When you're reincarnated, all memories of your previous life are lost, you have new genetic personality traits and new experiences, genetic personality traits and experiences are what shape our personality's. thus every thing you are, have been and could be dies when your reincarnated. The person you were no longer exists. So how is reincarnation any different than just dieing?
A question for those who believe in reincarnation
I don't know what you mean by "just dying".
What happens after you "just die"?
Do you get a chance to come back to earth at all?
No?
Then, there's the difference between the two... if you just die, you're not coming back to earth at all, whether in body or mind or soul or whatever.
But in the case of re-incarnation, your soul is coming back to earth in a new body.
What happens after you "just die"?
Do you get a chance to come back to earth at all?
No?
Then, there's the difference between the two... if you just die, you're not coming back to earth at all, whether in body or mind or soul or whatever.
But in the case of re-incarnation, your soul is coming back to earth in a new body.
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| I don't know what you mean by "just dying". |
Yes yop do.
| Quote: |
| if you just die, you're not coming back to earth at all, whether in body or mind or soul or whatever. |
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| But in the case of re-incarnation, your soul is coming back to earth in a new body. |
Your reincarnation may have the same soul but its not you. Your gone. thats a completely different person. You, who you are, what made you you is gone.
OK, this is how I see it all..
If we have a soul (Not proved, but i belive so..) That soul would be your personality, your person, your identety, YOU!!
Your soul chooses were to live a lifetime, for example, earth.. Then you live your life as you want and dies when you have finished. Then your soul has learned a lot new and expieriencing...
Thats how I belive reincarnation is. Your soul lives lifes on earth to learn and develop it self.
When you get born again, your memory isn't gone, you lose it as a child because of the many new things that happens around you. And a grown up it's hard to re-remember the last lifes. But it's possable!!
PM me if you're interested in more info in my special belives
If we have a soul (Not proved, but i belive so..) That soul would be your personality, your person, your identety, YOU!!
Your soul chooses were to live a lifetime, for example, earth.. Then you live your life as you want and dies when you have finished. Then your soul has learned a lot new and expieriencing...
Thats how I belive reincarnation is. Your soul lives lifes on earth to learn and develop it self.
When you get born again, your memory isn't gone, you lose it as a child because of the many new things that happens around you. And a grown up it's hard to re-remember the last lifes. But it's possable!!
PM me if you're interested in more info in my special belives
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Your reincarnation may have the same soul but its not you. Your gone. thats a completely different person. You, who you are, what made you you is gone. |
OK.
That's still different from just dying.
Whether you're coming back to earth with or without memories, or whether you're starting a new life without any experiences or without a clue as to who you are, the point is that you're coming back. Just dying, as we have defined it, means that you're not coming back at all.
Also, re-incarnation is generally hand-in-hand with karma and the attainment of Nirvana or Moksha. My personal belief is that the karma energy adds to your soul. So, when you come back in a new life with the same soul, your soul may gain or lose karma and get closer to or further away from Nirvana/Moksha.
If you're dying without being re-incarnated, the whole system of karma, etc. is pointless.
Also note that the soul is what really defines you.
Fortunately or unfortunately, when we are born, we forget our true selves and get brainwashed by society, parents, advertisements, and start working more towards being accepted as a successful member of the society rather than trying to pursue and do the things that we truly want to or truly believe in. We're moulded and brainwashed from a very young age... and by our parents more than anyone else. Later, peer pressure from friends... and later, indirect pressure from the society.
Possibly, this is why "soul-searching" and books on it are popular.
There are several incidents in which kids says about there past life and when you inviestigate further you find, that everything the kid said was true.. and yet people are not ready to belive in re-incarnation.. and don't think reincarnations is very instant after you die.. some times your soul have to wait years and years to born again.. if you ask why.. well.. no answer.. it just happens.. the reasons only known by the supreme soul.. we don't know if the soul have a part in the decision making of where/when to born again.. but I like to belive YES..
In Sreemad Bhagwath Geeta Lord says "The soul is not destroyable, but human body is.. and yet if you think you killed somebody you are fools because you only destroyed the body, you cannot destroy the soul, when the body become lifeless the soul take a new body for it.. like we change clothes.." (this is not the exact translation .. please expect mistakes.. and people who know correct it yourself).
In Sreemad Bhagwath Geeta Lord says "The soul is not destroyable, but human body is.. and yet if you think you killed somebody you are fools because you only destroyed the body, you cannot destroy the soul, when the body become lifeless the soul take a new body for it.. like we change clothes.." (this is not the exact translation .. please expect mistakes.. and people who know correct it yourself).
Your missing my point.
What makes you, you? Is it your soul, is it your body? No. Its you genetic personality traits and past experiences that make you who you are. It you erase some one memory's and replace them with new memory's of a life completely different from his life, You get a completely different person, the person that was there no longer exists, he is in effect, dead.
When your reincarnated, you memory's of your previous life are erased or blocked. The person you were no longer exists. So in effect, the person you were, is dead.
