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Have you ever have a god's miracle in your life ?





nappa
I do many times. I tell you the story about the first miracle of god. It was about ten years ago. I woke up and prepared to go to school, then I saw a vision.

In the vision I saw an angel and a demon. The angel had some bruises on him standing on a rock. His wing was really big and spread wide. He was facing a crouching demon which seem to be defeated by him. His right arm holding a spear. His left arm pointing to the crouching demon. Then I saw a light shinging down to the angel and I hear God from my very ears. He said that "I'm the water of life, trust in my and I will give you the water".

That was vision I saw. That's why I know Jesus is the Lord. There are more things happen to me afterward. I'll talk about it later
alja
For me the very fact that I am breathing is a miracle. Life, people, nature. No good no bad, no heaven no hell. I think that the bigest miracle is to be able to learn from life and enjoy it at most.
ocalhoun
Nick Aiossa, a friend of mine went to the hospital because of a brain tumor he had several years ago. I've seen their scans of the tumor. The next Sunday after he was diagnosed the whole church prayed over him for his healing. When he went in for surgury, they did another scan to look for changes, and the tumor was completely gone. The surgury was then called off. Nick lives on the road next to mine, and keeps the before and after scan images framed on the wall.
That's one reason I have no doubt.
elincinerador
yes i did. it was when my father's sperm met my mother's ova and my life started. only divine intervention gave life to that, only divine intervention made me reason, only divine intervention made later my whole body act as a unit. every thing surrounding me is a miracle... we should appreciate everything God gave us.
The Conspirator
This thread is ridiculous, every thing stated here has real world explanations. The and the worse part is that you all assume its the Christan god that did any of this. If you assume divine origin than you must take in to account all the religions of the world. Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman are just as likely to be the source.
swapnalokam
Somebody in every relegion have some miracles to say, happened in their life.. with the help of the GOD they belive in..
The Conspirator
Exactly. So ether all theses gods exist or there real world explanations and no gods exist. Yet the people of theses religions don't think about that, they just assume that its real and only people of there religion experience "miracles".
UlrikeSE
I would imagine a god of infinate wisdom and strength wouldn't waste a second of his infinate time to puff smoke in front of my idiot face.

To this day with my limited knowledge, the great wonders and happenings in my life are of natural means. The greater of these wonders are products of my own will and stength.

When God wants to have lunch with me, my table will be free and i'll be standing with open arms. Until that day, i'm not selfish enough to hope for interaction, or intelligent enough to understand Gods means to anything.
the_mariska
The Conspirator wrote:
Exactly. So ether all theses gods exist or there real world explanations and no gods exist. Yet the people of theses religions don't think about that, they just assume that its real and only people of there religion experience "miracles".
There is a third option. There is only One God, that appears to various people around the world in different ways. Not always as Jesus or St. Somewhich, sometimes under any other name. Always, because people do have faith that they will be healed.

In the Bible it is directly said: Jesus didn't come to Earth make wonders, He came to redeem the world. However, if someone had a really strong faith, his/her faith caused that he/she became healed by Him (or His disciples).

(Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."

Acts 14:8-10
In Lystra there sat a man crippled in his feet, who was lame from birth and had never walked. He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed and called out, "Stand up on your feet!" At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.)

I guess the really strong faith is enough to have an unexplicable event happen. And those who claim that for everything there is a scientific explanation are too optimistic. We, humans, still know very little, much too little about the world around us.

PS. I know that the most of you would consider this as a crap, but there is also magic. My friend is strongly involved into that stuff so I don't need any evidence that it is real. Note that the only force that could make magic happen are demons, as God doesn't approve any practics this kind.
The Conspirator
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.
UlrikeSE
the_mariska wrote:

We, humans, still know very little, much too little about the world around us.


And yet, you speak as if you know.

This is all very amusing to me. You speak in "truths" andf "certainties of faith" but recognize your faults as a human being. Couldn't everything you say be as wrong as you think others are?
the_mariska
UlrikeSE wrote:
the_mariska wrote:

We, humans, still know very little, much too little about the world around us.


And yet, you speak as if you know.

This is all very amusing to me. You speak in "truths" andf "certainties of faith" but recognize your faults as a human being. Couldn't everything you say be as wrong as you think others are?

You must have misunderstood me. I don't think people are wrong. I don't think they all make mistakes. Sorry if it realy sounded so. And I have not used a single word 'truth' or 'certainity' in my previous post. I only wrote that I believe that our faith may cause unexplicable things happen.

And the sentence you quoted just meant that our science and knowledge is still not able to explain many phenomena happening around us. We are unable to explain exactly how the human brain works, not mentioning to prove whether there's a soul or not. I would love if we could one day explain scientifically all the wonderful healings, visions, or ghosts visits, but so far there are still to many things that we should consider as 'wonders'.

Quote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

No. I'm assuming that responsible is our strong faith in the Divine help. No matter how you call the God or what are your beliefes like, if you truly believe that something wil happen, it will.
UlrikeSE
I wasn't really quoting directly, but how you sounded to me and possible others. The word "may" clears things up for me, I don't trust people who make things certain. I believe nothing I hear, and only half of what I see.

As for scientifically explaining the miracles you mentioned, there are hundreds of reasons I could give for any of those. Dementia, local lore, misunderstanding, and simple lying could make up a majority of them. These are all before we assume it's some leap of faith or super natural cause.

I'm not a total pecimist, I do believe such things are possible. But, I also trust in my logical reasoning more then other's, and require the utmost clarity before I jump to conclusions. These "Wonders" have little or no clarity, so I can't jump anywhere. I only assume fool-hardiness in those who do so without solid foundation. I assume this is what people of blind faith do, and why I do dislike it. This isn't soley on the hands of the religious. Scientists and Buisness men who go about things without researching or looking past the surface often make fatal mistakes. Jumping blindly very rarely achieves anything, and even then, we all look before we jump with eyes closed.

