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Computer stopped working, need motherboard replacement





snowboardalliance
Ok, about a week ago, my computer got messed up after a few days of a power outage. The computer would turn on, but only the fans turned on, with no display or power leds. My dad checked the voltage of the 20 pin connector and everything was ok. We also tried removing all the PCI cards but that didn't do it. Since the power supply seemed fine, he had me return the motherboard under warranty. I'm hoping that was the problem but anyway, here is my question.

Newegg offered http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813123258 as a comparable board to my oout of stock biostar nforce4 ultra. I can get that or a $70 refund. I was thinking I would take the board, but does anyone have any reason why I shouldn't take that board?
I have to respond in a few days but I just wanted some feedback.
Saber
just to let you know, it might be your ram, and not your mobo.
snowboardalliance
Saber wrote:
just to let you know, it might be your ram, and not your mobo.


well the motherboard is being replaced for free now anyway. But how would I know if it is the RAM? My dad was thinking it could also be the processor. Could something get screwed up if I tried running it and the RAM was messed up?
Thanks
Saber
Well im sorry to say, the only way that I know of testing to see if its the ram thats causing the problem is to test with ram that you know works. With two variables, cpu and ram, you need to have one or the other work for testing the other.(as far as I know)

If you have a friend that has the same stuff as you do(and make sure that its the same... so you dont cause more problems) then replace your ram/cpu, and try to boot it. If it boots then your problem is solved, the ram/cpu that you replaced was the problem.

But if it doesnt boot then put your ram/cpu back in and replace the other.

If it still doesnt boot then I'm sorry to say.. that then both are dead(this is if you know the motherboard works).

If people know of another way please do tell...
Xeniczone
Motherboard Opition
    one thing I like to look for is a reliable Chip Set.

    That means a Intel chipset. A nVidia chipset. But I wouldn't go with a SiS or Via chipset. Last time I went with them I ended up with some pci cards not working correctly



    What you have here is a nVidia Chipset. good, This overall is a good motherboard. It has good ratings and has quite a few nice features.
    The only thing you will find useless is the PCI Express x1 Their are not the graphic x16, but no company produces cards for these.


If it was your ram it should do some sort of boot up. If the ram was faulty.
So you should see something on the screen.

If it was your CPU. You would see nothing on the screen. Then you should but not always. Hear beeping.

No beeping. No screen flicker or anything could say that your motherboard is dead. The problem is the motherboard can't function without a cpu and it is hard to tell the difference.



Is it possible that you could record this computer booting up then put it into a compressed Mpg format or something?
snowboardalliance
Xeniczone wrote:
Motherboard Opition
    one thing I like to look for is a reliable Chip Set.

    That means a Intel chipset. A nVidia chipset. But I wouldn't go with a SiS or Via chipset. Last time I went with them I ended up with some pci cards not working correctly



    What you have here is a nVidia Chipset. good, This overall is a good motherboard. It has good ratings and has quite a few nice features.
    The only thing you will find useless is the PCI Express x1 Their are not the graphic x16, but no company produces cards for these.


If it was your ram it should do some sort of boot up. If the ram was faulty.
So you should see something on the screen.

If it was your CPU. You would see nothing on the screen. Then you should but not always. Hear beeping.

No beeping. No screen flicker or anything could say that your motherboard is dead. The problem is the motherboard can't function without a cpu and it is hard to tell the difference.



Is it possible that you could record this computer booting up then put it into a compressed Mpg format or something?


Well there was no beeping or anything. Just the fans would turn on. I'm going to getthat replacement board. If the CPU is the problem, it should at least make some beeping sounds right? I guess I won't really know for a few days while I wait on the shipment.
Xeniczone
If the CPU is the problem and you have a new motherboard then nothing will show up on the screen.

Did you already order the new computer. I forgot to tell you to try this.

Take the battery of the motherboard out and unplug the powersuppy. Leave it for 10 mins. (for the power supplys compassiters to drain there energy) The motherboards Bios will reset and any problems should be fixed.
snowboardalliance
Xeniczone wrote:
If the CPU is the problem and you have a new motherboard then nothing will show up on the screen.

