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the value of Toilet Paper





rdrs
running the risk of seeing this post degenerate into a very scatological discussion - or even eschatological, as some maintain - I'd still like to hear some comments on the issue.

While packing the stuff for the upcoming camping trip, a member of the party mentioned the importance of taking TP along. Come to think of it, I had indeed let the thing out of the checklist. It so happens that I hate it, very much favouring a sound shower or the use of a bidet instead.

And I fell to thinking - I do recall seeing people every day with the huge 20-roll packages sold at the discount markets, or the industry-grade packets at the office being split around the building. How come it turned out to be such a popular item? It's not particularly hygienic; it's hardly pleasant; and the toilets get clogged every once in a while. Nevertheless, according to Wikipedia, bidet installations are the exception, rather than the rule, in most of the western world.

A bit more research shows how Hindi and Muslim communities use specially designed water containers for the purpose at hand - which hand is a cultural question. And indeed, the hand appears to be the reason behind the appearance of toilet paper (or tissue, or wood, or leaves, or newspaper). It would seem some cultures would rather engage in the seemingly unhygienic pratice of not using water, than making direct hand contact. An anecdotal (and possibly apocriphal story) about a Portuguese ship in Asia puts the captain instructing his hands (ships' hands, that is) to 'wash frequently and thoroughly, using plenty of water'.

Giving proper allowance for situations where water is unavailable, I still think TP's importance is overrated. I really have to wonder at American jokes on seeing the French bidet, or more widespread comments at the Japanese invention of 'luxury toilets'. How indeed did TP achieve its leading position?

Cheers,

Rdrs
joxang
Wow...I seriously hope you're not being...serious.

WHAT DO U USE TO WIPE UR ARS WITH?

And I don't see how toilet paper could remotely be connected with eschatology, let alone how it could 'degenerate' into such a topic. Surely such a transition would elevate the post to something much more philosopical?
rdrs
well, who can be serious when discussing an issue that can be so embarassing, and yet so amusing?

To answer your question, look closer in the topic - paper only comes in question in the event water and soap are not available.

You do have a point concerning the escathology bit - though I added the word purposely. Indeed, I've had a few entertaining discussions on 'the end' of the waste - it's very easy to play around in my language, as both scatology and eschatology are written using the same word, even though the etimologies are different.

In any case, your reply strikes exactly where I wanted: TP assumes an uncanny importance! And most people take that as a fact. Rather than discuss hygienic pratices, I wanted to pick on this all-important household item, which has even suffered shortage periods in the US (ref: wikipedia)!

Please take the discussion lightly. I do find the area surrounding the issue amusing. I even learnt that an european firm has been marketing pitch black TP! How weird can it get..?
Mumpay
hmm, lol you phrased such a nonsense question so eloquently, good job Smile

I've never used a bidet in my life. frankly, it disturbs me a bit. like... bacteria floating around in the bowl, some no doubt airborn, then being blasted into your butt by a jet of water... something about any water coming back up from anywhere inside or near a toilet and washing my posterior really simply disturbs me. Confused

TP stays relatively germ free since it's rolled pretty tight (and if you don't want to use the outer paper, just pull off the first few squares and you get fresh clean squares underneath.

if you've had a particularly messy time of it, simply get some TP, run it under the tap (in a home bathroom, usually the tap is within reaching distance of the toilet) and there you go, even more clean.

jet of water hitting me in the butt? something about that... just not right in my mind.. Razz

Of course this all boils down to what you're used to. I've never ever had a problem with cleanliness from using only TP, it's quite absorbant and gets the job done just fine. I'm sure others never had a problem with cleanliness from a bidet. And i'm sure others HAVE had problems with both.
alkady
I remember a discusion I started a while ago about using Paper Money (Genuine Money, Legal Tender) to wipe your arse like the cultural referrences in TV Shows where they stereotype rich people as using $20 bills to wipe their arse.

The point being, The US Dollar to the Zimbabwean Dollar is worth $100,000 imagine how great you'd feel wiping your arse with $100,000.00
rdrs
Well, I guess that depends on the texture of the paper.. apparently, when a known US manufacturer started printing its catalog with glossy paper, they received some letters of complaint..