I quoted that one sentence because I DID understand where you were coming from and relfected it back onto yourself. If people still err among our sciences and great knowledge, can you really seperate yourself from their numbers? Understanding you may have less intelligence, wisdom, and pure faith as others...can you validate anything you say as truth? Anymore then anyone else?
Quote:


Quote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

No. I'm assuming that responsible is our strong faith in the Divine help. No matter how you call the God or what are your beliefes like, if you truly believe that something wil happen, it will.


Prove it. I'm very interested in being God, and am willing to believe myself into one. If what you say is true, it will only be a matter of time.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

And what about mine? We prayed for it and we got it. And we didn't pray to Zues either.
UlrikeSE
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

And what about mine? We prayed for it and we got it. And we didn't pray to Zues either.


Let's forget about luck or chance for a few moments.

Have you ever responded to a stranger adressing you? Maybe, calling you by a different name, a mis-pronounced name, but still hoping to catch your sole attention?
ocalhoun
UlrikeSE wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

And what about mine? We prayed for it and we got it. And we didn't pray to Zues either.


Let's forget about luck or chance for a few moments.

Have you ever responded to a stranger adressing you? Maybe, calling you by a different name, a mis-pronounced name, but still hoping to catch your sole attention?

Okay, so some other strange god that we have denouced as fake and heritical is going to take the trouble to heal our friend thereby reinforcing our belief in who we believe to be the one true God?
Or perhaps it was some kind of 'spirit'.
And would not this theoretical third party try to make itself known to us?
The Conspirator
UlrikeSE wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
Your still assuming your god is responsible, Brahman is just as likely as your God to exist and have done it.

And what about mine? We prayed for it and we got it. And we didn't pray to Zues either.


Let's forget about luck or chance for a few moments.

Have you ever responded to a stranger adressing you? Maybe, calling you by a different name, a mis-pronounced name, but still hoping to catch your sole attention?

Your first mistake is assuming something super natural was the cause, you second was assuming some Gad was responsible, you thread was assuming your God was responsible.
I don't know the circumstances but there are several possibility's.
1. It could have been an error and it was never there to begin with.
2. It could have been an error and its still there.
3. It could have went into remission for some medical reason I don't know of.
4. It could have been mind over matter.
Getting away from reality we could add.
5. Aliens could have done it for some reason we don;t know.
6. It could have been the ghost of a person who coarse about him (like a dead relative of his) who used some ghost power to heal him.
7. It could have been some god who has plans for him or one of his descendants.

There are more possibility's but the first three are most likely.
But you never thought of those, you assumed some God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know the circumstances but there are several possibility's.
1. It could have been an error and it was never there to begin with.

a: the doctors had scheduled brain surgury; they were sure.
b: Nick was suffering terrible headaches; the reason he went to the doctor in the first place.
The Conspirator wrote:

2. It could have been an error and its still there.
a: if the doctors had any doubt about wether it was still there, they would either operate anyway or do more tests.
b: Nick's headaches went away afterwards.
The Conspirator wrote:

3. It could have went into remission for some medical reason I don't know of.
In only three days?
The Conspirator wrote:

4. It could have been mind over matter.
Getting away from reality we could add.
I believe in the power of mind over mind; I alleviate pain that way all the time, but you can't make cancer go away by thinking about it.
The Conspirator wrote:

5. Aliens could have done it for some reason we don;t know.

You got me there; the aliens did it! This whole God thing was made up by the aliens, right? If praying to God makes mysterious aliens do good things for you, then I'll just keep doing so.
The Conspirator wrote:

6. It could have been the ghost of a person who coarse about him (like a dead relative of his) who used some ghost power to heal him.

and why would a dead reletive have the power to cure concer? and if they did, why can anyone with dead loving relitives die from cancer?
The Conspirator wrote:

7. It could have been some god who has plans for him or one of his descendants.
You mean like the one true God?
a_dubDesign
ocalhoun wrote:
Okay, so some other strange god that we have denouced as fake and heritical is going to take the trouble to heal our friend thereby reinforcing our belief in who we believe to be the one true God?

maybe the strange god operates under the same I cause the sun to shine on the wicked and good alike premise

ocalhoun wrote:
And would not this theoretical third party try to make itself known to us?

maybe the healing was the third parties way of making itself known to you.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
In only three days?

Its far more likely that some God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
Beside, there are things in this universe far stranger than fiction.
Quote:
I believe in the power of mind over mind; I alleviate pain that way all the time, but you can't make cancer go away by thinking about it.

You don't believe that mind over matter can do more than get rid of pain yet you believe in an omniscient omnipotent God?
Ask your self. Which is more plosable?
Quote:
You got me there; the aliens did it! This whole God thing was made up by the aliens, right? If praying to God makes mysterious aliens do good things for you, then I'll just keep doing so.

You did read the part where I said "Getting away from reality we could add." Besides, Its more likely that God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
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and why would a dead reletive have the power to cure concer? and if they did, why can anyone with dead loving relitives die from cancer?

Perhaps theres a rule against it. remember we have left reality at this point.
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You mean like the one true God?

Your still assuming you God, for all you know it could be Zeator, god of the undead who healed him so his grand son could release him tartris.
Hay its just as likely as your God, there both made up.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
In only three days?

Its far more likely that some God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
Is that your idea of a religeion?
The Conspirator wrote:

Beside, there are things in this universe far stranger than fiction.
The one true God couldn't possibly be one of those could He?
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
I believe in the power of mind over mind; I alleviate pain that way all the time, but you can't make cancer go away by thinking about it.

You don't believe that mind over matter can do more than get rid of pain yet you believe in an omniscient omnipotent God?
Ask your self. Which is more plosable?

Okay, I asked myself. Answer: an omiscient omnipotent God. Reason 1: If I had such powers, wouldn't I know about them? Reason 2: Where did I come from? (ultimately)
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
You got me there; the aliens did it! This whole God thing was made up by the aliens, right? If praying to God makes mysterious aliens do good things for you, then I'll just keep doing so.

