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Su 37 vs F 22!






Which would win?
Su 37
33%
 33%  [ 3 ]
F 22
66%
 66%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 9

adiutrix
The ultimate airforce discussion! (not for people who know nothing about airforce, but your opinion is welcome)

Which jet would win in air to air combat?

Please post while backing up your claims Smile

These two planes are the best in each country (Russia and the US).

I say the Su 37 for its manuverability and range.
alkady
I'm actually suprised of your opinion. A lot of people who easily say the F-22 because its American and because of an old stereotype that American Tech is the best out there.

The Su-37 has better range, While the Raptor has better speed and goes at a higher altitude level which is critical in Stealth Missions. The 37 is also lighter and smaller. While the 22 has stealth Capabilities and is extremely expensive at $338 Million a unit.

But judging by the fact that the Su-37 is not in service so far in my knowlegde, I guess I can't really say.
S3nd K3ys
alkady wrote:
I'm actually suprised of your opinion. A lot of people who easily say the F-22 because its American and because of an old stereotype that American Tech is the best out there.

The Su-37 has better range, While the Raptor has better speed and goes at a higher altitude level which is critical in Stealth Missions. The 37 is also lighter and smaller. While the 22 has stealth Capabilities and is extremely expensive at $338 Million a unit.

But judging by the fact that the Su-37 is not in service so far in my knowlegde, I guess I can't really say.


I've made parts for both the FA-22 Raptor (Lockheed Martin) and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (Northrup Grummand) (I have F-35 Parts on two machines right now). The JSF is, by far, the most deadly thing in the air for the next two or three decades.

While the Thrust Vectoring of the Su-37 makes it very agile, that agility will be useless when it doesn't even know it's been targeted. Wink In today's airial combat, the ability to target and destroy a target before said target can see you is the name of the game.

The F-22 also has Thrust Vectoring, as well as sustained high speed, advanced sensors, stealth features, advanced avionics, and ability to exchange data with other U.S. systems.

To be fair, the Su-37 is much more comparable to the F-15. The F-15, however, is no match for the F-22 OR the F-35. Cool
adiutrix
Ah yes, the consensus I found most common amongst NON professionals, since you have dealt with this aircraft, how would you comment on its stealth capabilities and the Russian radar stations?

Suppose the raptor did not have these stealth capabilities, I think the Su 37 or Su 35 (since 37 is not even under development any more, replaced by an upgraded Su 35 that performs equally as well).

And from what I know, the F 35 is not a very high ranked aircraft. Might as well buy 3 or more F 15's as they are a very good all round machine for the price of 1 F35 or Raptor.

However, I can assure you that the F 15 will get dominated by a 37/ 35

Razz unless the F15 can get behind it somehow and make VERY clever use of the AAMRAM missile system.
S3nd K3ys
adiutrix wrote:
Ah yes, the consensus I found most common amongst NON professionals, since you have dealt with this aircraft, how would you comment on its stealth capabilities and the Russian radar stations?

Suppose the raptor did not have these stealth capabilities, I think the Su 37 or Su 35 (since 37 is not even under development any more, replaced by an upgraded Su 35 that performs equally as well).


I think if stealth had not been involved, the development into other areas would far out-perform that of the Su's on their best days. A big problem with stealth is that it is not conducive to manuverability. Considering this, it is pretty clear by the manuverability of the JSF would be considerably better had it not been for the stealth components. (I would also venture to guess that the JSF, even with it's stealth components, is quite comparable to anything else ever produced, including the Su's. Wink )

Quote:

And from what I know, the F 35 is not a very high ranked aircraft. Might as well buy 3 or more F 15's as they are a very good all round machine for the price of 1 F35 or Raptor.


The JSFs advanced airframe, autonomic logistics, avionics, propulsion systems, stealth, and firepower say otherwise.

Furthermore, without getting into detailed, classified information, the F-22 Raptor's unique combination of stealth, speed, precision, agility, situational awareness, air-to-ground and air-to-air combat capabilities make it unlike any other military aircraft in the world.

It is faster to the fight, two times more reliable, and three-plus times more effective than the F-15 it replaces. The Raptor also requires 1/3 less airlift to deploy.

Also, the international partnership in the SDD phase of the project includes the United States, United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Australia and will make for a very cost effective (by comparison) project.

If you want more info, check out jsf.mil. They're pretty liberal with their info on the jsf project. There's plenty of fact sheets there too.
Donutey
is the Su 37 being exported by Russia? If it's not I can't really think of a situation where they would ever meet...
speedlikecy
have picture to see???

two i think also very good...
horseatingweeds
S3nd K3ys wrote:


It is faster to the fight, two times more reliable, and three-plus times more effective than the F-15 it replaces. The Raptor also requires 1/3 less airlift to deploy.



This makes me feel confident in the F-22. History has shown that combat effectiveness has mush more to do with situation awareness, reliability and implementation time that the actual combat capabilities.