What makes you, you? Is it your soul, is it your body? No. Its you genetic personality traits and past experiences that make you who you are. It you erase some one memory's and replace them with new memory's of a life completely different from his life, You get a completely different person, the person that was there no longer exists, he is in effect, dead.
When your reincarnated, you memory's of your previous life are erased or blocked. The person you were no longer exists. So in effect, the person you were, is dead.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Your missing my point.
What makes you, you? Is it your soul, is it your body? No. Its you genetic personality traits and past experiences that make you who you are. It you erase some one memory's and replace them with new memory's of a life completely different from his life, You get a completely different person, the person that was there no longer exists, he is in effect, dead. When your reincarnated, you memory's of your previous life are erased or blocked. The person you were no longer exists. So in effect, the person you were, is dead. |
Erm... that's what I attempted to answer in my previous post.
What defines "you" is a mixture of the person you are by soul, and the person you become by your experiences.
When you die, and lose all your experiences and your memories, what's left of the person you are is the real you... as in the "you" as defined by the soul.
So, when you die and are reborn without any memories or experiencies, you could say that the part of you that was defined by your genetic traits, your experiences, etc. is gone, but the part of you defined by your soul is still alive.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| So how is reincarnation any different than just dieing? |
tidruG: I see what your saying. I guess it just comes down to your opinion of what makes you, you.
Marston: Just death, no reincarnation, no afterlife, nothing, oblivion.
Marston: Just death, no reincarnation, no afterlife, nothing, oblivion.
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| Marston: Just death, no reincarnation, no afterlife, nothing, oblivion. |
By just death I mean non existence where reincarnation implies that a at lest a peace of you live on in some one else. If you just die, than nothing of you remains, your "soul" dose not go to an afterlife, your "soul" is not reborn into some one else. You just die and that the end of you.
I was allways under the assumption(probably by word of mouth) that according to reincarnation you lived different lives untill you become enlightened , then you pass from the earthly life to your spiritual life , so at no point untill then are you actually YOU , You live(maybe several lives) to become you...... Now I cant remember everything I have seen and done in this life nevermind the (if any ) last life so I'm not surprised I dont personally remember any previous lives.
It depends on the religion. In Hinduism the amount of good karma you gain determines the time you spend with God before you fall back to earth and are reincarnated. the cycle is endless.
Read this to learn more.
Read this to learn more.
@The Conspirator, yes I do believe most of it depends on our definitions of our personalities.
I'm looking at it now through your definition, and I don't think it makes much sense to think that when we are re-incarnated, we'd have the same personality traits as our previous life. Otherwise, this life would simply be a continuation of the previous which seems a little unfair(?), as it doesn't give you a chance to begin life afresh.
MY personal belief has always been in the reincarnation of the soul, and not of the person.
I'm looking at it now through your definition, and I don't think it makes much sense to think that when we are re-incarnated, we'd have the same personality traits as our previous life. Otherwise, this life would simply be a continuation of the previous which seems a little unfair(?), as it doesn't give you a chance to begin life afresh.
MY personal belief has always been in the reincarnation of the soul, and not of the person.
| conspirator wrote: |
| What makes you, you? Is it your soul, is it your body? No. Its you genetic......... ... .. |
Yes it is correct.. but even if the person dies.. the soul doesn't but as tiduguru said, we do not have the same personality in the next life.. we have a chance for fresh start for our personality.. I think it is to improve our personality than we had in our past life..
| The Conspirator wrote: |
| When you're reincarnated, all memories of your previous life are lost, you have new genetic personality traits and new experiences, genetic personality traits and experiences are what shape our personality's. thus every thing you are, have been and could be dies when your reincarnated. The person you were no longer exists. So how is reincarnation any different than just dieing? |
According to the BhagvadGita, there are two types of material bodies. One is the gross physical body made up of five material elements. (earth, air, water, fire and ether). And there is the subtle body made up of mind, intelligence and the false ego. The subtle body is also material in nature but different from the physical body. The spirit soul, i.e. yourself are different from both these bodies. It is easy to understand how you are different from your physical body but it is much more difficult to dis associate yourself from the subtle body.
So when a person dies and reincarnates, he leaves behind the gross body but carries with him the subtle body. which undergoes great change during this transformation and the pain of death and consequent birth is responsible for the loss of memory. But since spirit soul is different from both these bodies, there is no change in the spirit soul itself. To disassociate onself from identifying yourself with this bodily conception of life and knowing your true constitutional nature is called the 'Mukti' or liberation.
I find it hard to express my opinions in this issue. I find myself struggling between two minds, in one hand i have my logical/scientific opinion where, something such as souls, and afterlife and even reincarnation are simply not possible.
In the other hand i have my creative side that tries to take what grim hope we have in this world and makes you believe there is something much more. Is it a sub-consious emotion that triggers to make us feel comforted, to repel the fear of death?
In all honesty i just don't know, and regardless of anyones testimones, deep down inside, no-one really knows for sure.
I will however share with you what i feel is the best way to describe my stand point on the issue.