On the other hand, I can imagine that if you got hold of those toilet paper bit bearing the Russian Imperial seal, you would be a rich person (in Imperial Russia, that is). Kind of makes one wonder which paper came first - toilet or money. Since the latter reportedly came first, I feel tented to make the connection between the ban on paper money in Ming China and the spread of the Emperor's custom to the rest of the world (TP use was first documented in China around the 14th century).
Duncan Idaho
Wipe your Ars then use a bidet.
mying
how can discuss about toilet paper? r u serious? .....emm..... the toilet paper got value if collect many......... haha........ no la..... if we try to use less toilet paper, then they no need cut down so many of trees to do the papers. This can make our living place less polutions.
alkady
mying wrote:
how can discuss about toilet paper? r u serious? .....emm..... the toilet paper got value if collect many......... haha........ no la..... if we try to use less toilet paper, then they no need cut down so many of trees to do the papers. This can make our living place less polutions.


Toilet paper is usually made out of recycled paper anyway. The problem isnt the toilet paper, Its the makers and their policy of choosing either new material or used.
Aless
I think it's silly that there's about 22324543 different variations on the same theme. Paper is paper - so long as it gets the job done, who cares how cushiony soft & overpriced it is! I buy storebrand. Pointless otherwise.
sibbahz
I personally have never used a bidet, dont have one in the house to use.
Using someone elses would just make me feel ill.
Never really thought about it but in the UK i dont know of anyone who doesnt have toilet rolls in the house.
vsnl
Cool
kung_fu_stu
Tiolet paper has popularity because it it the most convenient. You're sitting on the can, you reach over, you rip, then you wipe. Can't get any simpler than that. As far as being hygenic; you have to wash your hands, after the fact, no matter what method of cleaning your rump you use. It's your butt, do what you want with it!
coolclay
The reason I think bidets aren't more widely used in the states, is because they take up more room, and because most of us aren't big fans of water up the arse. So let me get straight how exactly do these bidet things work, they spray water up there and now your bottom is wet, how do you get it dry? I like TP, because itseasy, quick, takes up very little room, cleans up nicely, and isn't wet.
Mithrandir
I must have my toilet paper. It maybe only becuase that's what I was riased on but it just seems so much more clean to me. Of course the clean part only works if you follow up with a good hand washing!
fribee
Its amazing, how many people still use this worthless utensil!

No, its not only worthless, but even dangerous for health.
It seems to me also, that is it only used in northern/colder areas.

Since I moved to equatorial degrees, I never used it again, since 4 years now. Even when I come back to Europe, I still use the water bottle.

One of the very appreciated inventions of moslems and arabics beside the circumcision.

Fribee
a.Bird
fribee wrote:
Its amazing, how many people still use this worthless utensil!

No, its not only worthless, but even dangerous for health.
It seems to me also, that is it only used in northern/colder areas.

Since I moved to equatorial degrees, I never used it again, since 4 years now. Even when I come back to Europe, I still use the water bottle.

One of the very appreciated inventions of moslems and arabics beside the circumcision.

Fribee


Hows is toilet paper worthless? How is it dangerous?! Water bottle? Please go a little further indepth with your accusations.
HoboPelican
Ok, I grew up in the US and was raised on TP. Not crazy about it , but it's what I'm used to. While in Japan, I had to try one of those high tech toliets that have heated seats, perfume, hot and cold bum jets and some other buttons I was afraid to try Very Happy

So, I am not an expert, but since no one else answered Coolclay's question, here goes. Cool, my man, this unit had a scented hot air dryer built in!
I was laughing so hard, my japanese hosts (this was in the exec area of a manufacturing firm) where laughing as well when I came out. (We had already had a talk about floor level toilets in the worker areas.