Did you already order the new computer. I forgot to tell you to try this.

Take the battery of the motherboard out and unplug the powersuppy. Leave it for 10 mins. (for the power supplys compassiters to drain there energy) The motherboards Bios will reset and any problems should be fixed.


I already sent it. Thanks for the tip, but it's ok, newegg is giving me a free board so I'll just hope the CPU is still okay. If it does end up being a CPU problem, do you know anything about AMD's warranty policy? Because when my dad pulled out the CPU, it stuck to the heatsink with whatever thermal paste came with it. That meant the lever wasnt open and like 3 pins on one end got slightly bent. Would that void my warranty? They aren't bent too bad, like I think it should still fit back into the motherboard, and it wasn't really my fault that the thermal paste got it stuck right?
Xeniczone
I don't know. You could easily try to bend them back just not to far or you may break them if you bend them too much. You may need some new thermal paste try Artic I think it is called.

All I can say is lucky you don't have a pentium 4 because their heat sinks are literally glued to the motherboard and you would probably have to break the motherboard to get them off.
psycosquirrel
Xeniczone wrote:
I don't know. You could easily try to bend them back just not to far or you may break them if you bend them too much.


NONONONO do not try to bend back pins unless you know EXACTLY how to do it. Practice on old CPUs so you can get used to exactly how much force you need to apply until the pin is back in place. I was once told to do the same thing you are about to do, and I ruined an old AMD processor in the process. Luckily, it was a P3, so it was nearly worthless.... It seems like a no-brainer, but it is much better to get someone else to do it.


Xeniczone wrote:
All I can say is lucky you don't have a pentium 4 because their heat sinks are literally glued to the motherboard and you would probably have to break the motherboard to get them off.


Uh, what are you smoking? No they are not. Pentium sockets and AMD sockets are VERY similar. The core architecture is VERY different though...


The thermal paste is called Artic Silver 5. Search for it on Newegg. I have heard nothing wrong with the Epox board, but I have never heard anything good about it either. I think it is the type of board that is just average for everything. It should be fine.


As for AMD's warrantee policy, they would not consider the pin damage a manufacturers defect, so they would not replace it. Therefore, you should see if a local computer store could fix up your processor (unbend pins and remove+reapply heatsink).


It sounds like you had a faulty motherboard, but after this fiasco, it sounds like you may have given yourself a faulty processor. Then again, I have an AMD 1800+ I found in my closet on the ground with more than 20 bent pins. I fixed it and it works fine to this day. Hopefully the new motherboard will fix your problems.
Xeniczone
Quote:
NONONONO do not try to bend back pins unless you know EXACTLY how to do it. Practice on old CPUs so you can get used to exactly how much force you need to apply until the pin is back in place. I was once told to do the same thing you are about to do, and I ruined an old AMD processor in the process. Luckily, it was a P3, so it was nearly worthless.... It seems like a no-brainer, but it is much better to get someone else to do it.


Wow, what did you expect the guy to do try as hard as he could in the first try. I never had a problem with breaking them. When they where bent just putting them back using a small tip tool, but I guess you could take his advice and try on a different cpu if you don't feel conforable with it.

Quote:
Uh, what are you smoking? No they are not. Pentium sockets and AMD sockets are VERY similar. The core architecture is VERY different though...


Pentium 4 sockets you have to PUSH 4 individual pins into the board once they have been pushed in they lock. You would have to bend back the pastic of the part of the heat sink that locked it so you can pull it back up. Putting them in also is hard. I have cracked a motherboard before I was able to get the stupid thing down.

Which are you refering to the ones dell uses. God.
snowboardalliance
psycosquirrel wrote:

As for AMD's warrantee policy, they would not consider the pin damage a manufacturers defect, so they would not replace it. Therefore, you should see if a local computer store could fix up your processor (unbend pins and remove+reapply heatsink).


Well first of all, I mean, if the processor was messed up before hand. And also, they aren't that bent. Like, I think it would still drop right in the socket and straighten it self out. But would the added fact that the pins are slightly bent screw up my warranty?

