some point, so check out thier site, too.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/

This is the first real big Atheists vs Christians debate on a mainstream TV station, make sure not to miss it!Smile
wise
We must believe in ourselves that's important. You ppl still remember the 11 of September?? How is it that people get influenced that Islam is such and such. If we get indulged in those talks we are bound to do such criminal acts. I feel that we must believe in ourselves and what is right. We cannot pass judgment on others.
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