Also, from what I have heard about the training and testing done so fare it is generations ahead, much due to its integrated systems.
S3nd K3ys
speedlikecy wrote:
have picture to see???

two i think also very good...


adiutrix
Bah, no fair, here is a link to a 37:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/sukhoi/su-37/su-37_0001.jpg

I don't know, I still love the Su 37 for its looks over Raptor anyday Razz
S3nd K3ys
adiutrix wrote:
Bah, no fair, here is a link to a 37:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/sukhoi/su-37/su-37_0001.jpg

I don't know, I still love the Su 37 for its looks over Raptor anyday Razz


But how many kills can they get with 'looks' ?? Wink
adiutrix
Haha, stun the Raptor pilot with beauty. While hes in love with the plane, the Su 37 can quickly sneak behind it and shoot him! Russian technology is simple but effective! haha

I don't know. I have read many encyclopedias and the Su 37 seems to be slightly dominant in fields like range, manuverability and speed. I may ofcoarse be mistaken. I am no engineer nor pilot but I love aircraft and most certainly like designing them in that boring math class Razz
Donutey
with such a huge nose on that su 37 it's got to have some sort of advanced radar system.
ocalhoun
Like stated before, the key would really be stealth. You can't shoot what you can't see. (Nor can you effectively hide from it). Areal combat is going to become the same as submarine combat (and many types of ground combat for that matter): the steathiest and the best at detecting others will have the advantage, and all other considerations will be secondary. It'll be interesting to see if stealth technology will progress to the point of, when both sides have it, resorting to visual identification and targeting.
adiutrix
One probelm. Stealth MAY exist although I really doubt it actually works against the latest Russian and US radar. For one, you can't make technology and not being able to counter it... What if it gets in the wrong hands? Since both countries have stealth, I am sure they can both counter it (using small frequency radar etc.). Then if stealth DOES work, it's only a matter of time until radar technology catches up. Ones it does, the airplanes would have to be literally invisible to the eye and thats impossible. So the future of aerial combat will be the conventional one, just much more advanced detection systems.
S3nd K3ys
adiutrix wrote:
One probelm. Stealth MAY exist although I really doubt it actually works against the latest Russian and US radar. For one, you can't make technology and not being able to counter it... What if it gets in the wrong hands? Since both countries have stealth, I am sure they can both counter it (using small frequency radar etc.). Then if stealth DOES work, it's only a matter of time until radar technology catches up. Ones it does, the airplanes would have to be literally invisible to the eye and thats impossible. So the future of aerial combat will be the conventional one, just much more advanced detection systems.


It's not just Stealth Technology. It's The combination of Stealth, Performance and Combat/Defense Systems which make the SJF and Raptor such deadly weapons. Any of them by themselves is nice. But put them all in one nice neat little package and you're in for a run no matter what you fly. Wink
Vashni
I have no idea. I guess we'd have to put them to the test, lol. If i had to pick one, i'd say the F22, but then thats cuz its american
adiutrix
Su 37 has greater performance, equal defense systems but no stealth ALTHOUGH there are rumours it has some. In any case, I am not a big fan of stealth and it is claimed the Raptor will dominate for 20 years. I REALLY doubt that as it already has rivals such as Su 35, Mig 1.44 (under development) and even the Su 47.
S3nd K3ys
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20060807.aspx wrote:
F-22 Struts Its Stuff
August 7, 2006: In recent exercises over Alaska, the F-22 has been put to the test. The results have been staggering. F-22s notched an impressive 108 to 0 "kill ratio" often when outnumbered by as much as 8 to 1 by simulated Su-27/30 aircraft. In a very real sense, this is a preview of what is to come for forces facing the F-22. The F-15 and F-18 scored a 2:1 kill ratio against the simulated Flankers. This is not the only time that F-22s have shown their capabilities. Eight F-22s faced off against 33 F-15Cs earlier this year, and "shot down" all of the F-15Cs with no loss to itself.

...While the U.S. Air Force may be engaging in some puffery when it comes to describing the F-22, the track record of new American combat aircraft over the last few decades, indicates that the F-22 is, indeed, an impressive combat aircraft. But, as with any warplane, it won't be until the aircraft actually experiences combat, that it's reputation can be established as more than just potential. Harold C. Hutchison



I don't think the F22 will have much to worry about for quite some time. The US is years ahead of other countries when it comes to weapon's systems both offensively & defensively. Will be interesting to see how quickly these jets take out Iran. (oh, did I say that out loud?)

Wink
mag30
The ability for the F-22 to remain 'invisible' to radar lends an advantage going INTO a fight, but once the fight is ON, that advantage quickly fades. Modern ECM equipment, which BOTH the US and Russia deploy in their respective aircraft make long range air to air missile launches easily detectible, and very much ineffective. (unless, of course, you're talking about overwhelming number superiority one way or the other) Missiles are NOT stealthy, and must either be guided by internal or external radar sources which can be foiled by ECM. So, THEN what does it come down to in a vs. combat situation? That's right! Close range infrared missile deployment and gun to gun dogfighting. And it's pretty easy to see which platform has the advantage THERE. So, in the final analysis, if the F-22 team can overwhelm it's Sukhoi counterpart with long range missiles, advantage Raptor, but heaven help them if that's not the case.
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