Anyway, I also realized, I'm going to need to get the heatsink off of the processor because it is practically glued on. Any tips? And when I do, does using thermal paste that didn't come with the heatsink void your warranty? Because using any other heatsink does.
Xeniczone
If it is really hard to remove the heat sink I would try to much. You could damage the cpu. I had a 486 with this problem and and Damaged it a lot and still didn't get the heat sink off.
psycosquirrel
Quote:
Uh, what are you smoking? No they are not. Pentium sockets and AMD sockets are VERY similar. The core architecture is VERY different though...


Pentium 4 sockets you have to PUSH 4 individual pins into the board once they have been pushed in they lock. You would have to bend back the pastic of the part of the heat sink that locked it so you can pull it back up. Putting them in also is hard. I have cracked a motherboard before I was able to get the stupid thing down.

Which are you refering to the ones dell uses. God.[/quote]

Laughing No, they are not dell ones. My P4 is a custom socket 478 system built from scratch with an Asus mobo. The socket is almost identical to that of my 462's...

As for the heatsink, you can definently damage it or even chip or crack it by pulling on it too hard. I think Artic Silver makes a removal compound... But it is intended for cleaning thermal compound, not forcing the heatsinks off.

If the pins will straighten themselves out in the socket, then go slow and push it in gently (make sure the lever is up first too Laughing ) to make sure they go in correctly and are not broken off in the socket itself... Using aftermarket heatsinks or thermal compounds cannot void your warantee if you got your processor OEM, but it may if you got it retail...
snowboardalliance
Ok well I read some stuff on the AMD forums and I guess I'll try what some recommended and use a hair dryer to soften the thermal compound. Once I get it off, I'll try my best to wipe the stuff off (I've heard rubbing alcohol is the way to do it) then replace the thermal compound. I'll know if it all went ok once I get the board from newegg (should be like 3 days tops).
Xeniczone
Quote:
No, they are not dell ones. My P4 is a custom socket 478 system built from scratch with an Asus mobo. The socket is almost identical to that of my 462's...


Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall

I wasn't talking about the old crudy Pentium 4's

I'm talking about the Newer ones Prescott Socket T (774 something mon signdibnaosef-jetson)
psycosquirrel
Oh, that explains it Laughing The LGA755 heatsink is a stubborn one, but it is still not GLUED on... It is just screwed down excessively tight and near-impossible to remove.
Xeniczone
Quote:
but it is still not GLUED on... It is just screwed down excessively tight and near-impossible to remove.


Same thing.
snowboardalliance
Well I just had some more bad luck. I got out a hair dryer and got the thermal compound heated to a paste and it started to slide off. I twisted it and then i popped off and fell right on the carpet. I bent about 4 more pins enough that I'll have to straighten them out. My dad says it should be fine and it probably didn't get fried by static. I just wanted to know, has anyone ever dropped a processor on the carpet (pin side) and had it still work? Also, any recommendations for bending pins back? My dad thinks needle nose pliers and I have also heard of sliding something thin like a knife in between the rows of pins.

I'm really hoping I'm not screwed, but if I am, I guess I'll be forced into an upgrade.
Xeniczone
Quote:
I just wanted to know, has anyone ever dropped a processor on the carpet (pin side) and had it still work? Also, any recommendations for bending pins back? My dad thinks needle nose pliers and I have also heard of sliding something thin like a knife in between the rows of pins.


You should be fine. A static discharge is from something collecting all the static first. This wouldn't happen on your carpet. It would happen more on door handle and human hands.

Just when you do it use hte needle nose and carefully do it. little movements at a time.
snowboardalliance
EDIT AGAIN: nevermind, found the CD, it was in the packaging box outside the motherboard box. Still getting that message below though

EDIT:

Also, whenever I turn it on, there is the normal screen but it also says:
Quote:
Warning! Now System is in Safe Mode
Please re-setting CPU Frequency in the CMOS setup


And is it normal that my CPU temp is about 5 degrees Celcius higher than before if I used new thermal compund, but there was still some residue from the old stuff that wouldn't come out.
Xeniczone
I think it is saying you have it overclocked in the Bios.
psycosquirrel
Actually that means the fsb the proc is giving out does not match the one the motherboard is expecting... And ESD can come from almost anything, not just human hands Rolling Eyes ESD is simply where there is a difference in the charge between two objects. When they are touched, the charge equalizes and can cause damage with sensitive components. You should be fine on the whole static thing, I have an AMD that I found on the floor of my closet buried beneath a bunch of junk and it works fine...