For this stand point, we will assume that every living organism has a soul. We will also assume that every soul is reborn into a new physical form upon death.
Having said that, i feel that each "life" as it were, is how your soul grows, how it learns.
I use this "training" to describe the different characteristics of each individual. For example, i do not feel anyone is born evil, or born good, however, what actions they take could indicate how "old" their soul is.
The wise are the oldest, going backwards down to those that make poor choices in their life. Each new life is a chance to learn (sub-conciously of course) from your mistakes.
I dunno, its hard to explain exactly how i feel about it, and i best not continue as its starting to get deep. haha cheers.
Have a nice day.
In the other hand i have my creative side that tries to take what grim hope we have in this world and makes you believe there is something much more. Is it a sub-consious emotion that triggers to make us feel comforted, to repel the fear of death?
In all honesty i just don't know, and regardless of anyones testimones, deep down inside, no-one really knows for sure.
I will however share with you what i feel is the best way to describe my stand point on the issue.
For this stand point, we will assume that every living organism has a soul. We will also assume that every soul is reborn into a new physical form upon death.
Having said that, i feel that each "life" as it were, is how your soul grows, how it learns.
I use this "training" to describe the different characteristics of each individual. For example, i do not feel anyone is born evil, or born good, however, what actions they take could indicate how "old" their soul is.
The wise are the oldest, going backwards down to those that make poor choices in their life. Each new life is a chance to learn (sub-conciously of course) from your mistakes.
I dunno, its hard to explain exactly how i feel about it, and i best not continue as its starting to get deep. haha cheers.
Have a nice day.
| Arcannus wrote: |
| I find it hard to express my opinions in this issue. I find myself struggling between two minds, in one hand i have my logical/scientific opinion where, something such as souls, and afterlife and even reincarnation are simply not possible.... ... . |
Did you really read the topic... ok .. if you didn't I will write it once more here... "A question for those who believe in reincarnation"... as you see the question is only for those who belive in it..
There was no need to be rude. In rebutal, did you actually read my post? Yes i said i was in two minds whether i believe it totally or not, therefore, i simply have doubts.
I then went on to explain what i believe re-incarnation to be. So take your own advice and READ it.
I then went on to explain what i believe re-incarnation to be. So take your own advice and READ it.
Arcanus, you post some very interesting points.
But somehow, I can't help but ask you...
If each successive life helps our soul to get better by learning the answers to the questions of life, etc., then eventually, there would come a stage in the (perhaps very far) future of earth at which time all the souls on earth are "old" and therefore would create a better world... eventually, all sould would be "old" enough to convert earth into a sort of heaven with their knowledge and their experience of right and wrong and how right is generally more beneficial than wrong?
But somehow, I can't help but ask you...
If each successive life helps our soul to get better by learning the answers to the questions of life, etc., then eventually, there would come a stage in the (perhaps very far) future of earth at which time all the souls on earth are "old" and therefore would create a better world... eventually, all sould would be "old" enough to convert earth into a sort of heaven with their knowledge and their experience of right and wrong and how right is generally more beneficial than wrong?
Perhaps there comes a time when a soul is old enough or wise enough to be by gods side in heaven.
Or perhaps you could look at our soul's knowledge as a whole, and see how far the human race has come, and how far it will go.
Think of the oldest souls as Einstein, Newton ect. And notice the trend of our world today, and how fast new technologies and breakthroughs are occuring.
In short........ the intelligence of the human race is increasing.
I dunno, nice question though.
Or perhaps you could look at our soul's knowledge as a whole, and see how far the human race has come, and how far it will go.
Think of the oldest souls as Einstein, Newton ect. And notice the trend of our world today, and how fast new technologies and breakthroughs are occuring.
In short........ the intelligence of the human race is increasing.
I dunno, nice question though.
Re-incarnation is a nice thought, I wish I could believe in it, the main problem I have is there are more people on the earth than ever before, so where did they all appear from, re-incarnation would mean the population numbers can never increase as a soul has to be one of the dead, unless the life energy gets halved lol so future generations have less life in them, I do believe life is an energy and as such cannot be destroyed, only converted to another energy, so maybe it goes back into the pool of universal life energy and comes back out, err so you dont know what you'll be next,could be a maggot, or a dodo, well if you can go back in time aswell anyway.
| druidbloke wrote: |
| Re-incarnation is a nice thought, I wish I could believe in it, the main problem I have is there are more people on the earth than ever before, so where did they all appear from, re-incarnation would mean the population numbers can never increase as a soul has to be one of the dead, unless the life energy gets halved lol so future generations have less life in them, I do believe life is an energy and as such cannot be destroyed, only converted to another energy, so maybe it goes back into the pool of universal life energy and comes back out, err so you dont know what you'll be next,could be a maggot, or a dodo, well if you can go back in time aswell anyway. |
Interesting...
However, what if you were to come back as an animal? That would explain the growing population.
Animal population is dwindling, and thus human population is rising :p
Alternately, there's a theory that a soul can spend certain amount of time before coming back to Earth... what if that time duration is decreasing?
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