You did read the part where I said "Getting away from reality we could add."
Wait, I think I missed that.
The Conspirator wrote:
Besides, Its more likely that God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
Ah, and what evidence do you have to support this? It's convieneint that any request for evidence of your god defeats itself because he gives 0 evidence... Anyway, before we can figure the probability of such a thing, we need complete data which we do not have. (on a side note, how did you find out about this god that leaves 0 evidence of himself, or did you make him up?)
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
and why would a dead reletive have the power to cure concer? and if they did, why can anyone with dead loving relitives die from cancer?

Perhaps theres a rule against it. remember we have left reality at this point.
Perhaps you've left reality long ago, but I don't see much point to this discussion if reality has no bearing on it.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
You mean like the one true God?

Your still assuming you God, for all you know it could be Zeator, god of the undead who healed him so his grand son could release him tartris.
Hay its just as likely as your God, there both made up.

I'll admit there's no conclusive way to prove that it was my God, and not some other, although the fact that we prayed to my God and not some other would suggest that He did it.
Anyway, since when was this topic about which god is doing the miracles?
I figured it for trying to prove that there is some god out there.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
In only three days?

Its far more likely that some God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it.
Is that your idea of a religeion?
The Conspirator wrote:

Beside, there are things in this universe far stranger than fiction.

That "that" is a typo, its supposed to be "Its far more likely than some God who give 0 evidence of his existence and fill the universe with evidence that he had nothing to do with the universe did it."
Dam typos. Sorry
Quote:
The one true God couldn't possibly be one of those could He?

No cause we would have found evidence of it. There is none. There would be.
Quote:
I'll admit there's no conclusive way to prove that it was my God, and not some other, although the fact that we prayed to my God and not some other would suggest that He did it.

Allot of people pray to your God and he very, very really answers people praise. In fact, Muslims pray to Alla and a very, very few of those prays get answered, Hindus pay to there God and very, very few of those prays get answered, those who practise the Shinto religion pray to there gods and very, very few of theist religion out there.
So maybe, just maybe there a real world explanation for all there "miracles" and miracles only exists in the realm of fantasy, like God, alien abductions, ghosts and demons.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:

No cause we would have found evidence of it. There is none. There would be.

Evidence of it:
1: The world is here.
2: Nick was healed.
3: I could go on for a while, but you get the point.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
I'll admit there's no conclusive way to prove that it was my God, and not some other, although the fact that we prayed to my God and not some other would suggest that He did it.

Allot of people pray to your God and he very, very really answers people praise. In fact, Muslims pray to Alla and a very, very few of those prays get answered, Hindus pay to there God and very, very few of those prays get answered, those who practise the Shinto religion pray to there gods and very, very few of theist religion out there.
So maybe, just maybe there a real world explanation for all there "miracles" and miracles only exists in the realm of fantasy, like God, alien abductions, ghosts and demons.

I'll admit, few prayers are answered as well and quickly as this one, but that is partialy because of hypocricy and partialy because God cannot be manipulated easily. As for the amount of prayers from other religeions that get answers, I have no information on that subject, so I cannot reconcile myself to refuting that.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
Evidence of it:
1: The world is here.
2: Nick was healed.
3: I could go on for a while, but you get the point.

1. Has a scientific explanation that is far more plausible than some God doing it.
2. All things have real world explanations whether we know what they are or not.
3.You could go on but I would debunk all your so called "evidence".
carolinehjkim
I don't want to argue with conspirator. I'm just gonna state my opinion.
I belive in God and I know he is here. I think I'm blessed to know about God and I can feel that he loves me. I pray and he listens to me and he understands me.
livilou
I won't argue about it either. I've seen people healed that didn't believe the same as I do, but I do believe that the same God did the healing. If you're sick or just want prayer, I'll be glad to pray for you. If you get your healing, you thank whatever force you feel did it. I'll give thanks to my God that I feel healed you.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Evidence of it:
1: The world is here.
2: Nick was healed.
3: I could go on for a while, but you get the point.

1. Has a scientific explanation that is far more plausible than some God doing it.
2. All things have real world explanations whether we know what they are or not.
3.You could go on but I would debunk all your so called "evidence".

1. Plausable? Try horrendously improbable. Anyway, assuming the big bang theory, where did the original mass and energy come from?
2. (Says who?) Why is it impossible that God is part of your 'real world'?
3. I'm sure you'd at least try...
carolinehjkim wrote:
I don't want to argue with conspirator.

livilou wrote:
I won't argue about it either.

Cowards!
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
1. Plausable? Try horrendously improbable. Anyway, assuming the big bang theory, where did the original mass and energy come from?
2. (Says who?) Why is it impossible that God is part of your 'real world'?
3. I'm sure you'd at least try...

1. The big bang than what was geneses says.
I don't know but nether do I know what happened to Amelia Erhart ether but I don't assume God took her and I I'm not going to assume God made the universe ether.
2. Cause here is no evidence of any god from any religion. And all things that had once been considered controlled by God of gods has been proven to come from real world, non supernatural, non divine sources. Storms, lightening, earthquakes, tsunamis, Plagues and even conception was all considered the domain of God or the gods. They were controlled by the gods. We now know that God has nothing to do with these, earthquakes don't happen cause Poseidon wonts one to, storms don't happen cause Zeus made it and sent it your way. Zeus and Thore do not throw lightening bolts at the earth. Plague are not a punishment from God. All these things have real world explanations that we now know. Its not that people back then were stupid, they had no way of knowing these things and those who guessed right had no way of proving it. I've learned from the mistakes of the past, I don't assume divine force when I don't have an answer.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:

I don't know but nether do I know what happened to Amelia Erhart ether but I don't assume God took her

News flash: Her plane malfunctioned and it crashed into the ocean.
The Conspirator wrote:

2. Cause here is no evidence of any god from any religion. And all things that had once been considered controlled by God of gods has been proven to come from real world, non supernatural, non divine sources. Storms, lightening, earthquakes, tsunamis, Plagues and even conception was all considered the domain of God or the gods. They were controlled by the gods. We now know that God has nothing to do with these, earthquakes don't happen cause Poseidon wonts one to, storms don't happen cause Zeus made it and sent it your way. Zeus and Thore do not throw lightening bolts at the earth. Plague are not a punishment from God. All these things have real world explanations that we now know. Its not that people back then were stupid, they had no way of knowing these things and those who guessed right had no way of proving it. I've learned from the mistakes of the past, I don't assume divine force when I don't have an answer.