I love to travel and see all the different ways people have solved the same problems! Very Happy But I really am saddened when I see the world becoming more and more homogenized.
Leetch
HAhaha this is soo funny, you guys are talking seriously about toilet paper ahhaha.
Indyan
Water is the best solvent. Its the best for cleaning purposes.
Toilet papers aren't used over here. Most people here think its dirty to use paper for that purpose.
Leetch
haha thats really weird. Do you have little camp fires and jump around them? thats cool.
Like in Tele ads where they go on the coals and go " o yea i am blessed "
thats hot coals.
tidruG
Well, if you lived here, and you told someone that you prefer toilet paper to water, the reply you'd get is probably something like your own...
"haha that's really weird. So you take a little piece of paper and scrub it up and down your arse? How much paper do you use/waste? How do you know that tiny bits of excreta aren't still stuck on your behind?" Wink

Having used both toilet paper as well was water, I definitely do prefer water. Toilet paper makes me keep asking myself whether I've really wiped it all or is there even the remotest possibility that there still could be tiny pieces of .... stuck there.

And like someone said, water is a better solvent than paper is an absorbent. I'm guessing that's why dishes are washed with water and not scrubbed clean by huge pieces of paper Wink ... water definitely has more cleansing power.

Of course, if you're talking about what you'd feel more comfortable with, that depends on how you've been brought up.
ehecatl
I was personally raised on toilet paper, and have used nothing else... Except once when we were out of toilet paper and no one told me before I entered the bathroom, I then immediately hopped in the shower and I must say, I definitely felt more cleanly making sure everything was washed off and not just wiped... If I actually take the time to think about it, yeah, toilet paper is nasty and very uncleanly, but when you don't have anything else to use, you just do the best you can I guess... I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel with water shooting at a place I'd rather it NOT be shooting... but and alternative to toilet paper would be nice and I'd definitely feel alot more cleanly after taking a ... yeah. That's my two cents on the matter ^_^
fribee
TP is the worse thing to do, full of chemicals used as
glue to put the paper machee together going into
the most sensitive parts of skin called "mucous membrane",
poisoning the body in the long run.

But people will always laugh about things they dont know,
like the highest Fluor-concentration of the world is in the US
drinking water, and that its not only for teethsaving purposes....

But maybe they should try to lick the toilette paper some
time, to get the real taste of it on the upper "mucous membranes"?

Fribee
Leetch
Your stupid. Toilet Paper is fine. Do you have the Facts to back this up?

If you do please let me know right now.
Pyro Man
Indyan wrote:
Water is the best solvent. Its the best for cleaning purposes.
Toilet papers aren't used over here. Most people here think its dirty to use paper for that purpose.


Why not just spray Mr. Muscle up your arse? (Dont do that.. NO REALLY, dont!)
Leetch
Thats another great idea, you really have to tell somebody Razz
indeedwrestling
Ole went to the neighborhood dance
And he won the big door prize
It was a toilet brush and he took it home
And the next week one of the guys
Said, "Ole's, how's that toilet brush?
The one you got from the neighbors?"
And Ole said, "Oh, it works pretty good.
But I think I'd rather use paper."
snowboardude
toilet paper?

same as fast food. its convenient.
Jack_Hammer
Toilet paper, I believe it comes from when Romans used to wipe their arse with a sponge on a stick, then that would of slowley turned into toilet paper. Though in India it is custom to wash your arse with your hands, then wash your hands.
Leetch
o Yuck... hey Indian guy, what happens if you shit on the seat? how do you wipe it then eh?
HoboPelican
fribee wrote:
TP is the worse thing to do, ...

...the highest Fluor-concentration of the world is in the US
drinking water, and that its not only for teethsaving purposes....
...

Did you just dig too far while picking your nose or were you born a fool?

When you make outrageous statements, try backing it up with fact or even a reasonable idea. This is just tripe.
fribee
Backing up concerns about TP you just have to google it!

Examples: toxic toiletpaper, dioxin toiletpaper, toxic tissue,
unbleached toiletpaper, .......you want more? Tell me, I will give you
more exs.!

Fribee
Leetch
Ok then, now google diseases from not washing your arse?
HoboPelican
fribee wrote:
Backing up concerns about TP you just have to google it!

Examples: toxic toiletpaper, dioxin toiletpaper, toxic tissue,
unbleached toiletpaper, .......you want more? Tell me, I will give you
more exs.!


Cheez, I did and found pages of unscientific scare sites. Show me something authoratative. Show me something from government, university, medical or reputable site.