Reset the BIOS with the CMOS jumper on your motherboard, that should fix it.

Bending the pins back... Use your fingernail, go slowly, and do one at a time.
snowboardalliance
psycosquirrel wrote:
Reset the BIOS with the CMOS jumper on your motherboard, that should fix it.


Do you think that would be the problem even if I never changed any BIOS settings? I'll try it later when I have a minute.

EDIT:

Just did it and I still got the message and it also said
Quote:
CMOS checksum error - Defaults loaded
Xeniczone
Does it work?

If not set your jumpers back.

Reset the bios by not allowing it power.

Unplug the powersuppy.
Take out the battery.

Now leave it for 20-40 mins. It only takes seconds to reset, but you must let the power supply drain its compasitors.
snowboardalliance
Xeniczone wrote:
Does it work?

If not set your jumpers back.

Reset the bios by not allowing it power.

Unplug the powersuppy.
Take out the battery.

Now leave it for 20-40 mins. It only takes seconds to reset, but you must let the power supply drain its compasitors.


Is that different than resetting the CMOS? Because it did reset, but still has the same message. It didn't surprise me since the BIOS settings should have all been default before the reset.
Xeniczone
I'm sorry I'm not exaccly sure what the CMOS is. I use Mac and they don't use Bioses.

I think it is refering to a Cd rom not hooked up right. Like you have 2 masters on the same bus.

I may also be saying you have a bad OS or a old OS. Windows 98 will not run on newer computers.

I can't remeber the error it gives you if you try.
snowboardalliance
Xeniczone wrote:
I'm sorry I'm not exaccly sure what the CMOS is. I use Mac and they don't use Bioses.

I think it is refering to a Cd rom not hooked up right. Like you have 2 masters on the same bus.

I may also be saying you have a bad OS or a old OS. Windows 98 will not run on newer computers.

I can't remeber the error it gives you if you try.


Ummm, so you basically have no idea what the error is?

I did a quick google and the best I found was a bad german translation here
psycosquirrel
All computers have some sort of BIOS.


Taking out the battery and everything will have the same effect as the CMOS thing.


What processor do you have? If you have a high-end motherboard, you can manually change the fsb settings in BIOS... But if it is not seeing the processor's default frequency, then that means your processor is probably dead.
Xeniczone
Quote:
All computers have some sort of BIOS.


Sorry for the Off topic but... DID YOU NOT HEAR ME THE FIRST TIME. MACS DON'T HAVE BIOSes. They use Firmware. Like a game system. Xbox, gamecube, Playstatoin etc...


http://safariexamples.informit.com/0789725576/techref/award.pdf#search='CMOS%20bios%20Error'

Read the third one Down I think that is the error your getting.

I did some searching of my own Except I used Yahoo Razz
snowboardalliance
psycosquirrel wrote:
All computers have some sort of BIOS.


Taking out the battery and everything will have the same effect as the CMOS thing.


What processor do you have? If you have a high-end motherboard, you can manually change the fsb settings in BIOS... But if it is not seeing the processor's default frequency, then that means your processor is probably dead.


Well I don't think the processor is dead, because everything works, I just get that message when I turn on the computer.
Xeniczone
Quote:
Well I don't think the processor is dead, because everything works, I just get that message when I turn on the computer.


Read my post before it. I gave you the answer.

But I will post it instead of sending you to that site.

    Checksum of CMOS is incorrect. So the system loads the default equipment configuation. A checksum error may indicate that CMOS has become corrupted. This error my have been caused by a weak battery.
    Check the battery and replace it if necessary.
snowboardalliance
Well that looks like it could be right. I'll email newegg and see if they will send me a battery because they gave me a bad one.
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