Ah, but what if divine force is the answer? That, combined with your total inability to consider that God might be real and the ramifications thereof, would explain your lack of knowlege professed earlier:
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know

The Conspirator wrote:
I'm not going to assume God made the universe ether.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:

I don't know but nether do I know what happened to Amelia Erhart ether but I don't assume God took her

News flash: Her plane malfunctioned and it crashed into the ocean.

Its is amazing how theists can miss a blunt and obvious point.
I don't know allot of things but I don't assume divine or supernatural forces are behind or involved in any of them.

Quote:
Ah, but what if divine force is the answer?

That God has covered his tracks really well cause he left no evidence behind and planted allot of evidence that he had nothing to do with it.
Quote:
That, combined with your total inability to consider that God might be real and the ramifications thereof, would explain your lack of knowlege professed earlier:
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know

The Conspirator wrote:
I'm not going to assume God made the universe ether.

The intelligent man admits what he dose not know and doesn't make assumptions based on nothing but what some book says.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
he left no evidence behind and planted allot of evidence that he had nothing to do with it.

Do you not see the paradox in this?
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know allot of things but I don't assume divine or supernatural forces are behind or involved in any of them.
Neither do I, but that's the best explanation I know of.
The Conspirator wrote:

The intelligent man admits what he dose not know and doesn't make assumptions based on nothing but what some book says.

I do know, and from a book is where I first learned it. How do I know the book is true? I speak with God.

How about I throw another example at you, to keep on the topic of this thread;
Once, my family was in a time of some major financial problems, and my dad prayed for God to help him with this; he told nobody else because he was embarrased about it. After that, envelopes full of cash started appearing pinned under the windheild wiper of his truck. This happened four times, and there was no evidence as to who put the envelopes there.

You can see where I find a pattern here:
1:Pray to God.
2:Miracle.
Given that, I don't really doubt that God was behind such miracles.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
he left no evidence behind and planted allot of evidence that he had nothing to do with it.

Do you not see the paradox in this?

And you miss my point again. There is no evidence that any divine force in involved in the universe and allot of evidence that its not.

Quote:
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know allot of things but I don't assume divine or supernatural forces are behind or involved in any of them.
Neither do I, but that's the best explanation I know of.
The Conspirator wrote:

The intelligent man admits what he dose not know and doesn't make assumptions based on nothing but what some book says.

I do know, and from a book is where I first learned it.

The Da Vinci Code clames to represent a truth but you don't believe that. Just cause a book is said to state a truth doesn't mean it dose, you must look at the evidence behind it if, any exists (as with the bible and the Da Vinci Code).
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How do I know the book is true? I speak with God.

I suggest you speak to a psychiatrist about that.

Quote:
How about I throw another example at you, to keep on the topic of this thread;
Once, my family was in a time of some major financial problems, and my dad prayed for God to help him with this; he told nobody else because he was embarrased about it. After that, envelopes full of cash started appearing pinned under the windheild wiper of his truck. This happened four times, and there was no evidence as to who put the envelopes there.

You can see where I find a pattern here:
1:Pray to God.
2:Miracle.

What about all the Muslims who pray to Alla and get a miracles, all the Hindus who pray and get miracles, all the pegons?
Is it that God doesn't discriminate? Given that the Christan god send people to suffer forever in hell if they don't believe in and worship him, thats unlikely. Maybe its some other super natural, mystical or divine force? or maybe, just maybe, if you live in the real world some one helped you family by giving money.
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Given that, I don't really doubt that God was behind such miracles.

Thats the problem, those who don;t have doubt end up as crusaders, suicide bombers and murders. Nothing, nothing good come win you don't have doubt. Only pain ans suffering.
Question everything. Only then can you find the grater truths in life.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
he left no evidence behind and planted allot of evidence that he had nothing to do with it.

Do you not see the paradox in this?

And you miss my point again. There is no evidence that any divine force in involved in the universe and allot of evidence that its not.
You couldn't give us some of that evidence could you?
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
The Conspirator wrote:
I don't know allot of things but I don't assume divine or supernatural forces are behind or involved in any of them.
Neither do I, but that's the best explanation I know of.
The Conspirator wrote:

The intelligent man admits what he dose not know and doesn't make assumptions based on nothing but what some book says.

I do know, and from a book is where I first learned it.

The Da Vinci Code clames to represent a truth but you don't believe that.
How'd you know I don't believe that!?
The Conspirator wrote:
Just cause a book is said to state a truth doesn't mean it dose, you must look at the evidence behind it if, any exists (as with the bible and the Da Vinci Code).
As I have, see the next line;
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
How do I know the book is true? I speak with God.

I suggest you speak to a psychiatrist about that.
Why should I see I psychiatrist about that? Is it because you deny the possibility that one can commune with God out of hand?
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
How about I throw another example at you, to keep on the topic of this thread;
Once, my family was in a time of some major financial problems, and my dad prayed for God to help him with this; he told nobody else because he was embarrased about it. After that, envelopes full of cash started appearing pinned under the windheild wiper of his truck. This happened four times, and there was no evidence as to who put the envelopes there.

You can see where I find a pattern here:
1:Pray to God.
2:Miracle.

What about all the Muslims who pray to Alla and get a miracles, all the Hindus who pray and get miracles, all the pegons?
Is it that God doesn't discriminate? Given that the Christan god send people to suffer forever in hell if they don't believe in and worship him, thats unlikely. Maybe its some other super natural, mystical or divine force? or maybe, just maybe, if you live in the real world some one helped you family by giving money.
Of course that's what happened, but why did they give us the money? God put it in their hearts to do so.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Given that, I don't really doubt that God was behind such miracles.