You made the claim, you back it up.
MWANGI
Personally I canot live without TP.I can't imagine handwashing that thing or even touching it.Yuck.
I think that is very unhygenic.Seriously and disgusting.Sorry!
Leetch
MWANGI wrote:
Personally I canot live without TP.I can't imagine handwashing that thing or even touching it.Yuck.
I think that is very unhygenic.Seriously and disgusting.Sorry!

That is exactely right, and where you live PLANET EARTH.
Hogwarts
MWANGI wrote:
Personally I canot live without TP.I can't imagine handwashing that thing or even touching it.Yuck.
I think that is very unhygenic.Seriously and disgusting.Sorry!


They invented steam cleaners for a reason.... Laughing .

Just use old newspaper... Reading material, handy "cleanser' and saves the environment through recycling. Although I prefer to stick to toilet paper.
Jaime
Toilet paper is necesary and All need it... or not?
AftershockVibe
You have to wonder what is used in public toilets, if not toilet paper? The idea of a communal bidet is not a nice one.
Leetch
Thats an excellent point.. I don't think they would have public toilets in countries in india exept for the popular and big, that would have tp in it.
mikakiev
Newspaper is very good,first people read it sitting on the toilet and then they can use it to wipe their butts.
friuser
I can only assume toilet paper is popular because it has the ability to soap up water cause your poo isn't exactly dry and a better chance of removing most visible trace of feces except for perhaps a forensic team swiping your ass with cotton swabs. It leaves a convenient and flushable material.

However I do agree toilet paper is not good for the environment. I always hate environmentalist that says use reusable bag instead of paper/plastic but you won't see them going anywhere near using your hand or resusable diapers. :twisted: What a bunch of fascists.
shindig
Leetch wrote:
MWANGI wrote:
Personally I canot live without TP.I can't imagine handwashing that thing or even touching it.Yuck.
I think that is very unhygenic.Seriously and disgusting.Sorry!

That is exactely right, and where you live PLANET EARTH.


Using TP is effectively a form of handwashing. Using a bidet doesn't require any contact with your arse.

I personally prefer TP as I've grown up with it, however having tried bidets on french exchange they did leave me feeling a lot cleaner. You don't have to let your hand get close to anything.

As far as I can tell the people on here debunking bidets have never tried one, and just don't know any better.
pashmina
very unusual topic, but enjoyed going through all of your post..
And I didn't know Japan had hi tech toilet paper Razz haha

Anyway I have been using the same toilet paper brand for about 5 years.
shindig
pashmina wrote:
very unusual topic, but enjoyed going through all of your post..
And I didn't know Japan had hi tech toilet paper Razz haha

Anyway I have been using the same toilet paper brand for about 5 years.


Japan doesn't have hi-tech toilet paper (well it wouldn't surprise me if they do, but that's not what we were talking about). They have high-tech bidet-style toilets.

You know, you go to the toilet, and then there are automatic jets of water/etc to clean you, and then automatic jets of warm air to dry you... and you never even have to get up!
4markie
I'm glad toliet paper exists
spring567
It was a joke.
spring567
That's is a good idea.
jsarnold
My only contribution to this discussion is to note that both scatology and eschatology are concerned with ends.
speeDemon
haha!!

finally a great topic to talk about!!

Well, use your hand, is what God said, use a leaf is what human said....
Most humans from primitive times used their hand, and later, their hand with water, but the other ones, who use leaves, as seeing using hands being "dirty"... finally found new stuff to wipe with.. the more soft it got, the better it was for them....

After quite a while, when some generations passed by, well, the ones using their hands continues to do so, and the ones who didnt where much much more against and disgusted by using a hand in place of a cloth or whatever.. .

Seeing this, a softer and even more softer "thing" was found... which was cheap, and soft... this was first invented then manufactured and then liked by all!!

Some of the ones using their hands were eager to use the "thing", so they got diverted to that path too... and soon the "high class" was known to use the "thing"... like it became a symbol for the more high class people... and as we all know, the middle class followed...

And now... today.. the "thing" has got a name.... the great "Toilet Paper" which is sold at a cheap rate and flushes down many drains!!

well, thats my theory!!
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