Thats the problem, those who don;t have doubt end up as crusaders, suicide bombers and murders. Nothing, nothing good come win you don't have doubt. Only pain ans suffering.
Odd, I don't think of myself as a crusader or suicide bomber or murderer... Would this qualify as flaming? You are referring to people who don't doubt the wrong things (including the crusaders, as I don't hold with catholicisim)
The Conspirator wrote:

Question everything. Only then can you find the grater truths in life.
Only then can you doubt and mistrust the greater truths in life. What 'greater truths' have you found by doubting everything? Besides the previous one.


As an aside, I apologise for the both of us for hijacking this thread.
The Conspirator
Quote:
You couldn't give us some of that evidence could you?

Images of galaxy's billions of light years away (and cause the light travels as a set speed, billions of years in the past), the doppler effect which combined with the images of galaxy billions of light years away prove that the universe is expanding and has been since the beginning, images of distant galaxy's in the proses of forming, images of distant starts and soler systems forming all taken by powerful telescopes.
Which proves that God didn't make the earth, gravity did.
Fossilised skeletons of ancient creatures no linger exist, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature that is similar to the previous one I mentioned but with distinct defences and dated to have existed after the first, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature like the second but with some similarity's to a moder creature and dated to after the second, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature similar to the last except much more like a modern creature and dated to have existed after the last, the moder creature, you and me.
Proving we and every other creture on earth evolved with out the help of God.
Quote:
How'd you know I don't believe that!?

Judging by what you have said and statistics you are most likely Christan. And mostly the book is complete crap.
Quote:
Why should I see I psychiatrist about that? Is it because you deny the possibility that one can commune with God out of hand?

If I said I talked Bhagavan (in Hinddusim its the one and only (formless) supreme aspect of God.), whould you not say the same thing to me?

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Of course that's what happened, but why did they give us the money?

It was probably a frend your parents. and before you say "but he didn't tell any one" you don;t allways have to tell some one somthing for them to know.

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Odd, I don't think of myself as a crusader or suicide bomber or murderer... Would this qualify as flaming? You are referring to people who don't doubt the wrong things (including the crusaders, as I don't hold with catholicisim)

I'm referring to what believing something without doubt leads to.

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Only then can you doubt and mistrust the greater truths in life. What 'greater truths' have you found by doubting everything?

If you believe something with out doubt, and that thing is wrong (in 1 or both meanings of the word), you will never figure out that it is wrong and you will never move past it. you can not figure out what is right with out knowing what is wrong. People are imperfect and can be wrong, that is why you always should have doubt and question every thing.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
Quote:
You couldn't give us some of that evidence could you?

Images of galaxy's billions of light years away (and cause the light travels as a set speed, billions of years in the past), the doppler effect which combined with the images of galaxy billions of light years away prove that the universe is expanding and has been since the beginning, images of distant galaxy's in the proses of forming, images of distant starts and soler systems forming all taken by powerful telescopes.
Which proves that God didn't make the earth, gravity did.
And what created gravity?
The Conspirator wrote:

Fossilised skeletons of ancient creatures no linger exist, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature that is similar to the previous one I mentioned but with distinct defences and dated to have existed after the first, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature like the second but with some similarity's to a moder creature and dated to after the second, fossilised skeleton a an ancient creature similar to the last except much more like a modern creature and dated to have existed after the last, the moder creature, you and me.
Now, an all-powerful God couldn't have possibly created the universe complete with fossils and light already on it's way to Earth now could He?
The Conspirator wrote:

Proving we and every other creture on earth evolved with out the help of God.
And how exactly does that prove God didn't help?
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
How'd you know I don't believe that!?

Judging by what you have said and statistics you are most likely Christan. And mostly the book is complete crap.
We finaly agree on something! The DaVinci code is complete crap.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Why should I see I psychiatrist about that? Is it because you deny the possibility that one can commune with God out of hand?

If I said I talked Bhagavan (in Hinddusim its the one and only (formless) supreme aspect of God.), whould you not say the same thing to me?
I'd say you were probably talking to a demon, and should be carefull
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Of course that's what happened, but why did they give us the money?

It was probably a frend your parents. and before you say "but he didn't tell any one" you don;t allways have to tell some one somthing for them to know.
I'll admit, that's the weak point of that story, as it hinges on my trust of my father. I can see you don't quite believe in that kind of trust.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
Odd, I don't think of myself as a crusader or suicide bomber or murderer... Would this qualify as flaming? You are referring to people who don't doubt the wrong things (including the crusaders, as I don't hold with catholicisim)

I'm referring to what believing something without doubt leads to.
And I'm saying that that's what believing the wrong thing without doubt leads to.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Only then can you doubt and mistrust the greater truths in life. What 'greater truths' have you found by doubting everything?

If you believe something with out doubt, and that thing is wrong (in 1 or both meanings of the word), you will never figure out that it is wrong and you will never move past it. you can not figure out what is right with out knowing what is wrong. People are imperfect and can be wrong, that is why you always should have doubt and question every thing.

But that leaves you in the end, unable to trust the right thing. You'll always be looking for some way to disprove it.
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
And what created gravity?

Madder and energy, quantum physics says all forces are transmitted by particles. gravity is a force.
But you going to say "But where did matter come from?" To that I say, Who was Ceaser grate, great, grate grand father? You don't know? Than it must have been God. Hey its he same logic you theists use, We don't know what caused the bog bang so God did it. Same non-logic.

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Now, an all-powerful God couldn't have possibly created the universe complete with fossils and light already on it's way to Earth now could He?

If one did, I'd say he doesn't wont us to know about him so you god isn't him cause he wonts you to believe in him.

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And how exactly does that prove God didn't help?

Cause there is no evidence of it, if God helped, there would be.
And if you won't to say "He didn't wont to leave any" see my point above.

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I'd say you were probably talking to a demon, and should be carefull

Oh a demon, you wouldn't think I need help cause I'm talking to a creature that doesn't exist.

Quote:
I'll admit, that's the weak point of that story, as it hinges on my trust of my father. I can see you don't quite believe in that kind of trust.

I didn't say he lied to you. Think about it this way, say you had a friend who was in financial trouble, but he wouldn't admit it (but you could tell) and he wouldn't except you money when you tried to give him some (a person too ashamed to admit he has financial problem would be too pride full to except charity from some one else). You wont to help him but he won't let you. How do you help him?

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And I'm saying that that's what believing the wrong thing without doubt leads to.

How can they know what there believing is wrong if they don't have doubt? How can you know that what you believe is right if you don't have doubt?

Quote:
But that leaves you in the end, unable to trust the right thing. You'll always be looking for some way to disprove it.

You know you can believe and have doubt at the same time.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
And what created gravity?

Madder and energy, quantum physics says all forces are transmitted by particles. gravity is a force.
But you going to say "But where did matter come from?" To that I say, Who was Ceaser grate, great, grate grand father? You don't know? Than it must have been God. Hey its he same logic you theists use, We don't know what caused the bog bang so God did it. Same non-logic.

It's the simple process of elimination: who made the big bang if God didn't? And about the Ceaser thing, that would just trace eventualy back to the first two, and you can guess where I beleive they came from.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
Now, an all-powerful God couldn't have possibly created the universe complete with fossils and light already on it's way to Earth now could He?

If one did, I'd say he doesn't wont us to know about him so you god isn't him cause he wonts you to believe in him.

Since when is this thread about my God in particular? I'm stating that there is some god.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
And how exactly does that prove God didn't help?

Cause there is no evidence of it, if God helped, there would be.
And if you won't to say "He didn't wont to leave any" see my point above.
God's ways are not our ways, and no man can know the mind of God. If He has hidden the evidence that he created the universe, He must have a good reason to.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
I'd say you were probably talking to a demon, and should be carefull

Oh a demon, you wouldn't think I need help cause I'm talking to a creature that doesn't exist.
That's a possibility, but it's the least dangerous possibility. If you know someone has either cancer or a cold, which do you tell him he has?
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
I'll admit, that's the weak point of that story, as it hinges on my trust of my father. I can see you don't quite believe in that kind of trust.

I didn't say he lied to you. Think about it this way, say you had a friend who was in financial trouble, but he wouldn't admit it (but you could tell) and he wouldn't except you money when you tried to give him some (a person too ashamed to admit he has financial problem would be too pride full to except charity from some one else). You wont to help him but he won't let you. How do you help him?
I suppose you could put it that way, but I didn't know about it until I was told.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
And I'm saying that that's what believing the wrong thing without doubt leads to.

How can they know what there believing is wrong if they don't have doubt?
They can't and more's the shame.
The Conspirator wrote:
How can you know that what you believe is right if you don't have doubt?
I've methodicly eliminated all my doubts, thereby assuring myself.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
But that leaves you in the end, unable to trust the right thing. You'll always be looking for some way to disprove it.

You know you can believe and have doubt at the same time.

Not in something as important as where you'll spend eternity.
UlrikeSE
"I say the sky is blue."
"But I disagree, it's not really blue."
"Heres evidence to why your wrong."
"Heres evidence to why your wrong."

And as the world turned, a billion things happened for a billion reasons...
freecitizen
I believe you make your own miracles. And I believe in life being unpredictible -- sometimes in a good way (miracle?) and sometimes in a bad way.

I don't believe in "divine" miracles -- from any Gods or Goddesses or other any "higher" power.

And if there was a higher power making miracles all over the place, then they sure as hell forgot all about me. haha. Meanie. It's okay, I don't believe in you anyway.

I believe in me and you and us.
The Conspirator
[code="UlrikeSE"]It's the simple process of elimination: who made the big bang if God didn't? And about the Ceaser thing, that would just trace eventualy back to the first two, and you can guess where I beleive they came from.[/code]
No one. How did it happen? I don't know. But I don't assume God did, just cause something happens doesn't mean some one caused it. stars have exploded but no one was responsible, it was a natural reaction to the large enough star running out of fuel.

Quote:
Since when is this thread about my God in particular? I'm stating that there is some god.

You missed my point. If such a God existed, no one would know of it and the God and gods people believe in would all be myths and wouldn't have cause any miracles.

Quote:
God's ways are not our ways, and no man can know the mind of God. If He has hidden the evidence that he created the universe, He must have a good reason to.

"God works in mysterious ways" The common excuse for any problem in a doctrine of belief. And thats all it is, and excuse.

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That's a possibility, but it's the least dangerous possibility. If you know someone has either cancer or a cold, which do you tell him he has?

My pint was obvious.

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I've methodicly eliminated all my doubts, thereby assuring myself.

Wow, you missed my pint by a thousand miles.
With out doubt you can not know if your belefe are wrong or right.

Quote:
Not in something as important as where you'll spend eternity.

Yes, that what you should have the most doubt in. Cause you could be very wrong and if you are, you would have to live with it for ever (or until you reborn or what ever)
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
[code="UlrikeSE"
That was my quote. You know, you can use the handy little 'quote' button at the top of my posts, right?
The Conspirator wrote:
]It's the simple process of elimination: who made the big bang if God didn't? And about the Ceaser thing, that would just trace eventualy back to the first two, and you can guess where I beleive they came from.[/code]
No one. How did it happen? I don't know. But I don't assume God did, just cause something happens doesn't mean some one caused it. stars have exploded but no one was responsible, it was a natural reaction to the large enough star running out of fuel.
Since you seem to be missing the point, I'll make it simple for you. How did it (the big bang or whatever caused it, for the sake of the following question) get there if not by God? You don't know? Then lets go with the most plausable theory.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Since when is this thread about my God in particular? I'm stating that there is some god.

You missed my point. If such a God existed, no one would know of it and the God and gods people believe in would all be myths and wouldn't have cause any miracles.
I suppose that berating you about how the scripture is divinely inspired would be useless.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
God's ways are not our ways, and no man can know the mind of God. If He has hidden the evidence that he created the universe, He must have a good reason to.

"God works in mysterious ways" The common excuse for any problem in a doctrine of belief. And thats all it is, and excuse.
It does make a nice excuse for when we don't understand God's mind, but it's also true, and therefore a very good and valid excuse.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
That's a possibility, but it's the least dangerous possibility. If you know someone has either cancer or a cold, which do you tell him he has?

My pint was obvious.
My point here, just in case you're missing it, is that I would place more value on a sound soul than a sound mind.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
I've methodicly eliminated all my doubts, thereby assuring myself.

Wow, you missed my pint by a thousand miles.
With out doubt you can not know if your belefe are wrong or right.
Thank you, you're doing pretty well at missing points too, I might add.
The Conspirator wrote:

Quote:
Not in something as important as where you'll spend eternity.

Yes, that what you should have the most doubt in. Cause you could be very wrong and if you are, you would have to live with it for ever (or until you reborn or what ever)

I had the most doubt in that, but I do no longer perhaps you missed my previous point to that one.

UlrikeSE wrote:
"I say the sky is blue."
"But I disagree, it's not really blue."
"Heres evidence to why your wrong."
"Heres evidence to why your wrong."

And as the world turned, a billion things happened for a billion reasons...

I think we're boring the other frihosters...
The Conspirator
ocalhoun wrote:
Since you seem to be missing the point, I'll make it simple for you. How did it (the big bang or whatever caused it, for the sake of the following question) get there if not by God? You don't know? Then lets go with the most plausable theory.

Just cause we don't know, dosen't mean god is responable. This is somthing you not getting.We dont't know but but out of allot theorys god is the least plosable
There are many theory's and all bit God has science and evidence behind it or a plausible theory (such a M-theory). The only things God has is people who wont God to be real. Now I wont there to be life after death but I don't believe in life after death but that wont will not make me point to this and that to try and prove one exists. I look at it reasonable an logically and not let my wonts blind me to the facts. There is no go, there is no after life and the lack of knowledge on what cause the big band is not evidence of a divine source.

Quote:
I suppose that berating you about how the scripture is divinely inspired would be useless.

You assume its divinely inspired but Muslim assume that the Qu;on is divinely inspired as do people of other religions assume that there holy books are divinely inspired. So if there all wrong, you have t take into consideration that your wrong.

Quote:
It does make a nice excuse for when we don't understand God's mind, but it's also true, and therefore a very good and valid excuse.

Yes it dose and it is far from valid. It is an excuse nothing more.

Quote:
My point here, just in case you're missing it, is that I would place more value on a sound soul than a sound mind.

Your statement depends on the existence of a soul, which is an assumption. Facts are people talk to things in there head and things that are not real. That is a fact not an assumption. So I and and you should say "You should talk to a psychiatrist about that."

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I've methodicly eliminated all my doubts, thereby assuring myself.

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Thank you, you're doing pretty well at missing points too, I might add.

You removed you doubts, That dose not assure you, that blinds you.

Quote:
I had the most doubt in that, but I do no longer perhaps you missed my previous point to that one.

Than you doubt again cause if your wrong you could pay for it for the rest of time.
CompactHaven
The Conspirator wrote:
This thread is ridiculous, every thing stated here has real world explanations. The and the worse part is that you all assume its the Christan god that did any of this. If you assume divine origin than you must take in to account all the religions of the world. Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman are just as likely to be the source.


If they prayed to Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman and the tumor was healed, I'd get your point.
CompactHaven
I am a Christian, but if I don't post a reply to something The Conspirator says, that means I agree with it.

ocalhoun wrote:
How did it (the big bang or whatever caused it, for the sake of the following question) get there if not by God? You don't know? Then lets go with the most plausable theory.


The Conspirator wrote:
Just cause we don't know, dosen't mean god is responable. This is somthing you not getting.We dont't know but but out of allot theorys god is the least plosable
There are many theory's and all bit God has science and evidence behind it or a plausible theory (such a M-theory). The only things God has is people who wont God to be real. Now I wont there to be life after death but I don't believe in life after death but that wont will not make me point to this and that to try and prove one exists. I look at it reasonable an logically and not let my wonts blind me to the facts. There is no go, there is no after life and the lack of knowledge on what cause the big band is not evidence of a divine source.


Cospirator, please proof read your posts before posting.
Something cannot come from nothing. Something had to start thigs off. Comets, planets, space itself had to be created because it could not have just come from nothing.
Whether it was the Christian God or not is up to you. Perhaps it was 'Magic' But something had to create science and something had to create the first elements.


Quote:
It does make a nice excuse for when we don't understand God's mind, but it's also true, and therefore a very good and valid excuse.

The Conspirator wrote:
Yes it dose and it is far from valid. It is an excuse nothing more.

Conspirator, what is your excuse for what you believe?

Quote:
My point here, just in case you're missing it, is that I would place more value on a sound soul than a sound mind.

The Conspirator wrote:
Your statement depends on the existence of a soul, which is an assumption. Facts are people talk to things in there head and things that are not real. That is a fact not an assumption. So I and and you should say "You should talk to a psychiatrist about that."

Saying that soals aren't real doesn't prove anything to Christians like me. To debate with people, you have to think like they do.

Quote:
I've methodicly eliminated all my doubts, thereby assuring myself.

Quote:
Thank you, you're doing pretty well at missing points too, I might add.

The Conspirator wrote:
You removed you doubts, That dose not assure you, that blinds you.

You're only blind if you remove your doubts by IGNORING them.


Quote:
I had the most doubt in that, but I do no longer perhaps you missed my previous point to that one.

Than you doubt again cause if your wrong you could pay for it for the rest of time.[/quote]
I don't know who said what in the above exchange. Plus, the grammar is so poor I cannot understand it.
The Conspirator
CompactHaven wrote:
If they prayed to Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman and the tumor was healed, I'd get your point.

People who have prayed to them have had "miracles" in there life. Just cause they prayed to your god doesn't make it any more legitimate than if they prayed to Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman and got the "miracles." You need to question them all equally.

Quote:
Cospirator, please proof read your posts before posting.

So your reaching into the bottom of an empty bag to find an argument.

Quote:
Something cannot come from nothing. Something had to start thigs off. Comets, planets, space itself had to be created because it could not have just come from nothing.
Whether it was the Christian God or not is up to you. Perhaps it was 'Magic' But something had to create science and something had to create the first elements.

Your right, something can not come from nothing. But just cause we don;t have the answor dosen't mean you should assume some god did it. The answor is not God, its we don't know. You don't know, I donlt know, no one knows. So just say "I don't know" insted of "God did it"
Humans made scince.

Quote:
Conspirator, what is your excuse for what you believe?

I don't have an excuse. I don't make excuses.
If you won't to know how I came to my beliefs. I looked at the facts,evidence and history. The fact is storms, lightening, earthquakes, plagues and allot of other things were once thought to have been caused and controlled by God or gods (its not there fault, thats all they had to go on). We now know that there are natural causes to all these and we know what those causes are. So learning from the mistakes of the past and I don't assume any magical, divine or supernatural cases for anything. If I don't have an answer, I simply say "I don't know."

Quote:
Saying that soals aren't real doesn't prove anything to Christians like me. To debate with people, you have to think like they do.

My point was, that he's basing his statement on something that has no evidence of its existence. There is no evidence for the existence of a soul in any one.

Quote:
You're only blind if you remove your doubts by IGNORING them.

With out doubt you are blind, you can not see when you are wrong cause you never question it. You need doubt to see, to see when you are wrong and to see when you are right.
snjripp
It is a miracle that I am breathing, that we have been given the gift of life, and that we are free in that life.
The Conspirator
snjripp wrote:
It is a miracle that I am breathing, that we have been given the gift of life

How is that miracle? How is life a gift?
There are over 7 billion people and countless more living creatures on earth.
A miracle is something that happened that can not be explained and is assumed to be of divine or spiritual origin.
The odds of wining a 5 number lottery with number between 1 and 39 is 1 in 3518743761 but if over 3518743761 lottery tickets are played each week 1 or more ticket will win each week. If you buy one, the odds are clearly against you but if enough people buy one, the odd of you winning is are still the same but the odds of some one winning increases. So if you win, it is by no means a miracle, its just the law of averages.
I know your thinking, "whats your point?"
There are billions of people and countless living organisms on earth. Being alive is by no means a miracle.
As for free, just cause you hit the lottery doesn't make it a miracle.[/code][/quote]
CompactHaven
The Conspirator wrote:

People who have prayed to them have had "miracles" in there life. Just cause they prayed to your god doesn't make it any more legitimate than if they prayed to Zeus, Benzaiten and Brahman and got the "miracles." You need to question them all equally.

I see your point, but we're talking about a tumor that dissapeared in days. I can see 'little' things people assume are miracles happening with other Gods, or even my God, but this seems like it could hold some marit.

Quote:
Cospirator, please proof read your posts before posting.

The Conspirator wrote:
So your reaching into the bottom of an empty bag to find an argument.

No. Your typos made it difficult to read and you know I had plenty of arguments.

The Conspirator wrote:
Your right, something can not come from nothing. But just cause we don;t have the answor dosen't mean you should assume some god did it. The answor is not God, its we don't know. You don't know, I donlt know, no one knows. So just say "I don't know" insted of "God did it"

We'll just have to disagree.

The Conspirator wrote:
Humans made scince.

Well, humans made the idea of science, but the elements of science were around before humans. Much like humans 'made' time.

The Conspirator wrote:
If I don't have an answer, I simply say "I don't know."

Are you agnostic, or athiest?

The Conspirator wrote:
My point was, that he's basing his statement on something that has no evidence of its existence. There is no evidence for the existence of a soul in any one.

You've just never seen it. Then again, neither have I.

The Conspirator wrote:
With out doubt you are blind, you can not see when you are wrong cause you never question it. You need doubt to see, to see when you are wrong and to see when you are right.

Yeah yeah, I've heard that 'philosophical' argument. That's why it's called a leap of faith.
The Conspirator
CompactHaven wrote:
I see your point, but we're talking about a tumor that dissapeared in days. I can see 'little' things people assume are miracles happening with other Gods, or even my God, but this seems like it could hold some marit.

I'm not talking about little things, the same miracles happen in every religion, the same "spontaneous healing" the same type of "vision's" the same "miracles" in all relines.

Quote:
No. Your typos made it difficult to read and you know I had plenty of arguments.

No. I've debated with theists in the past and every time they are loosing, they reach for the same thing, they criticize my spelling and grammar.

Quote:
Well, humans made the idea of science, but the elements of science were around before humans. Much like humans 'made' time.

No humans made science. The scientific method and practises were all invented by humans. What makes science, a science was thought up by humans.

Quote:
Are you agnostic, or athiest?

Almost every things that has been attributed to some god or another have all been explained and proved to be natural phenomenons and have no divine source, for what hasn't, we have theory's. Having taken all this into account, I conclude that Go and all other gods are nothing more than myths and lies.
So, atheist and areligious.

Quote:
You've just never seen it. Then again, neither have I.

Contrary to what many people like to believe, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
ocalhoun
The Conspirator wrote:
CompactHaven wrote:
I see your point, but we're talking about a tumor that dissapeared in days. I can see 'little' things people assume are miracles happening with other Gods, or even my God, but this seems like it could hold some marit.

I'm not talking about little things, the same miracles happen in every religion, the same "spontaneous healing" the same type of "vision's" the same "miracles" in all relines.
Do they really? I havn't seen any posts in this thread about other god's miracles, even though I know that frihost constitutes many religeons. Care to provide some examples, Mr 'I want evidence!'?
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
No. Your typos made it difficult to read and you know I had plenty of arguments.

No. I've debated with theists in the past and every time they are loosing, they reach for the same thing, they criticize my spelling and grammar.
In almost every post I have been restraining myself from critiqing your spelling and grammar, but I do agree, they're terrible. I would, however, feel the same way no matter what you were posting about.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
Well, humans made the idea of science, but the elements of science were around before humans. Much like humans 'made' time.

No humans made science. The scientific method and practises were all invented by humans. What makes science, a science was thought up by humans.
Yes, humans made science. And God made humans. Really, I don't see how who created science has any bearing upon this.
The Conspirator wrote:


Quote:
You've just never seen it. Then again, neither have I.

Contrary to what many people like to believe, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Very well, now let's apply that to your assertion that there is a scientific explanation of where the very first matter and energy came from.
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